Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

Arm spikes though?

[SprinKah]

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)AntiCaesar said:

Arm spikes though?

arm wishbones

[Xaero]

On 27.07.2017 at 8:32 PM, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

even on china it was limited to founders . the fact remains in no shape or form will we get the excalibur prime or his benefits aka the prime passive  in global on an excal and  should remain the case, founders received it for their help making this game even possible.

On 28.07.2017 at 8:15 AM, Ksaero said:

Um, what does it have to do with what I said?

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

natah, tsd, , tww , kinda logical for them to get poe then sacrifice at some point. and as its a quest reward and since excalibur umbra =/= excalibur umbra prime its a probable outcome, as excal umbra is technically not excal umbra prime

By "Excalibur Prime" you meant Excalibur Umbra Prime? It looks confusing.

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

harrows quest drops harrows bp, which you can grind for the parts ,  as the contract states it cannot drop in game , specifically under regular content and market , means it can either drop from a new system of obtainment not covered in contract , or its a quest reward , which is one that pretty far into the game content wise , you have to be MR 5> to do right?

I'm not saying Excal Umbra BP will be given as quest reward. I'm saying that while we receive Sacrifice quest and Excalibur Umbra, Chinese non-founders might receive just the quest, but without the frame.

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

we dont know if EU will have the same stats or even if it keeps same animations as any excalibur , or even if all powers match up , or ??? , kinda the whole problem with it as the umbra stuffs a mystery still 

also mechanically if umbras are to alter game dynamics as it was talked  on having,a EUP and a EU in a squad would bring different conditions to play , then even if they "look" the same the play and content for each is different , thus gameplay wouldnt be identical with these two variations together in match 

yes its still available , http://activity2.changyou.com/wf/pay/founder.jsp but star armor is not equivalent to warframe on every level, think funhouse mirror , it has plenty of variance in stats and mechanics to ours ,their wukong for instance is ..  his 4 is a bit broken compared to ours ..its fun

Yeah, but having two visually identical warframes with different mechanics in the same game version is weird even for Chinaframe. Imagine if there was no Excalibur's rework in 2015, but the global version received Excalibur Prime 2 that looks identical to Excalibur Prime but has the stats and abilities of reworked Excalibur.

If Excalibur Umbra on global build will really have some new mechanic, IMO it'd be logical to change Excalibur Umbra Prime accordingly and keep it the only warframe with "Excalibur Umbra" in the name. Any Chinese player, if he/she haven't bought Originator pack yet but wants to experience Umbra can buy the pack which doesn't have a time limit.

[Vlada91]

Comon players this is only speculation and conjecture, as all of you get tired of all the same thing, now that you know for certain that the umbra is coming. Relax the brain and enjoy in free time. I m big fun of umbra but with speculation all of this is going to the dead end and it never stops....

[EpicBred]

I know, another umbra thread. I saw some people talking about their ideas for the thing that seperates the standards and primes from the umbras, but those werent really that interesting and special to me.

This is why I want to share my idea through this thread, and hear what people think about it and come up with themselves.

So, as a general direction I wanted to make them more powerful, but a lot harder to play (not more complicated).

The "umbra passive" would be a general energy drain, a noticable one! I was thinking 2 energy per second, maybe more (im bad with these numbers, these are placeholders to bring my idea across) and uneffected by effiency or duration (or anything else). You cant get energy back through energy orbs, but per enemy kill you regenerate maybe 5 or 10 (again, you probably know a better number).

The abilities of the frame should be similar to the original frame, so you still know who its the umbra version of, but still different. Like variations of the old ones.

I didnt have many good ideas for excalibur umbra, but for ash:

1st: You through one shuriken that bounces between a few enemies (not many, 3 - 5 maybe) and opens them up for finishers. Im not to proud of this one, but it would be really good with the augment 

2nd: Toggle. More of a smoke form than a smoke bomb. While in this smoke form, the energy drain doubles, and you arent invisible or invincible. But your movement speed increases and enemies need longer to become aware of you: when you activate the ability, the "awareness state" of all enemies is reset (for ash, awareness of team mates is uneffected) and they need 5 seconds to notice you again. This 5 second timer starts when you get in sight of an enemy. If you pass through enemies in smoke form (you dont collide with them, but there should be a visual effect to show that you just walked through that enemy) this timer is reset. Also, rolling should be replaced with something similar to a short distance teleport. With this teleport you can bypass projectiles and lasers. If you teleport through enemies their awareness timer will be reset as well.

