Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[ADDgamer45]

As I said before. Changes to a frame should be voted on by people who have formas into the frames. Give us a rework checker in the simulacrum. Do something other than just making a decision and forcing it on the players.

[EldenMoon]

I like the Mag idea. Now all mag needs is a rework for her Pull. If she can pull the shards, charge a burst of telekinetic energy, then shoot the shards at enemies or into magnetize, that would be amazing!

[Almagnus1]

If you're gonna make Ember the new Mag, at least buff her 1 and 3 to compensate.  Ember is garbage at sortie level because she's so squishy.

Otherwise you're going to completely cripple the warframe.

[SordidDreams]

8 minutes ago, TebZdotCOM said:

You work long hours at work. You want to farm some Focus but dont have the time. GO to Hydron Press 4. These are situational... You say you dont like how we use them, did you ask us why? To new players this is fine. But to Vets.. People who spent 2000+ hours in this game.. You're fixing S#&$ that was NEVER broken. and now is.

It's worse than that. Ember and Banshee were a fix to the problem of focus farming. Now they're removing the fix because they want us to suffer. To some degree I get it. WF is a f2p game that makes a large part of its revenue by selling boosters. In other words, it's deliberately designed to be tedious to encourage you to spend money to make it less tedious. That's just the nature of the beast. But I think they're going waaay overboard with it with focus.

[Spell]

Ember already was more crowd control than DPS in higher level "end-game" instances like Hieracon - now she's becoming completely useless anywhere but in starting zones.

It's interesting to see how people consider their success not as a result of extreme luck of being in the right place with the right solution which should be preserved - but as an outcome of *every* and *all* their decisions. DE should check history of CCP's/EVE downfall when on the peak of Incarna "walking in stations" hype their CEO has turned this hype into ultimate failure by increasing virtual item prices literally tenfold against values offered by the team - because he didn't care about others' opinions and thought all his decisions are good because the game was so successful under his management. That's how you kill a company and a game - by disappointing people and creating expectations of failure.

p.s. I expect more Mirage nerfs + Scoliac/Maiming Strike nerf next considering the trend to kill all the fun in the game and turn it into boring hunting for energy balls.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Spell

[Almagnus1]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

It's worse than that. Ember and Banshee were a fix to the problem of focus farming. Now they're removing the fix because they want us to suffer. To some degree I get it. WF is a f2p game that makes a large part of its revenue by selling boosters. In other words, it's deliberately designed to be tedious to encourage you to spend money to make it less tedious. That's just the nature of the beast. But I think they're going waaay overboard with it with focus.

They went waaay overboard when they made lenses single use items.  The entire thing is either a platinum or resource sink for stuff that costs far more than forma and reactors and (arguably) gives about the same amount of bonuses.  That said, If they made greater lenses not cost half a million credits to create, I might change my stance.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

21 minutes ago, Vogue said:

I love people who keep threatening with the whole buy plat deal... seriously how old are you?

 

I kno right 😂

I love that all these frames are getting upgraded.

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[Lancars]

I like the change but i don't like it. Doesn't have the cool feel of breathing fire now you just vomit it as you run since you don't have the leaned in animation you used and jumping with it seem extra goofy since like i said it now looks like vomit so now you're spinning in the air.

I dunno keep the same animation. and maybe add in a new jump animation? Maybe he can use those energy wings to leap when he has Spectral Scream active? Again it looks more like vomit then dragons breath.

[ADDgamer45]

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Ember’s specialty is “anything under level 30”.

Seriously they know she is only good at low levels but decide that instead they will make it even more difficult to survive. Plus if you actually play ember you know that 200% damage is literally nothing.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

The fix for WoF has been long over do, but nerfing the range, and boosting the energy cost for more damage may prove to be detrimental for a frame where getting close to do damage may have the player end up using a life restore in end game content. Which was the reason Firequake is such a good aug in the first place. Shortening its range is going to hurt it in some way. However, the only reason why I bring this up, is because I haven't the slightest inclination on how the damage will fare against high armored sortie level Grineer and using Accelerant in tandem with it may prove to be futile. Not only that, but if you are going to go down the route of nerfing the range for close range play, maybe give her some form of damage reduction. She's kind of squishy.

