Why does Chroma even need a rework?

[(PSN)Khrysamere]

He's a spectacular frame, pretty strong and tanky. It's not like he's underpowered, underused, and/or disliked. If they made his First Ability more useful I guess that would be nice.

In the patch notes of the most recent update, they said that they used "Less-than-ideal" Calculation methods to create scorn and furry's effects. Now if they are just going to update the calculation methods and keep the strength of Vex Armor the way it is, then that's fine. However seeing how they said "you probably know the power maximizing this ability brings" right after this leads me to think that how strong Vex Armor is is due to these Less-than-ideal Calculation methods, and if they fix those calculation methods then technically wouldn't Vex Armor be getting Nerfed?

Now, I hope I'm completely wrong on this, because I love Vex Armor and don't think it needs to be changed for the worse. But if it is getting nerfed..You know I don't even want to think about it, he's one of my most favorite frames, he doesn't deserve that.

[StinkyPygmy]

Cool ya jets, they're just tweaking the calculation method a bit because Vex armor has the potential to be really wonky. It can be less than helpful all the way up to absurdly powerful due to said calculations. Nothing wrong with stabilising things a bit. It's more of a bug fix then anything.

[AdunSaveMe]

He isn't getting a rework. Literally all they said is that they're going to revisit the abilities to fix the calculation methods.

[AlphaPHENIX]

Some people want red lightning, or blue fire or not yellow/green toxin. So long the passive is reworked to let us have that I am not asking for anything else.

 

PS: Actually forget about red lightning, I want white lightning...for obvious reasons.

Spoiler

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by AlphaPHENIX

[Airwolfen]

Due to the work needed to fully re-code his skills so the bug from a while ago does not happen again he got a rework spot. Maybe a basic function will change somewhat (personally hope for a better 1 skill) but the overall kit is not planned to change.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Airwolfen

[Blood_Poppy]

I just want Vex armor recalculated and make Elemental Ward & Vex Armor Toggle-able like Oberon Renewal.

[RobWasHere]

Spectral Scream to be usefull?

[Twistedsparkle]

his first is literally useless
also not one but two duration based abilities.. personally I think these abilities should be combined into one since they are so similar but thats just me
also why does my turret coat ulti fly but I cant? I just wanna be a badass dragon (even midair float would be enough gee)
also why cant the turret move and hold positions like syndicate allies and specters?

also ice element is just universally better than the other elements shouldnt DE atleast balance that

one more thing I think either giving him a toggle buff or increasing his base duration would really help so you wouldnt need narrow minded so badly
and you could retain your range but still keep your buffs more than 40seconds if you would prefer that

[Genitive]

Because he's boring. Sure, he is a very powerful frame, but his kit contains 2 passive auras, a useless 1st, and a very situational 4th. I would like to see more interactivity. Being able to switch elements in missions would help to make him much more interesting. Not to mention Spectral Scream that desperately needs a rework, and only half of elements being actually useful.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

15 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Because he's boring. Sure, he is a very powerful frame, but his kit contains 2 passive auras, a useless 1st, and a very situational 4th. I would like to see more interactivity. Being able to switch elements in missions would help to make him much more interesting. Not to mention Spectral Scream that desperately needs a rework, and only half of elements being actually useful.

^This. If a Warframe has two useless abilities, it should be pretty clear it needs a rework. I propose making Elemental Ward's range tied to Affinity Radius and is unaffected by range mods. This would make him a much better support

Edited June 7, 2017 by (PS4)LoisGordils

[THeMooN85]

1st definitely need rework. Elemental change would be the best choice here. Eventually DMG increase like a lot plus elemental change while press&hold

2nd shouldn't be affected by range and need to be toggled (with low energy drain)

3rd need better calculation (decreasing DMG I'm looking at you) and need to be toggled (with low energy drain)

4th need energy drain decrease, range and strength increase and one more special thing... press X to stay/follow

Passive: build RAGE mod. Chroma need energy... like a lot!

