[PC] Beasts of the Sanctuary: New Weapons Feedback Megathread

[Bengosha]

I do believe we have an issue with the sugatra placement :P

Edited April 21, 2018 by Bengosha

[MoonlitSeer]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

You're saying this part I outlined in magenta...is the barrel? Ingame?

Before you answer, I'm pretty sure that whoever originally designed the visual look of this weapon intended for that top part to be a spotting scope with massive zoom and for that bit underneath to be the actual barrel of the weapon. And that the designer was told "make us a cool looking sniper rifle". I've see real life guns with massive, long scopes like that.

But if that top bit functions as the gun's barrel ingame....SMH.

Then again, this the same studio that can't get a Khopesh right and then turn around and defend their mistake with an "artistic licence" comment, so I'm not at all surprised.

Also - another semi-auto rifle? *yawn*

Well at least it's 3k more XP for my Clan...

As seen in the original concept art, that was always intended to be the Veldt's barrel, though it does look like part of it is also a scope. There aren't actually that many semi-auto rifles in the game, though it's a shame that it's just a slightly worse Latron Prime.

[MirageKnight]

33 minutes ago, MoonlitSeer said:

As seen in the original concept art, that was always intended to be the Veldt's barrel, though it does look like part of it is also a scope.

I stand corrected, thanks. Good find too.

That is a kinda messed up design though - Tenora included...especially with the tiny magazine and lack of a proper means of supporting the weapon, like an under-slung or side mounted grip that doesn't interfere with the rotating barrel assembly.

Yes, I'm admittedly a bit OCD like that.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

9 hours ago, Xakama said:

Haven't tried them out yet, but those Dual Keres stats look insane. Can someone confirm whether that's the best combination of crit stats we have in the game at the moment?

I'd love to have an actually decent dual swords weapon.

U obviously haven't extensively used dark split-sword (dual swords) as those are incredibly op.

[MachineHead]

At the moment, there are no customizable holster positions for Sepfahn-strike Zaw weapons--at least for nikana variants. I don't know whether this is also the case for the other new strikes, but this couldn't have been intended (limited Fashionframe will never be a part of DE's intentions).

Can't look like an uber-space ninja without the back holster set-up.

EDIT: I only had a glance at the Appearance menu before, but I now have it here to prove that my zaw wasn't ungilded.

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by MachineHead
Screenshot proof

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Why does the veldt have sniper damage fall off? If it's a rifle?

[thecuber]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but Hammer and Heavy Blade Zaws seem to have a significantly larger hidden damage multiplier than all other two-handed Zaw types. For example, if I slap a Dokrahm strike onto a very basic Grip/Link combo like Jayap/Jai, I expect the base damage (before the multiplier) to be 64, since Dokrahm has a base damage of 68 and Jai subtracts 4 from that. Jayap has no effect on base damage. The damage after the multiplier for a gilded Zaw with these components is 108, at least when I preview this construction at Hok's Anvil. I can't be bothered to build every possible combination of Zaw to test the stats for myself, so this preview feature is very nice. 

To go from 64 base damage to 108 total damage requires an increase of roughly 69%. In comparison, swapping the Dokrahm strike out for a Balla, which also has 68 base damage, results in a Staff which has 75 total damage after the multiplier. Going from 64 base damage (68 from Balla minus 4 from Jai) to 75 requires an increase of roughly 17%. 

In testing/previewing many different Zaw combinations in preparation for updating my Mod Comparison Tool, I've noticed previously that Staffs and Polearms regularly get a "boost" of somewhere between 17% and 18% to their total damage, that no one-handed Zaw type gets. Now we have Heavy Blades and Hammers, which get somewhere between 69% and 70%. I'm not entirely sure this is intentional on DE's part, and would appreciate confirmation as to whether or not it is. 

If anybody wants to see the aggregated data I was using to reach these conclusions, just let me know. It's not in the nicest format right now, but I could clean it up and add some annotations if anybody cares to view it. 

[DarcnyssWolfe]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Why does the veldt have sniper damage fall off? If it's a rifle?

It doesnt, has standard rifle range, its a slower firing, faster reloading slash-based latron prime with 1 extra shot, worse crit damage and status and 2 zoom levels.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

59 minutes ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

It doesnt, has standard rifle range, its a slower firing, faster reloading slash-based latron prime with 1 extra shot, worse crit damage and status and 2 zoom levels.

