Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2

[Geronimo_r]

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

We may rebalance Ore Gaze for this rework, as players now have significantly more ways to Petrify enemies!

We have to sacrifice a mod slot to get that extra loot.
Just don't do the same as Nekros.. reducing the loot chance to 60% or what ever.. don't make him inconsistant aswell :(

Nekros is a passive looting, I understand why that got "lowered/nerfed" to just 60% of the time it doubles the loot..
But Atlas requires an active casting, to petrify. 

[NinjasPlay4Fun]

No change over separate counter for Splinter Storm 

[Funcooker]

Can you make petrified enemies and rumblers use Atlas' energy color instead of poop brown?
 

[Acersecomic]

"Although still a singular cast allowing free movement, Resonating Quake will only hit enemies once as it expands outward, dealing a mass of damage at once. "

Cool thing about the Quake was it's CC capability. Will enemies still get staggered by the Quake? If not, a name change is in order as well... sad day for Banshee players around the world... focus farming got hit again.

[(PSN)SentientSickness]

3 hours ago, Cryptix123 said:

I was thinking a few days ago that enemies killed by soul punch should become spectres like shadow of the dead. Would that work?

Back to the topic, thanks DE for the Atlas buffs! I was doing his quest for the sake of completion-ism but now I'm actually going to build him! 

it did in his prime trailor

[legendarysidekicksteve]

One small suggestion for Ember's Fireball.

Standing on the Napalm generated by the charged Fireball will trigger Ember's passive ability (without actually taking fire damage). This allows for synergy with her passive to boost two important stats as a caster frame: power strength and energy regeneration.

Otherwise these changes look great! Look forward to testing them out later this week.

[POIKILO]

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

EMBER:

• Fireball can now be held and charged for additional damage. Upon impact, Fireball will leave behind a Napalm-like flame that damages enemies.
• Fire Blast will now add heat damage to weapons that fire through it.

@[DE]Connor

No word about World on Fire? What about the exponential enemy health/armor scaling?

Fireball

• Still fairly useless. Will the damage scale with enemy levels?
• Why the gimmick of "hold to charge" for additional damage? Wouldn't it be simpler to make it so Fireball does scaling damage with the press of one button? I get you guys want to make the game more interactive but this feels contrived rather than thought-out.
• The Napalm-like flame effect is a good suggestion, but still a gimmick because as it stands now (and even in the proposed change) Fireball is a fairly useless ability unless Ember has the augment for it.

Fire Blast

• The additional heat damage buff is nice!

World on Fire

• Lots of people have given their feedback on the previous thread. I think it'd be polite to at least let those players know you, DE, read their concerns and comments by mentioning something related to WoF here. So far, the suggestion for reworking WoF I liked the most was reduce the damage WoF does with increased range. Some Ember mains would even prefer to have WoF ditch its damage entirely but keep its range and CC. 
• Part I and Part II - there's a good amount of testing done here showcasing why the proposed WoF changes are a huge nerf. Please, please re-read Part I again and please hold off on reworking Ember so soon. For such drastic changes, it might be better to spend more time hashing out details and working with the community to find a good balance for Ember.

Another thing that would be nice is if we could see more developers, not just Rebecca (who very kindly hosted a live stream for us!), showcase the Warframes with the proposed changes. Livestreams like running Ember in a group setting through a sortie mission, for example would be a great way to connect with us players so we know you guys are experiencing the game along with us. It'd also be a good opportunity to show how proposed changes affect gameplay too. Livestreams like the one Rebecca hosted are nice, but solo play and low level content are not the only aspects of the game.

 

[Wiz3rd]

I've already said it in the previous thread, but I'm gonna say it again:

If these changes come to pass, I'm done with Ember.

I thought DE listened to the community, I was waiting for this thread and for them to try and change things up again or just revert the changes until they figure something out, but no such thing happened.

I'm extremely disappointed that they didn't even address all the feedback.

I feel like all of it was in vain.

I will stay vocal about this, because it is absolute BS.

[(PSN)Tego818]

Gara should only lose her glass armor when casting Splinter Storm on herself, makes it easier to tell where your buff isn't when there's a timer up.

[Calvyr]

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• Vex Armor can now be recast to preserve accumulated buffs.

Hands down, the BEST change in this list. Don't question it, it is simply the best change.

