Dev Workshop: Beam Weapons Revisited!

[Jivy]

thx

[terribleperson]

3 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Despite the fact that I repeatedly mentioned throughout my post the idea that working status chance could change everything for beam weapons, it seems you missed it.

Same story here.  If status works, then Corrosive works.  If status DOES NOT WORK, then your damage calculations run face-first into this brick wall called "armor scaling".

No, armor is NEVER a separate issue when we're talking about the damage output of a weapon.  Crit stacks it's multipliers beautifully, and I DID consider the difference having nearly 4x the base damage would make.

I also didn't claim the weapon is dead, but rather that the prognosis is troubling.  Until we status work on Beam Weapons, I'm correct in this assessment, sorry to say. 

We know (it wasn't clearly explained in this workshop, but a tweet clarified it) that status/sec is dead.

Also, armor IS irrelevant to this comparison. Crit synergizes with itself, and scales nicely, yes. It doesn't interact with status or armor in a unique way, however. My math (seriously, check it out, page 14) includes the crit level and headshot multipliers. Hunter munitions amprex builds will see the same damage increase.

[(PSN)Fairfied]

not happy bout the nerfs to synapse and amprex

[ShadowFel]

This sound like it could be quite good...though I have many questions, I will withhold my judgement until the changes arrive.  I am very confused by some changes, but they don't seem like bad changes, so I'm happy for now. 

Couple questions that I guess I can't withhold: The Glaxion's "freeze" damage means cold, right?  And what about Panthera?  It wasn't touched in this or the general weapon revisit.  I'm assuming that means its stats are staying as is, but does that mean it will become the only weapon with a status/sec mechanic?

[DaMasque]

13 hours ago, TheEternalJester said:

You're thinking of the Acrid, not the Embolist. Embolist is the gas-spewing pistol. Acrid launches the darts.

Why not both? 

Acrid is still a good weapon will do innate toxic procs even if you combine the base element.

Embolist, on the other hand, sounds redundant and needs something to spice it up a bit. 

Maybe, I'm just a bit pushy on Mei's ice gun.

[Cytobel]

49 minutes ago, terribleperson said:

We know (it wasn't clearly explained in this workshop, but a tweet clarified it) that status/sec is dead.

Also, armor IS irrelevant to this comparison. Crit synergizes with itself, and scales nicely, yes. It doesn't interact with status or armor in a unique way, however. My math (seriously, check it out, page 14) includes the crit level and headshot multipliers. Hunter munitions amprex builds will see the same damage increase.

Okay, perhaps our problem here is that tone is rather difficult to communicate via the written word.  I'm rather on the fence with Amprex in this proposed iteneration, but I disapprove of the loss of crit entirely.  Weird, yeah, but I'm just not a fan here, math be damned.  It's sort of the thing the Amprex DOES.

Speaking of math, I AM calling bullS#&$ on the loss of range.  That's flagrantly brutal to this weapon, and is an vicious nerf.  14m is VERY close to melee range in Warframe, which really seems to start at around 10m (for better or worse, Primed Reach being a thing).  We'll be essentially required to run a range mod, which means losing something that otherwise boosted damage output.  Cutting range on the Amprex may well be the worst aspect of this alteration, and I'm surprised I didn't note this sooner.  Seriously, running a non-Electric elemental combo in the weapon is looking very tricky right about now, presuming someone is going all-in on crit (as per Amprex).

You're correct to note that the damage numbers do climb.  Additionally, I failed to note the .2x crit multiplier increase.  Sad to say, I'm not happy to see that at a cost of 4m range.

[AlexGod44]

If anyone wants an amprex riven PM me ingame. 

+43.6% Zoom

+65.4% Multishot

+131.2% Damage

MR14

[terribleperson]

6 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Okay, perhaps our problem here is that tone is rather difficult to communicate via the written word.  I'm rather on the fence with Amprex in this proposed iteneration, but I disapprove of the loss of crit entirely.  Weird, yeah, but I'm just not a fan here, math be damned.  It's sort of the thing the Amprex DOES.

Speaking of math, I AM calling bullS#&$ on the loss of range.  That's flagrantly brutal to this weapon, and is an vicious nerf.  14m is VERY close to melee range in Warframe, which really seems to start at around 10m (for better or worse, Primed Reach being a thing).  We'll be essentially required to run a range mod, which means losing something that otherwise boosted damage output.  Cutting range on the Amprex may well be the worst aspect of this alteration, and I'm surprised I didn't note this sooner.  Seriously, running a non-Electric elemental combo in the weapon is looking very tricky right about now, presuming someone is going all-in on crit (as per Amprex).

