Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2

[Liacu]

A lot of great changes, especially for Chroma. I think Banshee's Augment should come with a quicker cast speed for Soundquake since it's supposed to be a quick burst. Unfortunately, I'm still incredibly negative about the Mag changes. She currently has some of the worst augments in the game now.

We have Greedy Pull which is a glorified Sentinel Vacuum that costs an entire warframe mod slot that also already exists as her own passive. (Which is also crap)

Magnetized Discharge which allows us to blow up our Magnetize bubbles (why isn't this a base capability?) and Disarms enemies, (not even a 100% chance disarm) even though we want them to shoot into other bubbles that should be around.

Now we have a very short duration CC (4 seconds, really?) that costs 75 energy from Polarize on top of it doing very little against any high level armour or shields due to no scaling. Shouldn't Pull be our CC go to? Why isn't that just improved?

Crush is now a somewhat nice shield restore and boost and although it has a decent augment in the form of Fracturing Crush, it's laughable that it caps out at 80% armour removal when Oberon and Frost can achieve 100% removal without an augment.

When is it that Mag will no longer be a meme? orz

[robbybe01234]

@[DE]Connor

Ember.

Is it possible to give WoF a charge mode that recreates the overheat effect inplace of fire panic and damage?  Base WoF losing its damage in place of reliable fire panic is acceptable if that damage can be shifted to her 1 and 3.  Her 4 can be given 2 modes, broadcast heat procs or self-defense.

This would give players options in combat and the ability to adjust play based on their evaluation of the enemies.  For example, too many Hyekka masters? Let's switch to overheat mode and use the extra damage from fire blast to handle the situation. More engaging than just toggle on and off?  And more players will have enemies to kill as they will be under fire panic, not dead.

My suggestions are iterations on what others here have written. 

[Braneman]

The power created avatar's change is amazing. Thank you.

[(PSN)lord_neckbone]

Awesome work but is vex armour is recastable can we make elemental ward te same ? 

 

Sooooo looking forward to the mag changes :)

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Will Gara self buff will have a ui? Sometimes when I use It. I can’t tell if it’s on myself or an enemy/friendly in front of me

[notpsion]

Well, let's talk about the things I was really happy to read first:

• passive bonuses not requiring an operator mode thing at the start (my keyboard needs love)
• Ember's Fire Blast giving you a damage buff  (Ember's 1-3 need love)
• Mag changes (Mag needs love)
• Nullifier changes (please consider expanding this to other abilities, they need love too! ;))

But two things which stand out to me as very uncomfortable to read? Ember's World on Fire and Banshee's Resoquake.

I'll start with Resoquake since I feel pretty strongly about this one: I thought the previous dev workshop idea was better. Being able to cast a quake and move was thematically consistent with Banshee's native 4 but with a cool modification brought on by the mod; the current idea seems like a fairly generic AOE. It's not in character with Banshee, imo. The previous idea gave you some CC/dot just like Banshee's native 4, this (seemingly?) does not. Please consider putting this one back the way you proposed before. I was actually excited to try that version of resoquake, because I saw some pretty cool possibilities there and I believe it's thematically/functionally superior as well. I am on board with Resoquake changing; it needs to happen. I am not on board with this implementation.

Ember, well. What I read was two goals for Ember: Reduce the ability to just afk-nuke all low level content while giving Ember the ability to compete in higher level content. The first goal seems likely to have been met. But I don't see the second goal as complete; where are the changes that are going to let ember take sortie-level enemies without getting deleted? I've read lots of ideas I like in this thread; if WOF moves to a high-range (i.e. current range) CC move rather than damage, and damage moves to 1/2/3 ...sure? Cool? But please don't kill the firequake-based CC range which is almost all Ember has for high-level content without something else to balance it out at the high level.

Anyway that's my two cents. I like a lot of changes, but for sure not all of them. Hope to see some of these changes get more time in dev until they come out right, looking forward to seeing some of these changes in my game ASAP.

