Bounties are way too easy at all tiers

[Firetrucksrule]

3 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

the issue is that theres actually no real challenge about those kinds of levels. its all cheese, or you're dead. that can not be accepted as an "endgame" endgame should be challenging, not filled with something that goes well with wine....

Because that argument relies on an at best arbitrary definition of cheese. If utilizing the abilities of a Warframe to survive beyond sortie 3 enemies is cheese then most of the Warframes available are made of cheese. Gara and Volt have a wall or shield that wasn't designed around a health limit. Frost has a bubble that isn't designed around a time limit. If utilizing the differences between those three abilities to decide how best to survive against higher than sortie enemies is cheese then living off of absolutely anything other than shields health and armor is as well. Not to mention utilizing whatever tactic you can for moving to the life support without exposing yourself outside of whatever is keeping you alive often means directly breaking your "cheese". Then there's also the issue that at those levels if you let whatever is buffing your damage drop for so much as 30 seconds at the wrong moment you could end up without enough life support to sustain yourself anymore. When you're dealing with enemies past the two hour mark that's very easy to do. Both the concentration required to manage all the necessary multi tasking and the exhaustion from doing it over such a long time can easily add up to a very taxing experience. You mess up for one second and you're dead, that kind of pressure is a challenge in and of itself. Furthermore the challenge at those levels was literally never just about surviving, it's also about quickly and consistently killing enemies as their levels continue to increase. Lotus' life support capsules won't keep you up on their own, you need to be able to kill and quickly. In that way difficulty continues to scale with their levels. I have trouble believing you've ever faced down enemies over 1000 if you're saying there is no challenge. Just staying that long without making any mistakes is a challenge, let alone being able to kill them. It doesn't matter that they'll both one shot you, level 500 enemies are seriously easy compared to level 1500 enemies and a hell of a lot more offensive strategies will be viable at the lower level.

Of course I will agree if you were specifically mentioning something like Ivara who can loot steal and insta kill literally endlessly on your accusation of cheese. I will concede that content can be done with little challenge because of Ivara. Try taking any other frame on a 3 hour solo on Sedna MOT or Pluto and your strategies will be continually spat back in your face until they're perfect. Then again good luck cheesing your way through the plains missions like that with her with higher enemy scaling. Part of the reason I want endless scaling on the Plains is that the variety of missions on that map would seriously impede any single one strategy for working all the way through.

 

It seems obvious you aren't interested in going up against enemies in the several hundred range. Given the changes to the void you don't have to anymore. I think that's great, less emphasis on endurance runs keeps the game more accessible to more people. If anything I'm happy that the game is accessible to people who don't have the veterans perspective on endurance runs. Why does it bother you if I want to play against those high levels? That's literally the Warframe end game I started on. Multi hour runs in the void for prime parts is what got me hooked on Warframe, it is even to this day the most fun I have in game. It doesn't harm you to not be at the absolute pinnacle of Warframe's PVE world, it doesn't even harm you to be no where close. Why should it bother you if other people want to test the limits of themselves their gear and their frames by pushing to that point?

 

[Sparkyceasar]

If I may, I think it wasn't plains itself that was designed to be difficult for the veteran players, I think that was the Teralyst fight, now while I can understand that the Teralyst is relatively easy if you know what you're doing, as a new design it was bound to have its little quirks, as such, DE is going to add new Eidolons which I imagine will scratch the itch that we veterans have

[Kasa_]

Why you people don't understand that there is no endgame (for now?). When you want to do very high level content you are oftend stuck with a certain build and a certain weapon/team setup, because at high level content most of the weapons are useless. Most people takes their favorite frame and their favorite weapon to have fun, most of them don't want to play a tanky/support frame even if it is needed, because this is boring to them. I did very high level content ONCE i got bored in about 1h because the level of cheese was intense, stuck with a nekros/trinity EV/ maiming strike atterax or orthos with invisibility frame is boring for a lot of player. personally i find bounty 5 challenging enough because i don't want to use overpowered weapons or frames. i went once on a bounty 5 with a fully modded ice chroma and i died in 3 sec because of the 2 tusk bolkor shooting me at pinpoint accuracy non stop in a open, without cover area. I understand that you feel that it is too easy for you but warframe is not meant to be a dark-soul like game. you think terralyst is easy because you found the cheese spot to kill it (ice chroma, volt trinity bless and harrow team setup for example) with the highest tier AMP, but remember, at the beginning you surely didn't do 5 terralyst in one night.

