Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

Neightrix · February 2, 2018

Ember

Builds without Overextended will see World on Fire being reduced to 13m or less, almost within Primed Reach whip and polearm range of 10m. Would a better alternative be to lower the damage/status at max range and and amp it closer to Ember? I've heard Ember used to have an ability called Overheat that added to her survivability. Perhaps it could be good to bring back elements of that ability if Ember may be playing closer to enemies?

Mag

I don't see how the proposed changes will help Mag defensively in a definitive way. Shields are already weaker than health and can be ignored by toxin and slash procs. What Mag really needs is to have those damage types moved to her shields instead, just like capture targets, either by making that her passive or changing how warframes receive that damage as a whole.

I'd really love to see the Polarize travel completely removed, as it seemed to be an unnecessary nerf. It would also be great if Polarize granted temporary damage reduction to shields, starting very high and falling over time - that way her shield restoration is more significant, and it would give an alternative reason to build for duration. On top of that, Polarize is a gigantic eye sore on night maps, especially the plains where bright energy colors can severely obscure player vision, so removing the travel over time and giving it a base range would remove that issue entirely.

Zephyr

Please, please, please make Dive Bomb a quick <hold> option if it will be retaining its vertical-only movement. Losing the ability to Tail Wind in a downwards direction would be a restriction to mobility. Also worth noting, Excalibur (Slash Dash) is better at flying than Zephyr. You may want to look at increasing the speed of Tail Wind and/or adding a lot of post-cast momentum.

EDIT: Additional implications with the perceived need to reduce World on Fire's range:

To me, the bigger issue is whether players with full Ember builds (or any frame for that matter) should be forced to play at less than level 30. I see this as mismatched players being sent to the same missions. It's just as boring for an experience/efficient player being sent to a level 5-10 fissure as it is for their teammates who never get to see a single enemy. I don't believing nerfing Ember or any particular frame can change this in the grand scheme. As Reb accurately pointed out on stream, these are cases where players stop having fun.

I see the implication of overhauling how matchmaking works - integrating the ability to choose difficulty in association with choosing reward tables. And if you go that far, it raises the potential option of allowing players to experience the majority of tilesets at a difficulty appropriate for them, which is not currently possible. The mission type and tileset might have to be randomized for matchmaking to work in this case, and there would have to be enough incentive to use this feature so it becomes better than optimized affinity/focus/relic farms. Bounties are somewhat similar to this concept, where multiple objectives are possible, and lower level bounties are not worth the time once you've progressed enough. Obviously, this is a huge can of worms without a simple solution, and I certainly don't have all the answers, but this is my take away from the discussion about what leads to boredom in Warframe.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Neightrix

Jabett · February 2, 2018

Sorry for the third comment but could you change the 3 animation on zephyr to make her float so she is an actual flier? Also please fix aviator not working on titania in archwing mode

Antiphoton · February 2, 2018

I love seeing you tweaking this stuff, it was long overdue and I appreciate it.

However, as mentioned before... Equinox.

YES, I know, she's powerful. But in the op was mentioned a key question: 'is this fun?'

Equinox is a perfect example of "anti synergy". She is among the frames with the highest number of abilities, but at the same time, every ability used by her is counter productive or has a negative effect on another ability. I guess that when you first designed her you expected her gameplay to resemble the cycles of the sun and the moon, therefore the decaying buffs of her metamorphosis. But that is not fun. I would love to see those buffs nerfed by half, but make them permanent to each form, for example.

In summary, Equinox is considered powerful because she can do the following roles, but all of them come with very expensive cons:

- Sleep spammer: focused on efficiency, range and duration at the cost of power strength. You have one of the best CCs in the game, but you spend the whole mission pressing only one button. The negative power strength makes your 3rd ability do practically nothing, and you only stay in one form.

- Power strength buffer: focused on efficiency and power strength. You just activate your 3 and stay close to your allies. Switching forms makes you lose the bonus from the augment.

- Pacify slow: focused on power strength and range. Very good CC, excruciatingly painful buildup. Besides the fact that almost nobody likes this because Nova can do the same with a fraction of the compromise, it permanently locks you in night form. If you build around this, you practically won't use any other ability during the mission. And losing the built up slow because of stuff like nullifiers is one of the biggest frustrations I've experienced in this game.

