Please Don't Make Me Fish

[Inquizitor]

Fish are tradable, nuff said.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

15 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

Fish are tradable, nuff said.

That is not "nuff said".  Trading for something that is tedious to grind is even adding steps to what shouldn't be a problem.

Even if the prices of fish have gone down to 1p each - that means that rather than do a mission as the OP desired with a reward of a fish gut, the op has to do a mission - by in large a fissure mission, then sit in trade chat to sell that rubbish, then sit in trade chat to get fish guts.

Making (or in this case having made) something tradeable doesnt solve the root issue.

 

[Dasmir]

Sorry bro those fishies have hyperdimensional science stuff to make amps works, in fact the whole void its powered by fishies and sentient are just space fishs.

[FierceRadiance]

21 hours ago, Dank_Falz said:

I mean... you can buy fish off other players you know the majority of prices have collapsed. You need those 7 norg brains for that amp? That'll only cost you 28 plat the price has collapsed to 4 a piece that's like 1 or 2 rare relic drops at most you don't have to do any fishing for this additional content if you really despise it people have already done it for you.

But here's the problem. Plat isn't like Real Money. In RL people earn money with their time, they spend it, they move it around, but they don't "buy" it. But while Plat also moves around, initially somebody somewhere bought it, they paid DE for that Plat, whether it was you, or the guy you got it from, or the guy he got it from. So ultimately, if people are paying even collapsed Plat prices for fish, they or somebody just like them paid DE and bought that Plat so you could purchase those fish. That's BS. Essentially, DE introduced a new reason for people to purchase Plat - so they could spend it in micro-transactions on fish.

WF cannot ever be PTW -the game isn't structured that way, there isn't a 'win' state- but IMHO it is absolutely becoming Pay-To-Play, because there are a growing number of things in the game that you kinda-sorta have to have or want to have if you want to spend your time playing and not farming. The resources you get from fishing fall into this category. The only reasonable way to acquire those things, unless you have hours and hours (or days and days, depending on the resource) to devote to farming for them, is to purchase them with paid-for Plat. Hence...PTP. DE doesn't care where you spend that Plat, because they know somebody somewhere initially bought it from them.

Think about it this way. The reason why Bounty segments are always 500-600 meters away (rather than the 150-300 meters that the pick-up Incursion missions almost always are) is to encourage players to use Archwings. Using Archwings forces you to acquire fish oil, which in turn requires you to farm-fish. OR.........to do a micro-transaction, pay a couple of Plat to avoid that, and spend that farming time soaring across the Plains in your Archwing. PTP.

[ra9una]

Don't get me wrong, I love fishing, I've always been pro-material gathering and crafting in games, more than actual combat and core gameplay, but I have to say I feel a little miffed that I can't craft and amp until I spend x hours fishing. The fact that you need to fish to get components to fish to get components to fish (no that wasn't a mistake), is too much by my book for a single resource gathering method. You need to catch literally hundreds of fish (thousands is you also use them for standing), which kind of takes the fun out of it after a while.

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, FierceRadiance said:

Think about it this way. The reason why Bounty segments are always 500-600 meters away (rather than the 150-300 meters that the pick-up Incursion missions almost always are) is to encourage players to use Archwings. Using Archwings forces you to acquire fish oil, which in turn requires you to farm-fish. OR.........to do a micro-transaction, pay a couple of Plat to avoid that, and spend that farming time soaring across the Plains in your Archwing. PTP.

Bravo, someone else has seen through the smokescreen.

I have a sickening feeling this is part of the reason why Archwing is locked behind fishing and why it magically disappears when hit with that Archwing Disabler munition - instead of having it simply knocked off you, whereupon you'd repair and retrieve it. Same deal with going into melee when in Archwing mode: your gear magically disappears instead of jettisoning. And last but not least, it ties into why Archwing is consumable gear, as opposed to infinite use but limited to say a cooldown or only allowed once per game session.