Nah rifles, pistols, bows have 100m dmg falloff. Snipers have 400 - 600

[GeoffFromAccounting]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Nah rifles, pistols, bows have 100m dmg falloff. Snipers have 400 - 600

I'm pretty sure standard falloff range is 300m, not 100m, as 300m is the largest distance you can get in any non-PoE map tile

Edited April 21, 2018 by GeoffFromAccounting

[Raphaello]

My thoughts after playing for most of a day.

Veldt: Mastery Fodder. Fire rate feels abysmally slow. Zoom is presumably a novelty since it's not a sniper (and fires slower than most, if not all of, them). Make it shoot faster (or at least feel like it does). Why does it look like a sniper, but not happen to be one? Is this like an extra large ARCA Scisco?

 

Hystrix: Loving it. Should alter the description to explain that it does elemental status effects, since it looks like it should be doing that damage type and seemingly doesn't.

 

Dual Keres: It exists. Nothing good OR bad to say about it. Seemed to kill things nicely while I was ranking it.

 

Zaw Strikes: No comment here, haven't tried them out yet. I will say though, that I'm already expecting the hammer ones (one of my favourite weapon types) to be unpleasant to use... it just has that smell about it (and my brief read of the first page of this topic doesn't exactly naysay that).

 

Zaw Grips: Someone dropped the ball here. The already existing strikes are somewhat acceptable with the vague half descriptions of what they do. These new ones can't even tell you what kind of weapons they make, let alone if they're fast/slow or crit/status. Easily fixed and I hope someone does this.

[kyori]

Zaw Rabvee has no aura matching polarity with its machete stance mods. An oversight or...?

[nonnus1995]

If you build a staff with the sepfahn, it will still come with the sheath at a wrong angle.

 

https://prnt.sc/j80bk8

[Azamagon]

17 hours ago, Maganar said:

-snip-

In regards to the Zaws and the whole Scythe-dilemma (which I deeply agreed with btw), I'll quote myself from another thread in regards to some potential solutions:
(As for potential "backlash-issues," please read 'til the end, I delve into that too):

36 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

So... again, the Scythe is the weapon you get when using the short/onehanded handle (just like on Plague Keewar)...

Why couldn't it be Machete for onehanded and Scythe for 2handed?? These puny hatchet-Scythes just make no sense!

Or even better, let us multistance them (choosing them just like with Dark Split Sword; only depending on the stance used), for example:
(Note: Bolded parts are new/changed stances)

Balla
1h Dagger
2h Staff / Scythe

Cyath
1h Machete / Sword (Maybe?)
2h Polearm / Staff

Dehtat
1h Rapier / Machete
2h Polearm / Staff

Kronsh
1h Machete
2h Polearm / Staff / Hammer (Hammer, as a replacement of Polearm? It just REALLY doesn't fit as a polearm, considering all the stabbing motions)

Mewan
1h Sword / Machete
2h Polearm / Staff

Ooltha
1h Sword / Machete
2h Staff / Scythe (Maybe?)

Plague Keewar
1h Machete
2h Staff / Scythe

Plague Kripath
1h Rapier / Sword
2h Polearm

Dokrahm
1h Machete
2h Scythe / Heavy Blade (it says Hammer currently, but is a Heavy Blade right now, seems to be an error overall)

Sepfahn
1h Nikana / Sword
2h Staff / Polearm

Rabvee
1h Machete / Sword&Shield(?) (with some unique shield, ofc)
2h Hammer

For those that have already invested in their current weapons, they could get full (but optional, in case they like the changes) component-refund (including Forma/Catalyst), at least on the most radically affected weapons (in my suggested examples that would mainly be; Plague Keewar, Dokrahm and possibly Kronsh)

This feature could ofc expand to non-Zaw weapons. This could mean, as simple examples:

Nami Solo -> both Machete and Sword.
All non-Zaw Scythes -> both Scythes and Heavy Blades (as per DE's current idea)

I mean, we already have it with Dark Split-Sword (although that one is more unique because it can toggle between onehanded and twohanded), so I don't see how this couldn't be done.

