Problems with Banshee, but not Limbo or Ember?

[Hyohakusha]

After the last devstream, we were told that Banshee's soundquake is getting a rework, as it's being abused and doesn't really fit in with the squad based nature of Warframe. Yet despite countless threads over Limbo's rework and Ember in general, quake's the first one on the list. I'm hoping its not the usual "make it so bad no one uses it" "rework", but I'm also wondering how Ember, a frame you will routinely see doing nothing more than afk'ing on the defense pod, or Limbo, who will most likely be left alone on that defense pod once everyone else leaves, still haven't been addressed by DE. Poor Limbo suffers from a design that destroys team cohesion, and Ember's far more abused for afk'ing than Banshee.

The problem, however, is that Banshee and Ember are used to combat the completely unreasonable focus grind, which never did get that buff that it was supposed to get. And that completely unreasonable grind is also the reason that people end up hating the operator, as you have to put in a ridiculous amount of time to unlock their "buffed" focus powers.

There are already a bunch of threads addressing all of those issues, yet the response seems to be to nerf the ways people combat things like focus grind. If focus grind was reasonable, would there be as many Banshee farms on Senda? If Ember got scaling damage and damage reduction at the cost of range, would people actually engage enemies with her? If Limbo didn't disrupt the teams ability to shoot and interact with the environment, would he get as much hate? I wonder. 

[Aleksi134]

Well they talked about focus changes last time in their dev workshop after that nothing much. They said the rest would come soon. <.<

 

 

[rune_me]

Quake Banshee was way worse than Limbo and Ember. I don't play Limbo, but don't mind having him in a team if its for the right mission. Ember is usually only brought along in low level missions that everyone just wants to be done with quickly, like exterminate fissures.

Quake Banshee however is just annoying and reason enough to leave a team. People only bring her in defence missions and she slows everything down and makes it take twice as long as it otherwise would as you have to just stand there and wait for Banshee to run out of energy, or you run out to every corner of the map to kill enemies and thus miss out on the affinity sharing.

I actually do hope they give it a "so-bad-it-becomes-useless" nerf. I mean I play Banshee all the time, but I have never ever used Resonating Quake. It's just a dumb ability. Sonar is amazing and still the best teamwide damage buff in the game. And Savage Silence Banshee is fun as hell to play.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

Ember only has that one ability. They already reworked Limbo not too long ago. Banshee is a monster even without Sound Quake. I know. Her other abilities are actually good. So surprising.

[aligatorno]

Quake Banshee can afk farm almost every defense map with no effort. Limbo can't do anything close to it because he can't kill efficiently with his cataclysm at higher levels

[Zeclem]

iirc theyre not reworking her ability, theyre reworking its augment. and it had it coming for ages. unlike ember, banshee's resonating quake does not stop scaling in damage, and limbo is only bad when the user is flat out trolling. if the user is not a troll, hes an amazing team player.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Just now, Zeclem said:

iirc theyre not reworking her ability, theyre reworking its augment. and it had it coming for ages. unlike ember, banshee's resonating quake does not stop scaling in damage, and limbo is only bad when the user is flat out trolling. if the user is not a troll, hes an amazing team player.

The scaling damage stops at 20 stacks.

If you knew how to build for Resonating Quake, mixing in a balance of range, Power Strength, and efficiency/duration for the toggle element, you capitalized on your kill potential. 

[Zeclem]

Just now, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

The scaling damage stops at 20 stacks.

If you knew how to build for Resonating Quake, mixing in a balance of range, Power Strength, and efficiency/duration for the toggle element, you capitalized on your kill potential. 

what i meant when i said "scaling" is that it does not start sucking when enemies get to level 40.

[Shifty_Shuffler]

16 minutes ago, Hyohakusha said:

There are already a bunch of threads addressing all of those issues, yet the response seems to be to nerf the ways people combat things like focus grind. If focus grind was reasonable, would there be as many Banshee farms on Senda?

The problem is that the other 3 members of your team have nothing to do making it a pretty selfish ability and people won't run with her solo as the spawn rates are lower. I welcome this change/nerf, though I hope that they make it into a more team orientated ability like sonar, i don't know, maybe it reduces enemy armour or boosts team mates damage/crit or status, anything would be better than what we have now.

I would say other frames need looking at too. Nova used to get a lot of hate years ago as she sucked all the fun out of the game for other players too, now her 4th ability is still useful and much more team oriented.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

The only real the only real problem I had with quake Banshee was it slows down my sortie so much...  Sortie 3 defense and you get a resonating Quake Banshee that just wants to Quake for the next hour nope abort.    it's fairly low damage it just takes up so much room she pins everything out there spawn points that makes it just annoying for everyone.

 

   I've been playing Warframe for quite some time I've never been Pro any nerfs however this one needed to happen.   it is the only setup that when I see it I'll just abort, it's not worth playing that way

[Drasiel]

On primetime last night they said that other Warframe's are also being adjusted and there will be a dev workshop posted about it today that is so far 8 pages of info. Before assuming limbo and ember won't be touched we should probably wait to see that workshop.

[8r8kSpider]

So many people complaining about an easy win, like, seriously? I completely agree that it can take a while, but if it bothers you that much, go to the spawns and kill the enemies. A good Resonating Quake Banshee actually pauses the ability to let enemies get in closer, and to save herself on efficiency. Nerfing focus farming tools isn't what this game needs, it needs *less grind*.