- Nuker: focused on range and efficiency. One of the best scaling damage abilities in the game, but still, it makes your 3rd ability useless because of the low power strength, and locks you in one form.

It has been asked many times, and I will insist: PLEASE, at the very least, make the built up values (both for the 3rd ability augment and for the 4th ability) be converted to their respective forms when using metamorphosis. It won't make her OP, there are plenty of frames way more OP than that. But it will make her FUN. And remove some of the frustrations her kit causes. And give us more choice about how we want to engage enemies. And create synergy instead of locking us into heavily min-maxed builds.

Wiz3rd · February 2, 2018

Banshee changes I can live with, Atlas rework seems really forced, but Ember?

Ember got obliterated. Above lvl 30 you're not using her for damage, period.

I always run Ember with max range for CC + more Condition Overload damage but now the range is way lower and energy costs higher.

I'm going to be blunt, I see nothing good coming from these 'tweaks'.

Dusteon · February 2, 2018

Ash: Bladestorm is better. Kind of wish they reverted the nerfs they did when they first 'revisited' him but he's ok.

Atlas: Punch damage to petrified enemies up. Contact Radius for punch up. Punching petrified enemies gives minor health or armor. A bunch of tweaks to the skills you don't use and still won't use because they are slow, clunky, and don't scale.

Banshee: You can now place multiple 4's down at once. 'nerfed'.

Chroma: You can now walk freely and bulletjump about while using 1, and 1 benefit's from his 3's damage buff. 1 still not worth ever using due to terrible damage and locking out of weapons. 3 nerfed, then nerfed again. Now can benefit teammates in range, but the range is terrible and require Chroma give up Narrow Minded to ever be used.

Ember: Gutted at her one niche, in return for still being bad at everything else. 2x damage, 2x energy cost, and 1/2 range doesn't make her scale, just makes her non viable for the one thing she was good at (easy clearing of low level missions).

Gara: Wall health scales based on health + shields of enemies it glasses. Ok, but only really relevant if there are enemies in melee range or waddling nearby so that you can glass them and keep the objective safe. Not bad but not particularly great either.

Mag: Polarize scales better. Crush gives shields, although it still does F*** all damage and CC and freezes mag for 2 seconds to cast.

Volt: Damage up, damage cap gone, damage + stun diminish with range.

Zephyr: 1 can allow hovering, cast downwards does Dive Bomb. 2 is a ragdoll CC that can be cast on 4 to increase the tornado's size. 4 can have the closest tornado steered, tornados capture enemies instead of launch them, and tornados can be shot to deal that damage to all enemies inside.

Not really excited for most of these changes to be honest. Most of these changes do nothing (Spectral Scream lets you move more, but you still won't cast it) or gut the frame (Ember still doesn't scale and now her range requires her cancelling and recasting 4 every ~6-8 seconds). Happy to see the Zephyr changes which at least look decent, not looking forward to any of the other changes except Volt's.

Medrikath · February 2, 2018

just what part of ARMOR in "Vex Armor" means an aura???

ADDgamer45 · February 2, 2018

I'm begining to see all the people who don't play ember rejoice and all the players that have either actively tried to take ember into late game or actively play ember cringe.

(PSN)Frost_Nephilim · February 2, 2018

Sounds too op maybe?

Also might as well use valkyr know?

Edited February 2, 2018 by (PS4)Ghost--00--

(PSN)Vexx757 · February 2, 2018

Because people are blinded by “send clones to kill” people don`t see that ash`s bs is still a problem.

Things wrong with Ash`s bladestorm

· He can`t use bs in a team because other players kill the marked targets e.g ember, mirage with simulor, banshee etc.

· The animation is shown for every enemy marked red. One enemy mark = 1 sec 30 enemies marked = 30 secs which means bs is too long. Before ash`s clones killed with him shortening bs`s animation now 1^st mark is him doing it which makes bs way too long.

· Activating bs is slow because of the two stages.

· When using bs without a melee weapon is even slower to use before the change.

· It`s harder to activate bs on a controller than on PC.

· One enemy mark = 15 energy being invisible = 10 firstly it`s energy consuming and secondly what’s the point of watching the animation if I can`t see myself pulling off sick moves.

· Weapons can kill better than him e.g syndicate procs (which for a damage dealing warframe is VERY BAD)

· He can`t kill in a AOE anymore (can`t kill enemies behind walls) like embers 4^th ability, banchee`s 4^th etc.

