orokin are human or what?

[lullul1635]

I can't figure out orokin's identity in game.

so tenno are their descendants and what are orokin?

are they evolved human or what?

DE ever mentioned about that?

 

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by lullul1635

[aligatorno]

Orokin are indeed humans. The Tenno themselves are orokin changed by the Void.

[lullul1635]

4 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

Orokin are indeed humans. The Tenno themselves are orokin changed by the Void.

So they are officially human, right?

[--F--NerevarCM]

16 minutes ago, lullul1635 said:

So they are officially human, right?

Basically, yep. Everyone in the Orokin Empire was human. However the real Orokins, the ones that call themselves Orokins are humans that achieved immortality.

Edited September 18, 2017 by -SDM-NerevarCM

[DrBorris]

It has never been outright said that the Orokin are Human, but it is assumed.

 

However, it an interesting note that with the whole Kuva thing and transferring consciousness to a new body, that the Orokin could be an alien species that used human bodies as hosts. It is unlikely, but possible at this point as we don't know anything for sure. The empire was surely human, the (Oro)kin are the ones in question.

Edited September 18, 2017 by DrBorris

[Kaotyke]

22 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

Orokin are indeed humans. The Tenno themselves are orokin changed by the Void.

Orokin is actually the name of a caste, the rulling caste. So, no: the Tenno are not Orokin.

The species are still human.

[-Temp0-]

Everyone's human in this universe.

Orokin are just like like a mishmash of augs from deus ex and citizens from Capitol from the Hunger games. Some upper rich class.

[Unus]

Beyond human essentially, Transgenic Nanoaugmented humans who have achieved the ageing abilities of trees and who's minds can be uploaded and downloaded into other's bodies like someone installing an old memory card on a new computer.

[lullul1635]

3 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Orokin is actually the name of a caste, the rulling caste. So, no: the Tenno are not Orokin.

The species are still human.

I just read the articles about orokin here

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Orokin

 

[Dhrekr]

This is a fruitless discussion because it hinges on an unclear dichotomy.

Some people will say that the Orokin are still human because they descend from humans.

Other people will say that the Orokin were evolved/mutated/cyborged to such an extent (acquiring immortality and the capacity to transfer their mind from body to body) that they no longer qualify as humans but as a separate species.

 

They're probably in the Genus "homo", but they're not "homo sapiens". Whether you want to call them human or not, it's your arbitrary choice.

[--F--NerevarCM]

2 minutes ago, lullul1635 said:

I just read the articles about orokin here

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Orokin

 

The Tenno came from the Orokin Empire, from different castes and small colonies that were part of the empire. But they aren't Orokin. This name was reserved only for the ones that achieved immortality.

[Marvelous_A]

I would say Orokin is the next stage of human in evolution line.

[lullul1635]

1 minute ago, Dhrekr said:

This is a fruitless discussion because it hinges on an unclear dichotomy.

Some people will say that the Orokin are still human because they descend from humans.

Other people will say that the Orokin were evolved/mutated/cyborged to such an extent (acquiring immortality and the capacity to transfer their mind from body to body) that they no longer qualify as humans but as a separate species.

 

They're probably in the Genus "homo", but they're not "homo sapiens". Whether you want to call them human or not, it's your arbitrary choice.

Just wondering about their original species.

If they are originated from solar system, it is possible they're human race i guess.

[Dhrekr]

Just now, lullul1635 said:

Just wondering about their original species.

... I suggest you watch all of StalorD's excellent lore videos.

This video solves your question in less than twenty seconds.

[phoenix1992]

They are humans as long as you take the pinch of salt considering the abilities they were utilizing. Well, at least they are supposedly born humans.

Is Ordis a human?
 

[Miser_able]

I don't think they are human, but something close. Take for instance the orokin ghosts seen on Lua, unless all humans at the time were 20 ft giants with morfans they aren't human. 

[13QZXXTTX]

Don't believe everything you are told here.

OROKIN shrouded in mystery.

Kuva.

LORE, LOOK UP LORE!

[BornWithTeeth]

POSTHUMAN SCIENCE LORDS OF THE SOL SYSTEM

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

5 hours ago, Dhrekr said:

This is a fruitless discussion because it hinges on an unclear dichotomy.

Some people will say that the Orokin are still human because they descend from humans.

Other people will say that the Orokin were evolved/mutated/cyborged to such an extent (acquiring immortality and the capacity to transfer their mind from body to body) that they no longer qualify as humans but as a separate species.