That could work, no? This pleases everyone, basicly.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Azamagon

[ZomgSquirrel]

@[DE]Danielle There is definitely something funky going on with the new Sepfahn strike when you turn it into a staff. It still tries to pair it up with the scabbard and it sits all out of sorts. I would recommend removing the scabbard as an addition to the strike, IF it is used for a staff combination.

Edited April 21, 2018 by ZomgSquirrel
Something new I found

[-ZeroStar-]

Making a Zaw with Rabvee and Korb, to make a Machete, it's a V Stance Polarity.  There is no V polarity stance for Machetes only the 2 dashes, Zenurik.  

Saw that it was already listed, wanted to make it clearer.  Not sure if it was an oversight or if there was a new stance I wasn't aware of yet.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

12 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Nah rifles, pistols, bows have 100m dmg falloff. Snipers have 400 - 600

If your looking at the wiki, its wrong in calling it a sniper, in-game it has rifle range, not sniper.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

Hystrix is cool, but the magazine size is too low i hope you consider boosting the size a little bit and increase projectile flight speed as well

Edited April 22, 2018 by arm4geddon-117

[Wehr_Wolff]

Hello. I think the Zaw Arcane Exodia Force could need a buff, so the range of the damage explosion scales with range mods and that it is affected by condition overload please. After all it is a status arcane. Please add this.

[Maganar]

17 hours ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

I know thought you were being logical and respectful when you were typing that, but holy cow are you smug and ignorant.

I'm sorry but none of your rant is valid. Every new weapon doesn't have to be stronger or exactly as powerful as everything before it. They are still plenty viable and worth using. So what if the Vehlt isn't as strongk as Tiberon P. No assault rifle is. So what if Sepfahni Nikana has almost equal DPS to Nikana P. Sepfahni has a far higher disposition and can actually benefit from Rivens. So what if the new grips and strikes are slower than previous ones. What do you think the different links are for? I encourage you to scrounge up what little imagination you seem to have and put it to use.

-Feedback on weapons not related to the quoted text-

-Emphasis mine-

Look, if you disagree with me that's fine, but accusing me of being smug and ignorant and then saying "scrounge what little imagination you seem to have" just makes you look hypocritical.  I'm not sure why you even quoted me in the first place when you only lightly touched on anything I spoke about and the lauded the other weapons (on which I have no feedback at this time and therefore have no desire to criticize).  And why bring up something unrelated like Tiberon Prime?  In fact, I am opposed to how strong Tiberon Prime is and believe it is an example of power creep getting out of control (it has every firing type of any assault rifle and outclasses them all in their respective firing modes, effectively taking away the reason to play anything else for any strategic reason and rather merely for a taste of something else).  I said in my own post that I am rarely one to support power creep, but the Sepfahn appears to be an oversight.  I was critiquing the oversight and mismatch in stats, not the overall damage.  Perhaps this was unclear, and if so I apologize for misleading you.

Now, if the reason you quoted me was simply because you wanted to talk me down from being so negative when there are so many good things about this patch and then you used that first part about Zaws as a launching pad to provide your feedback on everything else you wanted to discuss on this thread, then I guess I can see where you're coming from but I just want to be clear that I was in no way critiquing the overall weapon releases of this patch and merely trying to provide a strong message that modular components need to be approached more carefully than they have been the last two times we've seen additions to original starting assortment.  It sounds like you think I'm on some mad rant, but this is the second time I've seen a release of Zaw components where something looked terribly out of place right from the get-go, and I'm concerned about the future of this system.

9 hours ago, Azamagon said:

In regards to the Zaws and the whole Scythe-dilemma (which I deeply agreed with btw), I'll quote myself from another thread in regards to some potential solutions:
(As for potential "backlash-issues," please read 'til the end, I delve into that too):

-suggestions-

That could work, no? This pleases everyone, basicly.

This is another good approach.  Perhaps the idea of a mid-length grip as I was suggesting may add needless additional complication when a simple and more elegant solution in the form of stance-slotting a la Dark-Split Sword could accomplish the same additional player freedom and repaired animations.  I fully support this alternative solution - in fact, I find it better than what I suggested within my own post.  Thanks for drawing my attention to this.

As for giving players back the parts they spent so they can rebuild whatever they want out of them.... -sigh- I wish, I wish, Oh god do I wish, that DE had just done this the first time around.  When I wrote a short complaint on the thread after they pulled the rug out from under people with the impromptu change from Scythe to Machete, I had assumed they would do something like this and didn't give much thought to providing suggestions - only to bringing attention to the unfairness of modifying a stance post-release - and I took it for granted DE would realize that this was the simplest solution.