3rd: a faster version of the standard teleport. I would like this to directly translate into a faster finisher animation (or do you think you should need the augment for this). When an enemy is killed this way (and you are in smoke form) an aoe smoke effect will reset the awareness timer of close enemies.

4th: Each time you press the button the enemy under your crosshair gets marked. The first mark is free, every additiinal ones cost energy (50 at base?). Each enemy can only be marked once. Now everything that happens to one of the marked enemies happens to all of them, including damage, cc effects, etc. If one of those enemies is killed by ash umbras 3, the aoe will trigger on all of them (since they will probably all die thanks to covert lethality).

Now all of these abilities still cost energy (effected by efficiency, just like normal frame abilities) except his 2, where the passive energy drain will just double. This is what i meant with more difficult (but not (much) more complicated). You will always be on your toes because you will always need to kill enemies to keep your energy up. I dont know if there should be something you can do once your energy runs out, but im not sure about that.

I thought about replacing the operator focus ability with a frame specific ultimate ability, if we need to somehow fully bond our operator to one frame to get the umbra frame. But since we dont know anything about the "sacrifice" and how the umbras fit lorewise, it is too vague to create an ability for that.

This one long thread... i hope some people take the time and read trough all of this :D

Tell me what you think!

 

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by EpicBred

[DarkRuler2500]

DE will probably have their own way of including the Umbra frames.

Me and clan mates thought of some kind of Corrupted Warframe with slightly alterered base abilities rather than just a passive energy drain. But since DE remains silent on the whole topic, why should we bother right now. I let myself being surprised when it comes. D:

[EpicBred]

2 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

Me and clan mates thought of some kind of Corrupted Warframe with slightly alterered base abilities rather than just a passive energy drain.

But I HAVE altered base abilities and not just a passive energy drain 

And because they are so silent about it theres a lot of room for speculation. And its fun to speculate

[-Ringed-Umbra-]

 

On 26/07/2017 at 2:38 PM, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

Aside from the scarf Excal Umbra looks kinda ehhhhhhhh too. Those crescent gold bits on his lower arm and elbows and on his helmet stick out too much to be aesthetically pleasing to normal people. 

scarf looks good, the crescent gold bits are just f*kin fine, let it be as it is lol.

[Corial]

30 minutes ago, Eminem37 said:

 

scarf looks good, the crescent gold bits are just f*kin fine, let it be as it is lol.

Lore based gold bits o^o

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

12 hours ago, Ksaero said:

By "Excalibur Prime" you meant Excalibur Umbra Prime? It looks confusing.

I'm not saying Excal Umbra BP will be given as quest reward. I'm saying that while we receive Sacrifice quest and Excalibur Umbra, Chinese non-founders might receive just the quest, but without the frame.

Yeah, but having two visually identical warframes with different mechanics in the same game version is weird even for Chinaframe. Imagine if there was no Excalibur's rework in 2015, but the global version received Excalibur Prime 2 that looks identical to Excalibur Prime but has the stats and abilities of reworked Excalibur.

If Excalibur Umbra on global build will really have some new mechanic, IMO it'd be logical to change Excalibur Umbra Prime accordingly and keep it the only warframe with "Excalibur Umbra" in the name. Any Chinese player, if he/she haven't bought Originator pack yet but wants to experience Umbra can buy the pack which doesn't have a time limit.

pretty straight forward

 umbras frames have been in dev for 2 years now, id be shocked if another one isnt at least started ,its possible they just get another umbra warframe instead , or have a different quest. wont know till time comes , they are even further behind then console xD 

even if its confusing, sadly its not unprecedented in game industry

its possible eup will be changed to match. or they wont do anything. chinaframes  always been different in how it delivers content ...

though i can find the  quests i cant find mention of the campaign plot we have , so maybe they wont get sacrifice at all 

http://wf.changyou.com/main.shtml

 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

4 hours ago, Eminem37 said:

 

scarf looks good, the crescent gold bits are just f*kin fine, let it be as it is lol.

 quoted the wrong person ^  id suggest clicking the arrow to grab the real quote 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