[(XBOX)Grife7]

The ember changes still aren't giving her any survivability. That would be fine if her damage was actually worth something at higher levels. Then she could rely on her damage to kill the enemy before they kill her. Although this would make her a very powerful damaging frame consider making her fireball do finishing damage when charged. Being able to leave patches of powerful finishing damage napalm would increase her survivability by giving her the means to kill her target before they can get to her. She would still be super squishy, but would actually fill her role of being  high damaging warframe in high levels as well as the low. 

[Huanthus]

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Fire Blast will now add heat damage to weapons that fire through it.

Just add a damage reduction inside of the ring and we are all set

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

BANSHEE:

• Although still a singular cast allowing free movement, Resonating Quake will only hit enemies once as it expands outward, dealing a mass of damage at once.

Can we cast it several times or it overwrites the damage? 

 

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

ZEPHYR:

• Tail Wind now costs half as much energy when cast in the air.
• Tail Wind does more damage.
• Changed Dive Bomb augment into a Tail Wind augment - now reads: “Each enemy hit increases Tail Wind damage by 25%. Damage resets upon landing.”
• Dive Bomb can now fire on slight angles, as long as you’re looking mostly down.
• (Clarification: holding aim (default RMB) has a greater effect on steering Tornadoes.)

If we could lift enemies with the tail wind (like suck em up think of it as mag's passive) and take em with us it would be fun and useful as it would assure cc and damage on a large ammount of enemies

[LuminousShot]

I'm very worried that the Chroma Vex Armor change is misguided because the results I see in game don't match the math that was explained in the last dev workshop.

So far I was under the impression that the problem with his damage being too high came from Vex Armor's interaction with damage types, not with mods.

In the Q&A of the previous post it was stated that the current formula is [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor] which results in Chroma being able to oneshot Terralyst parts. However, isn't there a weird behavior with Vex Armor being applied multiple times, depending on weapon damage types? I believe it was something along the lines of weapons without dual elemental damage types function as it was described in the Q&A. Weapons that were modded to have a dual element function like this [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor * Vex Armor] and weapons with innate dual elements like this [(Base * Mods) * VA * VA * VA]

Let's use some values. Lanka deals 525 damage with a 2* crit multiplier. Let's assume a crit here. That would be 1050 electric damage.

Modded I have 9758 (2358 toxin 7400 radiation) damage with a 8.2* crit multiplier. So a total of 80,000 damage on a crit.

With Vex armor I get 474% bonus damage, so the highest number I should possibly see on a crit would be 460,000 (80,000 * 5.74) Sorry for rounding so wildly, but the differences I'm trying to point out are so large that my rounding shouldn't be the issue.

When I shoot a corrupted bombard in the simulacrum at its lowest level I crit for roughly 36,000. No headshots, stealth, or combo multiplier.

With Vex Armor, I crit for 1,117,000. It shouldn't even be necessary at this point but that is indeed more than 36,000*5,74 and even more than what should be possible without the enemy's armor, as described above.

Even though there is a slight error I can't really explain, this is closer to 36,000*5,74² (1,186,000).

So, my problem with this change is, what will the result be? If the change described in the Q&A is made [Base * (Vex + Mods)]. Will this be the truth, regardless of weapon damage, and for my example we're looking at something like [1050 * (5.74 + 76.2)] = 86,000 => 7.5% more than the 80,000 we have without vex.

[76.2 = factor to get from unmodded crit to modded crit]

Or will it be this [1050 * (5.74² + 76.2)] = 114,600 => 43% more than without Vex, which is less than a rhino roar at base power strength. Of course, that would mean there are still the other two cases where Vex is applied 1 or 3 times, which are equally stupid.

Bottom line is, if mods and vex are added together, one will drown out the other, regardless if the strange damage type dependent behavior remains or is patched out. To me the only reasonable answer can be to actually fix said behavior and let vex remain fully multiplicative with modded damage.

Who knows, maybe that is what is actually being done with the patch, but in that case the explanation was very misleading.

 

 

[Tau.]

Alright, I like this progress.

 

However I must stress: Ember's kit still wholly lacks any defense, unless the Fireblast ring will also get enemy-projectile-negating function like a Volt Shield, or if she could get some kind of damage reduction factor while standing in her fire sources (Fireblast or Fireball napalm spots).

 

The Atlas changes look promising, so long as the Petrify animation isn't too lengthy. 

 

Will Mag's Polarize augment be affected by duration mods? If so, she may finally get a place on the roster again \o/

[-.Absolute_Zero.-]

.