 

[Neightrix]

3 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

The current outline for Fire Blast feels counter-intuitive to this. Not only does it heavily overlap with Ember's Fireball and Accelerant augs, it seems like it encourages standing in place, which isn't a good strategy even against Infested, and much less so for Ember in general given how squishy she is.

Two ideas:

1. Heat Procs are altered so as to "superheat" armour for the duration of their proc, allowing heat damage to burn the enemy through their armour, or more mechanically, modifying their heat damage resistance to a 1.9x weakness. Given how armour works, this would essentially allow heat damage to act as though 90% of the armour's current value didn't exist, and allow Fire Blast to become a 6-second window of significantly boosted damage even against armoured enemies in a huge area, rather than relying on Fireball and World on Fire to only proc heat on a limited quantity of enemies.
    
2. If you're feeling generous, Fire Blast itself causes a debuff against enemies which causes Heat Damage to gain Finisher Damage properties and strike directly against Cloned Flesh. While this one is certainly stronger than the prior, it also links it directly to Ember instead of heat procs in general, preventing her 1 and 4 from causing it, or any heat status weapon really.

I really like these ideas. Even if said finisher damage was only something like 20%, it would still be significant and give Ember more than what she has now, and more than the proposed changes.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

@[DE]Connor

Can you confirm whether the armor buff from vex armor (scorn) will remain the same?

[MagPrime]

8 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

MAG:

• Increased base energy pool (125 for Mag, 175 for Mag Prime).
• Crush animations slightly sped up
• Augment for Polarize reworked - now reads: "Weapons hit by Polarize are jammed for 4 seconds. Robotic enemies hit by Polarize are disabled for 4 seconds."

• Yes!
• How fast has it been sped up?  Shaving 2 seconds still counts as "slightly sped up" but is still rather worthless.
• Shield Transference no longer going to provide overshields?

[sharak214]

hopefully altot of the choice weapons i still have

 

[brewedjuice]

DONT GIVE ME STUPID USELESS REACTORS! I LITERALLY HAVE 20 I CANT USE. give me catalysts. something actually useful..

[radastir]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb [DE]Connor:

ASH:

• Reduced energy cost of Bladestorm ticks.
   

CHROMA:

• Vex Armor aura range increased (currently 18 meters base range).
• Vex Armor can now be recast to preserve accumulated buffs.
   

MAG:

• Increased base energy pool (125 for Mag, 175 for Mag Prime).
• Crush animations slightly sped up

 

As a bonus, two more general changes you'll be happy to hear:

• Focus Passives now apply immediately upon loading into a mission, rather than requiring the brief Operator transition.
• When interacting with nullifiers, power-created avatars (Atlas’ Rumblers, Nekros’ Shadows, etc) will have their health drained, instead of instantly disappearing.

 

These are great news, can hardly wait to try out the improved mechanics! Thank you a lot for your hard work! <3

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Looking forward to flash Accelerant + Fire Blast with my ignis! 

Question Will charged fireballs that pass through Fire Blast also get boosted Fire damage?

I think to quell everyone's CC complaint regarging ember have firequake do opposite scaling of regular World on Fire? After 15 seconds damage is halved but range doubled?

[..Symbiote.Streak..]

5 hours ago, Xsoskeleton said:

well u get new loadout slot for each 2 Mastery Ranks

Well, that's not enough as I say I only have 13 loadouts( includes 5 loadout that I bought) but there are more 50 Warframes in the game. What I mean is we should have like 2 loadouts each MR.  It is even good if they have more than number of warframe, we can make 2 load out like 1 for Wukong Defy build, 1 for Primal Rage build with different weapons in each build.

[Neightrix]

2 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

Question for WoF debaters: Is there a reason you can't just stack more range mods on than you did previously? Overextended in particular seems like it'd achieve pretty much turning the ability into its old range just with a higher channel cost. Of course Stretch will have reduced effectiveness, but...

I suppose if the range reduction only effected the range mods, it wouldn't be so bad.

But with how the change is stated, with Stretch and Overextended, it gets brought back to roughtly 17.5m, just barely larger than the 15m base range. Without Overextended, you're getting 13m or less, approaching 10m range of the longest melee weapons. The other issue with being forced into Overextended mean a strength nerf to her Accelerant, which effects not only her World on Fire, but also Flash Accelerant augment - resulting in an offensively weaker Ember with less range overall.