Speaking of Accelerant, could we please have it affect other heat-based combinations (gas, explosive, radiation).

Also, Embers passive is kind of situational. Considering you may hardly ever run in to an enemy using it, and if you do, it will end your life faster than you can react considering fire can do such an obscene amount of damage if your caught in it. Maybe since you guys have nerfed the range on WoF, her passive can be that if she ignites the enemies on fire. Doesn't have to be immediate, but a chance to activate her passive if an enemy gets ignited can be very beneficial in her future play style.

 

[Wyrmius_Prime]

''Damage and stun duration are halved for enemies further away from Volt ''

Why nerf Volt even further tho? Electricity is a crap damage type, no matter how much you make the base value, it is going to suck in high level missions because of the stupid armor scaling. Volt will just become the new Banshee for lower level missions.

 

Also RIP Ember's CC in high level missions with that energy cost ramp.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Wyrmius_Prime

[(PSN)DBR87]

For the most part, I really like what I am reading. While I personally would rather see Petrify and Spectral Scream completely removed and replaced, I am willing to try the changes to them. I really like playing as Zephyr and I can't wait to experience the changes. Again, rather have Tornados gone BUT if allies can add damage to Tornados by shooting them then that is a great change, too.

I applaud you guys at Digital Extremes for focusing on fixes and buffs so far this year. I hopes this can continue through the year so Warframe can get some much needed polish.

EDIT: Really thinking about the Mag buffs I don't feel as though they will be enough. I think that 175 base energy should be 200. Would also like to see a change where enemies affected by Magnetize and Polarize have a special effect that casting Pull on them has a 75% chance to drop an energy orb. Also, we should be able to cast skills during the Crush animation. Casting Magnetize would gather all enemies and shards affected by Crush into a single spot in front of her and leave them Magnetized. Casting Pull would make Crush push every Enemy and Shards in the area away. Casting Polarize while Crush is active would double the Shield/Armor effectiveness and cause Shards to Orbit Mag for 10 seconds as a ring of damage.. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by (PS4)DBR87

[blacklusterseph]

Zephyr Feedback

Tailwind: The base function that [DE]Reb demo'ed looks like it works ok and triggers from standing/running which is great and removes the inconsistent triggering. The charge part however doesn't look that great. For one it is basically restricted in which tilesets it is relevant which I think is an issue with Zephyr's current kit. It's not a matter of mission type which is where one might switch to appropriate loadouts, but the random tilesets can straight up impede it. My other issues with it is that it now places divebomb behind a control sequence that brings your flow of movement to a grinding halt. The prospect of getting riddled with bullets or getting one-tapped by a nullifer while in the middle of charging doesn't sound very appealing. My last issue with the demo is the angle at which divebomb actually triggers. That kind of variable is exactly what I had wished to be removed from the mechanics of Zephyr's abilities. In my opinion the best abilities in the game are the ones that behave consistently and have predictable results, not the ones that are the most flashy/complex.

My Suggestion: with reticle aiming for Tailwind on the ground and Zephyr's passive, I believe the hover state is uneccessary. Similarly I think this is the wrong place to shoehorn Divebomb and I hope you reconsider adding it to Tailwind.

 

Airburst: I couldn't find a timestamp for this so not sure if it was demo'ed. Conceptually it sounds like what Divebomb should have been: as in a fast CC that can be used anywhere (not tileset or ground contact dependant) and that has a guaranteed effect that immediately stops enemies from attacking. I don't care about the semantics so if this becomes the CC that Divebomb was then I think this change could work.

My Suggestion: my only suggestion would be to have this effect focused around Zephyr as opposed to a projectile that she launches. My reasonlng is that tailwind would tend to move Zephyr into combat as opposed to standing off, so bring the CC on the way in seems more approporiate.

