Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2

[Shadedraxe]

Woohoo, digging these additions. However I still have concerns with chroma’s Effigy being worth using with its extremely high energy cost for what the ability can actually do. It doesn’t seem worth the drain, especially when chroma is built for power strength and other stats over efficiency. However with the recastable vex armor players Chroma players will be able to add in more efficiency in place of duration mods. However a base 15 per second drain is still very high for a non mobile cc/ somewhat decent dps turret that strips your armor value.

And on Atlas, I’m glad to see that petrify won’t reauire you to keep it channeled and reducing your speed throughout the map. Change to rubble buffs not having separate instances is nice too. However I tectonics is still lacking, the wall on its own has very limited uses for defensive purposes. Could it perhaps have some unique functions. Like for example volt’s tiny shield can be held and carried around and shot through for damage bonus. I’m not asking for the same thing in rock wall, but at least something to help it stand out from snow globe, cataclysm, electric shield, and the new and improved mass vitrify. The rolling boulder doesn’t make tectonics more worth using on its own and is completely unusable when using the tectonics augment (which is somewhat of a shame). Petrify will however buff the usuage boulder, but even with the boosted health rock wall leaves something to be desired. One more thing about atlas, the Rumblers. The aoe blast on cast is great! The rumblers turning into rubble on death is great! Petrify healing rumblers is great! The rumblers creating rubbles by killing enemies would be great if rumblers were better at doing so. The problem I’m seeing with Atlas’s ult is that I’d rather just cast and uncast the rumblers right away to get instant rubble on their death (if that is even gonna happen). And even then I’d just use the the aoe blast and destroy those petrified enemies for rubble. I wouldn’t want to waste my time healing my rumblers if they can’t do enough. Partially because of their ai, but rumblers don’t do enough punching or pulling agro, and they tend to run around ignoring most things. Will we be seeing any performance improvements on rumblers themselves or at the very least some buffs to occasionally taunt enemies or deal some more overall damage to heavier targets?

Love everything else. The energy cost decreases, heat blast getting some electric shield treatment. Very nice. However one note on zephyr, brozime brought it up in a steam, inceasing the size of the tornado with Zephyr’s air blast seems to make the tornado significantly more tall than it does wider due to the tornadoes being as tall and thin as they are. Which means that it isn’t A very significant boosted aoe in maps with low ceilings (pretty all tile sets that don’t spend the majority outdoors). Is there a possibility that tornados will get a slight change in model and gain more width over height upon increasing their size?

[Almagnus1]

Ember's changes look interesting, and the changes to the 1 and 3 will definitely help with the changes to WoF.

A thought with the Fire Blast ring... maybe it should also function as a shield because it's hot enough to incinerate any incoming projectile/deflect energy?

A thought, as that would DEFINITELY encourage players to use the 3 as a semi-defensive ability, giving Ember some much needed survivability.

[Nyatalia]

4 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Vex Armor can now be recast to preserve accumulated buffs.

Are you kidding me? this is another broken mechanic right here, unless you all have trashed to the ground vex armor buffs recasting to keep the buffs forever is just ridiculous, if you guys are really going to do this the same should be done to to other warframes like loki, ash trinity, rhino, etc if you plan to break a warframe just to get people happy break all of the other ones too, having a warframe capable of dealing massive ammounts of damage and tank a lot of it for aslong as the user wants is just too much, having an invisible frame forever wouldn't be as bad because weapons wouldn't scale as well as if they were buffed with vex armor, and nor would it be having 3 enemies stripped of their armor at all times (trinity with her abating link augment also let her cast her link on the air for gods sake).

[(PSN)Raygun_X_]

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

*sigh*

The Eber nerf still does not matter for the reasoning given by DE. If you think I won't set up the cancer full range build, sit on a Meso def and be afk for 5 minutes why WoF kills everything, you would be bloody damn wrong, and I can prove it with math RIGHT NOW.

Ember has a minimum drain of 0.75 per second for WoF, even if you double the cost it is 1.5 per second. Even on base, non flow, non prime Ember has 225 energy (and let's be honest no one will use no flow Ember).
But the range - Overextend to offset the range nerf (and since WoF will do double damage the trade off is not so bad), Stretch, Augur Reach and Cunning drift give 42m meters range, cut it by half and it is still 21 meters, which again allows for people to Emote dances on top of deff objectives.

So what is the final result?
Ant stompers will shuffle a build, end game Embers have less mod diversity, and FQ becomes worse.

I came to that conclusion aswell.

[Visorium]

Aww, IF Chroma was be able to use quick melee when Spectral Scream is active

[Shadedraxe]

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

Ember's changes look interesting, and the changes to the 1 and 3 will definitely help with the changes to WoF.

A thought with the Fire Blast ring... maybe it should also function as a shield because it's hot enough to incinerate any incoming projectile/deflect energy?