Archwing in PoE is specifically limited as part of a general plan to force you to either fish or spend plat to get the stuff you want that was introduced in PoE. This also includes Amp segments and Zaw parts...all those things require grinding fish parts. But hey, if you hate fishing and grinding...the fish lady will be all too happy to sell you the fish you need for plat.

Frankly I think this whole system stinks - of rotting fish no less.

[Inquizitor]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

That is not "nuff said".  Trading for something that is tedious to grind is even adding steps to what shouldn't be a problem.

Even if the prices of fish have gone down to 1p each - that means that rather than do a mission as the OP desired with a reward of a fish gut, the op has to do a mission - by in large a fissure mission, then sit in trade chat to sell that rubbish, then sit in trade chat to get fish guts.

Making (or in this case having made) something tradeable doesnt solve the root issue.

 

Well, i personally like fishing. (But not without Resource booster).

Okay, first of all: you dont have to fish / do the mining. Its not like a MUST-DO, you can live without it too, noone is forcing you.

2nd: I am aware, that ranking up with ostrons requires some fish parts, which are in amounts 1 to maybe 10, so that should not be any problem for experienced player.

3rd: as i said, they are tradeable->for lazy Tenno.

4th: Root issue? Excuse me, but what? Fishing is great, only good non-combat activity that requires patience and little skill. That is all to it, And besides, its not any issue, thing is, you wont ever need the fish parts to complete a story quest or something. Its all just optional part of the game.

5th: They improved fishing several times, baits now lasts longer, Luminos crafting time was reduced...what more can you ppl ask for?

Try to ...enjoy the game for once, instead of pressing 4 as ember and wiping out the entire populations of enemies, geez. (sorry, Xbox user, idk which button it is on controller actually...)

Edited October 30, 2017 by Inquizitor

[krc473]

12 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

That is not "nuff said".  Trading for something that is tedious to grind is even adding steps to what shouldn't be a problem.

Even if the prices of fish have gone down to 1p each - that means that rather than do a mission as the OP desired with a reward of a fish gut, the op has to do a mission - by in large a fissure mission, then sit in trade chat to sell that rubbish, then sit in trade chat to get fish guts.

Making (or in this case having made) something tradeable doesnt solve the root issue.

 

You seem to be missing that this would be far easier for someone to just go catch the fish. It really is not hard.

The root issue here - laziness. People want stuff handed to them. Why do people not expect us to be forced to fish? Why, in a free to play game, should we not have to grind?

PC players were given a 3 day resource booster. Meaning all fish caught were doubled. Even without this, the requirements are fairly low anyway. 

I have 2,500 (give or take) of the lowest generic fish component (5000 or so of the highest). I have not been just fishing, I have done plenty of things too. I have also used masses of these to make archwing charges. 

 

It is simple, people should fish rather than invest their time in complaining about fishing.

Edited October 30, 2017 by krc473

[ZackNeutron]

FYI, Fishing is more faster to get fish components rather than doing bounty with "meh" rewards that take your time too much. Why? Because RNG in bounty is broken and all you get will be common drops.

And don't forget, this game is called WARFRAME, not WARFARM nor WARGRIND.

Adding fish components in bounty rewards table just will make you spend your time grinding for fish components which you can get that in 5 minutes fishing or maybe more.
 

Edited October 30, 2017 by ZackNeutron

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

1 hour ago, Inquizitor said:

Well, i personally like fishing. (But not without Resource booster).

Okay, first of all: you dont have to fish / do the mining. Its not like a MUST-DO, you can live without it too, noone is forcing you.

2nd: I am aware, that ranking up with ostrons requires some fish parts, which are in amounts 1 to maybe 10, so that should not be any problem for experienced player.

3rd: as i said, they are tradeable->for lazy Tenno.

