[Chains of Harrow spoilers] Please never make me do combat as the operator again.

[theSultrySultan]

Concerning the final part of Chains of Harrow, the fight as the Operator against many Veil operatives;

I fully understand the intent from a gameplay perspective was intended to "up" the intensity by denying you the power of your Warframe.  However, due to the amount of waiting required to recharge your void beam and the limited scope of what the Operator can actually do, the fight turned into a boring, frustrating slog as you ran in circles around the arena waiting for Void Beam to recharge.  It killed the pacing, it killed the tension, and it killed any immersion I might have had, and on the whole I ended the quest annoyed instead of fulfilled.

Food for thought.

[DeejayPwny]

Expand on the Operator first I guess

 

[NightmareT12]

4 minutes ago, DeejayPwny said:

Expand on the Operator first I guess

 

Indeed, that was my issue with it. At the current stats, it was a hassle. Even if it was super forgiving because it's not resetting the stage, getting "dead" so often broke too much the flow of the quest.

[torint_man]

Yeah, the operator really should have much more energy capacity and recharge rate. Currently, it's slow and clunky to actually use. It's not like it would be remotely OP or anything for the operator to be actually usable for more than 5 seconds. Also the whole dying to a light breeze is annoying.

[blackheartstar_pc]

Good I thought it was just me. The whole time I'm thinking to myself "what am I missing" as I ran in a giant circle aiming behind and getting void beams off when ready. Except the bow guys I void crept up on them.

[Shockwave-]

HOw about just not force us to use the operator. I try really hard to pretend the operator doesn't exist. Worst addition to warframe ever. Operator mode should just die a quiet death. It's just another cheese tactic to remove our warframe weapons and mods from the game instead of giving us a challenge befitting our warframe weapons and mods.

[Blood_Poppy]

i been asking them about if they will introduced modding system for operator, but they just give a more questions...  check devstream 93 or 94

[DeejayPwny]

47 minutes ago, Blood_Poppy said:

i been asking them about if they will introduced modding system for operator, but they just give a more questions...  check devstream 93 or 94

Probably because they've heavily implied major changes are gonna be unveiled at TennoCon. 

[DoomFruit]

Well, this is how DE work. They introduce things that are hated (eg. the massive pain in the arse to navigate europa and eris tilesets), and then instead of making them so that they aren't reviled and we actually choose to do them, they force us into doing them (infecting other planets with those tilesets).

Edited June 29, 2017 by DoomFruit

[Zzinged]

Man, that last mission was a PITA for real. Please don't make us do that again. 

[FollowTheFaceless]

BTW Some says they seen the Operator sitting on the Market table after quest saying "Hi" or something to you. Any suggestions?

[theSultrySultan]

1 hour ago, FollowTheFaceless said:

BTW Some says they seen the Operator sitting on the Market table after quest saying "Hi" or something to you. Any suggestions?

It's a little creepy final prod the quest gives you.  Right after you finish, if you turn around, your Operator is sitting there with greyed skin and creepy eyes, and says in a distorted voice "Hey, kiddo," (a reference to your father's phrase from The War Within) before disappearing the next time they go off-screen.

Anyhow, I'm glad to hear other people's opinions on this final mission as well.

[FollowTheFaceless]

1 minute ago, theSultrySultan said:

It's a little creepy final prod the quest gives you.  Right after you finish, if you turn around, your Operator is sitting there with greyed skin and creepy eyes, and says in a distorted voice "Hey, kiddo," (a reference to your father's phrase from The War Within) before disappearing the next time they go off-screen.

Anyhow, I'm glad to hear other people's opinions on this final mission as well.

Replayed the quest and... so...

[Wandrecanada]

24 minutes ago, theSultrySultan said:

It's a little creepy final prod the quest gives you.  Right after you finish, if you turn around, your Operator is sitting there with greyed skin and creepy eyes, and says in a distorted voice "Hey, kiddo," (a reference to your father's phrase from The War Within) before disappearing the next time they go off-screen.

Anyhow, I'm glad to hear other people's opinions on this final mission as well.

I saw that and immediately entered operator mode and ran up to the front of the ship. It actually stayed there so I managed to have my operator stand next to it with my Warframe present as well. Kinda looked comical for a moment.  The eyes were fairly creepy though.

[DreamsmithJane]

10 hours ago, theSultrySultan said:

a reference to your father's phrase from The War Within

That's not your father. It's your own "man in the wall", with the 'wall' being the veil between normal space and the void. In my case, it's a "woman in the wall", because it reflects your operator. At first, I thought it was Margulis herself, but it's nothing like that. It started happening in TWW because Teshin was "forced to undo what Margulis did" and reacquaint you with the void-corrupted side of your mind. The hallucinations (voices, images) are your subconscious mind trying to shield you from the corruption of void exposure by allowing you to conceptualize it as a separate entity. But it's not. It's you. Or rather, it's what the void is turning you into. A demon, according to Helminth.

Anyway, yeah, the operator system needs work, along with the focus system. They know it needs work. They said so. And then they went and made another new quest that places that system front and center, thereby making the job of working on it that much bigger. Not the choice I would have made, and I feel like they're digging themselves a hole with this, but it is what it is. That last mission was not fun.

[Oreades]

That fight definitely made me look forward to an operator rework. 

At one point I started to get mad because there where enough enemies that I was constantly out of energy and then I just stopped caring. Every time my operator ran out of power I just stopped moving and let them die. It actually kinda felt like it was faster to die than running around hoping you didn't get murdered long enough to build up a usable charge.

[MillbrookWest]

Gunna throw my 2c in and say i thought the quest was a solid A- until the final fight.

