[U21 Megathread] New Quest: Chains of Harrow Feedback

[Fluffysbeans]

I tend to get super excited for the completion of a quest and yell at all my friends who play Warframe to log back in and play the cool, new, exciting lore tidbit. This time I told them they weren't missing much. Here's why.
1. Operator mode. Everyone else already said why it was bad. Everything about Operators needs to change, and pronto. Mods, extra health, more energy, better mobility, better damage, an actual energy bar with numbers, you name it, it all needs a fix.

2. Horror type things are near impossible to pull off if your player is either overpowered, assisted, or able to see ahead. I had all three. My frame is strong enough that everything was trivialized, my sentinel cleared a bunch of enemies before I even could think to react, and animal instinct removed any possible scares from the veil fanatics. Maybe consider disabling sentinel/companion usage for the mission? I know it's kinda too late to change this one, but there really should have been a way to do the entire quest with no weapon, that would have added incredibly well to the horror aspect. Less enemies, and the spirit chasing you being a little less persistent would have allowed this. As a few others already said, Warframe just really isn't the place for horror missions, but there are still ways it could have been done better.

3. The quest basically broke down into a game of annoying fetch. It started strong, and then turned into a messy blend of synth targets and Maroo's ayatan hunting. Both of those have nice reward for the effort required, but Harrow's quest didn't even sprinkle 25 creds my way. Seeing a blank reward screen once is fine, but after the 4th one it gets old quick.

4. I see so many people talking about the "Hey, kiddo" part, and I didn't get to see or hear it. Somehow I missed both the dialogue and the visuals, and I'm not the first. That part really should have just been a cutscene with the ghost/fragment/whatever persisting after it. Even just making it not disappear as soon as it left the screen would have helped some.

It's funny, Octavia's Anthem in theory should have had a similar reaction from me, but I genuinely enjoyed that one. As out of place as the end was, it was fun and challenging, and my mistakes felt like I could have done things better, not that I was limited to the point of inevitable failure like the end of Harrow. I might be overreacting a little bit, since the quest quality, both in lore and voice acting, has drastically improved (it was great before, now it's even more amazing), but the quest rubbed me the wrong way on too many fronts to not leave some feedback. It's not the Glast Gambit's index bonanza (ew), but it definitely could have been better.

[Cosmic_Elf]

It was a fantastic quest, played it twice... dark and spooky and the damage from enemies was incremental as you moved closer to the objective of the mission. At first i did not understand the relationship with Rell and the cards, until I questioned in the forums, and someone explained that he is autistic. and was used to help him understand face expression with emotions, which i personally made mistakes in. I had no crashes, no glitches, the quest was well done. Was loot crates removed on purpose so that we had to scrounge lockers for resources, e.g. ammo, energy and health ? I noticed hidden rooms had loot crates. 

The only glitch or problem I had and missed out from everyone else, was at the end of the quest where one's Tenno sits on part of the ship's furniture and says "Hey Kiddo.." That never happened to me.. I replayed Quest to see if I could get it, it did not work.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Cosmic_Elf

[Cosmic_Elf]

56 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

I tend to get super excited for the completion of a quest and yell at all my friends who play Warframe to log back in and play the cool, new, exciting lore tidbit. This time I told them they weren't missing much. Here's why.
1. Operator mode. Everyone else already said why it was bad. Everything about Operators needs to change, and pronto. Mods, extra health, more energy, better mobility, better damage, an actual energy bar with numbers, you name it, it all needs a fix.
 

Well i think they had a reasonable compensation where if you died , you did not have to start all over again with the steps of removing the chains, and the enemies respawned with full health. Once upon a time my tenno used to be tied to my war frame's rejuvenation aura mod.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Cosmic_Elf

[Yrveth]

7 hours ago, DashingDevil303 said:

It wasn't because he was autistic, it was because he was in pain from the constant bombardment from the void. him being autistic had nothing to do with it, we were helping him by freeing him, so he could move on.

Yes, of course, the problem is that this is not how it works. When a group is looking to be represented, there's not just the matter of being in the book or game or TV show, but also what happens to the representative character. Are they a villain? How are they treated by other characters? Do they die to further someone else's story? The burden to show good intentions towards the represented group is particularly heavy if your book/game/TV show only has one such character. Being inclusive is about people looking at what you're creating and seeing themselves there. But if they look and see that you treat them as villains, or as disposable, that's not cool.

