PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

[Veisper]

il y a 13 minutes, (PS4)DBR87 a dit :

Honestly this sounds fair. So long as she also gets the part of Globe that has X amount of seconds where incoming damage is absorbed into glass health.

No it's not: 

-she can't have more than one

-she cant reinforce / heal it

-she have less armor than frost

-the cost is too heavy

-it will scale on armor + strengh + duration + range

-strengh over 150% is useless on his second ability

-what is the point of a wall with holes in it?

and even if they change it exactly like Frost bubble: we don't need a copy of Frost...

[HawkZA]

Wish I knew this a few days ago, wouldn't have done the long grind for her

[LEGION346]

No. Just no. All the feedback from players about OTHER FRAMES THST NEEDS MORE ATTENTION and Gara gets nerfed. Octavia is broken with her kit. Mesa and Equinox can obliterate anything in a blink of an eye. But Gara who was well-rounded, good and FUN frame,  gets nerfed because DEreasons. Her 4 now is worse frost bubble. 

So if DE has time and resources to nerf Gara, why not nerf Mesa, Equinox, Nidus, Octavia who are much more powerful than Gara and buff Mag (!), Ash(!), PROPERLY buff Volt and Titania. These are just examples. 

"Dynamic Gameplay" = Become stationary and spam 4. So engaging. Much action. Wow. 

What is more, with this change Gara's builds that were already strict, will become even more strict and messy. Gara doesn't need health and armor. Her 2 compensate it. Her 4 scaling with hp and armor is just lazy idea that only proves that DE doesn't learn from mistakes (Old Frost bubble fiasco?! DE do you remember?!) and is in huge dissonance with the community. 

There are frames, weapons, systems that need MORE attention than Gara. 

Oh well, I guess Gara stopped selling well. As someone said, "Can't wait for Khora adjustements in february". It will certainly happen. 

Too bad that FUN in players and DE dictionary means something completely different. 

DE please, look at all those comments in this thread. Majority of players DOESN'T like the change. Take this into consideration. Listen to the community. If you really want to nerf Gara, think about other, more fitting way.

Please. 

[TPtv]

DE. All you can do is nuff. Again, our expectations were right. I do not expect anymore.

[TheKurtiStryke]

12 hours ago, TXFlood said:

Yeah, but Ash IS useless.  How many do you see in a play session?

i see few players playing ash, but because the general  and common thought of the players is " nerf/changes=now is useless and underpower", the only different thing to do with ash, right now is....aim, you have to aim....the same happend with the synoid symulor, everyone now think it's shi* just because De applied some changes, fun fact, now is even funnier and still strong against enemies(it deals a lot of status).

[Taipolar]

I'm okay with this

[Forcereborn]

After I took Gara to the last Mobile Defense sortie with infested, I knew this was going to happen. Of course I'm not happy at all with the decision: I had finally found a new frame that I could bring to a certain type of mission (a very specific type of mission, mind that), but no, I'll have to resort to the usual ones again after the nerf comes.

In my opinion, if DE's problem with the ability is that it's too good against the infested, they should take a different approach: what I would do is make the infested ospreys capable of jumping the wall by changing their flight altitude. This way, the wall would still keep the ground infested at bay, but we would still need to deal with the ospreys. I think it would be a reasonable compromise.

[Taisa_JPN]

(I'm translating it by machine translation, so please forgive my writing, but I am sorry that the amount is too much)
Rather than saying that you would like to adjust the balance, it looks just like you do not like to become unbeatable.
Actually it is not unbeatable, and from the top and bottom as well (from just a bit of the topography with just a bit of the topography) it will invade as much. Even effect time, just throw away everything else and specialize in effect time, it will only endure use.

