PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

[Chroia]

1 hour ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey all, I have edited the main post with some new information. :) Thanks for your feedback Tenno!

Thanks for facilitating, and for the further info  :)

 

21 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

First, the ability will no longer be affected by Duration. Its longevity will be determined solely by its health, or whether or not the player decides to break it with Shattered Lash.
That's an improvement, thanks.
We are also reviewing the wall health values incase further changes are needed.
This is another instance of the perennial 'player stats are static, enemy stats scale' issue.
Giving it # health combined with the 'no invulnerability window, no damage absorption' puts an absolute ceiling on how much fire by what level enemies it can take.
So, if you (plural) insist on doing this this way, decide on a max point (x durability against y seconds of damage from z level enemies of w type), then go into the simulacrum to check the numbers.
Second, when each section of the wall breaks, it will deal AoE damage that will scale with ability Strength Mods
I'll honestly be surprised if this isn't utterly irrelevant.
Between player vs enemy stats, armor scaling and Damage 2.0 multipliers (not to mention enemy damage mitigation methods), it seems to me this'd need to have huge numbers to have any impact, and I don't see that happening.

... In Gara’s case we just didn’t feel it was appropriate to her kit to be able to lock down some maps indefinitely or otherwise.
I get this. Really.
But under the current paradigm (endless content exists, enemy stats don't have an upper limit, Damage 2.0 exists, armor scaling remains as-is, and possibly other factors I'm overlooking atm), this is always going to be an issue.
Once these changes go live, have at ‘em and bring us your thoughts.
Depending on whether a Nullifier dispels 1 segment or the entire wall, the only potential use I see for Gara is 30% str for max %DR, then max range + duration to taste for the CC the petrification offers.
And there are many, much better options for CC.

Bonus Info: We also have some exciting adjustments to our recent Volt changes. As you may recall, we were still actively reviewing the Damage aspect since the day we made the change (Prime Time with Steve explained this!)We have decided to remove the damage cap and raise the damage per second of Discharge, improve its synergy with Shock and we are also halving the energy costs of carrying around Electric Shields. Volt should now be given a bit more protected movement (albeit it with some energy cost), as well as just simply deal more damage overall!
Please keep in mind that armor essentially shuts down electric damage, which will cause a huge disparity between its effect vs. Corpus/Infested and Grineer/Corrupted.

Also, no chance of replacing Speed's 'per distance' drain with a flat increased drain while held?  :'(

Comments inline in red.

[BloodScythe91]

Well well well, lookie here, another nerf... And I JUST FINISHED farming for her too EVER SINCE the start of POE...

Oh well, time to craft her, max her then dump her back in storage where she belongs till primed then...

[TmzOS]

7 minutes ago, mrtouchngo said:

Re: updated changes 

I'm skeptical at best about these Gara changes. Duration actually worked well with Gara because she also wanted lots of duration for her 2, with limited (30%) power - at the cost of range and efficiency. Duration also allowed her to expand her wall for a longer period of time, thus increasing range. However, now you'll want to build lots of power to boost wall health AND duration for Splinter Storm.

Of course, we'll have to wait and see, but I'm not feeling great about the change.

Better power than armor... duration can affect channeling too. Power increase the damage of everything in her kit. Constitution + Augur Message + (Primed) Intensify can keep the duration at "fine" values.

Skills 1 and 4 can instakill many mobs of the star chart, the problem is... sorties and endless missions (sometimes I think DE don't test things like "damage resistance vs 10x bombards lv 300").

[Drag0nChaser]

Base HP armor needs to be high... i dont want the skill to become a spammable like frost stacking globes.
Most importantly to consider: Gara has a skill that increases her durability... do not forget that Frost doesnt have this, meaning Gara will not benefit highly from armor mods etc. herself... this means the wall strength will need to be again considerably higher, i dont intend cramming in armor mods in an already tight space while she has an armor to protect herself.

 

Bit salty admitted cuzz shes my favorite, but i completely understand the decision and fully support it if above is taken into consideration.

Thank you for your hard work.

[Oranji]

22 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

In Gara’s case we just didn’t feel it was appropriate to her kit to be able to lock down some maps indefinitely or otherwise.

This augment says hello.