In a simplified form, "making an autistic character just to kill him 80 minutes later" is "not cool".

Regardless of how that death is justified within the setting. Because just as easily they could have written something else. 

14 hours ago, Chroia said:

Speaking of sound... Why's the Lotus whispering? She's on comms inside my head

I wondered the same! Since she's not usually prone to theatrics it felt really strange. But not in a good way.

Last few quests, the Lotus (that is, her writing) is not that great. When she's not completely removed from the narrative, her knowledge and competence are constantly challenged. TWW had her deferring to Ordis of all people, in CoH she's painted as completely clueless. The comparison to the Lotus who welcomed us to the game is really not flattering.

[mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa]

The first two missions are OK.

Palladino shows the limit of your graphic design: no eyes, no facial expression, all the empathy relies on the dubbing (and on the body-acting). Since the dubbing of Palladino isn't very good (... and her body-acting is plain awful), I couldn't care less about what she said.

Then, the farming part. I have no idea why you pretend it's a quest when it's 3 times the same mission, and that mission is 3 times the same objective. You could call it "farming for parts" or "invasion missions" and nobody would tell the difference. This part includes random CC (CC are not fun in solo. Just waiting for death isn't fun) and random insta-death. In the end it's just a rush mission we already did 1000 times, where we jump everywhere and look at nothing else than the minimap. I don't know why you use quests to implement normal missions and normal farming, I don't know what kind of atmosphere you intend to create during a rush mission where we don't look anything. And this part is solo, because... Farming is more fun alone ? i don't know.

Then the operator part. yay.

1/10. Worst quest in the game. Even Glast gambit is better : at least the farming part can be done with friends, and there's no operator part.

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa

[blazinvire]

Visuals were amazing as heck, the concepts and the techniques used, building the tension and the music, the positional sound, clever use of lighting and general theme were spot on for what it felt you were aiming for.

Which makes my disappointment all the more painful, since I really wanted to like this quest.  I think this quest suffered immensely from the problems that have been plaguing Warframe for the longest time: the core gameplay.
There is no tension if I can blow up the entire screen with a single shot from a Sonicor, or if all the little jabs from enemies and effects get immediately healed from casual Molting or whatever, or if my Warframe plain gets insta-killed for any number of reasons.
The gameplay side of things just kind of felt annoying, like I was tripping over a bunch of cracks in the pavement while happily walking along reading a book -almost wish it was simply a book or a movie, rather than this feeling of dilapidated Warframe gameplay being shoe-horned in.

And the forced operator mode was the reverse-cherry-on-top, something that could have been amazing, stuck outside your death machine and having use your wits and master what you've got, feeling a little bit squishier and more pressured.
Except it ended up being a whole lot of jogging while throwing beams over your shoulder, waiting for your energy to recharge, punctuated frequently by respawning because you inevitably get whittled to death because you're made of wet tissue paper and have no methods of defense or evasion beyond jogging or void dashing that eats the energy you needed to use to kill the buggers -thus demanding you jog even longer.

Fix the friggin core gameplay, it is ruining the quest.

[mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa]

2 hours ago, Fluffysbeans said:

It's funny, Octavia's Anthem in theory should have had a similar reaction from me, but I genuinely enjoyed that one.

Suda is well-written and well-dubbed, she's one of the most touching character in the game. This may be a factor.

Palladino isn't well-written and isn't well-dubbed, and Rell... You run and kill him, then you run and kill him again, and again, and again, and again. Are you supposed to feel anything for him ?

 

[Efro_D_Siac]

Quest was aight from a lore standpoint woyld have liked more questions answered but hey. 

On the other hand i received nothing with the tranmission at the end.

[ShadowMark25]

Incredible and Spooky quest is all I can say. Felt pretty scar to me, right from the get-go.

I pretty much walked the whole way, too spooky to run. Unless it was where we had to run away.

Even the introduction and ending felt right; since it made sense for even an enemy of Red Veil to do the quest, and for us to get a Warframe blueprint as a reward.

The Earth remaster was incredible too. Putting a Steel Meridian base there as an excuse to visit it was a nice touch. And the sound remaster. I still can't get over it

 

Apart from that, I do have some minor grips with it though. Some lore based, some mechanic based:

Lore points:

Spoiler

1. The blood messages were all written in English. Wasn't Rell Orokin? So shouldn't the messages be in Orokin Script (with English Subtitles) as well?
2. When Paladino pointed out that Lotus wasn't Margulis, Lotus' reaction felt a bit flat. Considering how much effort she put in being a mother to Tenno, shouldn't Lotus have reacted a bit more, specially when this was pointed out in front of us Tenno?