 

I'll tell you what looks like endgame in my point of view, it is to find the cheese that make everything faster and easier. Because a wide majority of vets looks for end game, and when they find it, they look for the way to cheese it, then start to look again for end game content. Personally to challenge myself i don't use overpowered weapons/warframes/mods its more fun and more balanced for me.

 

IT IS JUST MY OPINION THOUGH

[NeithanDiniem]

Why are you thinking something on earth is going to challenge a vet player? It's not intended to be hard for you, it's intended to be hard for new players. The higher level planets would naturally be more of a challenge match. Wait for DW to make more environments and don't try to make the bounties into something intended for your power level.

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

On 21/10/2017 at 10:15 PM, Firetrucksrule said:

Why does it bother you if I want to play against those high levels? That's literally the Warframe end game I started on. Multi hour runs in the void for prime parts is what got me hooked on Warframe, it is even to this day the most fun I have in game. It doesn't harm you to not be at the absolute pinnacle of Warframe's PVE world, it doesn't even harm you to be no where close. Why should it bother you if other people want to test the limits of themselves their gear and their frames by pushing to that point?

From my point of view, "We" honestly couldn't care less what you do with you time, however your main suggestion/rant is about how PoE doesn't offer you "Challenge" and that you expect this to be arranged in some sort of miraculous way.

There is no challenge to be had when you can self-buff yourself to three million finisher damage in less than 5 seconds while being either invisible or stun-locking everyone around you.
We can take a single terrible frame as an example and go on a 2 hours hiatus on how skilled you would need to be in order to survive with it in a open space with levels 500 enemies, but then this argument would be nullified by another frame who can do anything and everything without breaking a sweat.

There's no benefit to putting level 100-500+ enemies in bounties or on a new mission with rewards, it'll only make the grinding more tedious for anyone else that doesn't want to use disgusting tricks and just want to play the game.
You'll call it a new challenge, and I'll stun-lock everything around in a frame that I despise whilst using tricks that are boring and plain just because I'll need those resources that hide behind that survival wall.
( Because you know damn well there's going to be an extra for sortie level survival otherwise people are going to cry for this new mission's uselessness )

So again, "we" don't care whether or not you want to run your mission with enemies that are a thousand levels above yours, but you have to understand that forcing other players into what you believe is the new difficulty is not the way to go.

[z4gara]

Wear a dragon key. There's your added difficulty. I'm not even joking, some of my friends do that when they want the game to feel more difficult.

[Oreades]

31 minutes ago, Vaizri said:

Wear a dragon key. There's your added difficulty. I'm not even joking, some of my friends do that when they want the game to feel more difficult.

On that note it would be kinda cool if you could equip more than one dragon key. 

[Mr.Holyroller]

It would be cool to get like nightmare type  bounties that are all wacky and have like 100+ level enemies. Bring it on DE!

[Buttaface]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 7:31 PM, Lazer166 said:

For one no they did since they had said that POE scales with the amount of players there are if you are looking for a tougher challenge then play in a Squad rather then Solo.

 

There's your answer OP. Too easy for you? Take three carries from recruiting chat who stay just in affinity range and don't do anything otherwise... or just do a pedestrian T4 void fissure defense with a similar setup without using obvious cheese CC (No charm, prime, blind, avalanche, etc.) Get back to us on how "easy" it was.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Buttaface

[Lazer166]

11 hours ago, Buttaface said:

There's your answer OP. Too easy for you? Take three carries from recruiting chat who stay just in affinity range and don't do anything otherwise... or just do a pedestrian T4 void fissure defense with a similar setup without using obvious cheese CC (No charm, prime, blind, avalanche, etc.) Get back to us on how "easy" it was.

he already said that even with 3 other people it's too easy so next time read the replies or don't post at all...

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

On 10/21/2017 at 3:06 AM, Firetrucksrule said:

Many commonly available Frames are capable of soloing any of the available content.

And this is how it should be.

You should never lock exclusive, important game content behind forced multiplayer or high build requirements. That only increases toxicity in the community.

Consider the Cyath machete/polearm Zaw strike. It is available at the first Ostron tier, but it requires 1 Breath of the Eidolon. The only source for BotE is T5 Bounties. If you make T5 bounty something that only veterans/specially made groups/tryhards can get, you are locking a lot of players out of both weapons and mastery for no good reason other than 'I want a challenge'.