4th: Root issue? Excuse me, but what? Fishing is great, only good non-combat activity that requires patience and little skill. That is all to it, And besides, its not any issue, thing is, you wont ever need the fish parts to complete a story quest or something. Its all just optional part of the game.

5th: They improved fishing several times, baits now lasts longer, Luminos crafting time was reduced...what more can you ppl ask for?

Try to ...enjoy the game for once, instead of pressing 4 as ember and wiping out the entire populations of enemies, geez. (sorry, Xbox user, idk which button it is on controller actually...)

Press 4 to win? What? I rarely use ember (or any 4th ability for that matter) ... Even if I did, how does this have anything to do with the topic at hand?

1 hour ago, ZackNeutron said:

FYI, Fishing is more faster to get fish components rather than doing bounty with "meh" rewards that take your time too much. Why? Because RNG in bounty is broken and all you get will be common drops.

And don't forget, this game is called WARFRAME, not WARFARM nor WARGRIND.

Adding fish components in bounty rewards table just will make you spend your time grinding for fish components which you can get that in 5 minutes fishing or maybe more.
 

You both miss the point - i play warframe for the combat not to sit and stare at water.  I would rather battle for 20 minute than fish for 10.

And enough with the "you dont have to do this" - you don't have to unlock any focus, you don't have to have any frame, and you don't have to play the game at all.  Anyone with two brain cells knows this.  I'm simply stating what attracts me to the game, and what doesnt.

Slow paced fishing and mining don't.  

 

 

[Nirrel]

48 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

Well, i personally like fishing. (But not without Resource booster).

Okay, first of all: you dont have to fish / do the mining. Its not like a MUST-DO, you can live without it too, noone is forcing you.

The fact that you feel like have to use a resource booster to make the system likable is already telling, how bad it is. It is needed for progression in the game, hence yes, you do have to unless you buy it for plat.

52 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

2nd: I am aware, that ranking up with ostrons requires some fish parts, which are in amounts 1 to maybe 10, so that should not be any problem for experienced player.

You don't need to be an experienced player to stand next to a puddle, aim and wait......wait....But you still need the fish to rank up for a fact.

56 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

3rd: as i said, they are tradeable->for lazy Tenno.

Others already explained it why is that wrong on many levels, but you know what? Fair enough...you can buy it. Now make all the resources in game buyable then just to be fair, like orokin cells, argon crystals, polymer bunddles  etc.

59 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

4th: Root issue? Excuse me, but what? Fishing is great, only good non-combat activity that requires patience and little skill. That is all to it, And besides, its not any issue, thing is, you wont ever need the fish parts to complete a story quest or something. Its all just optional part of the game.

No, it's not great. Only because you like it doesn't make it great, it doesn't even make it good. BTW ppl download horde shooters for the combat not staring at water for hours in their limited free time.

What you even mean it's optional part of the game? Fish parts, on several bait grinding level, has a huge impact on your operatore progression and not sure if you noticed but the game is heavily pushes you towards operatore gameplay even in quests, plus they built a whole new system (focus 2.0.) centered around it. Your operatore gear progression is gated behind it, so it's not optional unless you don't want to play the game in the future.

1 hour ago, Inquizitor said:

5th: They improved fishing several times, baits now lasts longer, Luminos crafting time was reduced...what more can you ppl ask for?

They shouldn't have gated content for progression behind it. It should have been optinal as they said it would be. They lied. I don't like that.

 

1 hour ago, Inquizitor said:

Try to ...enjoy the game for once, instead of pressing 4 as ember and wiping out the entire populations of enemies, geez. (sorry, Xbox user, idk which button it is on controller actually...)

Seriously? Since when not liking fishing means to use ember? Even if? What's wrong with that. This game advertize itself as 2ninjas play free" and not "good old fishermen fish for free"...I've downloaded an action game and not a fishing simulator. I've played this game for years and I was totaly enjoying it up until now if not I would have left a long time ago.

