Heavy Scythes, and the Dark Split Sword.

[Carnage2K4]

I've just been watching Devstream 109 and I'm up to the talk about Scythes becoming 'Heavy Blade' weapons, I don't see a thread on this so I figured some dialog on this would be good.

This concept will affect me quite a lot, to clarify I main a Nekros with, what I would call a unique personal build I've refined over 2 years of WF, I play a Channelling Melee build with Reaper Prime and a riven with 246% Channelling Damage and 274% Melee Damage. I've even altered the Stance Polarity to use Stalking Fan, so I'm highly invested in this Scythe.

So ultimately I'm both interested in the Heavy Scythe changes, but worried about them also.
Which brings me to another concept in WF, the Dark Split Sword: "The Dark Split-Sword is a melee weapon with the unique ability to change weapon type depending on the Stance mod with which it is equipped: a double-ended greatsword when equipped with Heavy Blade stances, or wielded as two separate blades when using Dual Sword stances."

What if Scythes stood out as unique (aside from the DSS) as being able to switch stance from small (as they are now) to a Heavy Blade stance (the new versions) as defined by the stance you use? I don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds given that the small version already exists, and the new large/heavy blades are clearly being worked on anyway.

Thoughts on this? Might even make them feel a little Darksiders 2'ish... (Death in DS2 uses dual single handed scythes that combine into a large one when used in heavy attacks)

Edited April 13, 2018 by Carnage2K4

[Omega]

I don't using two types of stances are even needed.  I don't see a single soul using scythes outside grinding MR fodder at Hydron.  Compared to the heavy blade stances, the scythes stances right now are already so weak and feel clunky to use - there would be no incentive to use scythe stances after the changes.

Edited April 13, 2018 by VengefulMaelstrom

[Hixlysss]

3 minutes ago, VengefulMaelstrom said:

I don't using two types of stances are even needed.  I don't see a single soul using scythes outside grinding MR fodder at Hydron.  Compared to the heavy blade stances, the scythes stances right now are already so weak and feel clunky to use - there would be no incentive to use scythe stances after the changes.

So what you're saying is the stances need to be reworked.

[Omega]

Just now, Hixlysss said:

So what you're saying is the stances need to be reworked.

With the upcoming melee rebalance/rework, stances are already getting looked at anyways

[Carnage2K4]

3 minutes ago, VengefulMaelstrom said:

I don't see a single soul using scythes

-.-
Well, just because you don't notice them does not mean they don't exist.. Case in point; I use mine daily as the main weapon on my main frame...
Choice is always better than straight up replacement if both are valid forms of play.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

8 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

Thoughts on this?

from the Outset, the Dark Split Sword should have had it's own unique stance with combos that switch between forms, much like the more advanced weapon combos in Bloodborne. that would've at least given the weapon an interesting gimmick, and possibly opened the door for more transformational weapons in the future. instead, it's nothing more than MR fodder.

as for the changes, I definitely prefer Heavy Blade Stances over Scythe ones, but I can't help but feel like this will be something DE changes and then never looks at again. DSS was added roughly two years ago and has been touched ever since.

 

[Hixlysss]

6 minutes ago, VengefulMaelstrom said:

With the upcoming melee rebalance/rework, stances are already getting looked at anyways

If that is the case I have no idea why DE is even considering removing scythe stances. Are they really that irredeemable?

[Dragonofdarkness13]

16 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

 So ultimately I'm both interested in the Heavy Scythe changes, but worried about them also.
Which brings me to another concept in WF, the Dark Split Sword: "The Dark Split-Sword is a melee weapon with the unique ability to change weapon type depending on the Stance mod with which it is equipped: a double-ended greatsword when equipped with Heavy Blade stances, or wielded as two separate blades when using Dual Sword stances."

I suggested the same thing over in my thread, glad to see others on the same page XD
 

12 minutes ago, VengefulMaelstrom said:

I don't using two types of stances are even needed.  I don't see a single soul using scythes outside grinding MR fodder at Hydron.  Compared to the heavy blade stances, the scythes stances right now are already so weak and feel clunky to use - there would be no incentive to use scythe stances after the changes.

one of the best things about this game is that it has a lot of CHOICE in play style ... there is your reason and incentive ~

[Erebus_Nacht]

The dark Split sword was meant to be a double saber that split in half to make dual swords with a charge attack. It was rushed out for that livestream that had that skin.

I've been waiting since it was mentioned on a live stream for it to be made into it's original concept that was shown off.

Scythes being made into heavy blades makes me feel they are going to do this to a lot of other weapons down the line....

I mean atm Scythe stances don't have multipliers or effects that other stances have. Increase the length and range of scythes, then add an innate effect to them like life drain on status or crit or even finishers.  Scythe stances just really need a buff.

Pso2 they just threw soul eater and soul banish into sword category when they were scythes and it looked just weird.

[DaMasque]

Scythe stances are indeed wonky, but I liked them. 

Now that DE decided to switch it to Heavy Blade stances, (I sincerely hope this is temperately), it's gonna feel weird. Awkward even. Can't wait to actually use the Anku to mine resources with Rending Crane.

But they should keep the stances, since its already in the game, just leave it in. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by DaMasque

[Bronjun]

Unmatched stance polarities is my only complain. 

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

29 minutes ago, Erebus_Nacht said:

Scythes being made into heavy blades makes me feel they are going to do this to a lot of other weapons down the line....