I have no problem with putting challenging content in the game. I simply think it should not grant exclusive rewards. If we got some sort of super-challenging mission that dropped a brand-new Set Mod series, lots of players would be upset, even if the mods were useless. However, if you had the same mission, but it rewarded you with a chance of 10k kuva, 10k endo, 500 Mutagen Samples, 2 built Forma, or 1 built Exilus Adapter, everyone would be fine with it, because we have other ways to get that stuff, we would just have to choose between greater challenge or longer grinding.

[Messkoo]

I'm aggree that PoE need some endless mission, a simple excavation, some defenses, etc there is things to do for veteran players who want to do endless mission in PoE.

[(XBOX)weedyodaa]

Well, the bounties shouldn't really be really difficult, since there are still new players coming in.

The fact PoE just came out for Console players will definetly bring new people to the game. They'll be wanting to get their hands on Plains of Eidolon as soon as possible. You shouldn't exactly make it difficult to new players. 

That's what I think, anyways.

[DiabolusUrsus]

On 10/21/2017 at 7:15 PM, Firetrucksrule said:

Because that argument relies on an at best arbitrary definition of cheese. If utilizing the abilities of a Warframe to survive beyond sortie 3 enemies is cheese then most of the Warframes available are made of cheese. Gara and Volt have a wall or shield that wasn't designed around a health limit. Frost has a bubble that isn't designed around a time limit. If utilizing the differences between those three abilities to decide how best to survive against higher than sortie enemies is cheese then living off of absolutely anything other than shields health and armor is as well. Not to mention utilizing whatever tactic you can for moving to the life support without exposing yourself outside of whatever is keeping you alive often means directly breaking your "cheese". Then there's also the issue that at those levels if you let whatever is buffing your damage drop for so much as 30 seconds at the wrong moment you could end up without enough life support to sustain yourself anymore. When you're dealing with enemies past the two hour mark that's very easy to do. Both the concentration required to manage all the necessary multi tasking and the exhaustion from doing it over such a long time can easily add up to a very taxing experience. You mess up for one second and you're dead, that kind of pressure is a challenge in and of itself. Furthermore the challenge at those levels was literally never just about surviving, it's also about quickly and consistently killing enemies as their levels continue to increase. Lotus' life support capsules won't keep you up on their own, you need to be able to kill and quickly. In that way difficulty continues to scale with their levels. I have trouble believing you've ever faced down enemies over 1000 if you're saying there is no challenge. Just staying that long without making any mistakes is a challenge, let alone being able to kill them. It doesn't matter that they'll both one shot you, level 500 enemies are seriously easy compared to level 1500 enemies and a hell of a lot more offensive strategies will be viable at the lower level.

Of course I will agree if you were specifically mentioning something like Ivara who can loot steal and insta kill literally endlessly on your accusation of cheese. I will concede that content can be done with little challenge because of Ivara. Try taking any other frame on a 3 hour solo on Sedna MOT or Pluto and your strategies will be continually spat back in your face until they're perfect. Then again good luck cheesing your way through the plains missions like that with her with higher enemy scaling. Part of the reason I want endless scaling on the Plains is that the variety of missions on that map would seriously impede any single one strategy for working all the way through.

 

It seems obvious you aren't interested in going up against enemies in the several hundred range. Given the changes to the void you don't have to anymore. I think that's great, less emphasis on endurance runs keeps the game more accessible to more people. If anything I'm happy that the game is accessible to people who don't have the veterans perspective on endurance runs. Why does it bother you if I want to play against those high levels? That's literally the Warframe end game I started on. Multi hour runs in the void for prime parts is what got me hooked on Warframe, it is even to this day the most fun I have in game. It doesn't harm you to not be at the absolute pinnacle of Warframe's PVE world, it doesn't even harm you to be no where close. Why should it bother you if other people want to test the limits of themselves their gear and their frames by pushing to that point?

 

Most frames ARE made of cheese.

Cheese is when you completely prevent enemies from fighting back (whether by CC lockdown, impervious shielding, or invisibility). That's not arbitrary; killing enemies that can't fight back isn't a "challenge" no matter how spongy they are.

The energy system is there to stop players from doing that.

The existence of builds that let them effectively ignore that restriction doesn't somehow make it "fair;" it just speaks to DE's inability to balance things effectively.