[DreamsmithJane]

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Although still a singular cast allowing free movement, Resonating Quake will only hit enemies once as it expands outward, dealing a mass of damage at once.

Oh, good. I was worried I'd actually have a reason to use my 4 key when playing Banshee. If it's just an omnidirectional Sonic Boom, I can safely continue ignoring it.

Seriously, other than AFK focus farmers, nobody wanted this for damage anyway. Why take away the CC?

[Cornelius.EE]

16 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• Fireball can now be held and charged for additional damage. Upon impact, Fireball will leave behind a Napalm-like flame that damages enemies.
• Fire Blast will now add heat damage to weapons that fire through it.

I appreciate the Devs looking more into Ember. However, the previously proposed WoF changes will have a much greater impact on her than any changes to her 1 and 3 could. I've given extensive feedback on the WoF change here and here. Please address the huge problems with the WoF change first.

Fire Blast: It's currently useless (less effective CC than Accelerant because (1)  Accelerant CC's things in place so you can keep shooting them instead of running to look for them, (2) the blast does not trigger on targets that are already on fire so it's unreliable, and (3) it costs more energy). Any positive changes to the ability are welcome. Added damage while shooting through it will stack with buffs from Fireball Frenzy and Flash Accelerant and will be awesome. Thank you! Could you please also make the ring radius scale with ability range the way Frost's globe does?

Fireball: Added Fireball damage from charging will likely not deal more damage that simply shooting the enemy instead, unless it is a lot of added damage (like a 50x buff). A key question: will the fire pool left over be able to proc heat? Simply dealing damage over time is irrelevant at high levels. CC on the other hand is always welcome.

The current uses of Fireball are:
(1) Buffing allies with Fireball Frenzy
(2) Single target emergency CC while reloading (it's Ember's only one-handed ability)

A better change that would still work at high levels is to increase ability AoE and make AoE range scale with ability range and chance to proc heat on things around the primary target scale with ability strength.

[77tigon]

Can we make natural talent a exilus mod , or can we put some more augment in the exilus. For example Banshee have 4 great augment now and i already have 2 in my build. As well as someone like Saryn who need a balance build that need to have a bit of everything, I can's free up a slot without breaking my build. THX!!!!

[Fate_Epsylon]

I'll be honest.

I still think inflicting 1-2% of the enemy's maximum health as damage to enemies affected by Ember's heat procs (only from her abilities) per tick would fix her almost immediately or, at the very least, bring her up to snuff with every other frame in the damage dept.

If she at least received this, I'd be a VERY happy camper & I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other people agree with me.

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

4 minutes ago, 77tigon said:

Can we make natural talent a exilus mod , or can we put some more augment in the exilus. For example Banshee have 4 great augment now and i already have 2 in my build. As well as someone like Saryn who need a balance build that need to have a bit of everything, I can's free up a slot without breaking my build. THX!!!!

Or you know they can add Augment slots like everyone has been asking for ages.

[Carbonitepon8]

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

ATLAS:

 

• Petrify is now a single cast instead of a channel ability, instantly Petrifying enemies in front of you regardless of level!
• Rubble now has a singular decay, instead of each piece of rubble having its own set duration. Picking up more rubble delays the decay for a brief time.
• We may rebalance Ore Gaze for this rework, as players now have significantly more ways to Petrify enemies!
   

okay but then how are we to buff bulwark and heal rumblers if its a quick press and not a channel?

[SoulHunter2008]

7 hours ago, lookinerator said:

Ember still needs some survivability.

Overheat anyone?

 

7 hours ago, i_Lex said:

Step in the good direction. Though I must say, bringing back overheat as an ability over fireball or fireblast would greatly please most people in this community!

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Overheat 

This, all the this! Fireball is fine with this last change. Add accelerent effect to fire blast wave and make her 2 overheat that is almost exactly like gara glass but with fire and only cast on ember.

[shubelppA]

Zephyr's turbulence might need some visual update. Casting it in PoE at night makes it hard to see other enemies because the power visual effect is quite bright with brighter energy colors.

[KunoUshinawa]

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

First of all, the Warframe changes are also coming with a HUGE rebalancing of guns (as can be seen here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/916505-dev-workshop-weapons-mastery-ranks-and-stats/ ). We expect an exciting release week as players try out the changes, rework their builds, and rediscover old favorites. To help this along, we’ve got some special rewards lined up:

• Login within 7 days of the update for an inbox message containing 3 x Forma and a 3 Day Affinity booster!
• Console player will receive the same inbox message, by logging in when they get the build with aforementioned changes.
• AFTER Friday's Devstream, ALL platforms will get BONUS Gift from the Lotus alerts this weekend with Orokin Reactors!