 

Mechanic:

Spoiler

I kept dying in Operator mode, over and over again. Is it possible to improve Operator survivability a bit and have it be a prereq of the quest?

All in all, an awesome quest. Currently my third favourite, with first being 'The Second Dream' and the second 'Sands of Inaros'. Thanks for the incredible content.

 

PS, are the occasional flickers we get on mission loading and sometimes inmission intentional? Cause if it is, spoookkyyyy..............................

Edited June 30, 2017 by ShadowMark25

[UncaIroh]

17 hours ago, Kamiya-kun said:

Bug: not sure if this was intentional, but in the final mission, you don't get to keep any of the drops you pick up as your warframe. I managed to find a Valana Sculpture in the derelict and was disappointed to see that I wasn't able to keep it. 

 

Eh, remember that the place is a red veil base. they own anything you pick up so you gotta give it back because they're technically not a tenno (as a whole) enemy.

Also that point in the post above me about how jarring it is that red veil knows so much about lotus, and that they're not freaking out over the fact that the tenno are essentially an army of murder machines controlled by a "good" sentient is something to seriously consider next time to make the dialogue less...clunky?

I mean someone who is not tenno knew her secret this whole time! WTF?

Edited June 30, 2017 by TonyWong

[VampirePirate]

This is the only quest ever made that i actually love.

I can't get enough of the spook and horror stuff.

I can't stop looking at Palladino because her body is sexay.

Only thing that bothered me was the fact that my operator kept dying at the end.  Operators are so frail.

Overall i had fun.  I just hope playing Harrow is spooky.  I'm still waiting for him to finish construction.

[NightmareT12]

Now that I have more time I'd like to go into more detail about Quest feedback.

The setting, ambient and presentation were great. Having the screen go red and then dark really freaked me out (I'm such a pu-- when it comes to horror :P), the first mission in the ship spooked me quite a bit too.

Seeing Iron Wake, it was great. I hope you guys add more bases for other Syndicates. We also asked for Operator relay, friendly reminder. We also asked for Mountain Pass, friendly reminder #2 :P
 

Palladino was a great character I feel. While she doesn't really add much to the World itself (for now) and she appeared just like that (you guys should expand more on Syndicates background through collectible stuff like Cepahlon Fragments when possible), her role in the quest was executed flawlessly. I must say there was a time I was thinking she'd imprison me in the tree too :P

Exploring Rell's emotions through the cards and learning that tiny bit more about the Zariman felt good. Rell's character I feel was well executed. Unfortunately, trapping his emotions became more of a nuissance -- not because it was hard, but because it felt a bit too long. Final battle thoughts on the Derelict are on the first page :P

Having said this, props to George and the audio team as well as the tileset and lighting guys for the amazing work pured on this one. Dark areas and lighting was great, the Harrow/Rell sanctuary zone was absolutely beautiful, and the sound design was top notch playing with my headphones. 10/10 there guys.

 

I hope the Derelict gets a redesign next. Quest looked great but after seeing the super beautiful Earth and visiting the Derelict, I cried inside. It also made the Sanctuary felt disjointed due the clash of Blinn Phong with PBR, old lighting with new, overall texture quality (transition from old tile to new was such a clash), etc.

[LuckyCharm]

Must say i found the story more than a little confusing. But other than that...

by far my favourite quest yet, and i got chills. More impactful for me than both the second dream and war within even with how the atmosphere was made

[Fix_Buzlok_Accuracy]

This quest, like all things in life, has the good and the bad.

Good:

• The beginning, when you first get the message, was superb. 
• The shadow monster hordes were a nice touch.
• Iron Wake was nice. Not sure what purpose it'll serve. Will we get more syndicate bases and blow up our relays?
• "Hey Kiddo"

Bad:

• Rule of 3 turned into 3x3. Capturing 3 things 3 times started to get kind of grating.
• Shadow Rell. Being constantly hounded, Crowd Controlled, and mauled by the unstoppable shadow thing that liked to teleport right in front of me and block me was a little annoying.
• Rell himself. I found his mannerisms to be annoying. I felt no sympathy for him, more frustrated at his existence of trying to murder me and I couldn't shoot him.
• THE FINAL BATTLE. That had to be all caps. That is how much I despised that battle. I'll keep it brief and short. Operator combat is horrendous.  My introduction to it was a red veil dude teleporting in right next to me instant murdering me. Then Captain McBlockDeathBeamWithSpinnyBlades was pretty frustrating too. Knockback leading to your immediate doom was annoying. I died about 20 times trying to figure out how to not suck as an operator. This part right here absolutely ruined the flow of the quest, and was very upsetting.