[Winterbraid]

2 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

Question for WoF debaters: Is there a reason you can't just stack more range mods on than you did previously? Overextended in particular seems like it'd achieve pretty much turning the ability into its old range just with a higher channel cost. Of course Stretch will have reduced effectiveness, but...

The problem is that the current unmodded 15m is already pretty low and 7.5m is just laughable, there are melee weapons that can hit from 10m away. Corrupted mods are relatively hard to get and in my opinion their point should be to push your frame further in one field for a price, they shouldn't be required just to make something workable.

[POIKILO]

17 minutes ago, Neightrix said:

I suppose if the range reduction only effected the range mods, it wouldn't be so bad.

But with how the change is stated, with Stretch and Overextended, it gets brought back to roughtly 17.5m, just barely larger than the 15m base range. Without Overextended, you're getting 13m or less, approaching 10m range of the longest melee weapons. The other issue with being forced into Overextended mean a strength nerf to her Accelerant, which effects not only her World on Fire, but also Flash Accelerant augment - resulting in an offensively weaker Ember with less range overall.

WoF also has a mechanic that hurts it in extreme range builds, though it's only really felt when you're playing in high level content.

Source

Quote

*Currently, extreme range does not benefit WoF at high levels much because WoF can only target so many things at a time. With high range, there will be more possible targets, but since they don't die from the blasts, WoF will mostly hit the nearest enemies. This results in effective CC range being smaller than theoretical max range. In other words: WoF already has a mechanic that prevents it from being OP with high-range builds. The problem is that this penalty only kicks in at high levels.

 

[silentwarrior8902]

9 hours ago, Skaleek said:

What?! Hit enemies once? Did you give it a crazy damage boost? This seems like a monumental nerf to the ability, and the augment.

No, that is not it. It will only hit them once it grows out. Not it will hit them once, you missed the grows out. 

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, silentwarrior8902 said:

No, that is not it. It will only hit them once it grows out. Not it will hit them once, you missed the grows out. 

It says once AS it grows out.

[Hixlysss]

So, wait, y'all aren't changing embers ult nor are you changing volts? Man I liked the changes to volt...

[KunoUshinawa]

2 minutes ago, Hixlysss said:

So, wait, y'all aren't changing embers ult nor are you changing volts? Man I liked the changes to volt...

This is just to update us on what "new" ideas they have. So the old still applies unless stated otherwise... As far as I understand.

[Hixlysss]

Just now, Uzkost said:

This is just to update us on what "new" ideas they have. So the old still applies unless stated otherwise... As far as I understand.

If that was true why repeat mentioning the buff to mag's energy?

[Dragazer]

Can we get clarification on vex armor changes?

On 2/2/2018 at 2:03 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Instead of [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor], it is now [Base * (Vex + Mods)], like all other damage boosting abilities.

You say that all other dmg boosting abilties in the game work this way but it seems to be incorrect.

The formula posted seems to show that vex armor will now be additive to mods, but with every single Warframe ability I can think of that boosts dmg they are always multiplicative with mods: Mirage eclipse, rhino roar, octavia amp, nova AMD and m prime, banshee sonar, have all increased damage by being multiplicative after already accounting for base and mods.

The only issue I can think of was the whole double and triple dipping vex armor dmg with innate and modded dual elementals

This statement seems to only make sense if formula was meant for armor, as far as I know armor buffing abilties seem to be only additive with mods.

[WindigoTG]

8 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

CHROMA:

• Vex Armor can now be recast to preserve accumulated buffs.

So, can we expect the same for Mirage's Hall of Mirrors now?

 

And I'd rather have it reverted to how it worked before too (all 4 clones shoot for less damage each).

[Farris]

9 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

When interacting with nullifiers, power-created avatars (Atlas’ Rumblers, Nekros’ Shadows, etc) will have their health drained, instead of instantly disappearing.

FINALLY \O/