And I'd counter that your method of play has actually been IMMEASURABLY harmful to players like me. The drive to compete with endlessly scaled enemies has driven power creep at a vastly accelerated rate, people treating endlessly-scaled enemies as legitimate muddles EVERY discussion of game balance, and as a result we are stuck with cheesy enemies like bombards and nullifiers because there's no breathing room for anything more interesting in an instant-death environment.

Warframe's metagame is absolutely out of control, and it is poisonous to the non-meta crowd. It's how we ended up with Trials, and those are just bundles of fun, aren't they?

Even if you can stay reasonable about it, others inevitably ask for better gear and exclusive rewards for being so "hardcore."

Don't make me laugh.

[--CoB--Rooshi]

I am so glad there exists others out there that reciprocate my feelings towards wanting an end-game of some sort. I agree with almost everything the OP said. The problem I think that exists is not that the community can't reach the sort of power that vets can put out, but that most of the community quits before they even get there.

Think of it this way:

1. DE asks the community whether or not they would like higher level content (What people consider high level content I can discuss later)
2. The community says, NO they would NOT like higher level content because they're already busy trying to kill level 60 enemies
3. Those that have stuck around (the veterans of the game) long enough to want higher level content say YES, but ultimately get drowned out in the sea of NOs
4. Eventually after some time, because of the exasperation of never getting what they're looking for in terms of higher level content the veterans end up quiting
5. Because there is no standing portion of veterans in the Warframe community, the number of people supporting the idea of higher level content decreases
6. A portion of the community eventually gets around to becoming veterans and understands the game and wants higher level content, but finds that noone else around them wants it along with them (because of Step 4)
7. Begin from Step 1

While I do agree with alot of the arguments that PoE is a place for lower to mid level players, it still doesn't take away from the argument that in Warframe as a whole, it would be nice to have some sort of end game that isn't infinite scaling on endless missions. Those of us that do those types of missions do them for fun, but some of us are still bummed out that:

• The rewards from the A A B C rotations remain the same despite being 4+ hours in at somewhere like MOT
• Lack of diversity

On the topic of gear check vs. true skill:

At some point in any endless mission, even if your gear is amazing, you're going to end up getting destroyed one way or another. And what you must do to prevent that goes beyond what some would call "Cheezing". No, its not cheezy, its skill. I would go further into this, but Firetrucksrule already covered this.

On 10/21/2017 at 7:19 PM, Firetrucksrule said:

If you don't keep your abilities up in the regular game you get hurt. If you don't keep your abilities up in the end game you get killed right away. Hell you can get killed right away on the recast time with Natural Talent without any user delay a lot of the time. Likewise you can hit the point where you can no longer kill fast enough unless you keep your abilities up. Both points emphasize the importance of killing energy leeches and maintaining energy reserves as well as paying close attention to both your ability timers and your surrounding battlefield. There's also the knowledge requirements you need to keep killing at level 250, 500, 1000, even 2000+. You need to know how to efficiently strip armor and apply damage without being hit. To do all of that at all while you're also dealing with killing all the enemies that come to you without any serious mistake over a 2 hour or longer time period takes skill. To know what to do to survive when you've got a level 500 Bombard or Napalm shooting you in the midst of a high intensity fire fight takes knowledge, to actually pull it off takes skill.

Before you even hit the area of skill, its also knowledge. I, unlike the Original Poster Firetrucksrule, am a team player. I have a group of friends that I play with and we tackle end game content for fun alot of the time. We spend lots of time in the simulacrum testing and I read the wiki to understand the numerical scalings and synergies that can arise between all of the warframes that exist. Where do we go to test this all out in practice? Endless missions ofcourse. If you want to do an endless mission without having a hard time about it up to a certain point you should have a good team comp. Having one of those can easily carry you up to several hours into MOT, and beyond that lies the realm of skill. Good gear isn't what lets you do this sort of stuff, its the entry price for even trying.

I support alot of the ideas put up in this post about ways to make the bounty system harder, and even introducing some sort of endless mission into PoE. However, I'm just going to bide my time and hope that eventually DE realizes that what they've made in PoE is actually quite nice. So much so that if they made another version with scaled up enemies and different scenery and missions, it could be the beginning of something very very wonderful.

[White_Matter]

Can we get a real mission for once ? Like something that has more depth than a puddle ? 

Bounties get old and boring really fast, increasing enemy difficulty won't be a long term solution. 