Instead, you should understand why everyone uses GARA correctly.
It seems to be a reason to say that No. 4 becomes invincible against the lateral direction, but it is not actually the case.
The real reason is that "It is not a game balance that can be prevented if it does not become invincible," I think.
Far from the high level, from the middle level to the earlier, the enemy's attack power and physical strength inflate.
As a reality, if you knock down first, you need to use a limited number of strongest strongest weapons. That's why they all become similar weapons composition. There is no room to bring in your favorite weapons. The annihilation power is too low for the enemy. (I think that it is great to say that most weapons rely too much time on reloading against the speed and quantity of battle, because most weapons are left unused. Carrier is like mandatory It is because the bullet is insufficient against the enemy 's physical quantity and overwhelming LIFE)
If you defend, invincibility or "damage cut" is absolutely necessary. Or LIFE who passed by. Armor will not do anything for defense. It is because Valkyr dies suddenly because it is an ability to raise the armored value, not damage cut (It is strong not if armored value is attached to Valkyr's number 2 but damage is cut, and although number 4 becomes invincible, no annihilation power is present Life is too low if you do not use number 4). The reason why Inaros does not die is that there is no damage cut but because there is "a special LIFE that jumped out" on the armor. (And he can recover LIFE at any time)
(You may think that armor value will be damage cut, but the amount of damage that can be alleviated by granting damage cut and rise in armor value is completely different)
Frost breaks the wall, but it makes sense because it slows down enemies, easily reattaches and maintains the walls. It is a pattern that "protects with LIFE which passed through while reducing the frequency of enemy attacks."
GARA has a damage cut by No. 2 and has meaning since it can be protected with "unbreakable wall" while extending it at No. 4. Although there is no LIFE that passed through, it is enduring use because there is one unique advantage of saying "it will not break".
Does RHINO 's skin have a high level to prevent enemy attacks properly? Is NEZHA 's ring high level to prevent enemy attacks properly? The answer is NO.
That is why it is said that GARA is strong.
If you decide to fix GARA, you can fix it, but you should review it is not the ability of GARA, but put in one option if you do not have one of "super fire power", "damage cut" or "unbeatable" I should notice that it is an inflation of the enemy 's strength, which I can not even do.
If you want to mild the ability of the frame, you must balance the strength of the enemy before it can not be balanced. I think that unpopular frames are not reasons to use and not interesting, because they are only to die if used.
Let's use abilities more busily and fight actively? You can not shoot abilities with just one enemy sucking energy? (In other words, if you mix 2 people, you double it, if you mix 3 people, you will be reduced 3 times.) There are also a lot of enemies to disable Ability? The attack system ability will not be able to beat the enemy at all except for some abilities where the weapon MOD is effective.
Therefore, we will protect with GARA's "Wall that will endure within the time". It will be meaningless when it becomes "unknown whether it will endure within the time." Even if there is one "guy" in the first place, even if one minute of effect time is left, it will be erased in a moment just by being touched.
If you actually use GARA, you know that, if you go to the battlefield, is GARA still busy? It is not a frame saying that it ends when you set No. 4.

I want you to feel that you are fighting with "strong frame", "strong abilities", "strong weapons", not "strong one" or "only enemies that can not withstand use unless it is strong".
It is only momentarily confronting an enemy who is not mild with barely mild power.
If we try to adjust the adjustment of the frame (and weapons) with the capabilities of the other frames, it is effective whether the frame functions effectively against the enemy even if it is balanced between frames It is another matter.
It is not whether GARA No. 4 is strong, but please understand that GARA No. 4 is one of the few abilities that barely can use against the strength of the enemy.
If I inadvertently correct GARA No. 4, I think that what I had barely used until now would be in the same position as unpopular frames and unpopular abilities, making it unusable to use. Even now GARA No. 4 has no critical range in the up and down direction, especially in the downward direction not supplemented by the jump, and some enemy attacks will penetrate the wall. It is not perfect at all.

[Camaroz]

How would you estimate which is 'overpowered'?

You compare it to others? Then nerf it because its better?

WHY NOT JUST BUFF OTHERS? THIS NERF MAKES NO SENSE

Because its too much work to buff the others? or just too lazy to do?