12 hours ago, Vlada91 said:

Comon players this is only speculation and conjecture, as all of you get tired of all the same thing, now that you know for certain that the umbra is coming. Relax the brain and enjoy in free time. I m big fun of umbra but with speculation all of this is going to the dead end and it never stops....

kinda the point of a speculation thread , more talk on the discord honestly  

the op even states this is conjecture and discussion not fact , if others wont read the warnings not much i can do 

as sacrifice and poe are fast approaching its only natural people want to discuss their theories [even if it gets repeatative] 

  herald the coming of  the shadow of shadows , its approach is soon   

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

15 hours ago, SprinKah said:

arm wishbones

Shadow has the wrong ones though

[-Ringed-Umbra-]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

 quoted the wrong person ^  id suggest clicking the arrow to grab the real quote 

Ye I forgot to fix it lol, nvm by now.

Did you watch the last devstream? that thing they wanted to reveal, what a troll.

they know how bad people want umbra, Nice troll DE.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Eminem37

[Corial]

21 minutes ago, Eminem37 said:

Ye I forgot to fix it lol, nvm by now.

Did you watch the last devstream? that thing they wanted to reveal, what a troll.

they know how bad people want umbra, Nice troll DE.

it was quality comedy from Top hat and Monocle 

[erasthmus]

so has anyone else noticed that the umbra "cryopod" is just a part of the lua extraction platform? umbra_cryopod

[Xaero]

9 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

though i can find the  quests i cant find mention of the campaign plot we have , so maybe they wont get sacrifice at all 

http://wf.changyou.com/main.shtml

The Second Dream:

The War Within:

Edited July 30, 2017 by Ksaero

[SprinKah]

9 hours ago, (Xbox One)AntiCaesar said:

Shadow has the wrong ones though

well, originally DE did use Excalibur Umbra's model for the Shadow Stalker, they must've chipped away the wishbone gold parts and such.

[Corial]

9 hours ago, Ksaero said:

The Second Dream:

The War Within:

I explored these yesterday before going to bed because I took interest on the seemly never ending accesses to warframes (including Umbra).

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

16 hours ago, Eminem37 said:

Ye I forgot to fix it lol, nvm by now.

Did you watch the last devstream? that thing they wanted to reveal, what a troll.

they know how bad people want umbra, Nice troll DE.

yeah monicale makes me laugh always

11 hours ago, erasthmus said:

so has anyone else noticed that the umbra "cryopod" is just a part of the lua extraction platform? umbra_cryopod

yes, we already did the comparison on discord a while back

10 hours ago, Ksaero said:

The Second Dream:

The War Within:

oh good i was having trouble finding it xD 

1 hour ago, Corial said:

I explored these yesterday before going to bed because I took interest on the seemly never ending accesses to warframes (including Umbra).

thats their founders excalibur umbra prime [read op FAQ section]

their accesses dont end as they have a limited user base, unlike global they cant really afford to keep it closed 

[Nazrethim]

Hello EpicBred!

On 29/7/2017 at 11:52 AM, EpicBred said:

So, as a general direction I wanted to make them more powerful, but a lot harder to play (not more complicated).

You already shoot yourself on t he foot, and I will explain why.

On 29/7/2017 at 11:52 AM, EpicBred said:

The "umbra passive" would be a general energy drain, a noticable one! I was thinking 2 energy per second, maybe more (im bad with these numbers, these are placeholders to bring my idea across) and uneffected by effiency or duration (or anything else). You cant get energy back through energy orbs, but per enemy kill you regenerate maybe 5 or 10 (again, you probably know a better number).

This would make Zenurik flat out mandatory, or pairing with a Trinity. So no. If anything, a better alternative would be that frame NOT being affected by Efficiency and Power Capacity at all, but making up for it by having a passive energy regen.

On 29/7/2017 at 11:52 AM, EpicBred said:

The abilities of the frame should be similar to the original frame, so you still know who its the umbra version of, but still different. Like variations of the old ones.

I didnt have many good ideas for excalibur umbra, but for ash:

1st: You through one shuriken that bounces between a few enemies (not many, 3 - 5 maybe) and opens them up for finishers. Im not to proud of this one, but it would be really good with the augment 

That's actually a good idea.