I think plains need mini bosses, like grustrag or zanuka with unique drops. Also random encounters and more variety of missions. 

Most missions we have right now are just too straightfoward and meaningless. Kill 5 enemies around the prisoner and escort them 20 steps or kill 25 enemies. 

Armored vault and holding an area are essentially the same thing and you do one after the other. Same goes for prisoner and drone escort.

Supply drop thing and forcing the commander out are also completely meaningless.

Capture the target should be removed from the game alltogether unless it is reworked into something interesting.

Man, POE is like a very nice package with nothing inside.

[DiabolusUrsus]

4 hours ago, --CoB--Rooshi said:

I am so glad there exists others out there that reciprocate my feelings towards wanting an end-game of some sort. I agree with almost everything the OP said. The problem I think that exists is not that the community can't reach the sort of power that vets can put out, but that most of the community quits before they even get there.

Think of it this way:

1. DE asks the community whether or not they would like higher level content (What people consider high level content I can discuss later)
2. The community says, NO they would NOT like higher level content because they're already busy trying to kill level 60 enemies
3. Those that have stuck around (the veterans of the game) long enough to want higher level content say YES, but ultimately get drowned out in the sea of NOs
4. Eventually after some time, because of the exasperation of never getting what they're looking for in terms of higher level content the veterans end up quiting
5. Because there is no standing portion of veterans in the Warframe community, the number of people supporting the idea of higher level content decreases
6. A portion of the community eventually gets around to becoming veterans and understands the game and wants higher level content, but finds that noone else around them wants it along with them (because of Step 4)
7. Begin from Step 1

Nope.

You guys got Nightmare mode, Tactical Alerts, and Trials catering to you in spite of the fact that DE has said repeatedly that endless scaling is not something they balance for. You have to make do with simply running long endless missions.

They've done ridiculously high-level content before, and it hasn't exactly been very popular.

4 hours ago, --CoB--Rooshi said:

While I do agree with alot of the arguments that PoE is a place for lower to mid level players, it still doesn't take away from the argument that in Warframe as a whole, it would be nice to have some sort of end game that isn't infinite scaling on endless missions. Those of us that do those types of missions do them for fun, but some of us are still bummed out that:

• The rewards from the A A B C rotations remain the same despite being 4+ hours in at somewhere like MOT
• Lack of diversity

No, no, no, no no. You do not and should not ever get special rewards for doing ridiculously high-level content. If people truly do it just for fun, then hauling in a greater total number of rewards and getting lots of affinity should be enough. There is no good reason to gate ANYTHING behind cheese-level scaling.

4 hours ago, --CoB--Rooshi said:

On the topic of gear check vs. true skill:

At some point in any endless mission, even if your gear is amazing, you're going to end up getting destroyed one way or another. And what you must do to prevent that goes beyond what some would call "Cheezing". No, its not cheezy, its skill. I would go further into this, but Firetrucksrule already covered this.

Before you even hit the area of skill, its also knowledge. I, unlike the Original Poster Firetrucksrule, am a team player. I have a group of friends that I play with and we tackle end game content for fun alot of the time. We spend lots of time in the simulacrum testing and I read the wiki to understand the numerical scalings and synergies that can arise between all of the warframes that exist. Where do we go to test this all out in practice? Endless missions ofcourse. If you want to do an endless mission without having a hard time about it up to a certain point you should have a good team comp. Having one of those can easily carry you up to several hours into MOT, and beyond that lies the realm of skill. Good gear isn't what lets you do this sort of stuff, its the entry price for even trying.

I support alot of the ideas put up in this post about ways to make the bounty system harder, and even introducing some sort of endless mission into PoE. However, I'm just going to bide my time and hope that eventually DE realizes that what they've made in PoE is actually quite nice. So much so that if they made another version with scaled up enemies and different scenery and missions, it could be the beginning of something very very wonderful.

Preposterous.

There is nothing skillful about locking down all possible retaliation. You may get more experienced with higher levels the more you play against them, but when the margin of error simply tests how frequently you can remember to press a number key or watch the duration timer that's not something I'd call "skill." Maybe you develop builds by trial and error, but I guarantee you that most other players simply google an effective build and bandwagon onto it.

This whole "meta-team composition" style of play has caused the problems DE has implemented "fixes" for, and those fixes have had wide-reaching effects on the entirety of the player-base.