[(PSN)Khrysamere]

5 hours ago, Genitive said:

Because he's boring. Sure, he is a very powerful frame, but his kit contains 2 passive auras, a useless 1st, and a very situational 4th. I would like to see more interactivity. Being able to switch elements in missions would help to make him much more interesting. Not to mention Spectral Scream that desperately needs a rework, and only half of elements being actually useful.

People like simplicity, it's the reason why a lot of people prefer to use "Press-#-to-Win-Frames" of course that's subjective and that may not be a playstyle that you like, but you can't deny that it is a playstyle that many people like. In fact, it's common-practice for people to build their frames around only using 1 or 2 abilities of their frame, even if the other 2 or 3 are just as good or better in different ways.

Look at Saryn, I never used her before her rework, but from what I read about her she had a "Press-4-to-Win-Ability", but when they reworked her and made her a bit more complex, a lot of people stopped using her because the people that liked her playstyle before didn't feel like learning a new one, and her complexity intimidated new players from picking her up. 

You may find him boring, but everyone else I've spoken to find's him extremely fun to play. Besides wouldn't you guys prefer a frame with 2 extremely good abilities, rather than 4 "decent' abilities? Because that's probably what's going to happen. (Even though his 4th does have a lot of uses right now, Credit Farming anyone? And it's pretty good for interception)

 

And for the record, I think I'm a bit entitled to be a bit mad, I've only had Chroma for a little over a month. 3 Weeks of that time was spent just building him, spent like a week just making the frame itself because of those horrible Saryn Systems, then having to do a TON of vault runs to get mods that maximize Vex Armor and Elemental Ward, waiting for a Gold Potato Alert to pop up, Having to Forma him like 4 Times (Once every day for 4 days) and leveling him without Affinity Boosters, and then having to spend a week getting and leveling up Zenurik for Energy Overflow. I worked hard for Chroma's power, but I guess that doesn't matter to DE right?

Edited June 7, 2017 by (PS4)Khrysamere

[Genitive]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)Khrysamere said:

You may find him boring, but everyone else I've spoken to find's him extremely fun to play. Besides wouldn't you guys prefer a frame with 2 extremely good abilities, rather than 4 "decent' abilities? Because that's probably what's going to happen. (Even though his 4th does have a lot of uses right now, Credit Farming anyone? And it's pretty good for interception)

I also like Chroma, but that doesn't change the fact that most of his abilities don't really do that much. Indeed, he has 2 very powerful abilities (or 1,5 because toxin and electricity are subpar compared to the other elements), but that doesn't mean he doesn't need any improvement. Besides, with the current setup there is only one way to build him effectively. And he doesn't have a real passive.

[BattledOne]

If his Wex and Warcry take a 25% or even 50% nerf hit (honestly the combo will still be ridiculously strong anyway) but Effigy becomes something more than a niche cred farm multiplier, I'm in. Don't get me wrong, I love chroma, he's my most played frame, he's the reason I grinded my soul away for Arcanes, all to push his potential for longer and longer solo survivals. But after I returned from my burn-out, I kind of avoid him. At the end of the day the 2 buff combo is just making your frame unkillable and upping your weapon damage trough the wazoo. That's not very unique...  

If effigy is remade into something that can at the very least follow you and draw fire, it'd make for some options on how to build him. Like have it merge with your sentinel and use it's AI and mods.

Breath 1 I'm not even gonna mention, no way DE is going to. change it much, if at all. Unless they give it insane damage potential or replace with a new skill altogether, it's a dead skill.

[(PSN)Khrysamere]

26 minutes ago, BattledOne said:

If his Wex and Warcry take a 25% or even 50% nerf hit (honestly the combo will still be ridiculously strong anyway) but Effigy becomes something more than a niche cred farm multiplier, I'm in. Don't get me wrong, I love chroma, he's my most played frame, he's the reason I grinded my soul away for Arcanes, all to push his potential for longer and longer solo survivals. But after I returned from my burn-out, I kind of avoid him. At the end of the day the 2 buff combo is just making your frame unkillable and upping your weapon damage trough the wazoo. That's not very unique...  