[DarkSkysz]

A bad snowglobe with a heavy energy cost? Why bother playing with her? Another frame going to be forgotten (just like atlas, ash, zephyr, vauban, etc).

[Cipher-Fox]

Again I'm going to say it: if you call for nerfs to player gear, instead of buffs you are only making stuff worse

basically I'm saying the solution is that everything should feel/be op so therefore nothing is....

[Pawkeshup]

Nerf this, nerf that. Nerf nerf nerf.

Can you just not? The ability already functions very differently from Frost. It has some great usability but unlike Frost it has a limited duration and other uses (refreshing defensive boosts, freezing enemies). I don't see Gara breaking anything. It was just different. Now you're likely going to kill her usage, or force everyone into a cookie cutter build that will weaken the rest of her kit.

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

Well back to my old frames lol. She kinda needed it the way it is to stand out honestly. Thanks for the heads up.

[(PSN)hellspeace]

Was playing with my mate and he said:

‘dude gara is so much fun, I hope she’s not getting nerfed’ 

I just said:

’nah don’t worry, they didn’t nerf Octavia, why should they nerf gara?’

and DE is like:

’oh no some people in the internet think the new UNBREAKABLE frame is op, while the rest of the world think it’s fun and good balanced, let’s god damn BREAK the UNBREAKABLE’

[Euphoria]

As much as I hate them nerfing Gara, if they really want to go through with this, might as well just make her MV shrink in size over time somewhat like Limbo cataclysm instead of currently proposed change. Also, I don't get DE's approach of trying to put Gara and Frost at the same level. Each frame accel at one thing while other accel at something else like how Gara has special defensive skill with her 2 while Frost has multiple offensive skill as well as armor stripping skill with his 4.

[(PSN)hellspeace]

Just let gara be gara

[Redeye]

I hate to post feedback on changes before they actually happen and I get to test them but as it is written, it really seems like a very bad idea. As others have said before the wall's invulnerability is the only reason why Gara's 4 is a viable alternative to Frost's 3. By alternative, I mean that they don't offer the same advantages and drawbacks. If this really gets implemented, I certainly hope that health/armor values will be set in a way that we do not have to sacrifice mod slots to make it last more than 1 second against ennemies above level 50.

It has a time limit. You can't recast it without risking what you're defending. You can't stack them. You can't protect yourself from higher ground attacks. Soon it will get a health pool and will be destroyable parts by parts. Hell, maybe we'll even have to recast the whole thing in order to "fix" the missing wall part. I'm trying my best but I fail to see how this is a good change.

 

In my opinion, except the absurd damage scaling bug/exploit and the third ability, her kit was completely fine and I was happy to have something else to take than Frost or nausea-inducing cataclysm-stasis Limbo on Excavation/MD/Defense missions. I was even enjoying playing her on captures so any target that isn't a nullifier gets stuck inside the wall.

 

I would be thankful if this upcoming change could be thought about a bit on your side before it happens, DE.

[Darkuhn]

As mentioned above, the Changes DE plans for the ability aren't good or well designed. Its true the ability is to strong in denying Areals. Defense wise its okay, because you have to recast it alot if you didn't build just for duration.

Here are some changes I would prefer to see happening:

1. Cap the max duration at 30s 

2. Let the wall have HP and take damage from Melee Attacks only, so the infested aren't completely helpless against Gara's 4th Ability. But if the HP drop to 0 the wall Shatters dealing the same DMG as the 2nd Ability for the rest of the duration. If Gara had her 2. Ability active while casting her 4th Ability the damage of the active 2. Is applied instead.

3. If an Active iteration of Gara's 2. Ability moves through the shattered section the Shards are absorbed into the 2. Ability. Ending the damage effect.

4. to start the reforming of a section you can cast Gara's 3rd Ability in the vicinity of the Wall the reforming of a section takes 2s in which all enemys passing through will be coated with Glass like when the Ability is cast. After reforming the section is back to 100% HP.

Also the Wall then absorbs the mirrors as they make contact with the wall each mirror replenishing x %(scaling with strength) of the section it makes contact with.