Mediocre:

• Judging by Palladino's conversation: Does everyone else know what we and the warframes are except us?

[LSG501]

Ok honest opinions....

Sound team... you guys did a great job and I don't think you'll get enough recognition for how much effort was required for some of it or how important it was to the feel of the levels. 

Level lighting team... again you guys did a great job too but I am so glad the dev's gave melee a torch lol

 

As to the mission:

Walking... I felt like I was walking for far too long and it wasn't like I had anything else to do

Defending red veil person was pretty easy... I just inaros for the entire quest.

When at SM base on earth we're asked to turn into our operator to speak to red veil yet we don't even see our operator at any point, not even to walk though a door...edit: was also pretty 'laggy' in my experience... far worse 'stuttering' from new players than relays

Rell was little more than a nuisance during the scanning levels which after 6 I was like... really I still need to do more of these. 

Then to top it off we get the end bit which to me was an exercise in frustration due to the fact it was operator only and well operator mode sucks because DE hasn't listened to any of the complaints we had since it was released

 

Ultimately the mission wasn't exactly fun if I'm honest. 

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by LSG501

[(XBOX)Quedakid11]

2 hours ago, Krivasran said:

  Mediocre:

• Judging by Palladino's conversation: Does everyone else know what we and the warframes are except us?

Yes it seems so.....many bosses state that you are in a hollow shell or a empty tin suit...

 

Remember lotus has lied and to Me is still lying to us....the entire solar system would know what Tenno are considering the impact they had on surviving...many orokin types seem to still be alive in one form or another.... and the reason you don't know is because you have been in cryosleep for god Knows how long and the second dream pretty much let you Know that you full and well thought you were really your warframe....

Edited June 30, 2017 by (XB1)Quedakid11

[Jobistober]

DE,

Overall, great quest!. Intriguing story/lore and challenging gameplay but slightly tainted by tedious mechanics. Loved the atmosphere of the missions, the blacked out tiles and having nothing but a flashlight to see with. The ambush in the opening mission actually gave me a jumpscare! It reminded me of the atmosphere Warframe had in infested missions when I joined back at U7. I REALLY wish infested tilesets would have that dark, red, brooding ambiance again! Loved the sinister look of and encounters with Rell.

There were one or two missions too many of capturing manifestations and quickly got repetitive. The final battle was more tedious than truly challenging or exciting. I don't mind being restricted to operator mode, but if you guys are going to continue to limit us to operator mode for parts of missions and quests, you really need to rethink the mechanics of this mode. My problem with this final fight and my problem since TWW is how clunky and limited operator mode is. We still do not have a practical indication of how much energy we have as the operator and abilities drain way too much power. Void beam exhausted all energy after killing just one enemy, then you are unable to flee other enemies and attacks. Other than that, great job! Really enjoyed it.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Jobistober

[Mak_Gohae]

i dont know if this should part of this thread but, can you not just randomly throw out the parts of the frame into random missions in the game?

That really takes some fun away from obtaining frames. I wasnt even going for Harrow and i randomly got a part from him because i did a mission where his parts drop.

That's no fun. You get to do a whole story and then.... just go play the game! Takes you out.

You need to come up with some frame part specific quest. Like, make it a combination of different types of missions together. Make into a big raid, make it into something that make you dive into the world and gives the feeling of obtaining a new frame.

Like, you do jump into this frame-farming mission by first it being extermination, you clear out the bigger enemy presence. Then you do that new escort mission cause you are looking for a scientist but he is now with the normal population, then the mission has you do spy vaults so you can locate the right place. Then you do a rescue, then defend him as he is trying to do scans to find a part , then excavation.

Essentially, since there is no new bosses to drop frame parts you should make then drop from raids or some super long missions.

[Bibliothekar]

As much as I liked the quest lore-wise, I have two, no, three big problems with it gameplay-wise.