Fish to make bait to fish more to make a bait to fish more to do another bait to fish even more...It's just objectively ridicolous, not even a fishing simulatore is so bad....

[Inquizitor]

Just now, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

And enough with the "you dont have to do this" - you don't have to unlock any focus, you don't have to have any frame, and you don't have to play the game at all.  Anyone with two brain cells knows this.  I'm simply stating what attracts me to the game, and what doesnt.

Well, idk what else should i say, but this feature was awaited for some time, and is also a part of the game. Lots of people actually like a feature that doesnt involve endless murder.

Remember conclave? Rarely anyone knows it, or participates in it, hates it and ignores it, yet it is the part of the game, same like Fishing. (But at fishing, you are less likely to ragequit after 10 minutes).

If you have something else that "attracts" you to the game, stick to it then, and ignore the other stuff that you dont like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[nms.]

1 hour ago, krc473 said:

You seem to be missing that this would be far easier for someone to just go catch the fish. It really is not hard.

The root issue here - laziness. People want stuff handed to them. Why do people not expect us to be forced to fish? Why, in a free to play game, should we not have to grind?

PC players were given a 3 day resource booster. Meaning all fish caught were doubled. Even without this, the requirements are fairly low anyway. 

I have 2,500 (give or take) of the lowest generic fish component (5000 or so of the highest). I have not been just fishing, I have done plenty of things too. I have also used masses of these to make archwing charges. 

 

It is simple, people should fish rather than invest their time in complaining about fishing.

Or people can play the game, grind playing the game, you know shooting things, using the warframe, all the mods, using some degree of skill and coordination, which is the point of thread. Not removing fishing and handing them the reward, but remove fishing and replace it with a proper game mode that is actually entertaining to grind to obtain amps and whatever else has 0 relevancy with fishing, and not use a braindead snoozefest made for mmorpg nooblets. Even with the crap rewards, bounties are a far better option than fishing.

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by nms.

[rockscl]

not agreed

[Goodwill]

I came up with a compromise. You can shoot fish. People who like fishing can still collect fish, and the people who like to shoot can shoot fish. Maybe throw in a monster space fish as a raid boss that gives a crud ton of scales and oil.

On topic, I think fishing is fine as is. Doesn't take a lot of time at all to the extent that I never felt like I had to grind it even before they reduced the costs for Archwing Launchers and it's content that will be forgotten about once people have maxed out the Cetus factions. Inversely though, I have no qualms with relegating fishing to something that gives you access to certain cosmetics or just more Ostron standing. Same with mining. I don't mind where it is, but I am not adversely against some of the compromises. Maybe if they added Grineer resource units that you can intercept and take their supplies as an additional way to obtain these materials. On top of being able to purchase the materials from the NPC markets for credits.

Actually, on that topic, nobody gonna comment how you have to use plat to buy materials from the NPCs? That's a bit... heh...

[Retchid]

I have a better idea pay a toll of 10 million credits  + 20 Vauban Chassis to get a pass on fish and be able to buy fish oil for 1000 fish at 100 Nitain per pop.

 

[BlackCoMerc]

Agreed.

Neither fishing nor mining should be mandatory for anything. Not progression. Not Zaws. Nothing.

Either make crates and enemies drop fish parts and mining mats in reasonable number or remove these items as progression requirements.

[BlackCoMerc]

3 hours ago, Inquizitor said:

Well, idk what else should i say, but this feature was awaited for some time, and is also a part of the game. Lots of people actually like a feature that doesnt involve endless murder.

Remember conclave? Rarely anyone knows it, or participates in it, hates it and ignores it, yet it is the part of the game, same like Fishing. (But at fishing, you are less likely to ragequit after 10 minutes).

If you have something else that "attracts" you to the game, stick to it then, and ignore the other stuff that you dont like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You miss the point entirely.

People don't to remove fishing. They just don't it to be REQUIRED. Mining, too.