 

Tornadoes: I think the good part here is the fact that you can damage enemies inside without having to specificallly shoot them. I think that addresses some of the annoying aspects that teammates feel when a Zephyr presses 4. On the less good side, I don't think the reticle guiding is really needed. It sounds and looks more like a system that will be prone to bugs rather than actually improving the ability.

My suggestion: I think the primary QoL this ability needs is better pathing AI for the tornadoes and slightly faster movement. There are many other things in the game that seem to path quite effectively so I'd like to see that on Tornadoes before the demo'ed functionality.

 

As I predicted the Zephyr revisit was probably going to be a lot more complicated than devs expected but at least it is being looked at a lot eariler than I predicted.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

The range nerf and energy cost ramp are ridiculous. RIP CC in high level missions. WoF will need a completely new augment. Also meanwhile they're turning Volt into a new low-level room clearer, while ruining the CC for high levels. They have no goddamn logic in whatever they're trying to do.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Wyrmius_Prime

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, schilds said:

Anyway, my suspicion is that this is less a nerf and more an increase in micromanagement. It'll require more button presses and prevent people pressing 4 and then going afk.

Wouldn't be surprised if that is the real reason, just look at the way focus has been changed to require unnecessary micromanagement.  It does seem the 'powers that be' at DE see micromanagement and excessively grindy additions (and/or making things take longer by nerfing things that speed the process up) to the game as 'fun' and based on my clan and my own feelings there's only so much we can put up with before just saying screw it and finding something else, most of my clan is already playing considerably less than they used to. 

[Azamagon]

On 2018-02-02 at 8:03 PM, [DE]Connor said:

-snip-

After cooling off a bit, some more relaxed feedback on your changes:

ASH:
Better than current version, that's for sure. Still not sure if marking enemies is fitting for Warframe's general pace, considering it can be rather nauseating to do the "wiggle aim". I'd just like 2 more changes for Bladestorm:
1) Bigger aiming leeway, like a small cone, instead of requiring pinpoint aim
2) Holdcast to cancel the ability without launching clones (refunding your energy and removing all marks)

Now, that said, Shuriken needs some improvements too, especially considering it's now turning obsolete (augment aside) with this new Bladestorm. Give it a stun/stagger? Just ANYTHING to make it have some use besides flat damage.

Smoke Shadow QoL -> Maybe leave a cloud behind, which allies can go inside to get the stealth buff? (And which could maybe block LoS for enemies?)
 

ATLAS:
Overall this is one of the more promising reworks. The Rubble-mechanic sounds real nice, as it adds some sustainability to his kit, and really gives Petrify a much better role in his kit!

Landslide -> Buff is nice, no complaint there. Well, why not just make Petrified enemies take more damage in general (rather than JUST buffing Landslide)?

Tectonics -> The only disappointment. Why can't this just become a good ability by default? Rock Shotgun via Landslide? Boulder having a "gravity"-effect, so it pulls in enemies? Atlas rolling with the Boulder by pressing X near it? It could be such a cool and versatile skill, yet you add forced synergy to "buff" if? Kinda sad.

Petrify -> Can cast his other skills while active, heals Rumblers... perfect!
Why doesn't it heal Tectonics though?
And a small suggestion: Rather than the "beam" coming straight out of his head (which then tilts the beam when using Landslide etc), maybe have him summon an "eye" in front of his face to do the Petrifying "beam", which then always aims in the direction of the crosshair? That way, the beam won't rapidly change direction just because we are using abilities or rolling etc. It looks annoying with the beam changing directions rapidly like that.
Also, maybe let him move at full speed (but not parkour/sprint etc)?

Rumblers -> The instant petrification is neat, but kind of redundant, no? Anywho, these seem to miss out a whole bunch on improvements. Example of the things they could do:
1) Let their attacks add to (and benefit from) Atlas' melee combo counter!
2) In Nullifying fields, how about having their healths drain over time, rather than just instadie?
3) The augment isn't just bad, it's DETRIMENTAL (it mechanically and numerically NERFS his ability a whole bunch...). It has incoming changes too, right?