 

[(PSN)KitsuneButai]

Pretty upsetting change... although this may be a tad "OP" in a regular mission, in the POE you have the air to worry about... It's not as secure as snow globe. So now an ultimate ability, which in plains is not hard to counter with all the jet packs and ships, has to worry about all around base damage from troops on the ground as well. So now Gara will allow Frost to come back and be more relevant since his is not an ult and can cover air as well... while hers is her ultimate ability.

[S.Faiz]

You guys surely go to great  length every then and now to make players not to play your game.

[TmzOS]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)FoxBiggBoss said:

Pretty upsetting change... although this may be a tad "OP" in a regular mission, in the POE you have the air to worry about... It's not as secure as snow globe. So now an ultimate ability, which in plains is not hard to counter with all the jet packs and ships, has to worry about all around base damage from troops on the ground as well. So now Gara will allow Frost to come back and be more relevant since his is not an ult and can cover air as well... while hers is her ultimate ability.

Fun fact: Gara is the "warframe of PoE".

[Veisper]

This totally broke the synergie between her 2 and 4:

-The skill 2 need duration but not too much power strengh, and you don't need armor because you will buff yourself with 90% less damage

-The skill 4 d'ont need duration, armor base (this is a joke gara have 125 armor), need many power strengh because of the armor issue

 

So the 4 will be weaker than the frost globe, if you don't build duration, you will spam the 4 to keep the 2 up, in this case what is the point of making it breakable if you are going to spam it anyway, so what is the point to build armor and power strengh?

The 4 obviously will not scale well because if it does It may be too strong and it will be bad because it's why "we need a change" in the first place. 

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

22 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Bonus Info: We also have some exciting adjustments to our recent Volt changes. As you may recall, we were still actively reviewing the Damage aspect since the day we made the change (Prime Time with Steve explained this!)We have decided to remove the damage cap and raise the damage per second of Discharge, improve its synergy with Shock and we are also halving the energy costs of carrying around Electric Shields. Volt should now be given a bit more protected movement (albeit it with some energy cost), as well as just simply deal more damage overall! 

Wait, so you nerf Gara's wall but then buff Volt to do the same exact thing as Gara was doing while also passively killing things while at it? Now Gara's nerf just sounds silly.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

22 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

In Gara’s case we just didn’t feel it was appropriate to her kit to be able to lock down some maps indefinitely or otherwise.

Define 'some maps', DE. Because if you are specifically talking about Hydron and Akkad, then this is just another Vivergate. And I don't think you want another Vivergate.

Also, there are a number of frames that can lock down these maps even more effectively. The only problem with those abilities is the fact that they tend to limit other players' involvement (Sound Quake, Cataclysm, Molecular Prime, etc.). Do you really want to push your players into trolling each other because it is what's most efficient?

[(PSN)KitsuneButai]

2 minutes ago, TmzOS said:

Fun fact: Gara is the "warframe of PoE".

I know right, and with end game enemies being able to one shot everything including a max strength armor snow globe, now they can one shot her ability which was already vulnerable through air... we all know this game doesn't have proper scaling for the enemies but now another warfare will have another useless ability because you can just bring frost again

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

And seriously yeah.

 

Why hasn't Nova, Banshee, FROST, Limbo etc all been nerfed into the ground too? Is it because you know that backlash would be severe? Better to stick to new frames so our meta never changes!

 

This is seriously a bad call. I'm done posting about it, but the moment these go live I'm not giving any feedback, because we've already given you our feedback. I'm selling her for credits and won't be investing in new frames going forward. I'll stick to the clear fan favorites till I'm bored of the game.

[3thereal]

22 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Power design is a reciprocal process and we simply can’t account for every possible combination of mods, situational use, and play styles in our designs,

@[DE]Aidan  I completely agree with you guys here. You can't test every scenario. However I would suggest you guys do a Min/Max test on each ability (especially on a new frame) on a couple of maps at whatever enemy level you guys normally balance around (I think you guys usually shoot for level 40-60 enemies). Here is an expanded matrix:

 

PoE Tileset (Due to it's open nature and huge ranges)-

Max Range

Max Strength

Max Duration

Standard Range, Strength, Duration

 

 

Large Tileset (Try Corpus Ice Map/large defense map)-

Max Range 

Max Strength

Max Duration

Standard Range, Strength, Duration

 

 

Small Tileset (Hydron comes to mind)-

Max Range

Max Strength

Max Duration

Standard Range, Strength, Duration

 

 

 

If you guys have extra time try using abilities in a medium size map's hallways like corpus gas planet tileset and/or Grineer galleon. This should give you guys a good sample size of how the frame can be built.

