Wanna talk about Trinity + Castanas?

[Klavinmour]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

That's a really bad argument as Link builds have been around for years. If self damage was a problem why did it take them so long to address it?

Because until recently it wasn't that much of an issue?
Aviator mod is a huge component here, that and Diamond Skin (I believe the mod is call, reduces radiation damage) until these mods were used together and the way they interact with Link, self damage wasn't an issue.
These mods were stopping Trinity from taking damage, but still allowing Link to transfer the full damage to it's targets.

In a similar front to when Chroma's Vex Armour was fixed, from day one the Devs said that Vex Armour was bugged and they'll eventually fix it, but until the Eidolons they had no need, because there was no content in the game that 6billion damage in one shot caused any problems.
Why is that? Simple really, almost every boss in the game has invulnerability phases to counteract that, Eidolons don't however.

 

One of the very obvious oversight issues with "Nuke Trinity" is that Diamond Skin and Aviator are applying ADDITIVE rather than MULTIPLICATIVE to damage reduction, which they shouldn't be, especially when paired with Link.

[rune_me]

7 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

What is sad is that this is not the beginning nor the end of this vicious cycle. I am just using my experiences over the last three years to show players that DE will just jump to the next Warframe/weapon setup that becomes popular.

That's good news, though. "Break the meta" should be the motto of all game developers. If something, anything, becomes too popular, definitely break it, nerf it, change it, to force players to move on to something else. This game is not hard. It doesn't require any "skills". Or rather skills in this game is how good you are at making builds, mixing mods and gear. Whenever something is nerfed or broken, we are forced to test our skills for once, to come up with something new that can take it's place. It's practically the only time in the game we get to put our "skills" to any kind of good use. So breaking the meta should always be encouraged. 

[Tamop]

В 04.06.2018 в 23:38, trst сказал:

None of that excuses the Warframe who's theme and kit is based around personal/team survivability and energy restoration being able to have one of the highest AOE damage outputs in the game.

Man you're right! Sooo we can expect that DE will give us some better/easier/funnier ways to deal AOE damage right?

Right?

[Buzkyl]

There's always gonna be Flavour of the month player that hop on the OP bandwagon and ride it until it's nerfed, when it is subsequently nerfed they go on proclaimming how the frame is "dead".

Like how Banshee is "dead" now Trin is "dead". These players never cared for the frame, they just wanted to meta rush the grind through ny means, they'll go back to whatever they were using before or find something new to latch onto.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

3 hours ago, rune_me said:

That's good news, though. "Break the meta" should be the motto of all game developers. If something, anything, becomes too popular, definitely break it, nerf it, change it, to force players to move on to something else. This game is not hard. It doesn't require any "skills". Or rather skills in this game is how good you are at making builds, mixing mods and gear. Whenever something is nerfed or broken, we are forced to test our skills for once, to come up with something new that can take it's place. It's practically the only time in the game we get to put our "skills" to any kind of good use. So breaking the meta should always be encouraged. 

exactly that
i mean warframe has been out for 5 years and it always changed things like that and they still get surprised with changes?.
I totally agree the motto of developers should always be "break the meta" while players should simple "learn to adapt".
The excuse of "its about doing it efficiently"  is exactly that, just a lame excuse that players ALWAYS use when "insert random warframe here" and "insert random weapon here" that they used for their cheesy strats get reworked and balanced, or in their eyes nerfed
 

Edited June 6, 2018 by -.SP.-G43riel

[NezuHimeSama]

5 minutes ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

exactly that
i mean warframe has been out for 5 years and it always changed things like that and they still get surprised with changes?.
I totally agree the motto of developers should always be "break the meta" while players should simple "learn to adapt".
The excuse of "its about doing it efficiently"  is exactly that, just a lame excuse that players ALWAYS use when "insert random warframe here" and "insert random weapon here" that they used for their cheesy strats get reworked and balanced, or in their eyes nerfed
 

I think the issue is less that it was changed, anyone with eyes saw that coming a mile a way. The issue is how it was changed. It's not surprising, DE has a history of this, but that doesn't make it less disappointing.

Here's the actual bug that needed fixing, and has needed fixing since... Damage 2.0? Eximus? idfk, long enough that I don't even remember anymore.

Spoiler

 

They could have fixed the bug, but I guess it was easier to just break another frame. They did it with Parkour 2.0, Chroma, Mag, various weapons, and all sorts of other things, and they'll keep doing it as long as players keep accepting nerfs as a solution to exploitable bugs.

[Senketsu_]

Trinity Is a SUPPORT frame she was never meant to be an invinceible DPS. DE has said several times before the hotfix dropped that they were fixing her. SHE WAS BROKEN. Im a Vet and I have no problem with DE fixing a broken frame to fit the role she was meant to fill. 