So I'm really not tryirng to sound negative but: Yay? So I guess a full refund of forma and my reactor for Ember is ok.

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

ATLAS:

• Petrify is now a single cast instead of a channel ability, instantly Petrifying enemies in front of you regardless of level!
• Rubble now has a singular decay, instead of each piece of rubble having its own set duration. Picking up more rubble delays the decay for a brief time.
• We may rebalance Ore Gaze for this rework, as players now have significantly more ways to Petrify enemies!

Wonderful, can't wait to actually get my hands on Atlas now.

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

BANSHEE:

• Although still a singular cast allowing free movement, Resonating Quake will only hit enemies once as it expands outward, dealing a mass of damage at once.

I'm not sure this is that great... but at least I don't have to deal with standing around on hydron waiting to get out when a quake Banshee is in the group.

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

CHROMA:

• Can cast other abilities while using Spectral Scream.
• Spectral Scream damage now affected by Vex Armor damage buff.
• Vex Armor aura range increased (currently 18 meters base range).
• Vex Armor can now be recast to preserve accumulated buffs.

Wonderful. This is, wow.

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

MAG:

• Increased base energy pool (125 for Mag, 175 for Mag Prime).
• Crush animations slightly sped up
• Augment for Polarize reworked - now reads: "Weapons hit by Polarize are jammed for 4 seconds. Robotic enemies hit by Polarize are disabled for 4 seconds."

Is the augment affected by duration? If yes: Perfect. If no: Can we get 6 seconds instead of 4?

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

As a bonus, two more general changes you'll be happy to hear:

• Focus Passives now apply immediately upon loading into a mission, rather than requiring the brief Operator transition.
• When interacting with nullifiers, power-created avatars (Atlas’ Rumblers, Nekros’ Shadows, etc) will have their health drained, instead of instantly disappearing.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

EMBER:

• Fireball can now be held and charged for additional damage. Upon impact, Fireball will leave behind a Napalm-like flame that damages enemies.
• Fire Blast will now add heat damage to weapons that fire through it.

If these were the only things happening, cool. I still say you need to reconsider what you're doing to her 4. I'd rather her 4 deal 1 damage a tick than do what you've suggested. Honestly I don't want to have to Forma my Equinox to do low level alerts like I did with Ember, and Equinox can't CC like Ember does so I loose a warframe option for sorties if you do as planned.

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

ZEPHYR:

 

• Tail Wind now costs half as much energy when cast in the air.
• Tail Wind does more damage.
• Changed Dive Bomb augment into a Tail Wind augment - now reads: “Each enemy hit increases Tail Wind damage by 25%. Damage resets upon landing.”
• Dive Bomb can now fire on slight angles, as long as you’re looking mostly down.
• (Clarification: holding aim (default RMB) has a greater effect on steering Tornadoes.)

This one I'm actually excited to see, maybe give her a second passive of 3x aim glide time? I do like her air "float" mechanic.

8 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

ASH:

• Reduced energy cost of Bladestorm ticks.

GARA:

• Health gained by Mass Vitrify shown in a UI display.

VOLT:

• No changes at this time.

Sorry but, Ashs' kit is still bad, not saying you need to jump on that but I still think he needs a minor overhaul.
Don't play Volt, Probably never will.
As for Gara, I really hope this makes her good again, but her 3 really needs help.

[jiminatorx]

Does anyone actually read these comments, aside from "ember mains are upset"...

Standing in place to charge a fireball is not good. Just give it 100% AoE knockdown and done, it is useable and will be used.

Standing in place to shoot through a fireblast is not good. Is this supposed to be a volt thing but without any shield abilities?  Make it a shield or do DR or something where standing in place can be done safely.

The changes to WoF are not good. Granted something is necessary because of the multitudes of videos of ember dancing while everyone dies.  Change the ability to make it more of a team based damage buff. Leave range and drain alone. PLEASE if you do nothing else, leave range alone. Make damage scale to 0 at the edges and 100% in the center. Leave firequake alone.  Give team mates a 100% damage buff against affected enemies. This is only what, 5 at a time. Problem solved.

Everyone gets their kills, everyone is happy.