BANSHEE:
Resonating Quake changes.... Acoustic Mine? Is that you?! WOOHOO! :D
While I really like this change (obviously)... why not do something like this to her BASE ability? Soundquake by default is REALLY boring. Her augment could then do basicly anything else, really.
Then, considering the strong overlap between Silence (which is already partly obsoleted with her passive), why not revamp/upgrade Silence into something more unique stealth-esque? Here is an old idea of mine to replace Silence:

Ghost Shroud = Banshee creates a dome that follows her as she moves (think how the Frost Eximus bubble works). Enemies outside the dome cannot hear/see what happens inside of the dome, but those inside are fully aware of what happens inside. Enemies that enter the dome are stunned (as per current Silence). Then, to further make it unique; If you crouch, the dome shrinks in size. If you sprint or bulletjump, the dome grows in size.
^ That'd be a very unique (group)stealth-esque ability that not only goes with her stealthy style, but also with her ghostly motif (as per her name).

Further, could Sonic Boom become onehanded and aimable (rather than just a frontal cast), please?


CHROMA
Spectral Scream -> Ok, neat, for sure. But a weapon is still better you know? It needs more improvements than that, and some incentive to be used over a good AoE weapon. Maybe have it restore shields upon damaging enemies, aiding his buildup for reapplying Vex Armor? That, and maybe INCREASE his movespeed while active?
Graphically though, it could need some fixing (it just looks like he goes around puking on the floor haha!). I think increasing the "projectilespeed" (so to speak) of the breath's effects would help alleviate this issue.
Also, the augment is still completely and utterly dreadful. Maybe give it the same mechanic as Nezha's Pyroclastic Flow?

Vex Armor -> Fixes are always good, and his uberdamage was too cheesy anyway. It being an aura is... weird, but nice. However, considering how he is usually modded (Narrowminded, for example), range is not something he builds for most of the time (part of why Spectral Scream also suffers immensly).

He could also have a look at the various elements' effects (and some way to swap midmission?). Elemental Ward is nice for Cold, as all Chroma users know. Heat could provide HP-regen, instead of raw health. Electric's shieldbonuses ought to be WAY stronger. Toxic could be better at providing offensive bonuses.


EMBER
Sorry, but total nope.
Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, this is still kneejerk nerfing and nothing else. And a BIG nerf at that.
Sure, it DOES aid against the lowlevel cheese, but at the cost of also making her even more useless on higher levels (as its damage was irrelevant at high levels, but it's range and CC was always important). Not to mention, her nigh useless Fireball and Fire Blast are left untouched? Why? Oh well... on to suggestions:

WoF -> Scrap the suggested mechanic (like really, it's aweful, there's no way to sugarcoat it). However; Flat damage heavily nerfed (like from 400 to 100?), but also deals X% of the target's CURRENT health on each tick!
This way, it won't instakill far too easily on lowlevels, but still can aid in softening up enemies on higher levels, as well as aid with spreading heat-status like a true pyromaniac!

Fireball -> All enemies will be debuffed if hurt by Fireball, so upon their deaths they will explode with heat/blast damage equal to X% of their MAX health (a la Vulcan Blitz and such).

Fire Blast -> Guarantees to ragdoll enemies away who are hurt by the blastwave. Enemies hurt by the blastwave and/or the ring will be debuffed into having their heatprocs spread to other enemies who get near them. Shooting through the ring adds X% heat-damage to your attacks (works for Fireball too!)

Passive -> Now gains the current effects when igniting ENEMIES (rather than herself), but the bonuses are weaker.


GARA
Hard to judge how it will turn out in practice, but theoretically it sounds good.


MAG
Polarize Shards -> As someone else pointed out, this is reverse scaling, i.e. scales better on weaker content. Not a very good buff to it.