That's the point of the thread.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

I like fishing (or i did befor the last update)

but I agree.

it should not be forced.

nor should the mineing thing. 

 

sure keep it as part of the grind for gara, thats fine. but for everyhting eles theres mastercar... err rather there should be a way to get it without ish. like fish oil for the archwings.

 

aparently the nerfed fish spawn rate also so there is that.

[Salenstormwing]

On 10/17/2017 at 11:10 AM, Foxbat40 said:

Please add enough fish crafting parts into the Bounty rewards as to give us an alternate means of advancement.

You know what, I like this idea. Just adding FISH to the bounty table instead of stuff I don't need like Endo or Credits or Pressure Point would be so much more useful than those items. Even cheap stuff like 1 or 2 mawfish would be better than not having to get stuff I won't use at all.

I'd love to get lobsters from bounties. Or gems. Ore. Anything. Just not the boring stuff like credits or endo.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

On 10/17/2017 at 4:21 PM, TheHaney said:

As a brand-new player, I came for the space ninjary, not fishing and mining. It's giving me flashbacks to WoW and Minecraft and now I have the shakes. The concept of fishing in a video game is beyond bizarre to me and if actual stuff I will eventually need is locked behind that... it would vex me.

As an old player, one that has been playing for 4 years, there have been two times I have been put off by new content. the first time was the new arch-wing controls came out and the fomorian event happend. the second time is PoE. 

its not the content of PoE that I dislike- in fact I find the fishing rather fun (or did, aparently spawn rates have been nerfed sints last I tryed) but the update has so many isshues and bugs that it has prevented me form being able to grind. 

If I cant grind, I cant play.

the rest of the game isnt like this, and you can more or less ignor the planes as nothing form it is all that amazing outside of it. other then gara.

If I have leanred anyhting over the years that DE has done events and tryed diffrent things its this- people dont like to be "forced" to do things. fishing shouldnt be the only place to get some of these thigns, nor should they be essental to some of the main content that came with PoE.

At this point, I wish they had waited a few months to iron out things. Haveing now bought destiny 2 due to not being able to grind in warframe, I can see they where pushing relese to be able to compet with it. PoE falls flat comapred to desinty 2s open world stuff to the point where I almost cant compare.

we also have to rember that warframe is a free to play game. they have to make money somehow. PoE however somewhat disrupts the nomral systme they follow and makes things way harder to get. yes you cant outright buy - but you can buy most of the mats for plat or thouhgt trading. So to me it looks like they tryed to make another economy by draining the other, and its has borken the bank so to say. rather then a resorce sink, they made a plat sink with rare mats to trade. it will make them money, dont get me wrong, but its not there usual flow.

I will be in Destiny 2 wile things get sorted out. I will be back, but when a bounty glitches out every time, when someone stopes to fish mid mision and it abandones the quest due to it, or when it crashes, I just log off.

 

I encorage you to stick with the game. perhapes skip over PoE for the moment. i still support DE, i hope they do well and all that, but PoE dose not feel finished.

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[Dragonofdarkness13]

... Really?
You know I bet some of you people are the same that complain about thematic reasons for things to exist in this game ( I've seen several 'we're space ninja not fishermen' comments ). We get the Amps from the Quills, part of the Ostron people... We get the Zaws from the Ostron... Their Tech is based on the local materials. You people are literally complaining about Why we need Detonite and Fieldron to make Grineer and Corpus Clan tech. The Ostron Fish for food and crafting material ... SO YOU FISH FOR FOOD AND CRAFTING MATERIAL

[kgabor]

That would only dilute the bounty drop tables even more tho that rewards lots of trash already as is.

Besides fish is really easy to get and doesn't require all that much time investment, just fish an hour or a half from time to time with a Smeeta, even better if you have a booster from Sorties or crates but that's completely optional.

You will get tons of fish that you will likely never have to farm ever again anyways.