[Serenna187]

A defense oriented frame works as intended and performs well?! *gasp* can't have that.RIP Gara,was nice knowing ya...seriously though..this nerf is pointless and destroys what little use she has, aka tanking and d e f e n d i n g

[RahuHordika]

I must make a comment on Volt.

While the overall changes seems good, if we must have a drain while holding the shield (Which I think it’s still unnecessary between slowdown, secondary only AND a timer) can we at least switch it drain over distance to drain over time? Volt is a warframe that can cover long distances very quickly and even has a form of synergy that encourages the use of speed and the riot shield, so it just feels rather detrimental that the cost punishes one of the main features on Volt specifically.

[Ragingwasabi]

1 hour ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey all, I have edited the main post with some new information. :) Thanks for your feedback Tenno!

the changes sound really good now, especially for volt. now im excited!

[(PSN)KitsuneButai]

This change is highly unwelcome by many on the forums, and if you guys continue to make warframes identical to a sense there's no point in having multiple frames cause they're all the same, or continuously make frames in which have an ability or two that are useless I will not longer continue to support this game. POE the biggest update ever now has yet another ability that isn't supported. Bad enough ships and missiles come flying through the top of the ult now they can just destroy it because you know the enemies can one shot anything end game... no more use for Gara just continue bringing frost the only real "great" defense frame that has been used forever now... great back to globing. 

[weirdee]

Hey, if you guys are going ahead with the proposal, could you add one more thing? Make it so that using Shattered Lash's quick jab (pressing 1 as opposed to holding 1) pops only the segment of the wall that it's hitting, instead of all of them, but keep the wide slice's ability to smash all of them. You can keep the damage from smashing the wall the same amount because a smaller break would make a pie shaped radial explosion instead of a ring shaped AoE. Thanks.

EDIT: Hey, I came up with another idea. If you're gonna make the wall that dynamic, make it so that nullifiers only dispel the parts of the wall they touch, but not the others.

[Trizion]

While the updated changes are a bit better they still are pretty much lacking and most people who have farmed for/bought Gara will feel extremely let down by these changes because her ultimate already has so many ways to bypass it as is. All this is going to do is make people stick with the current meta with Frost and Limbo, as a Frost Main myself I am sick of seeing Frost players in pubs who don't know what they're doing. 

Her ultimate in the current form doesn't really need many changes to it currently except make it expand both UP and DOWN when you cast it so you don't have to bullet jump to cast it and fixing glitching enemies when they get caught up in it, but if you insist on changing it so much then it needs a really high base health and perhaps make it so that when a piece of the wall shatters nearby enemies in a 1 ~ 3m radius get a Slash proc or something of that nature.

[vylexes]

So what you are saying is go back to playing Frost ok got it thanks :).

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, Trizion said:

While the updated changes are a bit better they still are pretty much lacking and most people who have farmed for/bought Gara will feel extremely let down by these changes because her ultimate already has so many ways to bypass it as is. All this is going to do is make people stick with the current meta with Frost and Limbo, as a Frost Main myself I am sick of seeing Frost players in pubs who don't know what they're doing. 

Her ultimate in the current form doesn't really need many changes to it currently except make it expand both UP and DOWN when you cast it so you don't have to bullet jump to cast it and fixing glitching enemies when they get caught up in it, but if you insist on changing it so much then it needs a really high base health and perhaps make it so that when a piece of the wall shatters nearby enemies in a 1 ~ 3m radius get a Slash proc or something of that nature.

Agreed entirely

[Worldbrand]

I look forward to trying out these changes in the game. In the meantime, thank you for keeping your ears open to us!

[Serenna187]

It still amazes me how insanely fast DE jumps when its about nerfing something when it performs actually well,but takes ages to fix or buff *looks at mag and octavia's client side bug*

[kowalsky386]

Do DE can read Feedback or wtf!? WE DONT WANT ANY CHANGE, ITS FINE AS IT IS! ffs