If effigy is remade into something that can at the very least follow you and draw fire, it'd make for some options on how to build him. Like have it merge with your sentinel and use it's AI and mods.

Breath 1 I'm not even gonna mention, no way DE is going to. change it much, if at all. Unless they give it insane damage potential or replace with a new skill altogether, it's a dead skill.

Other Frames are unkillable in other ways, and I don't see people complaining about that. If you're running around invisible in most cases you aren't being hit at all, so almost complete damage avoidance is okay but being a Tank is boring?

Though I completely agree with what you said about his first skill, even if they made it a tiny bit better I still wouldn't waste my energy on it, the fact that you move so slow while it's active and building for it specifically negatively effects the usefulness of Elemental Ward and Vex Armor makes it not even worth it in my opinion, and that's what I'm worried about, I don't want 2 of the abilities I use the most with Chroma taking a hit so an ability I probably won't even use can be a little bit better.

Now a lot of people here think that Vex Armor and Elemental Ward should be Toggle-based, however I don't think they should. It would be best if they still had a timer on them but are recastable. The Problem with Toggle Abilities is that things like Energy Overflow or Energy Mats don't restore your energy while it's active, so having it toggle-based would hurt him more than be good, having it recastable would be 10x better.

Edited June 7, 2017 by (PS4)Khrysamere

[BattledOne]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Khrysamere said:

Other Frames are unkillable in other ways, and I don't see people complaining about that. If you're running around invisible in most cases you aren't being hit at all, so almost complete damage avoidance is okay but being a Tank is boring?

Though I completely agree with what you said about his first skill, even if they made it a tiny bit better I still wouldn't waste my energy on it, the fact that you move so slow while it's active and building for it specifically negatively effects the usefulness of Elemental Ward and Vex Armor makes it not even worth it in my opinion, and that's what I'm worried about, I don't want 2 of the abilities I use the most with Chroma taking a hit so an ability I probably won't even use can be a little bit better.

Now a lot of people here thing that Vex Armor and Elemental Ward should be Toggle-based, however I don't think they should. It would be best if they still had a timer on them but are recastable. The Problem with Toggle Abilities is that things like Energy Overflow or Energy Mats don't restore your energy while it's active, so having it toggle-based would hurt him more than be good, having it recastable would be 10x better.

Taking Naramon out of equation obviously. Other unkillable frames have something besides their unkillability. Valkyr gets a custom weapon/stance and can always force finishers, Rhino has thematic stomp/charge, Oberon has a lot going for him right now and etc. Point is self buffing frames have something else useful to add besides buffing themselves.  

I'm also not completely against making buff skills that you are just upkeep all the time anyway into channels. The band aid fix of energy restoration besides orbs not working when channeling is as outdated as Mag nerfs at this point. It's an arbitrary annoyance that's there to fight afk strats. It's the same as S#&$ty DRM, hampering legit user experience for the sake of skrewing with pirates for a day. Thing is pirate have better experience afterwards, just like all botters/afk strats evolve to go past this roadblock, but the roadblock stays there for the legit user. 

Anyway Ward def could be made a channel, but without the restore restriction. Like Equinox's Pacify. Vex relies on building up power from being damaged, so perhaps have that still be there but the buff gradually decays if you aren't damaged if it turns into a channel?

Edited June 7, 2017 by BattledOne

[(PSN)lhbuch]

The big question here is: When he gets his rework, will he have 4 good balanced powers or just his 2nd and 3rd ruined and a overall less powerful frame.

[(PSN)Khrysamere]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

The big question here is: When he gets his rework, will he have 4 good balanced powers or just his 2nd and 3rd ruined and a overall less powerful frame.

That's what I'm worried about... :(

[GrayArchon]

8 hours ago, Twistedsparkle said:

also why cant the turret move and hold positions like syndicate allies and specters?