 

They're probably in the Genus "homo", but they're not "homo sapiens". Whether you want to call them human or not, it's your arbitrary choice.

 

19 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

POSTHUMAN SCIENCE LORDS OF THE SOL SYSTEM

^

Post human is the term that is generally used if it is a human that artificially evolved beyond humanity.  If it is like the Xmen mutants it would get a new scientific classification.  Considering the one piece of art of an Orokin, whatever they are, they are barely human...

[Othergrunty]

6 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Orokin is actually the name of a caste, the rulling caste. So, no: the Tenno are not Orokin.

The species are still human.

Well it seems that Orokin can refer to three things.

1. The overall society that ruled over a currently unknown amount of the solar system in the past.

2. The leading caste of said society, which used genetic modding, cybernetics and other advanced technologies to constantly switch their minds into fresh human bodies.

3. The culture of said society and their leading caste.

 

For example:

If someone talks of Prime weapons, void towers, neural sentries, reactors, etc. as Orokin in nature they are refering to the Orokin society as a whole and their technological level.

If someone talks of Ballas or the people who invited Ordan to his ill fated assassination attempt as the Orokin, they are refering to the leading caste.

If someone talks of architecture, music and other arts as Orokin in style, they are refering to the culture of the Orokin society.

So technically the Tenno WERE Orokin, because they were people of their society and culture. But to the leading caste they were NOT Orokin because they were of a lower caste.

However it should be noted that this is basicly an insider vs. outsider perspective. Since for an insider anyone not part of the leading caste would not consider themself Orokin. They would likely see themself as Dax, Corpus or similar lower castes. But to an outsider they would all be Orokin because they are part of the society that refers to itself as Orokin.

When Hunhow refers to Alad V. as one he could either mean that Alad can trace his lineage back to surviving members of the Orokin caste, or just because his ancestors were survivors of the Orokin society. To an outsider like Hunhow (who is also likely blinded by hatred) anyone even remotely associated with the society would count as one.

Of course by now the Tenno have tried their best to seperate themself from the Orokin both as subjects and in their culture (using a similar but more subtile aesthetic). Even outsiders might not count them  as Orokin anymore because of turning against them. They didn't so much burn bridges there, they nuked them.

 

 

[OniDax]

The Orokin are post-humans. They are not aliens. There are no aliens in Warframe. They all descended from people on Earth. Other than that, we don't know anything because the lore is a mess. If you look at the Codex lore entries, the Orokin was the name of the Empire (with no further info). If you look at the Cephalon Simaris lore, the Orokin were every human in the Empire. If you look at the Cephalon Fragment lore, the Orokin were just the Executors (with no mention of any emperors).

So, needless to say, we really don't know because DE hasn't taken the time to clarify the lore and to decide what is canon and what is not.

[RugerMK1]

They're humanity raised to the next level, Homo Novus! Unfortunately with the morals of genocidal maniacs and lacking most scruples.  You would think that becoming cold, bold, and gold would instill a refined behavior and kind regard for all intelligent life.  But the Orokin decided that being a pack of miserable bastards would do just as well.

Remember the Tenno didn't just slaughter them on a whim.  That was being worked up to for a long time.  Every outrage, every atrocity and defamation remembered until the Tenno cleaned house.

[Navarc]

Orokin are of human descent, yes.
 

23 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

There are no aliens in Warframe.

Except the being in the void.

[--F--NerevarCM]

18 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

The Orokin are post-humans. They are not aliens. There are no aliens in Warframe. They all descended from people on Earth. Other than that, we don't know anything because the lore is a mess. If you look at the Codex lore entries, the Orokin was the name of the Empire (with no further info). If you look at the Cephalon Simaris lore, the Orokin were every human in the Empire. If you look at the Cephalon Fragment lore, the Orokin were just the Executors (with no mention of any emperors).

So, needless to say, we really don't know because DE hasn't taken the time to clarify the lore and to decide what is canon and what is not.

The only thing that could be considered alien is the sentinels.

Theres no "mess". Orokin is the name of the empire and the name of the caste that ruled the empire. The ones that took the red vial and became immortal. All the other castes have different names like the Archimedians and the citizens of colonies that formed the empire.

There's no "DE doesn't know what is cannon". It simply requires glue everything together and wait for a explanation on the parts that don't fit.

And the lore NEVER said that only Executors exists. Sectarus exists too. In fact, there's a lot of ranks in the Orokin society, the Executors aren't the only rank that belongs the leading caste, and nothing removes the possibility of existance of a emperor.