[Laveillon]

Well, if you are a veteran, you already got used to slapping the old tennos over, and over, and over again. I can feel your pain.

My only fear is, that the melee 3.0 will kill the melee i love, and after that point, the game possibly lost me. Not a big loss, i understand, but daaamn i love the current melee gimmicks.

 

Also, why do you feel the urge to purge the dark theme users with white text background?

[Senketsu_]

Just now, Laveillon said:

Well, if you are a veteran, you already got used to slapping the old tennos over, and over, and over again. I can feel your pain.

My only fear is, that the melee 3.0 will kill the melee i love, and after that point, the game possibly lost me. Not a big loss, i understand, but daaamn i love the current melee gimmicks.

 

Also, why do you feel the urge to purge the dark theme users with white text background?

from what ive seen of the melee 3.0, is that it will get rid of unused mechanics and take what was good about them, and incorporate it into the new system. The new melee system looks so much more fun to use, and easier to control. 

[Laveillon]

1 minute ago, Senketsu_ said:

from what ive seen of the melee 3.0, is that it will get rid of unused mechanics and take what was good about them, and incorporate it into the new system. The new melee system looks so much more fun to use, and easier to control. 

Can you please specify, which unused mechanic do you refer to?

As far as i can tell, i underuse specific weapon types, but not the unused mechanics. I am confident to say, i know almost everything about the current melee.

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

they did it cause trinity is a support frame an shouldn't be be the major dps

the surge in self damage trnities that using a feature that i honestly seen as something that shouldn't work that was as the mod rage an hunter adrenaline don't give you energy when you do self damage. So no point in having an ability that can be exploited to get 90 to 99% of all the kills.

saying you put 1000's of plat into the game but getting butt hurt over something that was long time coming as onslaught brought out the secret of trin some players kept an now that it was being severely over used to the point everyone an there kurbrow are doing it kinda puts are trinities into a bad spot  

[Laveillon]

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

Did you do that? Why would you do that? Its been pretty clear that the Link thing was not working as DE had "intended", and that something would happen to "fix" it.

Well, this 'feature' was present as long as i can remember. This cheese just gotten popular recently. It is highly possible OP already spent that 1000, even before it became abused.

[Genitive]

The only mistake DE made was allowing this "feature" to be a thing for so long. This should have been patched a long time ago.

[Sasuda]

While most of what's here is a rant and I don't think achieves much this:

15 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

removed the mehcanic rather than made it reasonably viable

Is something that does bother me. Yes it was silly before, but having a neat niche trick you could do is cool. I don't care if it was nerfed to be effectively worse than the majority of strategies, that'd be fine. But deleting interesting tricks entirely really does seem disappointing. Just make them little tricks instead of big ones.

[Chewarette]

8 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

And it's pretty clear you didn't invest 1000s of plat and have that all become worthless in the span of a hotfix.  When that happens to you, please come back and see if your opinion is still so condescending.  I wouldn't have been pissed if it was balanced reasonably, but it wasn't, it was straight up hammered to death without any recompense.

If you invested thousands of plats into an obviously-not-working-as-intended build, I think that's only your problem though

As a vet, you should have seen it coming.

[Senketsu_]

3 minutes ago, Laveillon said:

Can you please specify, which unused mechanic do you refer to?

As far as i can tell, i underuse specific weapon types, but not the unused mechanics. I am confident to say, i know almost everything about the current melee.

they are moving the channel feature and murging it with block to have it block 100% of damage all the time in exchange for what I would assume is a small energy consumption per damage blocked. Combos are being streamlined into tiers to make them easier to do and have more of an effect in combat. They are removing the pre melee swing that always happened before a charge attack, which will make using gunblades way more fun. You will have more control over your ground slam attacks. 

Thats just what I can remember off the top of my head.

[Klokwerkaos]

4 minutes ago, Sasuda said:

While most of what's here is a rant and I don't think achieves much this:

Is something that does bother me. Yes it was silly before, but having a neat niche trick you could do is cool. I don't care if it was nerfed to be effectively worse than the majority of strategies, that'd be fine. But deleting interesting tricks entirely really does seem disappointing. Just make them little tricks instead of big ones.

This is my main point. 

This whole thing discouraged players from experimenting and investing, literally, EVER AGAIN.  

And if they do discover something, to keep it as secretive as possible and only ever play it in pre made groups with people who have taken a pact never to talk about it.