I don't mean for this commentary to reflect poorly on any players directly, but Warframe's cheese-based metagaming is a diseased and festering blight on the status quo of the game that we would all be better off excising as soon as possible. Yes, Warframe should have an end-game. NO, that end-game should NOT be "here, learn how to completely disable these enemies that would otherwise one-shot you."

Go ahead and run endless missions all you want. I agree that POE should have some sort of endless content available. But don't try to drag the rest of us into it with you by asking for special rewards or additional mission types on top of what you've already been given. Warframe should be held to a higher standard than "let's see how much health, damage, and cheats we can stack onto these enemies before players throw in the towel."

I've been up to levels 1k+, and those missions were the most boring freakin' experiences I've ever had with this game. Beating on defenseless lootbags with a non-existent margin for error between me and arbitrary death is not my idea of "fun."

[MirageKnight]

Glory-seekers and try-hards should not dictate the balance or difficulty in regular gameplay. Ever. When they do, it only serves to make the gameplay experience for normal players less fun and more of a "hurls controller at monitor and flips table" experience. People play to have fun and / or blow off steam and relieve stress. It's reasonable to think that most players don't consider the threat of being one-hit killed by a mere mook to be fun and stress-relieving.

You want that masochistic "challenge"? Go play Sorties and high level endless missions. But bounties need to be left alone for normal players.

Want a challenge in Bounties? Simple. Leave your cheesy meta builds back on the Orbiter and stop trying to enforce your selfish desires on the rest of us.

 

[Ragingwasabi]

just take all ur bloody mods off. how hard is it jesus.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Ragingwasabi

[Evanescent]

@Firetrucksrule

While I'm not fond of getting one shot from nowhere, I can appreciate OP's hunger for higher hurdles. I have a solution for that but a few words first.

Going blind into an Eidolon fight with my clan was the most amazing experience of my warframe playtime. With just our mote amps and improvised combination, we butted heads with a juggernaut that soaked and dealt immense amounts of punishment. Learning its mechanics and tells while the fight got increasingly frenetic was exhilarating.

My proudest moment came when I found myself down to no energy and no revives with all my squadmates down and Onkko warning us that time was running out. I remember how I threw caution and skill out of the window and waded into the Teralyst's barrage, sinking shot after shot into its head as our hp and ammo whittled down to nothing-until finally I landed the kill, barely alive, screaming like a caveman and high on an adrenaline rush as the colossus that had terrorized us crashed to the ground and the sun splashed the hillsides with gold.

I will cherish that moment forever.  And I realise that to an extent, that rush of overcoming challenge is what you are looking for.

Coming back to earth, it is also true that while I still love fighting Eidolons, it has gotten easier. We know of its tells, we know its weaknesses, and we have optimized our dps and setups to negate and trivialise its offenses and healthbar. We killl the beasts in 5 minute flat with a good team and at most 15 minutes with a sloppy one.

I look back at Bloodborne and Dark souls, and then I realise the rush of overcoming blighttown and Ludwig, Ornstein and Smough, Maria and the Orphan-all of this, only happens once, going in blind. In the NG+ runs I have done they have become easier and easier because I know of the traps and the enemies and my weapons are gemmed out to perfection for me to shred them. 

(I also learned of the bone ash canon)

That's to an extent what is happening here. No matter what combination of hp and dps you put on enemies it becomes a logistics problems that we soon trivialise. You will learn how your opposition works and just optimize your way out of it. In truth you will probably never get the challenge you're craving because warframe isn't that kind of game nor was it designed that way!

But going into that bossfight blind was amazing, with my scrub amp and wacky elemental combination and the closest to the winner's high I'll ever get. I look forward to doing blind runs for every new kind of Eidolon that comes out. Some people rob themselves of this joy by looking up detailed guides beforehand.

All that said, I suggest adding a bonus bounty tier after completing the T5 Bounty. If players wish, they can choose to take it up and go to the way point. If they don't, they can fish or mine or go back to Cetus.

Like you suggest, give higher level enemies and add mission modifiers.

Or, how about this:

I had an idea about bounties with randomised gear. Because you will be detected by your high void signatures, you will have to go into these bounties with gear stolen from grineer airship drops that happen frequently between bounty stages. These drops will contain random grineer weapons and items, and you will have to make the best of what you get to complete the mission. Energy regen will be disabled and orb drops only from successful heavy unit kills. Enemy levels can be locked at 50-80 considering you will be using unmodded weapons. An interesting gimmick would be to have certain enemies like eximii have buffs that players can steal after killing them. Your weapons break after each stage and you have to resupply before starting the next one (i.e. run over a new supply drop lol).