A thought, as that would DEFINITELY encourage players to use the 3 as a semi-defensive ability, giving Ember some much needed survivability.

Yes yes!!! That would definitely boost her survival and make her a little more than just an all out damage only frame.

[DConagher]

So wait, lemme get this straight. This + the other changes means the following in reference to Atlas:

Atlas now has a Rubble system, granting him healing, and armor if at max hp. The buff may or may not stack, due to the new rework will now have a singular duration, and killing petrified targets by any means WILL grant rubble. .
Would like clarification here, does the rubble armor boost stack, how long is the duration, basically can we get a gif of that too? Regardless, my favorite tank warframe just got      tank-ier. Sure!
His Landslide does MORE DAMAGE to petrified targets
So, One Punch Man....Can punch...harder?...ok.
His Petrify is now Single Cast, Instant regardless of level, with by the looks of it a Slight charge to do so. 
Wait....You're telling me PETRIFY, widely considered to be the worst skill of most of Warframe, and by far Atlas's Worst base skill, is now on par with the World destroying power of landslide, and in the process, his kit has synergy?! AND it works regardless of enemy level or power strength? I played Atlas because I liked his original design, and just never really used his 3. What you've just sent me is a notice that Atlas now has 4 abilities, and that Landslide might not be far and away the best thing in his kit! 
Summoning Rumblers now Petrifies everything around you in an Aoe, and rumblers drop Rubble on death
The change to this is imo just kinda there, but if for some reason your build doesn't rely on his new Petrify, a low duration version of this skill is Rubblegen/Petrify rolled into one. Interesting, to say the least. Also, another question, how much rubble will the rumblers drop? 1-2 each at full hp?

Basically, Atlas is now "meta"?

 

...ok

[Kerch]

As thrilled as I am with the Atlas changes, I really think you guys are overthinking the Ember stuff.  

1.  Make Fireball into a ranged Landslide.  Let it scale off damage mods and combo 2x-4x times for increased damage and reduced cost.

2.  Accelerant is pretty perfect, maybe let the stun scale with duration.

3.  Slightly increase radius of Fire Blast and cause flames to block firing lines.  (forces ranged enemies to move though fire and gives augment some value)

4.  WoF needs a more thorough rework,  what you're currently planning largely murders it.  But if you do the above, it should be mostly fine if WoF sucks.

5.  Make Ember's trait heal her a percentage of the damage her heat status' deal.

With that she should be more viable as a ranged caster while promoting a more active gameplay and has some on-theme survivabilty.

[UrielColtan]

@[DE]Connor

I was really busy this weekend so didn't have too much time to look over the topic and compose my opinion on anything, but would like to start now if I can.

About Ash, its good that his 4 is getting improved, but I think his rework should have gone beyond just centering around his 4. I also personally would have preferred a new channeled 4th ability but I can deal with his 4 as it will be now. Though for his other abilities, here are some modified suggestions I originally posted in a devstream topic. I don't expect any of these kinds of changes to be put in for the update this week of course, but at least something to consider with further tweaks, afterward.

Shuriken: Could you give Ash one extra throwing star with his Shuriken ability, to comply with the amount of clones + you? Could you also add punch through and chance to stagger enemies, Quick Thinking style? Maybe even the chance to pin enemies to the floor, similar to the description mentioned on his Shuriken ability. Wouldn't hurt to also allow the player to charge the ability so as to increase damage/bleed/punch through, though if you think that as too powerful, then perhaps you can have the charged Shuriken launch only one shurken.

Smokescreen: Smokescreen is seen as dime-store Loki Invisibility, and easily the weakest invisibility in the game. Loki, Ivara, and Octavia, are laughing at Ash.  If its going to be so short and non team utility by comparison(Without an augment anyway, which is still lacking by comparison to the frames who can do that, and without an augment even.), at least give it some improved features. Stuff like having Smokescreen make Ash as light as vapor, thus increasing both his movement speed and melee speed to compensate for the low duration.  No making him floaty like Zephyr though. Smokescreen could also have a charge modifier, letting you turn the smokescreen into a smokebomb when you cast for invisibility, allowing you to launch some surrounding enemies away in a cone with a blast proc by holding the button, if you like.

Teleport: I don't know what it is with you DE, but every ideal conceptual improvement that has been offered as an improvement to Ash's teleport, you have apprently decided to just give it to other things. Its like you are messing with me, lol. Things like Nezha's teleport or the Operators' Void Dash would have been good concepts to go forward with in regard to improving Ash's teleport. If you are not up for giving those teleports to Ash in any way,  then perhaps you could do this other idea instead. Make Ash's teleport work like Castanas and Talons. Ash can toss Void traps to any surface, (not just enemies, consoles and non broken containers), and have it stick there, then press "X" to actually activate telportation to any of the traps' locations, and even chain the teleports with consecutive presses of "X". Players can dispel his void traps by holding down "3" to make them go off in mini smokeblasts that can hurt or confuse nearby enemies. Can also attach them to teammates for quick teleporting to a downed ally, though it loses this ability if not in range.