This next part, Azamagon, you probably know already and don't need me to reiterate based on the stance you've conveyed in your post.  However, I will post it below for those who don't understand why some people asked DE to "bring back the Scythe option!" during Plaguestar and now seem to be contradicting themselves by going "No, stop giving us these awful scythe options!" during the Beasts of Sanctuary patch.  There is a critical miscommunication which occurred (which as I said I think you, Azamagon understand), but which other people may not understand and so I want it here for the reference of those people.

This is why I called the Zaw scythes section "OHGODNONOTTHISAGAIN."  This was a problem once, DE tried to fix it in a way that was unfair to players (by changing items in their inventory already), and then when players (like myself) complained at this unfairness... DE misunderstood that we were complaining that we wanted back our dumb-looking hatchet-scythes.  No, we wanted our stuff back and the security of knowing we weren't going to get post-release changes without compensation in the future.  I've tried to be thorough about detailing solutions ever since because sometimes DE only hears "community is not happy" and doesn't hear "community is not happy because of X reason."

I honestly don't know the solution this late into the problem.  Going back on their decision post-release again and changing the hatchet-scythes into Machetes and suddenly making all these polearms and stances gain scythe functionality (thus requiring players to rebuild all over again, but now after much longer to get attached to the weapons and their unique look, even down to the goofy animations which some people actually enjoy from what I understand) is just going to undermine player trust further even if done with the best of intentions - or so I fear.  I want Zaws Scythes to become the two-handed weapons DE always envisioned them to be, but without creating these uncomfortable situations.  The problem has festered so long now that I don't know what to do.

All I know is that I am 111% certain that if DE does try once again to fix this problematic situation and needs to change weapon class of some Zaw types... then they definitely and absolutely should try to refund the Zaw parts, Catalysts, and Forma players have spent on those items.  The player could even be allowed to keep the item so that if they don't like it, they can donate it to Hok for Cetus standing as compensation for the time spent gaining XP on the weapon they will no longer use.  Just something to ensure that players don't feel left out in the cold the way they were during Plaguestar.

But I don't even know if that's a fix at this point.  I just know this trend has to stop of making Scythes one-handed.  I - and many other people during Plaguestar 1.0 - complained not about the fact they were taking away the painfully glitchy one-handed Scythes but rather that we were completely losing any way to build Plague Keewar into scythes which is all we had wanted.  We wanted a Plague Keewar Scythe and we wanted to know our standing spent had not been in vain.  They took away the Scythe option (because heaven forbid a Zaw strike not have a polearm/stave option! ...until Hammers and Heavy Blade now, at long last) and we were left frustrated.  The problem of these one-handed Zaw Scythes was introduced with Zaw parts that were clearly rushed to accompany the Plaguestar release (leading to oversights as massive as incorrectly-assigned stances), and I'm now quite disturbed that the misinterpreted feedback of many people like myself has led to an ongoing trend of intentionally releasing actually broken content (not from a balance perspective, but a glitch/bug one) into the game.

[Azamagon]

4 minutes ago, Maganar said:

-snip-
because sometimes DE only hears "community is not happy" and doesn't hear "community is not happy because of X reason."
-snip-

Well, (the part I left quoted) I guess that's a partial truth. I think some weirdos actually LIKE the broken-looking mini-Scythes, and thus disliked them becoming Machetes only for aesthetical reasons.

And honestly, DE should just be brave and do, pretty much, what I suggested. If there would be any kind of backlash, it'd be really weird (and I bet it'd fade really quickly), considering the solution caters to EVERYONE, except for the ones that like these... abomination-mini-Scythes, which doesn't matter because those weapons really don't fit in this game anyway. And ok, it doesn't give back time spent forma'ing (free X-day affinity booster to compensate?), but there has been MUCH worse cases in that regard anyway.

[Maganar]

8 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

Well, (the part I left quoted) I guess that's a partial truth. I think some weirdos actually LIKE the broken-looking mini-Scythes, and thus disliked them becoming Machetes only for aesthetical reasons.