 

 

[Messkoo]

Il y a 10 heures, DiabolusUrsus a dit :

Preposterous.

There is nothing skillful about locking down all possible retaliation. You may get more experienced with higher levels the more you play against them, but when the margin of error simply tests how frequently you can remember to press a number key or watch the duration timer that's not something I'd call "skill." Maybe you develop builds by trial and error, but I guarantee you that most other players simply google an effective build and bandwagon onto it.

This whole "meta-team composition" style of play has caused the problems DE has implemented "fixes" for, and those fixes have had wide-reaching effects on the entirety of the player-base.

I don't mean for this commentary to reflect poorly on any players directly, but Warframe's cheese-based metagaming is a diseased and festering blight on the status quo of the game that we would all be better off excising as soon as possible. Yes, Warframe should have an end-game. NO, that end-game should NOT be "here, learn how to completely disable these enemies that would otherwise one-shot you."

Go ahead and run endless missions all you want. I agree that POE should have some sort of endless content available. But don't try to drag the rest of us into it with you by asking for special rewards or additional mission types on top of what you've already been given. Warframe should be held to a higher standard than "let's see how much health, damage, and cheats we can stack onto these enemies before players throw in the towel."

I've been up to levels 1k+, and those missions were the most boring freakin' experiences I've ever had with this game. Beating on defenseless lootbags with a non-existent margin for error between me and arbitrary death is not my idea of "fun."

I'm agree with you, but what you ask is a total rework of the whole game mechanics and ballance, a great change but  an utopia for me. Too many things to rework, mods, warframe powers, weapons , ennemies stats, AI, etc.

What some people ask, is just more high lvl mission, it's not the best things but will please many veterant players without to much work for DE.

[BlackCoMerc]

As if we needed more proof that Endless missions and the demands for power creep they would engender are bad for the game...

Edited November 15, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[DiabolusUrsus]

5 minutes ago, Messkoo said:

I'm agree with you, but what you ask is a total rework of the whole game mechanics and ballance, a great change but  an utopia for me. Too many things to rework, mods, warframe powers, weapons , ennemies stats, AI, etc.

What some people ask, is just more high lvl mission, it's not the best things but will please many veterant players without to much work for DE.

And if DE can put in the work to add a giant open map space, they can make balance changes. It doesn't all need to happen at once, but certain things need to be done simultaneously (e.g., reduce player damage, enemy damage, and armor scaling).

It can be a gradual change. But I'm sick of tired of Warframe taking the quick-and-dirty approach to everything that matters.

I also question how many people would be happy with stupidly high-level enemies. Look at what happened to raids.

Simply put, it may take a while... But it isn't out of reach provided DE is willing to work for it.

[--CoB--Rooshi]

On 11/14/2017 at 3:33 PM, DiabolusUrsus said:

Warframe's metagame is absolutely out of control, and it is poisonous to the non-meta crowd. It's how we ended up with Trials, and those are just bundles of fun, aren't they?

Honestly I could probably come up with the strangest wonkiest build in existence, and probably still make it work for 99.9% of all content, including doing the raids.

Honestly, raids are probably the most interesting content this game has to offer. Its not even "gated" behind some obscene level of gear needed. It simply requires teamwork, that's it. You could use the vanilla versions of all the frames and if you understood how to do them simply by reading the wiki or watching a video or simply trying over and over, you could definitely be able to complete them. You don't have to be "hardcore". You don't even have to be that knowledgeable at the game. You could take an Mk1 Braton from the start of the game and forma it enough to the point where it could run a raid. And no, not by using some craaaaazy riven or some other really expensive mods, but with normal mods that you could find or buy from Baro.

[fr4gb4ll]

well yes, a few more bounties at higher level and with other rewards would be a nice thing to see - but then we also would need (still) more daily standing too (a few more K's would be ok, and remove the mix-up standing with those from fishes and gems please). also, for such high lvl-bounies, there should be a rank-lock in it s we don't get mr-zeros into a public game that is versus lvl100-150 enemies. i would like to see at least a mr5-lock to public games in night-time missions too for that - player that don't even saw their tenno yet shouldn't be put into an eidolon fight (but ofc, they might need to go out still at night, but they can go fishing alone or in an organized match too).