On 29/7/2017 at 11:52 AM, EpicBred said:

2nd: Toggle. More of a smoke form than a smoke bomb. While in this smoke form, the energy drain doubles, and you arent invisible or invincible. But your movement speed increases and enemies need longer to become aware of you: when you activate the ability, the "awareness state" of all enemies is reset (for ash, awareness of team mates is uneffected) and they need 5 seconds to notice you again. This 5 second timer starts when you get in sight of an enemy. If you pass through enemies in smoke form (you dont collide with them, but there should be a visual effect to show that you just walked through that enemy) this timer is reset. Also, rolling should be replaced with something similar to a short distance teleport. With this teleport you can bypass projectiles and lasers. If you teleport through enemies their awareness timer will be reset as well.

While the "rollin gets turned into teleport" is good, being a toggle ability that doesn't give invisibility is a huge downgrade. Enemy awareness in Warframe works in two ways: enemy doesn't know you are there and Enemy knows where you are, there are no middle ground (hence why alarms are BS for stealth play, as you can't break LoS because enemies always know where you are).

It also loses it's (frankly poor) short CC (that nigh useless stagger).

On 29/7/2017 at 11:52 AM, EpicBred said:

3rd: a faster version of the standard teleport. I would like this to directly translate into a faster finisher animation (or do you think you should need the augment for this). When an enemy is killed this way (and you are in smoke form) an aoe smoke effect will reset the awareness timer of close enemies.

Again, enemies have NO awareness timer. That's why if you use a projectile weapon with Punch Trough and kill two dudes you still lose the Stealth buff.

On 29/7/2017 at 11:52 AM, EpicBred said:

4th: Each time you press the button the enemy under your crosshair gets marked. The first mark is free, every additiinal ones cost energy (50 at base?). Each enemy can only be marked once. Now everything that happens to one of the marked enemies happens to all of them, including damage, cc effects, etc. If one of those enemies is killed by ash umbras 3, the aoe will trigger on all of them (since they will probably all die thanks to covert lethality).

First, the fact that BS drains PER mark is BS already, costing over 2 to 20 times more energy than the frame has capacity for. 50 at base means if you bladestorm 15 enemies (the ability is supposed to be used for killin large crowds) you can look up to 700 energy (14x50 as the first is free). Ash only has 150 at base. This pretty much would KILL build diversity, as you would be forced to max efficiency AND Zenurik for it, just like current sh*tty Bladestorm does.

The only way to keep BS as it works now, is to make it a 100 energy duration marking phase of about 6-10 during which you can mark as many as you please for No Additional Cost. Then press 4 again or wait for the timer to run out to unleash BS. AND the 2 clones assisting Ash not following him, so Ash can only do 1/3rd of the cutscenes instead of all of them.

On 29/7/2017 at 11:52 AM, EpicBred said:

Now all of these abilities still cost energy (effected by efficiency, just like normal frame abilities) except his 2, where the passive energy drain will just double. This is what i meant with more difficult (but not (much) more complicated). You will always be on your toes because you will always need to kill enemies to keep your energy up. I dont know if there should be something you can do once your energy runs out, but im not sure about that.

Yeah, and if you need it in a pinch because some #$&(% triggered an alarm during a stealth run you are scr*wed because you have no energy because, shockingly, you don't kill a lot when you do stealth play.

On 29/7/2017 at 11:52 AM, EpicBred said:

I thought about replacing the operator focus ability with a frame specific ultimate ability, if we need to somehow fully bond our operator to one frame to get the umbra frame. But since we dont know anything about the "sacrifice" and how the umbras fit lorewise, it is too vague to create an ability for that.

I like this.

 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

this is old news on the stalker umbra talk : / , megathread already contains multiple comparison images 

[EpicBred]

12 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

This would make Zenurik flat out mandatory, or pairing with a Trinity. So no. If anything, a better alternative would be that frame NOT being affected by Efficiency and Power Capacity at all, but making up for it by having a passive energy regen.

Now that you mention zenurik and trinity, I would say limit them (a cap for max energy regen so that it doesnt reverse the passive drain. And for trinity there would be a hard cap on how much energy umbra can get at once).

This is not a better alternative at all. First of all you can just max duration, strength and range or put on what ever else you want. Not having to worry about efficiency is just boring and too powerful.