 

Teleport can retain stealth finisher procs when stuck to an enemy. 

Teleport can also still allow you to join Bladestorm if you push 3 after activating your 4. Or better yet, just let yourself join the Bladestorm by pressing 4 again after initial activation.

 

Most of the other suggestions and changes for the other frames look mostly good but Ember I am still a bit iffy about. Even though she was never my favorite frame, I still think the people who like her should get some care in regard to changes, and compensation for particular nerfs. She really needs survivability, her Overheat ability from years ago would be ideal to bring back with some updates.

Atlas and Chroma were also concerning, I am glad Atlas in particular is getting some much needed changes, though I had some other ideas that I have misplaced as of now and will need to look for once I get off work, and I will try to make commentary on the rest of the frames getting reworked then as well.

 

 

[Ktro]

Banshee is nerfed even more......one hit just???

Ember  the nerf is still present and no one really uses fireball and buffing it makes no real sense as world of fire the only ability she is used for will have smaller radius and cost 2X

Chroma is nerfed to octavia standard that too with taking up a weapon slot (secondary with concealed explosives) and buffing his 1 is not why chroma was used and will get replaced by other frames... dont kill chroma's speciality high damage (its like taking away loki's invisibility) and it has been nerfed to do like 15% of the previous damage. Atleast the damage should be like 60% of the previous one. 

It looks nobody is gonna play ember and banshee at all, chroma will also go to the backbench

With banshee nerf the huge problem with focus schools will become more prominent and a solution for focus farming is needed

[Fate_Epsylon]

19 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

That is kind of how DE are coming across right now, only they themselves quite genuinely don't seem to realise it and it's weird as hell.

To be honest.... I'm just surprised that they just wont outright explain why they are doing this in general...

It's starting to feel like there's some other kind of reason behind the way Ember's being handled. (as if it were some kind of grudge or something...)

[Azamagon]

3 hours ago, Chitanda.Eru said:

Mag's Disarm from the 2nd ability Augment now seems redundant and inferior since Polarize pretty much kind of does the same at a larger range.

Right?

Her Magnetize augment could instead be something like; Magnetize can now be placed anywhere in the world, and its pull-in strength is increased by 50/100/150/200%. Then the Polarize augment could remain as proposed, and Magnetize could become manually detonatable by default (holdcast the ability, while aiming on one of the bubbles)

Also, Polarize and Crush are far too similar now: They both aid shields, they both CC (with Polarize augment), they both deal damage. Only unique difference is that Polarize can create shards.

I'd like the shards to be a bigger part of her kit. Like;

Shards are created when casting Polarize on enemies (Greedy Pull could also do this on the affected targets, as a bonus, perhaps?). Pull also "vacuums" in all shards to her (she then stores them on herself, as a value). If she walks into a Magnetize bubble, she could rapidly drain this shard-storage to fuel Magnetize's damage. Also, casting Crush consumes some/all shards stored, adding to its nuke power. Then just let Polarize deal with the shieldrepairs entirely (instead of tacking that onto Crush as well), overshields included.

Then Crush most certainly becomes a nuke, while Polarize remains an enemy debuffer and ally shieldrepair-ability, with synergy (instead of competition) between them even.

[Almagnus1]

Just now, Fate_Epsylon said:

To be honest.... I'm just surprised that they just wont outright explain why they are doing this in general...

It's starting to feel like there's some other kind of reason behind the way Ember's being handled. (as if it were some kind of grudge or something...)

Not that I necessarily agree with this but...

IMO the Banshee and Ember changes are falling in line with the same philosophy that got the Tonkor and Simulor nerfed - DE doesn't like it when you can have a frame (like the AoEs or Mirage with the weapons) that can allow for players to do nothing because DE perceives them to be so overwhelmingly powerful that AFK play can happen.  There's also the line of thinking where DE is taking under-represented frames and abilities and (like the weapons) trying to improve them so they see more use.

At least, I think that's why they're doing it.

Either way, I really wish they'd drop the range decrease to WoF, as the rest of the changes that Ember's getting generally seem like they're good buffs to the lesser used abilities.

[Ham_Grenabe]

3 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

To be honest.... I'm just surprised that they just wont outright explain why they are doing this in general...

It's starting to feel like there's some other kind of reason behind the way Ember's being handled. (as if it were some kind of grudge or something...)

Especially when they were refreshingly direct with Chroma: "The math was wrong and we never bothered to fix it because it didn't matter until you started one-shotting the boss we thought would be hard."