5. Let the wall be an obstacle for tenno too. Weapons without punch through can't hit anything on the outside. Tenno can't move through the Wall if the section isn't shattered. But tenno can shatter the sections with Melee Attacks(only one melee attack from a tenno is needed).

 

With this Changes Gara's 4th Ability should be more "balanced" it would provide good defense against ranged attacks while being vulnerable to melee attacks. Also its most discussed downside, the open top, could be used to fight enemys outside of it.

And the most important part is, it would have synergy with all of Gara's other Abilitys

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

1 minute ago, Darkuhn said:

As mentioned above, the Changes DE plans for the ability aren't good or well designed. Its true the ability is to strong in denying Areals. Defense wise its okay, because you have to recast it alot if you didn't build just for duration.

Here are some changes I would prefer to see happening:

1. Cap the max duration at 30s 

2. Let the wall have HP and take damage from Melee Attacks only, so the infested aren't completely helpless against Gara's 4th Ability. But if the HP drop to 0 the wall Shatters dealing the same DMG as the 2nd Ability for the rest of the duration. If Gara had her 2. Ability active while casting her 4th Ability the damage of the active 2. Is applied instead.

3. If an Active iteration of Gara's 2. Ability moves through the shattered section the Shards are absorbed into the 2. Ability. Ending the damage effect.

4. to start the reforming of a section you can cast Gara's 3rd Ability in the vicinity of the Wall the reforming of a section takes 2s in which all enemys passing through will be coated with Glass like when the Ability is cast. After reforming the section is back to 100% HP.

Also the Wall then absorbs the mirrors as they make contact with the wall each mirror replenishing x %(scaling with strength) of the section it makes contact with.

5. Let the wall be an obstacle for tenno too. Weapons without punch through can't hit anything on the outside. Tenno can't move through the Wall if the section isn't shattered. But tenno can shatter the sections with Melee Attacks(only one melee attack from a tenno is needed).

 

With this Changes Gara's 4th Ability should be more "balanced" it would provide good defense against ranged attacks while being vulnerable to melee attacks. Also its most discussed downside, the open top, could be used to fight enemys outside of it.

And the most important part is, it would have synergy with all of Gara's other Abilitys

Sorry, but all I see here is "just go back to Frost lol."

 

Her ability is fine how it is. It suffers from a lot of drawbacks already. It requires a lot of upkeep, enemies near the wall can still shoot through it, it's expensive to maintain, it's already fairly weak in any room you can't take full advantage of its downward growth, and even then, any uneven terrain creates weakpoints in its layout. Unlike Frost, I see enemies tagging stuff inside the wall regularly.

 

This was not the ability that needed a nerf. The damage scaling synergy between her 2 and 4 is the only genuinely questionable part of her kit.

[SSI_Seraph]

Gara was perfectly coexisting with Frost but I guess we can't have an alternative (that's not even better) to Frost in endless defence runs. 

Gara needs time to setup her wall, Frost does the same thing without a downtime if he's willing to spam every 3 seconds. And no nerfing Frost too is not the answer, people do actually enjoy that aspect of the game. 

If spetralrage is any standard, we can say hello to starchart snowglobe with a single cast I guess. 

On top of that, people pretending that the damage stacking on splinter will save her are completely wrong imo. How much time did you spend stacking that and do you really think that by the time you'll need that damage enemies are gonna let you get in melee range without killing you even with 90% DR. If anything this useless part of her kit should be nerfed and spectralrage buffed. MV was perfectly fine, it had its drawback and its pros. 

Using her as an alternative to Nova is also meh since vitrifying prevents enemies from getting status procced. 

 

[Arkhenbarn]

22 minutes ago, Redeye said:

I hate to post feedback on changes before they actually happen and I get to test them but as it is written, it really seems like a very bad idea. As others have said before the wall's invulnerability is the only reason why Gara's 4 is a viable alternative to Frost's 3. By alternative, I mean that they don't offer the same advantages and drawbacks. If this really gets implemented, I certainly hope that health/armor values will be set in a way that we do not have to sacrifice mod slots to make it last more than 1 second against ennemies above level 50.