Also the gameplay this demands/rewards is just waiting and not using abilities, until you have enough energy to do something. Zenurik would always be used as well. Trinity would just make it completely overpowered because you have no energy cap and can just keep spamming maxed (range/strength/duration) abilities.

13 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

While the "rollin gets turned into teleport" is good, being a toggle ability that doesn't give invisibility is a huge downgrade. Enemy awareness in Warframe works in two ways: enemy doesn't know you are there and Enemy knows where you are, there are no middle ground (hence why alarms are BS for stealth play, as you can't break LoS because enemies always know where you are).

It also loses it's (frankly poor) short CC (that nigh useless stagger

I know its a downgrade, but i wanted it to be more active, running around and making sure no one sees you. There is a middleground, which is "enemy is aware of you, but doesnt see you" (invisibility). I ll make a new ability description because I dont like how i described it in the first place and how the "awareness timer" gets received:

"When the ability is activated, enemies stop 'seeing' ash u. Now whenever ash u gets in line of sight of an enemy, this enemy (and maybe every enemy thats in a 5-10 meter radius around him) will be 'able to see' him in 5 seconds. During these 5 seconds (before they 'can see you') the enemy should be marked somehow so the player knows that he has to do something about him. Tgere should also be an indication for when this enemy is currently not on screen, like a red arrow at the side if your screen. If you pass through an enemy, he will be 'unable to see' you again - until you get in line of sight again (you are usually behind an enemy if he was looking at you and you walk through him)."

Im not sure of I should replace the "able to see you" part (marked with ') "aware of you"

And lets make every enemy you pass through stagger, because it will prevent them from turning around immediately AND will make you happy :D

This should also fix your problem with his 3.

13 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

First, the fact that BS drains PER mark is BS already

I feel like you dont see how incredibly powerful this ability is. If you place a magnetize in one marked enemy, you have magnetize on every marked enemy. If you place nidus 3rd ability (95% damage reduction possible !!!) on a marked enemy, you gave it on all of them. If you covert lethality one if them, you kill all of them. 

 

13 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

50 at base means if you bladestorm 15 enemies (the ability is supposed to be used for killin large crowds) you can look up to 700 energy (14x50 as the first is free). Ash only has 150 at base. This pretty much would KILL build diversity, as you would be forced to max efficiency AND Zenurik for it, just like current sh*tty Bladestorm does.

This is not bladestorm, and is not supposed to be used for killing large crowds, but for picking the strongest enemies and either use them to your advantage (magnetize, link) or kill them. regardless of their level.

We can call it "deathmark" if you want. I think you can still call it a stronger variation of bladestorm because you still mark enemies (just more easily controllable) and "interact" with them using clones (of abilities). Maybe if you melee-finish a marked enemy there could be shadow clones doing the animation simultaniously with you on the other narked enemies.

Also, 50 at BASE. Means you can tone it down with efficiency to less than 20. 14 × 20 is 280, which is fine to me, because having a mark on 15 enemies is insane.

14 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

The only way to keep BS as it works now, is to make it a 100 energy duration marking phase of about 6-10 during which you can mark as many as you please for No Additional Cost. Then press 4 again or wait for the timer to run out to unleash BS. AND the 2 clones assisting Ash not following him, so Ash can only do 1/3rd of the cutscenes instead of all of them.

This was not an idea for a bladestorm rework.

14 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Yeah, and if you need it in a pinch because some #$&(% triggered an alarm during a stealth run you are scr*wed because you have no energy because, shockingly, you don't kill a lot when you do stealth play.

Then use another frame for spy missions. Also, you can kill without being detected.

14 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

I like this

If your interested, my idea for ash umbras 5 was the operator doing an animation and then going into marking mode (like the marking mode from the current bladestorm) and letting you mark everything you point at for 3 seconds. These marks arent bladestorm markes but like the "deathmarks" from my new 4th ability.

Thank you for your detailled feedback Nazrethim! I hope you reply to this like you did before!

[EpicBred]

Also why is my thread here now? Who did move it there and why? You also dont just put every warframe rework idea into the "retune all warframes" thread do you?

[Corial]

5 hours ago, EpicBred said:

Also why is my thread here now? Who did move it there and why? You also dont just put every warframe rework idea into the "retune all warframes" thread do you?

Probably cause Umbra was mentioned.