Crush -> Random buff much? Obsoleteing her Polarize (and moreso its augment) much?

Why no changes to make Pull better at reliably positining enemies (so you can, for example, more easily deposite them in Magnetize bubbles?). Why not make Polarize's armor/shield stripping scale better (and to function on Infested IN GENERAL)?
I think a good idea for Mag (or when overlooking ANY Warframe) is to look at each ability and give each one a clear purpose. Looking at Mag at the moment you have:
Pull -> CC / enemy relocation
Magnetize -> DPS zone
Polarize -> Enemy debuff / shieldhealing
Crush -> CC / flat nuke

Only Crush sticks out to really need a better role (as its current CC is quite a joke, and flat nuking is not very useful, especially not MAGNETIC damage). So dont you think it feels wrong to give it the some of the SAME job as Polarize has (shieldhealing), when it could instead excel at, for example, being a CC-lockdown (in contrast to Pull's job being more towards being an enemy gathering tool), especially with a name like CRUSH (seriously, how did you link the words CRUSH and SHIELDREPAIR together??)

Or how about making Crush be an awesome CC and debuffer (instead of Polarize being the debuffer), along with some decent flat nuking, while Polarize instead focuses on repairing (and strengthening) shields for herself and allies?

Then you'd have clear roles:
Pull -> Snap CC / enemy relocation
Magnetize -> DPS zone
Polarize -> Survivability (via shield-related stuff)
Crush -> CC / debuffer / flat nuke


VOLT
Not a bad buff, for sure. Note though; He still probably won't be an amazing DPSer against Grineer due to Electric damage vs Armor. He'll properly wreck tons against Infested and Corpus though. Now if only Shock could become more reliable at its job (it's rather annoying that it can prioritize to chain to enemies some distance behind me, even if I have aimed it far in front of me! No, I'm not talking about the chain-jumping, I'm talking about the MAIN FIRST AIMED STRIKE!)


ZEPHYR
TW+DB -> Chargecast to do a TW with hover at the end sounds interesting. Having to look down for DB is aweful, at least make it holdcast to dive down, please? How about some better damage on Dive Bomb too, so it feels worthwhile to use (and not just being a "mobility"-tool / snap CC?)

Air Burst -> It will ragdoll enemies INWARDS to the centre, right? Otherwise what's the point? Or will it deal lots of damage to compensate? Would like to know more info on this ability.

Tornado -> Damaging trapped enemies is a PERFECT upgrade, as has been suggested in the past (it aids to counter its chaoticness, it aids with aerial aim... it's just plain awesome). However, can it be uncast? Will enemies contribute to the damage (so you can use them as little defensive "towers" to hide behind)?
The other changes to it are awesome bonuspoints too.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Azamagon

[mkoo33]

Just now, Vogue said:

I love people who keep threatening with the whole buy plat deal... seriously how old are you?

 

The one thing i know  for sure :

February 6, they will open the prime vault .. selling Ember (nerfed) .. who will want to buy it ?

[Noctis_The_Buckethead]

ASH- bladestorm tweak seems good, but maybe lower per enemy cost a bit to 10 when visable and 5 when invisable, the base cost per enemy is still too high, making it almost necessary for max efficiency builds, spammin energy pizzas, or bringing a harrow or trinity, also maybe adding a small circle around the cursor to target enemies easier, like mesa's 4 but a lot smaller cone for aiming.

BANSHEE's augment- seems ok, but maybe buff focus farming instead of nerfing the meta, that way people wont need to resort to things like resonating quake, like what was mentioned in dev stream 100, sooner the better. 