[BlackCoMerc]

7 minutes ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

As an old player, one that has been playing for 4 years, there have been two times I have been put off by new content. the first time was the new arch-wing controls came out and the fomorian event happend. the second time is PoE. 

its not the content of PoE that I dislike- in fact I find the fishing rather fun (or did, aparently spawn rates have been nerfed sints last I tryed) but the update has so many isshues and bugs that it has prevented me form being able to grind. 

If I cant grind, I cant play.

the rest of the game isnt like this, and you can more or less ignor the planes as nothing form it is all that amazing outside of it. other then gara.

If I have leanred anyhting over the years that DE has done events and tryed diffrent things its this- people dont like to be "forced" to do things. fishing shouldnt be the only place to get some of these thigns, nor should they be essental to some of the main content that came with PoE.

At this point, I wish they had waited a few months to iron out things. Haveing now bought destiny 2 due to not being able to grind in warframe, I can see they where pushing relese to be able to compet with it. PoE falls flat comapred to desinty 2s open world stuff to the point where I almost cant compare.

we also have to rember that warframe is a free to play game. they have to make money somehow. PoE however somewhat disrupts the nomral systme they follow and makes things way harder to get. yes you cant outright buy - but you can buy most of the mats for plat or thouhgt trading. So to me it looks like they tryed to make another economy by draining the other, and its has borken the bank so to say. rather then a resorce sink, they made a plat sink with rare mats to trade. it will make them money, dont get me wrong, but its not there usual flow.

I will be in Destiny 2 wile things get sorted out. I will be back, but when a bounty glitches out every time, when someone stopes to fish mid mision and it abandones the quest due to it, or when it crashes, I just log off.

 

I encorage you to stick with the game. perhapes skip over PoE for the moment. i still support DE, i hope they do well and all that, but PoE dose not feel finished.

 

First, thanks for this. Now I have it on good authority that the open world of Destiny 2 is worth a look.

Second...your post focuses on a big concern. Of late, the business model in Warframe is infringing on fun. 

I get that DE need to pay investors. And eat. In that order. At the same time, if your first thought at every turn is "how hard can we make this to get by playing" you WILL drive away your players. It's Golden Eggs versus the goose and DE has begun squeezing the goose AWFULLY hard of late.

This started with Nitain. It has no basis in Lore. It's just a Pay to Progress road block to encourage Plat sales.

It continued with relics. Invalidating previous time spent with new relics every Prime release was harsh.

Now, look at tradable fish and the Gara grind.

The Business Model has become very heavy handed in the last year. So heavy I won't support it like this. I'm purposely not buying Gara. I'll just run a bounty and then.

DE needs to take a HARD look at their business model. Maybe sit down with the parent company. 

There's a line a lot of free games eventually cross. I call it "The Break Point" nut it's the point at which the majority of your sound, reasonable customers determine that the grind is so harsh it's simply a waste of their time to even play.

DE isnt there. Yet. But they are headed that way. And once you cross that line, you're left mostly with your hardcore borderline addicts, who pride themselves on NOT paying and instead resolve to grind, like some twisted competition between their patience and the deviousness of devs trying to milk put some cash.

Don't cross that line. You don't want to go down that road.

 

[BlackCoMerc]

4 minutes ago, Dragonofdarkness13 said:

... Really?
You know I bet some of you people are the same that complain about thematic reasons for things to exist in this game ( I've seen several 'we're space ninja not fishermen' comments ). We get the Amps from the Quills, part of the Ostron people... We get the Zaws from the Ostron... Their Tech is based on the local materials. You people are literally complaining about Why we need Detonite and Fieldron to make Grineer and Corpus Clan tech. The Ostron Fish for food and crafting material ... SO YOU FISH FOR FOOD AND CRAFTING MATERIAL

And that's the problem: lots of people don't play action games to fish.

If the Ostrons fish to live they should sell us fish parts. For credits.