You're correct to note that the damage numbers do climb.  I failed to note the .2x crit multiplier increase.  Sad to say, I'm not happy to see that at a cost of 4m range.

Yeah, I'm more than a little upset at that range nerf. It was already an extremely short-ranged weapon. Now it'll be pretty much unusable on the plains, even with Sinister Reach. It's going to be a pain on large open maps, too, like the Ambulas Reborn boss fight. I was already treating Sinister Reach as a mandatory mod for some beam weapons (particularly Amprex), but I was hoping they'd fix that, not make it worse.

I really loved Amprex having 50% crit. The red crits brought me joy. I can live without them, though. I understand why they didn't want 50% crit on a chaining continuous fire weapon. I don't understand why they took it from the Synapse, though.

 

 

 

 

[Daskrieg]

12 hours ago, iceyShardZ said:

i'm ONLY okay with these changes to the glaxion if you are planning to release a glaxion vandal with more crit chance!!

also with this low of a crit chance you need to make it that it decays slower or grows to more than 100% damage

only saying that because it seems like all the other ones got crit buffs except for it! (although this status amount may be crazy good,would have to see,

definitely release glaxion vandal nontheless!!)

i would like to see a glaxion vandal as well, a cycron vandal would also seem fun to have, maybe they might even release a flux rifle vandal, im reall intrested in seeing how well the cycron operates after they implement these changes, i take it out every now and then but for me i do find it to be a fun secondary, i will even be able to remove the reload speed mod i have on it if the recharge timer is reduced even more and add another damage mod.

[Cytobel]

10 minutes ago, terribleperson said:

Yeah, I'm more than a little upset at that range nerf. It was already an extremely short-ranged weapon. Now it'll be pretty much unusable on the plains, even with Sinister Reach. It's going to be a pain on large open maps, too, like the Ambulas Reborn boss fight. I was already treating Sinister Reach as a mandatory mod for some beam weapons (particularly Amprex), but I was hoping they'd fix that, not make it worse.

I really loved Amprex having 50% crit. The red crits brought me joy. I can live without them, though. I understand why they didn't want 50% crit on a chaining continuous fire weapon. I don't understand why they took it from the Synapse, though.

 

 

 

 

B-because...  the Synapse is.....  supposed to...  ...suck?

I have no idea here.  Logic to taking away crit from the Synapse utterly escapes me.  Also, why the fresh hells is it listed as a CORROSIVE weapon???  I do NOT need another Infested Ignis knockoff, Corrosive or not.  Fact is, I'm thinking about logging in to sell it now.  The Synapse is the weapon that I became so disgusted with while leveling that I actually vomited.  I hate it that much (don't ask, I just LOATHE the Synapse).

Leveling Amprex the very first time was about as bad right until level 29.  I distinctly recall seeing how it could be something if I fed it Forma upon Forma.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

WAIT!!!  I vomited almost pure bile and acid when I leveled the Synapse!  A Corrosive Synapse TOTALLY makes sense now! (No, I'm not kidding or saying this for effect, I actually became so disgusted with the weapon I became sick while playing it).

[(PSN)Semyazza1985]

17 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Ignis Wraith

Status Chance 29%

[Cytobel]

DE, I just did a triple-take on the Cycron rework.  25% Puncture, 25% Slash, and 50% RADIATION?!?

I LIKE this idea, particularly if it's still auto-proccing Fire on no other status procs.

I could go for something similar on, say, a Flux Rifle.  Just add 22 base Radiation damage to it and I'd call that workable (YES, that's 44 base damage in total).

[Godzilla853]

Why lower Amprex 50% crit chance?

[Fuleng]

16 hours ago, DaftTechno said:

Amprex damage up from 7 to 24, and crit damage up by 0.2, but fire rate down from 20 to 12, crit chance down from 50% to 32%, range down from 18m to 14m. So overall a major nerf IMO.

According to "Paper" this is a substantial buff (calculated with a decent riven). Range is an issue though, since 14m is like orthos prime range

[OvisCaedo]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

...What part of Ignis Wraith having 29% status could possibly be a big issue? It's actually a massive increase in status chance over what it has now, given how bad status per second is as a system.