Atlas- seems pretty good so far, but making his Petrify a single cast ability with instant effect in a cone in front of him would free you to not just punch but shoot jump ect, maybe to balance it make enemies closer petrify 100% of the time but further away near the edge it drops to 75% chance of instant petrification. If that sounds too OP maybe making it last at base 15 seconds would be a suitable trade off, and a 50 energy base cost (yes i am the same guy that asked that during prime time)

Chroma- seems good so far but his 4 could use a base energy drain reduction of some kind, also please let the "Fix" still let it be the highest damage buff ability in the game(excluding banshee's sonar hotspots), also the status chance of his 1 should be a bit higher.Also maybe make his 3 refreshable by recasting.

Ember- the energy drain seems a bit extreme, but other than that, its OK, but still Fixing the grind that made the "meta" press 4 to win mind set instead of nerfing would be better.

Gara- just make it duration based again, then balance it a different way, 

Mag- Maybe un-nerfing would be better than those tweaks, and making polerize scale not of damage done to enemies but the enemy's base EHP would be better, but any improvements are a step up from the perpetual nerfs of the past.(seriously never nerf mag again, you guys have done more than enough nerfs, only buffs for mag from now on)

Volt- since his 4 is getting a massive damage buff but losing a fair bit of its CC, maybe making his 1 stun for a duration similar to what his 4 does now, but in a line of sight cast to offset some of the lost CC. other than that seems pretty good.

Zephyr- good all round, not amazing but good.

Also UN NERF ARCA PLASMOR...(or at least just lower the headshot multiplyer of it instead of just removeing it)-please

Also Instead of Nerfing the frames that are used to make the insane almost unbareable grind of this game a bit less bad, FIX THE GRIND. Examples Mutagen samples for the Hema(Just make enemies drop 1-5 at base per drop it is just a simple tweak to the numbers not a total overhaul), also instead of nerfing damage Nerf the enemies so that massive damage buffs like chroma's vex armor are not seeked out as mandatory, (Lower the multiplyer of armor increase per level for enemies and put a soft cap on it, but health scailing is fine as is, so cap armor scaling but keep health scaling)

Edited February 6, 2018 by eyf101
Came up with more ideas

[Aareyn2hip]

Zephyr's Jet Stream augment says it applies to team mates but the range is insignificant, Please consider adjusting the range as it is to little and the buff wares off if not in range of zephyr (that being under her nose)

[FromPengu]

Zephyr mains rejoice

[Lancars]

Now i decided to redo this as i can't delete threads.

Tail Wind/Dive Bomb: Use the tap and hold mechanic you've added. Tapping the button is used for flying but when you look down and hold you have a small moment in a slender cone to choose where you want to Dive Bomb into giving you a small measure of control and making sure you're not diving into a pit or trying to use Dive Bomb to fly somewhere. You get a small radius ring on the ground so down is the only option.

Turbulence: This right here is a very good ability but the problem is the moment it drops you have a panic moment because in high damage places the enemy is quite accurate. I feel like the new ability Air Burst should at least extend the duration a bit but caps off at a max time.

Air Burst and Tornado rework is awesome.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Lancars
Reworked a rework thread.

[mkoo33]

Just now, eyf101 said:

Also UN NERF ARCA PLASMOR...(or at least just lower the headshot multiplyer of it instead of just removeing it)-please

 

It's been done with the latest upgrade. Now it's back to it's fullest :)

[Darkvramp]

: ohh can i suggest a chroma change? like rolling his everlasting ward onto his base ability and comeing up with a new augment, its silly that chroma needs an augment to get a functionality many frames have innately

also, as a suggestion, a new augment could possibly give him a mini eximus aura

[Vogue]

2 minutes ago, mkoo33 said:

The one thing i know  for sure :

February 6, they will open the prime vault .. selling Ember (nerfed) .. who will want to buy it ?

I guarantee you that some people will, and if they don't, then maybe the devs will reconsider the changes. Threatening never gets people anywhere.

[Darkvramp]

Ember:

that 100% extra damage needs to both scale with power strength and, not cost extra extra energy. she should not be penalized for finally being able to to take on the content in the game that many other frames can.

she does not have the survivablity to get close to enemies, or the toughness to want to get close to  enemies

Edited February 3, 2018 by Darkvramp