I could definitely see them doing this to Machetes.  Outside of being "classed" different and different weapon stances there's almost no difference between the Machete and Sword melee weapons in this game mechanically or aesthetically-Machetes look like one-handed swords.  Although if they did do that I'd be sort of upset if they locked me out of Cyclone Kraken, since thats my current favorite one-handed stance.

29 minutes ago, Erebus_Nacht said:

I mean atm Scythe stances don't have multipliers or effects that other stances have. Increase the length and range of scythes, then add an innate effect to them like life drain on status or crit or even finishers.  Scythe stances just really need a buff.

Which is why I wish they would have just buffed scythe stances.  It's going to be fun to use heavy blade stances like Tempo Royale, but I mean whats the point if there's no uniqueness between great swords, heavy axes and scythes?  It'll just wind up being thrown onto the pile of "not Galatine Prime" heavy weapons.

They really should consider keeping and buffing the current scythe stances in addition to the heavy blade ones if they want to go through with this.

Edited April 14, 2018 by (PS4)ZeroSection

[NightmareT12]

11 minutes ago, DaMasque said:

Scythe stances are indeed wonky, but I liked them. 

Now that DE decided to switch it to Heavy Blade stances, (I sincerely hope this is temperately), it's gonna feel weird. Awkward even. Can't wait to actually use the Anku to mine resources with Rending Crane.

But they should keep the stances, since its already in the game, just leave it in. 

Note DE hasn't decided what to do yet. Making them heavy blades is a possibility they contemplate, but Geoff mentioned the chance at keeping the current ones and making a new category.

In my opinion (already made a topic about the matter lel) what they should do is keep and improve the current stances, and make a new "large scythe" category with proper idles and animations, not make it into the Heavy Blade. They can transform the abnormally large Ether Reaper to that as well and give it the glory it deserves.

Reason I don't like the Dark Split Sword idea:

a)

31 minutes ago, Erebus_Nacht said:

The dark Split sword was meant to be a double saber that split in half to make dual swords with a charge attack. It was rushed out for that livestream that had that skin.

b) The Dark Split sword is already a mess of its own in various ways like holstering, I'd rather not see this fate befall to scythes. I like my Reaper Prime on Nekky but I think the issues really are mainly the direction they went for with the animations, which is shared with other weapon types as well.

Mainly what I expect from a large scythe is a proper done one like Zasalamel's or Death's as you mentioned from Darksiders, but not like they showed today.

Edited April 14, 2018 by NightmareT12

[German]

I personally think scythe stances are one of the best stances in the game. The stances are NOT the problem imo. If they want more people to use them then buff the stats so you don't need a riven anymore to make them viable. I use the Hate on a daily basis and the stance is giving me quick, fast attacks in a good area of attack but what really gives me those high numbers is the riven.

Carnage's idea is really great aswell though. Having scythes and heavy scythes use different stances.

Instead of changing something already existing and upsetting many players rather give us more options by creating something new, in that case heavy scythes.

[Erebus_Nacht]

7 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Note DE hasn't decided what to do yet. Making them heavy blades is a possibility they contemplate, but Geoff mentioned the chance at keeping the current ones and making a new category.

In my opinion (already made a topic about the matter lel) what they should do is keep and improve the current stances, and make a new "large scythe" category with proper idles and animations, not make it into the Heavy Blade. They can transform the abnormally large Ether Reaper to that as well and give it the glory it deserves.

Reason I don't like the Dark Split Sword idea:

a)

b) The Dark Split sword is already a mess of its own in various ways like holstering, I'd rather not see this fate befall to scythes. I like my Reaper Prime on Nekky but I think the issues really are mainly the direction they went for with the animations, which is shared with other weapon types as well.

Mainly what I expect from a large scythe is a proper done one like Zasalamel's or Death's as you mentioned from Darksiders, but not like they showed today.

I'm a big fan of

Caustacyst =P

You know you reminded me of an idea I had, they could make a sickle class of weapons and keep the current scythe stances and give the scythes we have a more reaper like movement..

[Carbonitepon8]

why don't they just make the scythes bigger, why even change them over to a "heavy blade"

mostly i want to see how this effects plague keewar's cause that was a scythe DE turned into a machete and we quickly voiced our opinion it should be changed back, also would like to see if Kama stays a machete

 

[Yukinooh]

I dont think removing the stances would do much good, making it possible to use Heavy blades stances as well the Scythe, that's what i want to see they doing.

[Evanescent]

Hey! I have the same build going on, with a set of arcane pulse and equilibrium. In my case I like to use the Hate with a similar riven.

I would be absolutely devastated to see stalking fan go. Love that stance. 

Hopefully we can get to choose what stance we want!

[mosaickle]

How to make scythes viable and acceptable to players: increase size and range by 1.3x

 

 

Done. Now they're fine. This is literally all DE needs to do.

[Lyricallee]

I want a giant deaths blade, not what amounts to a bent sword.  You do not hold them by the end like you do swords at all.  The one they showed in the dev stream is still at least half the size one should be.  They should have unique stances, they should not be held by the end and swung like a heavy blade.  They should be at least as tall as the person holding them.  For reference a real scythe in use  

Like this only turned into a giant bringer of death and mayhem:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmS_a0VCIAEyArR.jpg

Why would a warframe have a scythe that is less badass than what you can find an on a farm?