+Like @Othergrunty said.

 

28 minutes ago, Othergrunty said:

Well it seems that Orokin can refer to three things.

1. The overall society that ruled over a currently unknown amount of the solar system in the past.

2. The leading caste of said society, which used genetic modding, cybernetics and other advanced technologies to constantly switch their minds into fresh human bodies.

3. The culture of said society and their leading caste.

For example:

If someone talks of Prime weapons, void towers, neural sentries, reactors, etc. as Orokin in nature they are refering to the Orokin society as a whole and their technological level.

If someone talks of Ballas or the people who invited Ordan to his ill fated assassination attempt as the Orokin, they are refering to the leading caste.

If someone talks of architecture, music and other arts as Orokin in style, they are refering to the culture of the Orokin society.

So technically the Tenno WERE Orokin, because they were people of their society and culture. But to the leading caste they were NOT Orokin because they were of a lower caste.

 

[OniDax]

16 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

The only thing that could be considered alien is the sentinels.

Theres no "mess". Orokin is the name of the empire and the name of the caste that ruled the empire. The ones that took the red vial and became immortal. All the other castes have different names like the Archimedians and the citizens of colonies that formed the empire.

There's no "DE doesn't know what is cannon". It simply requires glue everything together and wait for a explanation on the parts that don't fit.

And the lore NEVER said that only Executors exists. Sectarus exists too. In fact, there's a lot of ranks in the Orokin society, the Executors aren't the only rank that belongs the leading caste, and nothing removes the possibility of existance of a emperor.

+Like @Othergrunty said.

 

 

The lore is contradictory and a mess. The Simaris lore barely references the Codex lore. The Fragment lore doesn't really reference the Simaris lore. Where the Codex mentioned emperors, the current Fragment lore (which aligns with post-TSD lore) doesn't mention the emperors at all. Neither does the Simaris lore, for that matter. It mentions Executors, Archimedians, Sectarus, and Enginus classes. When Margulis in TSD calls "you Orokin" evil, she's talking to the Executors. Not only that, but the Simaris lore clearly states that the two highest classes are Executor and Sectarus, with only these two being able to access the Executorial Frigates. No reference whatsoever to the emperors. IF the emperors existed, then they'd be the highest class, above Executors and Sectarus. Those two classes would not be the highest classes, and the emperors would have access to Executorial frigates as well.

With regard to the Sentients, they were originally a faction with worm ships and undulating disks, a very different picture than how the Sentients are now. Not only that, but there's also inconsistency between the earlier quests and the current lore. For example, you have the Hidden Messages quest (the Mirage one) mentioning swarming Sentients and Mirage is ripping their heads off. Even the Sentinel lore is different. Where the descriptions for the Prime Sentinels suggest that the Orokin created the sentinels, the Fragment lore suggests they are Sentient creations discovered after the Old War on the edge of the Origin system.

Let's consider the Dax. In the Simaris lore, they are the gun-wielding standard fighting force of the Orokin Empire, with standard military ranks. Yet, post-TSD, they are essentially sword-wielding proto-Tenno who specifically served the Orokin.

Now, how about the Tenno? The Codex entries suggest that the Warframes were literally built around the Tenno. The Warframes were able to wipe out the Sentients (an inconsistency with the upcoming Teralyst in PoE which can only be disabled by the Operator). The Tenno were discovered on the Zariman 10-0 as a bunch of crying children. The adults were gone - not dead, just gone, nowhere to be seen. When the Zariman children were discovered, you still had some semblance of modern Earth, with military officers wearing berets. Even when you get to the Rhino Prime Codex entry, people still have normal English names, like Davis, something that is completely absent in the current game. This is also referred to as the Void era, not the Orokin era. When the Tenno were discovered, they were put on ice, in a morgue-like room. However, when you get to post-TSD lore (specifically Chains of Harrow), we see that the Tenno were discovered during the Orokin era and that Margulis was involved with them from the very beginning, with no indication that they were put on ice where they stayed until the Orokin era. As for the Operators, there is also a contradiction. The Tenno were asleep during the Orokin era. They were dreaming, and didn't even remember they were children. Yet they somehow founded Tenno schools where they pop out of their Warframes as the Operators. And that's not even a contradiction between old lore and new lore. That's just a TSD contradiction.

These are inconsistencies, and I'm not the only one who has recognized that. StallordD, the beloved "lore god", even says the lore is a messy contradiction.