 

7 hours ago, THeMooN85 said:

4th need energy drain decrease, range and strength increase and one more special thing... press X to stay/follow

The next set of augments will include an augment for Chroma's 4th that lets you move it to new locations.

[RahuHordika]

^ Yet another example of the great ol' bandaiding.

Seriously, out of all the augments this update I see Chroma's as the one that has no right being an augment.

[IfritKajiTora]

Chroma need reworks on his passive,1 and 4.
2 and 3 is fine.

1 status chance isn't that great, damage is garbage, making this ability totally useless
4 eats too much energy and grants -50% armor, which makes this ability not worth using. While other frames have abilities to Turn ON and forget without any downsides, like: Excalibur auto parry giving you damage reduction and insane exalted blade damage with blinding, sending waves dealing 4x damage.
Valkyr, immortality and insane melee damage with 50% base critical chance and insane damaging slide attack.

[THeMooN85]

50 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

The next set of augments will include an augment for Chroma's 4th that lets you move it to new locations.

Source?

nvm, found in update after wrote this.

Edited June 7, 2017 by THeMooN85

[WARLOCKE]

Simply. Spectral Scream and Effigy are terrible. Vex armor, while being a good power needs to also be on a toggle. Having to recast vex gives Chroma a hard cap on scaling. At some point (builds will vary) Chroma will be one shot outside of a full Vex armor stack. Furthermore, the run and hide to recast thing it has going on really hinders his intended role as a hard hitting tank. And now that we have invis on a toggle (ivara and in a way, Octavia) this is not to much to ask. 

 

Some background here. Chroma is a my second most used frame and I run him with two full arcane stacks (grace and guardian). In no build or at no time is effigy and spectral scream worth casting. Effigy debuffs you for piddling damage and utility in return.

[Sajochi]

 

I detailed a lot of changes to make Chroma consistent, one of which was the augment we got (happy coincedence). Chroma does need work, he has a binary play style because of two passive abilities, a useless first, and somewhat wonky fourth. If he is changed, it will come in tweaks, and we may have to sacrifice power in one area to greatly improve another. 

[(PSN)Khrysamere]

14 hours ago, Sajochi said:

 

I detailed a lot of changes to make Chroma consistent, one of which was the augment we got (happy coincedence). Chroma does need work, he has a binary play style because of two passive abilities, a useless first, and somewhat wonky fourth. If he is changed, it will come in tweaks, and we may have to sacrifice power in one area to greatly improve another. 

Unless they made his 1st some sort of Nuke-Like Ability or some sort of CC, I probably wouldn't ever use it even if it got buffed and I certainly don't want power from his 2nd and 3rd taken away so it can be given to an ability I don't plan on using. 

I'm going to be completely honest, I hope we are just reading way too much into this and making a bigger deal than what's actually going to happen, I.E. DE is only going to fix the calculations methods of Chroma's Vex Armor in a way that won't affect it's power.

Honestly I don't understand why people complain about the only good thing about Chroma is his buffs, I mean why is that a bad thing? It's his Niche, and other Warframes are similiar in different ways. Nova, Ember, Vauban, Quake Banshee, and Ect. are CC Frames. Trinity, Octavia, Oberon, and Ect are Support Frames. The List goes on, What's wrong with having a Frame that is Self-Buff Focused? 

BattledOne made a point in saying that other frames have other things besides their unkillability that makes them more interesting, but Chroma has other things too. Besides Unkillability he has amazing Damage Potential, and with Ice you can afflict surrounding enemies that shoot at you with Ice status, slowing them down. 

Now some people may complain that Building around Vex Armor and Ice Elemental Ward is the only thing that you can do with Chroma to make him effective, but does it really matter? If Vex Armor and Ice Elemental Ward was Nerfed to make his 1 and 4 slightly better but building around Vex Armor was still the best way to get the most out of Chroma then MOST people will still completely ignore his 1 and 4 and continue to build for his 2 and 3 EVEN if building around his 1 and 4 was slightly more viable.

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by (PS4)Khrysamere