At best C- for that final fight. Solid D if i wanna be cynical. 

I thought it was going to be a showdown between mind and body (since Rell was a mental manifestation) and we were going to go toe to toe with Rell. But what we get is really, really weak.

Forcing people to use the operator in this manner only exacerbates the issues people have with them; They are weak, and their energy pool is pitiful. But yet, we are asked to fend off wave after wave of enemies. What's worse, someone had the gall to couple the weak runner enemies with that tank and his greatsword. I feel someone should have raised their hand and put forward the point concerning the fragility of the Operators to begin with. This section essentially guarantees the players are going to hit the cycle of "run out of energy, die, run out of energy, die....". This isn't a fun gameplay loop.

After the 3rd or 4th death i just stopped caring. Making what should have been a really exciting finish instead become just a complete chore.

If a dev reads this, i hope it gets noted that this is how you kill the pacing of a story. Not a great way to end a quest! At no point does it play to any of the strengths of the operator, it shoehorns in gameplay elements that focus solely on its weaknesses and the player is left to 'just deal with it'.

The last fight aside, it was a great quest otherwise! Atmosphere was set really well, and the characters were pretty decent. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by MillbrookWest

[Avernal]

Just wanting to make sure that the feedback is seen so posting on the official forums also, but this topic is discussed at better length and with more insight on how it could be improved/fixed on this Reddit topic:

For me the problem is it was a very badly designed encounter that made for an extremely unpleasant and frustrating 'gameplay' experience. The limited & shared operator energy pool is the biggest culprit really - give you a bunch of utility abilities and then basically not let you use them to survive/fight because *everything* is on cooldown every few seconds. Add to that your extremely limited health and poor mobility/top speed, suddenly it becomes a recipe for disaster.

For me the only way to manage the fight was to hold sprint, run backwards in circles around the alter and be firing my void beam backwards at whatever enemies were pursuing me. This let me avoid most (but not all - the greatsword users with the heat-seeking energy wave were an unfair addition in current Operator mode state) damage but made for an extremely boring and tedious 'boss' fight. It also meant that I was essentially exploiting the poorly written NPC AI to make an unpleasant experience slightly more manageable, rather than relying on tactics, strategy and management of the abilities Operators were given to utilise.

So yeah, my two cents without resorting to the angry language and finger pointing at certain devteam names I was *actually* using during the whole experience, is that the Operator mode needs a significant rework before 'boss' encounters like this force you to use it. Otherwise it's just asking for negative response.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Avernal
typos/readability

[DxAdder]

For it was ANOTHER please let this be over and done with quest. The last part killed any real enjoyment for the over all quest.

 

[o.0-]

I think current Operator gameplay is to blame.

That mode needs at least one (lets say a defensive) ability that allows the Operator (or Operator Energy Avatar) to channel Void Energy to make use of its other powers and capabilities.

 

I'd also love to not 'herp a derp' as the Operator in the flesh, and be an energy manifestation of myself, especially seeing how that End Sequence was ultimately designed.

[Cortanis]

2 hours ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

I think current Operator gameplay is to blame.

That mode needs at least one (lets say a defensive) ability that allows the Operator (or Operator Energy Avatar) to channel Void Energy to make use of its other powers and capabilities.

I feel that this is only part of the problem. Yes, we sorely need defensive capability in the worst ways. The other big problem is the super limited power pool that we're working from as well. The recharge and use of the abilities wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that you run out of energy in the blink of an eye... almost literally. You get about one dash in to be able to get away and then maybe a second or two of beam before you're tapped out. At minimum, since dashing is our only semi defensive ability, we need to be able to get in at least two dashes to create some distance and a solid 5 seconds of beam time just to hit any kind of base playability to what currently exists. What I find super odd about the operator gameplay in so far is that we STILL have no ability to actually level/enhance that mode in any real way, and yet they're still pushing the gameplay out like it's really working. >.>

[DaftMeat]

Running away in circles, waiting for void energy to recharge, and dying only to respawn endlessly in the same segment of the mission.

Not my idea of epic cinematic gameplay.

[LSG501]

Basically same opinion for me after playing it, that and it basically felt like I was just doing the tww again but without the warframe.....  it was just an exercise in frustration rather than being fun.

I've felt that operators were added purely as a fashion frame add on since their release and so far nothing that has been added to the game has changed my mind.

We've been complaining since operators release about the lack of clear visuals regarding energy yet the dev's have done nothing to fix that and it's not like that isn't important considering how we're supposed to play operators... then they go and give us a mission that basically relies on our operator and their energy pool.... I kept dying because I had no energy left and it isn't helped when the energy pool is so low and the laser does so little damage.  It wouldn't be so bad if it could tap into our warframe energy/health but it doesn't even do that.

 

 

[Zanchak]

Same here. I reached the point I didn't care, stuck it on pause, went made tea, ate munchies, spat out every cuss word I know and came back to it... which kinda wasnt the feeling I was hoping for with a new quest lol.

I have not enjoyed a quest since Second Dream, and even then I was kinda miffed with the whole teenage space ninja aspect. If they are going to keep ruining quest endings with their use, and yes, it ruins them, then yeh, they need a proper rework so you arent running around in a circle killing the flow of a quest purely so you can pop off a couple of shots or moves before you have to complete another loop again. Just entirely backwards to the rest of the quest and not fun even at all.

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

On 29.6.2017 at 10:48 AM, Shockwave- said:

HOw about just not force us to use the operator. I try really hard to pretend the operator doesn't exist. Worst addition to warframe ever. Operator mode should just die a quiet death. It's just another cheese tactic to remove our warframe weapons and mods from the game instead of giving us a challenge befitting our warframe weapons and mods.

+1