...Are you upset that it's going to be JUST short of 100%? Because having 98% status chance is not actually worse in any meaningful capacity compared to having 100% on a weapon that's not innately multishot.

[Azure.M]

18 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Synoid Gammacor

Mastery Rank 7

Damage 20 Magnetic

Status Chance 28%

Critical Chance 20%

Reload 1.8 secs

Magazine 80/400 Capacity

30m Range

.5 Ammo requirement

Did you forget to list the fire rate? Judging by the lower base damage I guess it's still going to be ammo-hungry though :(
I miss old Synoid. It was so cool. You can reduce the dps but I just want a beam that I can keep on constantly, is that really too much to ask?
Apparently, because it looks like you've killed the Quanta Vandal's ammo effeciency too. Bumped up to 12 fire rate and it doesn't even get the half ammo use because of the double beam?

Is Cycron seriously my best option now? It's not going to run out of ammo but it's still going to need 2 seconds reloading every 5 seconds :/

 

[Daskrieg]

im starting to think they need to do something like they did with orange and red crits with status chance as well making any status chance that goes over 100% either do additional damage or cause a double proc since all these reworks to beam weapons seem to be handing out alot of status chance boosts, would be fun to maybe even have all status chances over 100% add to the base damage in some way or make their way over to the weapons crit chance, not sure how that would work out but its something to think about.

[SaiSoul7895]

Why DE? Why? I spent 8 formas on my synapse just to get a good crit build and now you're nerfing it from 50% to 39% ?   Can you atleast refund the forma I spent ? 

 

[iceyShardZ]

Just now, SaiSoul7895 said:

Why DE? Why? I spent 8 formas on my synapse just to get a good crit build and now you're nerfing it from 50% to 39% ?   Can you atleast refund the forma I spent ? 

 

bruh,innate corrossive,cmmon...

[SaiSoul7895]

1 minute ago, iceyShardZ said:

bruh,innate corrossive,cmmon...

And that's good why? The innate corrosive damage value is still too low with a status chance of 13% 

I run a riven with hunters munitions build and this change is going to destroy that build. Wouldn't matter if they atleast refund the forma. I spent a lot of time in modding that weapon. This reduction in cc IS a serious nerf

[trndr]

4 minutes ago, SaiSoul7895 said:

And that's good why? The innate corrosive damage value is still too low with a status chance of 13% 

I run a riven with hunters munitions build and this change is going to destroy that build. Wouldn't matter if they atleast refund the forma. I spent a lot of time in modding that weapon. This reduction in cc IS a serious nerf

If you have a crit chance riven, you'll see lower numbers but a lot more of them. So relax at current proposed changes your build will go from meh, to good.

[(PSN)Semyazza1985]

18 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said:

40 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

...What part of Ignis Wraith having 29% status could possibly be a big issue? It's actually a massive increase in status chance over what it has now, given how bad status per second is as a system.

...Are you upset that it's going to be JUST short of 100%? Because having 98% status chance is not actually worse in any meaningful capacity compared to having 100% on a weapon that's not innately multishot.

Maybe because I am againts turning everything into "AverageFrame/AverageWeapon" if I wan't running with lower than 100% status ingnis I will choose normal one not wraith variant. So yes decrese 1% SC on Ignis Wraith is a big deal.

[ganjou234]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

YES! YES! YOU DONT UNDERSTAND!

Status/sec is being removed.

[iceyShardZ]

9 minutes ago, SaiSoul7895 said:

And that's good why? The innate corrosive damage value is still too low with a status chance of 13% 

I run a riven with hunters munitions build and this change is going to destroy that build. Wouldn't matter if they atleast refund the forma. I spent a lot of time in modding that weapon. This reduction in cc IS a serious nerf

ive got a suggestion,

this is only a workshop,it hadn't been released yet,my recommendation is that you record yourself killing some heavy gunners now with your synapse,and then try it with the same build afterwards,and see if it changes for the better or worse

since they are changing the type of status,13% is not that bad for an innate corrosive weapon

[SaiSoul7895]

1 minute ago, iceyShardZ said:

ive got a suggestion,

this is only a workshop,it hadn't been released yet,my recommendation is that you record yourself killing some heavy gunners now with your synapse,and then try it with the same build afterwards,and see if it changes for the better or worse

since they are changing the type of status,13% is not that bad for an innate corrosive weapon

This is actually a good suggestion. I'll do it now.

Do I post the video on discord or here ?