· Because enemy bodies disappear when ash uses bs nekros can`t desecrate the bodies.

The corrected way to fix bladestorm is to keep the old bs but with small changes;

· Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

· Make bs able to kill as many enemies that are within the radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

· If players don’t want to watch the animation they can press 4 again to jump out of it and the clones will continue killing while Ash kills other enemies. So the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not.

Bs has three stages; 1^st stage activates bs, 2^nd stage makes you leave the animation and the 3^rd stage makes you to be able to cancel bs completely. When you jump out of bs, the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs are shown where the 4^th ability symbol is (like hydroid`s 3^rd ability)

· (SYNERGY) If you use the 2^nd ability before you use bs enemy bodies will disappear like the way bs is now.

PROS

· If a teammate needs reviving ash can jump out of bs and revive the downed teammate.

· For the minority of players that have motion sickness while watching bs, those players never have to watch bs ever again.

· Ash is an option to use in a defence mission solo because if he doesn`t get all enemies in the bs radius those enemies free from bs are destroying the pod. Now he can jump out of bs and kill them off.

· 3^rd stage of bs can be used for situations like ash taking too long to kill high level targets e.g. lvl 100 ancient healer in the sorties

· Ash WILL NOT be a kill stealer because other player will be able to kill enemies that are red. The only waframe that can spam his ultimate with no downsides.

· Increasing the amount of kill he can get makes it fare for him to get kills if warframes like spamming saryn, ember and a banshee are in the same mission as he is.

· It will make ash`s augment mod (Rising Storm) more useful, while the clones are killing his melee weapon will increase its strength plus you can also increase the combat multiplier by attacking enemies yourself.

· With bs like this you no longer forced to use primed fury in your melee weapon to speed up bs if you don`t want to.

· The indicator will let you know when you can use bs again by the numbers going down to zero.

· 2^nd and 4^th ability has synergy because enemies near the enemy that is assassinated by bs won’t be alerted which means it will add to the stealth multiplayer. This makes it to where you can strategize to either kill multiple enemies stealthily or just go full frontal assault which makes ash a true stealth frame.

· (OPTIONAL) Elemental mods on melee weapons affect his shuriken e.g. toxic mod on melee weapon = toxic shuriken, ice mod on melee weapon = ice shuriken (which will slow enemies down) OR make it scale by melee damage multiplier which will give synergy with his 1^st ability and his melee weapon.

· (OPTIONAL) when holding the 1^st ability button ash will throw four shuriken’s which will double in damage and duration of ticks (10 secs to 20 secs) at the cost of 50 energy.

· (OPTIONAL) Enemies affected by the stun of smoke screen will reduce their accuracy and make them susceptible to damage by 60% for 10 seconds. (can`t be increased or decreased with mods) Although he won`t benefit from the accuracy reduction due to him being cloaked, he will be team friendly by de-buffing enemies, can be use strategically, it also synergises with his 1^st, 3^rd and 4^th abilities because they will do even more damage due to the enemies being susceptible to damage which makes him an efficient killer.

· (OPTIONAL) Make ash be able to teleport through windows with his 3^rd ability if there is an enemy, ally, MPC or an object with a health bar on the other side of it. (if you understand the concept of teleporting you will get this)

· (OPTIONAL) Make ash be able to teleport to enemies in the air (annoying ospreys) with an air finisher or 1 second spent in the air.

· (OPTIONAL) Aiming and holding the 3^rd ability indicates the area you want to teleport to similar to nidus 1^st ability. This makes it to where you can strategically move around the map sneakily without having to lock on to an enemy and brake the stealth multiplier.

· (OPTIONAL) If ash uses his 2^nd ability first, his 1^st and 3^rd ability kills will make enemy bodies disappear.

· (NERF) If player want to skip the animation it will cost you 25 energy, same with stopping bs entirely, doing both will cost you 50 energy, plus no matter how much efficiency you put on ash it will still take 25 or 50 energy.

· (OPTIONAL NERF) Instead of being invulnerable when in bs ash has an 80% damage reduction.

· FIX: Make his 3^rd ability able to teleport in and out of grates. At the moment he can only teleport in them plus not every grate he can teleport to.

· FIX: Make ash`s bs apparitions (clones) look the same as ash instead of looking holographic (really the “clones” are meant to represent how fast he is teleporting).

(PSN)Vexx757 · February 2, 2018