And honestly, DE should just be brave and do, pretty much, what I suggested. If there would be any kind of backlash, it'd be really weird (and I bet it'd fade really quickly), considering the solution caters to EVERYONE, except for the ones that like these... abomination-mini-Scythes, which doesn't matter because those weapons really don't fit in this game anyway. And ok, it doesn't give back time spent forma'ing (free X-day affinity booster to compensate?), but there has been MUCH worse cases in that regard anyway.

-Sigh- Isn't that the truth of it?

Yes, I've heard the people who actually like that the animations are broken.  I don't understand it and I think they are in the minority... though perhaps I should have been more clear about stating this is my personal stance and does not reflect the whole community.  However, I've met people who feel similarly when discussing related topics and this came up, so it's definitely at least a reasonable chunk of the community that feels as I do.

And yeah, it's definitely a big plus to the argument to adopt your solution.  Your solution takes everything into account by allowing the player to decide the class by slotting the stance.  It might take DE some time to implement so code in so much player freedom so that it doesn't break, but I'm glad the idea is up here, on a feedback Megathread for DE to see.

[Azamagon]

11 minutes ago, Maganar said:

-snip- but I'm glad the idea is up here, on a feedback Megathread for DE to see.

Sadly, that doesn't mean anything, because even if the suggestions might fix everything, DE are very likely not gonna see what I wrote.
Even if they do see it, they might not even care about it.
And even if they DO care, they probably won't do anything about it. Because the suggested solutions requires quite a lot of effort, I bet.

Such is life *shrugs*

Edited April 21, 2018 by Azamagon

[LordPantaloonsthe3rd]

So Ive used the Hysterix and the Dual Keres a bit and have some feedback. I'll start with the swords since they've underwhelmed me the most out of the two.

The stats seem good, in fact it reminds me of the Krohkur(single), but honestly I dont really see any reason to use them over the Twin Krohkur which I already really like and use a bunch. Sure they're probably better in the long run with the higher attack speed and the super high crit multiplier but their looks (while unique) dont really do anything for me compared to the the Twin Krohkur. Bonus points for having a matching polarity for Carving Mantis though, its the best duals stance imo. If I would change something about them I think it would be their physical size, they seem too small to me. I'm unsure as to how much bigger I would want them to be though as again their looks dont really do anything for me or match any of my FF.

As for the Hysterix I think it might become a favorite, it looks cool sortof like a proto needler from the Halo Universe. Its firing and reload sounds are great, it sounds punchy and the reload ting somehow really drives home that it shoots really really pointy things. As for the element switching its neat but it brings up one of my niggles with the alt fire system in that its somewhat clunky. The mode cant be changed while youre reloading which with its small magazine and fast reload seems like the ideal time to me for switching damage types. So I dont end up changing elements as often as I might.

This isnt an issue thats isolated to the Hysterix but it doesnt often rear its head with other weapons that I use alot like the Argonak which I only change the firemode on based on what build I'm using or the level of content I'm playing. The only thing I outright  dont like about the Hysterix is that the energy color does not effect the color fo the projectiles. I understand why this was done but with it looking so much like a Needler from Halo I really wanted to have the projectiles be pink to really match the colors I chose for the body of the weapon. While I feel it spoils it a bit for me I dont think I want it changed though as I feel that more people would rather it be left as is and I doubt that effort would be put into making some sort of option to have the energy color apply or not.

I'm looking forward to trying out the Veldt, gotta wait for the research to finish so itll be a few days and I'll probably go and build a Zaw with the new parts that were added.

 

*EDIT* Ok so it seems that the niggle I had with the mode switching on the Hysterix is actually not as I described. You can change the damage type while reloading so long as you reloaded with a partial magazine. If you emptied the magazine you will not be able to switch the damage type while reloading, at least thats been my experience so far.

Is this intentional?

Edited April 23, 2018 by LordPantaloonsthe3rd

[danbrixton]

I have noticed something when playing sanctuary onslaught.

If, at any time while playing, someone disconnects or any kind of connection issue occurs, when it is resolved i have lost all focus and rewards I've earned on that run.

It has been really infuriating as I've been trying to farm Khora and Focus. On one particular run i lost over 100K focus because the squad leader decided to disconnect. Other times I've been disconnected from a squad and kicked back to the relay, only to see I've gotten nothing out of it and even my score for the game mode itself is 0.

I've loved playing the new mode so far but this problem has been consistent and really causing me to loose my drive to play it.