• First, solo only. I'm playing Warframe because I want to play with my friends. Being forced to play through these quests alone instead of discovering them as a team really takes away from that.
• Second, repetition. You come up with a unique mission for a quest - and then you put three of them in a row. And it turns sour really quickly. This was a problem with Nidus, it was a problem with Octavia and it was a problem with Harrow now.
• Third, the final mission. You send us in with our squishy operator, who has absolutely ridiculous little amounts of health and energy, and pit us against FOUR enemies at the same time. Enemies, who just have to say "boop" and we're a goner. And on top of these enemies there's an indestructible floaty thing that carpet-bombs the area. This is not fun.

For future quests, I really hope that I'll be able to play them in a squad again. If the last mission is solo-only, okay, I can live with that. But at least let us do the rest with others. To combat repetition, if you have to put the same mission type in a quest more than once, at least don't put them back-to-back. Let us do something else in between.

And for the last mission of this quest specifically, it would have greatly helped if a) my abilities would only have used half energy and b) the Red Veil guys had dropped health orbs (and maybe energy orbs) on death. Because our operator has no shields and health doesn't regenerate, it was practically impossible to get through that mission without dying several times. Heck, at one point I respawned and immediately lost half my health again because the floaty thing nuked me right away. This is not how things should be!

 

Warframe has taken a backseat to other games for the last few months, and the Harrow quests didn't really help to pull me back. It rather affirmed me that there's more fun stuff in my backlog to spend what little time I have at the moment with.

[Samurai_Y]

As a player of  4 years on Warframe....
This Harrow quest was HORRIBLE!!!!! 
 

My God, my brain is all over the place at how bad this quest was......but let me start with this:

1. I liked the beginning it was intense and creepy like the vibes of a H.P Lovecraft novel and it left me with the memories of old Alien movies. It was a mystery with 2 of my favorite factions in the game...Steel Meridian and Red Veil. Would we finally see these 2 factions interacting and working together? Would we see their leaders come together and converse as to what caused these murders on their ships?

2. NO!!! We don't get any of that. The new base on earth is a lifeless excuse for the plot to move forward. The Steel Meridian and Red Veil don't interact with each other at all! They just say the same crap as they would do on a relay. MISSED OPPORTUNITY for world-building. Instead the base is just an area for us to talk to one person to take us through to the next few missions...which (Apart from the initial encounter Rell) are 3 SYNTHESIS missions..............3 of them!!! 3! Not one. not two, 3........... (Uranus, Earth ODD) 

3.  And then you get to go ahead and fight against Rell and oh man....does Digital Extremes drop the ball here
First off...it is not that hard, but it is bloody FRUSTRATING. For this section, you have to play as the Operator, that's right....the Operator with 100p and and beam that only shoots for 5 seconds. After exhausting your powers, one can do nothing except run and wait for your powers to recharge and then start trying again to kill the waves of enemies with Rell shooting homing energy at you.  

The shear amount of loading "death" screens players need to go through was painful. Thankfully the game doesn't re-spawn killed enemies when your operator dies; if it did....players would have uninstalled the game faster than a feminist can get angry at a free-speech supporter at Vid-Con 

Here's a message from everyone to DE.........IMPROVE how the operator controls. Add some ties with the focus trees (e.g: madurai = improved beam damage/ Zenurik = Recover abilities faster ), improve the cloaking on your operator, hell make him/her run faster so they don't feel so weighted!!

And for God's sake do something about 100hp, one or two hits from an enemy and BOOM we cut to the death loading screen; and this happens often. The enemies you face though, are extremely easy, it's just trying to juggle the weighted controls...low health and the fact that Invincible Rell can shoot you from afar is FRUSTRATING. The pace of the quest slows to a crawl here, and my goodness was it disappointing that there was not even a dialogue choice for the Operator at all throughout this quest. Just a narration from Lotus and others that ends in a predictable fight for the new Warframe... I'm getting off-topic though...

The main point was that you are fighting Rell with this overwhelming sense of disappointment at the entirety of the main quest, and it FRUSTRATES players further when they have been put in a situation where the task isn't difficult, but it's just brain-dead and tedious. I hope Warframe can do better next time, and I understand that making games is hard, especially with the beautiful earth graphics update; but please at least try to vary up the game modes and use the myriad of interesting characters you have at your disposal, instead of introducing new ones. It breathes character into the game. It makes players feel like the quests we are doing for the people in the universe ACTUALLY MATTERS. 