People complaining about Resonating Quake are complaining about a symptom of a problem, and not the *actual* problem. Nerfing Banshee won't make that problem go away, and, frankly, Ember's only useful for CC at anything above level 40, the poor thing's been through enough, leave her be.

If anything Ember should have a buff so she can actually do properly scaling damage again, instead of being a simple CC machine.

[Tengetsu96]

Hope Sound Quake does get reworked, standing in one place getting slow kills is boring for the user and the team.

Its the same case with World on Fire, but at the very least its more interactive.

Limbo is definitely the worst case of ruining squads - players can outright slow down/remove you from the mission. The frame itself gives too much power to a regular player - If a Limbo user felt like it, they could just spam Banish and keep you in the rift even after you leave or they could use Stasis and force you to use your Melee weapon/waste ammo breaking it.

The abilities themselves don't need a major game-changing rework, minor adjustments could make them much more team-friendly

[FashionFrame]

To those that complain that Banshee's quake makes games like mobile defense and interception boring for fellow squad members, just add radar mods to her. I do this, and now people can go find targets on the radar, get their lust for kills satisfied and I can still stun the objective or letters without there being a risk. Of course I do warn people they are subject to getting damaged or even killed if they go beyond my quake boundaries hehe

[taiiat]

6 minutes ago, 8r8kSpider said:

People complaining about Resonating Quake are complaining about a symptom of a problem, and not the *actual* problem.

no, the Augment and the Ability itself to a lesser degree, is also a problem. they are symptoms of each other if you must insist the logic. Resonating Quake is literally an AFK'ing Augment, it has no use outside of that.
that it's also used for AFKFarming is a separate matter that happens as collateral to hopefully resolving that an Augment that was added to the game supports and encourages idling Gameplay when Digital Extremes regularly says they don't want that.

 

any Ability that has no use in active Gameplay is a problem regardless of how or if people use it for something.

[Magicfingers]

the only sensible thing to do is to just let banshee run with other banshees and all use sound quake at the same time

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Well since Banshee is being merged perhaps I'll begin complaining about Limbo as well. I have having my weapons turned off because someone wants to make range and duration on a mobile defense.

[Pizzarugi]

And here I am pondering how soundquake is getting reworked on a frame I hardly see people play with, meanwhile "press 4 to win" Mesa is a far more popular pick and kills enemies much more effectively yet isn't getting looked at again.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Well since Banshee is being merged perhaps I'll begin complaining about Limbo as well. I have having my weapons turned off because someone wants to make range and duration on a mobile defense.

That's not the Limbo player's fault, that's Limbo and his unaddressed troll potential. People should be allowed to make range+duration builds for him, but his rift mechanics and stasis make that detrimental. Address those issues without changing the kit at all, and everything will be just fine.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

4 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Address those issues without changing the kit at all, and everything will be just fine.

So freeze all enemies in the map and allow players to shoot?

There needs to be some sort of balance. Those skills need to be reevaluated or Limbo needs his initial Alpha rework ideas where the cataclysm collapses if he holds too many people.

[CryoSpecter]

The issues with AFK resonating quake focus farming are: 1. It's not as efficient as several other methods. 2. It drags out the mission. 3. It forces other player out of each other's affinity range.

The issues you brought up with Limbo and Ember in reality are moot point. Limbo cannot complete a defense mission without killing enemies, which his abilities cannot really do. Therefore, any issues with Limbo players on a defense really comes down to them not knowing how to play as Limbo, and not an issue with Limbo himself. Ember's 4 is actually much weaker by itself for focus farming, and actively requires Ember to be using her 2 in order to make sure the enemies are actually dying. Not to mention the ability can only target 5 enemies at a time, so it's nowhere near as stunlocking as Resonating Quake.

[Pizzarugi]

1 minute ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

So freeze all enemies in the map and allow players to shoot?

There needs to be some sort of balance. Those skills need to be reevaluated or Limbo needs his initial Alpha rework ideas where the cataclysm collapses if he holds too many people.

Well, I did propose an idea almost a year ago about how to address these issues without drastically changing his kit.

[rune_me]

8 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

And here I am pondering how soundquake is getting reworked on a frame I hardly see people play with, meanwhile "press 4 to win" Mesa is a far more popular pick and kills enemies much more effectively yet isn't getting looked at again.

You hardly see it? I see it in every other defense mission I play. Much more than I see Mesa.

[Railgun]

Just now, rune_me said:

You hardly see it? I see it in every other defense mission I play. Much more than I see Mesa.

So do I. I believe players choose Banshee over Mesa for most defenses is because with Mesa you actually have to see the enemy to shoot them. With Banshee you really can just quake and kill them as soon as they spawn

[Cloud]

Banshee soundquake is a skill which kills your and other gameplay. There is nothing fun to standing still and watch enemies dancing to their death.

DE are changing every skill which trivialize your partecipation in the gameplay, and while ember and limbo suffer more or less of this problem too, they permit to the player to have an active partecipation in their execution, SQ does not.

[Mover-NeRo]

Well Quake banshee and limbo have smt in common. They can be annoying when used incorrectly.

You dont bring them to Def missions. You use them in timed missions like Mobile def or Interception...where its not about kills but about CC.

But to the quake rework. I agree..just sitting there is kinda boring. Maybe a deployable sound mine or other device to leave you mobile.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Mover-NeRo