It has a time limit. You can't recast it without risking what you're defending. You can't stack them. You can't protect yourself from higher ground attacks. Soon it will get a health pool and will be destroyable parts by parts. Hell, maybe we'll even have to recast the whole thing in order to "fix" the missing wall part. I'm trying my best but I fail to see how this is a good change.

 

In my opinion, except the absurd damage scaling bug/exploit and the third ability, her kit was completely fine and I was happy to have something else to take than Frost or nausea-inducing cataclysm-stasis Limbo on Excavation/MD/Defense missions. I was even enjoying playing her on captures so any target that isn't a nullifier gets stuck inside the wall.

 

I would be thankful if this upcoming change could be thought about a bit on your side before it happens, DE.

I have to back this up.

What makes me especially concerned is a this thing of "breaking the wall parts by parts". What the point of the defensive ability if it just leaves plenty little holes for enemies to shoot through ?

The ability is time based, but such a change would make any duration meaningless by rendering the wall basically useless after a couple of seconds, which would require to recast. Yes, you can vitrify enemies in range, but that does not make up for all the drawbacks this kind of change would introduce. Don't be surprised everyone is comparing it to Frost's Snow Globe : you plan to introduce its drawbacks while leaving those of current Vitrify. This cannot work, and that is without mentioning Vitrify is Gara's Ultimate ; Snow Globe is not Frost's.

Like Redeye, i usually test before feedback ; but I can already see where this is going before it's even out. Add more thought to this, seriously.

[Darkuhn]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Vagnar:

it's already fairly weak in any room you can't take full advantage of its downward growth, and even then, any uneven terrain creates weakpoints in its layout.

i never had that problem, with bulletjump you can easily take full advantage of the downward growth on any map.

[Dragonofdarkness13]

16 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

The time spent casting the ability as it grows will not affect the health of the wall.

Not what they were asking
Will the Health Scale Based on incoming damage during a short invulnerable period after casting Like snowglobe ~ is what they were asking... ( and it should ... because if it doesn't scale than don't change it over to health )

I Think the slices of the wall that Break as a result of enemy damage should explode into splinters like if you used Her 1st on it 
also the inner range for refreshing Splinter storm should be increased because sometimes it 'misses' when casting M.V.

If M.V. is going to have Health than it needs it's Duration removed ... It's either Duration OR Health .. not both.
 

[Dragonofdarkness13]

15 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Sorry, that was my misinterpretation, no, the health will not be increased by damage absorbed during casting.

Then don't change it ... It already has a Duration that we have to mod for, if the health is COMPLETELY reliant on mods then that means it doesn't Scale and would be erased as soon as cast in super high level missions... So just leave it the way it is. 

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

4 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:

I think he meant in terms of defense. Because as any warframe player should know, Frost will always be king when it comes to defending against onslaughts. Gara's 4 was fine the way it was but now, the main part that worries me is the fact that pieces of her vritrify can now be broken off. Which from my perspective makes it absolutely useless when dealing with the amount of grineer explosions/ corpus onslaught warframe likes to throw at you. 

So all I'm seeing here is vritrify = useless in defense because tell me they aren't making changes to her cast time/energy cost, Vritirfy can be broken apart by enemies so it being re-castable has to be crucial but they aren't doing any changes to cast time, so what now? All this makes Gara is more leaning towards the tank/damage builds and CC with her 1 and 2 as her 3 was sub-par and now they are essentially butchering her 4. 

I guess I'll have to stick with my frost prime then anywho, foolish of me to think there was any alternative to defense king Frost.

Frost is the king because he is the only one that can spawn an aoe globe that is invincible via spamming. (Exploiting the timer and not using its go based properties)

 

That does not mean that his kit is good nor rewarding. This apparoch works for Gara but not frost