For example, the mission where we go after the relic: DE should've added Maroo to help us find the relic or hell maybe even Darvo or Clem
The mission where we are in ODD, make it so that the Mycona Colony (Nidus's mission) helps us....or attack us depending on our choices in THAT quest
Maybe an arch-wing mission would have been nice when we were running away from Rell as he prevents us from going into our Liset by blasting us into space

These are things I just thought of in 1 minute and already it sounds better than 3 rinse and repeat synthesis missions. I know you guys can do better  than this.

In conclusion, the atmosphere and hype leading up to this quest was amazing, but it failed to capture any of its magic through its boring repetitive game-play and predictable story-line. It wastes potential for character development and world-building, and opts instead to offer more of the same missions we've played through for years and a frustrating ending boss fight that leaves a sour taste in players' mouths. The meaning of the word Harrow is to "cause distress to someone" and if that was Digital Extremes' intentions...than they have succeeded in doing just that

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by Samurai_Y

[Bibliothekar]

On 29.6.2017 at 1:16 PM, Akeiresh said:

I do have to admit though, nice touch on adding the child for a few seconds in the ship and have them disappear. I didn't expect that and it gave me a pleasant surprise.

He does? I've missed that because I was so fed up from the last fight that I immediately closed the game after the end of quest screen showed up. Well done, DE ...

[ShadowMark25]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Quedakid11 said:

Yes it seems so.....many bosses state that you are in a hollow shell or a empty tin suit...

 

Remember lotus has lied and to Me is still lying to us....the entire solar system would know what Tenno are considering the impact they had on surviving...many orokin types seem to still be alive in one form or another.... and the reason you don't know is because you have been in cryosleep for god Knows how long and the second dream pretty much let you Know that you full and well thought you were really your warframe....

I think that's because when they cut us open, all they find is an empty tin suite.

Remember Alad V in Second Dream? He's supposed to be forefront in Warframe research, and even he couldn't figure out how Warframes truly worked (or who we were for that matter).

The Queens knowing us make sense, they're Orokin. The Syndicate leaders? Maybe. Specially in case of Red Veil, since Rell could have told Paladino.

The Lotus having no reaction to Paladino saying:

Spoiler

"You are not Margulis"

Is what doesn't make sense to me. If Lotus did though, can someone point it out please? I must have missed that.

Edited June 30, 2017 by ShadowMark25

[ShadowMark25]

9 hours ago, TonyWong said:

Eh, remember that the place is a red veil base. they own anything you pick up so you gotta give it back because they're technically not a tenno (as a whole) enemy.

Also that point in the post above me about how jarring it is that red veil knows so much about lotus, and that they're not freaking out over the fact that the tenno are essentially an army of murder machines controlled by a "good" sentient is something to seriously consider next time to make the dialogue less...clunky?

I mean someone who is not tenno knew her secret this whole time! WTF?

One word, Rell. Guy was seriously lonely stuck there (even the shadow in the operator fight said so).

[DashingDevil303]

15 hours ago, Belgard said:

Yes, of course, the problem is that this is not how it works. When a group is looking to be represented, there's not just the matter of being in the book or game or TV show, but also what happens to the representative character. Are they a villain? How are they treated by other characters? Do they die to further someone else's story? The burden to show good intentions towards the represented group is particularly heavy if your book/game/TV show only has one such character. Being inclusive is about people looking at what you're creating and seeing themselves there. But if they look and see that you treat them as villains, or as disposable, that's not cool.

In a simplified form, "making an autistic character just to kill him 80 minutes later" is "not cool".

Well, he was already dead, and he was painted as a hero who sacrificed himself even though the people he sacrificed himself for mistreated him, and it was supposed to be tragic and sad, and he was definitely not shown to be disposable. In fact, he is probably the best character they've written, Well, him, and that one girl who can control the infested and will sacrifice herself if given the choice.

[deltas5]

I have yet to finish this quest. I am a person who is scared/frightened easily at disturbing horror type stuff. I have had experience with some scary and creepy stuff (Along the lines of the Conjuring plot line I guess) and this has really prevented me from finishing this quest. I want to say I am not upset, complaining, or giving an all around negative review about the content or design of the quest, but I just wanted to share my experience of the quest so far.

I would like to say from what I have done so far, the sound team has done an amazing job, the quest design was well done, pretty cool we get to dive a little deeper into syndicate lore of the Red Veil. Keep up the great work DE! I look forward to the next quest!