[(PSN)JonathGariepy]

il y a 9 minutes, Nathalieh a dit :

Are you kidding me? this is another broken mechanic right here, unless you all have trashed to the ground vex armor buffs recasting to keep the buffs forever is just ridiculous, if you guys are really going to do this the same should be done to to other warframes like loki, ash trinity, rhino, etc if you plan to break a warframe just to get people happy break all of the other ones too, having a warframe capable of dealing massive ammounts of damage and tank a lot of it for aslong as the user wants is just too much, having an invisible frame forever wouldn't be as bad because weapons wouldn't scale as well as if they were buffed with vex armor, and nor would it be having 3 enemies stripped of their armor at all times (trinity with her abating link augment also let her cast her link on the air for gods sake).

Well that's pretty much what they did with the calculation change to Vex Armor... it's nowhere near as good now, especially on the toughness side.

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

To be honest.... I'm just surprised that they just wont outright explain why they are doing this in general...

It's starting to feel like there's some other kind of reason behind the way Ember's being handled. (as if it were some kind of grudge or something...)

Which, is really weird in itself. I hate to come anywhere even close to tinfoil hat territory, and DE usually have some kind of reason for the things they do, but this is just bonkers. Like I keep mentioning, look at what DE are doing to Ember. Look at the mere existence of Octavia. Look at the various alternative suggestions people keep putting forth, good and bad.

 

And look at DE ploughing ahead anyway, adding weird, useless gimmicks to Ember and acting like they're giving her compensatory buffs.

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

Not that I necessarily agree with this but...

IMO the Banshee and Ember changes are falling in line with the same philosophy that got the Tonkor and Simulor nerfed - DE doesn't like it when you can have a frame (like the AoEs or Mirage with the weapons) that can allow for players to do nothing because DE perceives them to be so overwhelmingly powerful that AFK play can happen.  There's also the line of thinking where DE is taking under-represented frames and abilities and (like the weapons) trying to improve them so they see more use.

At least, I think that's why they're doing it.

Either way, I really wish they'd drop the range decrease to WoF, as the rest of the changes that Ember's getting generally seem like they're good buffs to the lesser used abilities.

Octavia.

[phoenix1992]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Octavia.

And as already stated this change does not stop the ant stompers.

[Fate_Epsylon]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Octavia.

'Nuff said

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, phoenix1992 said:

And as already stated this change does not stop the ant stompers.

As in, slot in Overextended and you're fine. She'll suffer at high levels because her buffs won't be as good, but she'll still wreck face at the same problematic behaviour that DE are trying to get rid of.

 

DE please. You are trying to fix a clock with a sledgehammer.

[Juebev]

Can you tell us if Chroma's Vex "Armor" is going to be affected? As a solo player survivability is extremely important and while I understand the change to his damage, I hope his armor stays the same since there wasn't really an issue with that.

[bluepulpulpul]

So you are just determined to not revert plasmor nerf? Any status weapon no matter how "status" it is should not be not allowed to deal headshot damage. Heck, I can even deal headshot damage with lenz if I directly shoot the head. Removing headshot bonus just take away so many potential and synergy it could have with warframe ability.

[Zeratul360]

hace 4 horas, (PS4)NatK98 dijo:

Keep her range the same, but reduce the amount of damage enemies take from WoF significantly the further away they are from Ember, while increasing it the closer they are. This will allow her firequake augment to be useful still, unlike the proposed option.

This is what we need, pls DE, consider this.

[phoenix1992]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

As in, slot in Overextended and you're fine. She'll suffer at high levels because her buffs won't be as good, but she'll still wreck face at the same problematic behaviour that DE are trying to get rid of.

 

DE please. You are trying to fix a clock with a sledgehammer.

It is more than that, teeth.

17 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

*sigh*

The Ember nerf still does not matter for the reasoning given by DE. If you think I won't set up the cancer full range build, sit on a Meso def and be afk for 5 minutes why WoF kills everything, you would be bloody damn wrong, and I can prove it with math RIGHT NOW.

Ember has a minimum drain of 0.75 per second for WoF, even if you double the cost it is 1.5 per second. Even on base, non flow, non prime Ember has 225 energy (and let's be honest no one will use no flow Ember).
But the range - Overextend to offset the range nerf (and since WoF will do double damage the trade off is not so bad), Stretch, Augur Reach and Cunning drift give 42m meters range, cut it by half and it is still 21 meters, which again allows for people to Emote dances on top of deff objectives.

So what is the final result?
Ant stompers will shuffle a build, end game Embers have less mod diversity, and FQ becomes worse.

The nerf does nothing good, and even buffs WoF on ant stomp level, since Overextended is not -100% PS

[TexugoPrime]

4 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Crush animations slightly sped up

Yes!! The right way to go