It's a bad call from DE.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[Senketsu_]

2 minutes ago, Sasuda said:

While most of what's here is a rant and I don't think achieves much this:

Is something that does bother me. Yes it was silly before, but having a neat niche trick you could do is cool. I don't care if it was nerfed to be effectively worse than the majority of strategies, that'd be fine. But deleting interesting tricks entirely really does seem disappointing. Just make them little tricks instead of big ones.

heres the thing, this broke her role. Whole over extended on a Nova didnt break her role, Nova is still a CC frame, just with one mod she can change how she CC's. Having Trinity being pretty much an unkillable DPS completely broke her role. changing that and just making it less effective still broke her role.

[krc473]

9 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

What this teaches is "Don't invest 1000s of plat in anything" because at any moment, if it is too functional and useful, DE will take it away and render your time and investment useless.  And therein lies why my trust is broken.

I gave up on doing this a long time ago. DE lets stuff sit for far too long before changing it. Yes, there could be financial motivation behind it (I really hope not). Take Link Trinity - it was not a significant issue, but OS arrived and people discovered how good it was. Then people started buying Castana rivens for thousands of plat (money that DE gets). Even then, they waited a while to change it. How hard would it have been for DE to fix it after a week or two? When issues like this pop up, DE really should get them fixed in a week or two. Of course, it could just have been a really hard thing to fix. Regardless of how broken something looks, people seem to take the optimistic view of "working as intended" and spend large sums of platinum.

Edited June 6, 2018 by krc473

[GinKenshin]

3 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I did, but that's not the point I'm saying.

What this teaches is "Don't invest 1000s of plat in anything" because at any moment, if it is too functional and useful, DE will take it away and render your time and investment useless.  And therein lies why my trust is broken.

That’s just a really bad excuse, as a player you should know what you’re using/doing is a clear overlook or intended design. In this case it was the former, a support frame isn’t meant to do dmg, period 

 

  The game is always changing, DE clearly said they’re gonna address this, it wasn’t a sudden change 

 

  It’s not about if it’s ‘too good’, it’s about how this ‘good’ is done, in this case, very little effort for a lot of output. Frames and weapons can be good and OP, it’s the context of how they do that is what counts 

 

  

[Cibyllae]

1 minute ago, GinKenshin said:

very little effort for a lot of output

Isn't accruing the plat, endo, and credits effort?

EDIt: to make this build work? Isn't that its own type of effort?

Edited June 6, 2018 by Cibyllae

[Klokwerkaos]

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

Of course, it could just have been a really hard thing to fix.

All that requires is that an exception be programmed in.  At best a few lines of code, maybe a few lines of code for each self damaging weapon.  This is not something that can be done in an hour I'm sure.

[Klokwerkaos]

2 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

Isn't accruing the plat, endo, and credits effort?

EDIt: to make this build work?

One might say...

And therein lies my problem.  Why invest on that level in any build ever again?

It's a huge slap in the face to have it removed entirely.

It's crap and they deserve lots of rage for it.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[mathias486]

Do you know why peoples were starting to use Trinity as a DPS ?

Because other DPS/Ccleaner frames are getting nerfed to death one after the other(Chroma,Ember,Banshee,Saryn....).People want to use the most powerful build,even if this build relies on a broken mecanism.

Edited June 6, 2018 by mathias486

[Senketsu_]

2 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

First because Ash is garbage and sits in the closet where he belongs, his rework didn't make him viable for ESO, which is why he isn't there.  Second because investment came before this was a wide spread problem that was known to be "getting fixed", third, you're condescending again.  You and I are allowed to have different opinions and I'm allowed to be pissed off and this is precisely where to complain to DE about changes, and frankly, you're not helping, so please feel free to GO AWAY, because your input isn't wanted.  I've considered your arguments and they don't outweigh the ones I have, which are covered extensively elsewhere, and 4th, trinity can't do everything, not at the same time, that build made her squishy and all her other abilities unusable, so don't try and make an argument that doesn't work and pass it as fact.  Thank you very much for leaving the thread.

lol Then you dont use Ash right then. A pure strength and efficiency build recks house in ESO, becasue of his forced bleed procs.

Actually there is no way you could have invested that much into a self damage trinity becasue it was a fairly new discovery. Ive pretty sure around the launch of ESO. and DE knew about it.

As you have stated we can have different opinions, Just because you dont want my input doesn't mean I cant give it, plus as stated, being a vet you should understand that everything is subject to change, so you shouldn't have invested in a clearly broken build on a support frame.

And yes your arguments can be outweighed because your arguments are pretty much based on you making poor decisions and having an emotional response to them. While Mine have given the facts as to why things were done and decisions made.

Funny my trinity builds work pretty damn well. EV for restoring energy. Link to get out of bad spots, and bless for fast and instant healing. Only ability I dont really use is WOL and thats because Bless does the job better.

I get you are upset. but the way you are acting about it is very immature. And its not like trinity is useless, Her EV build is still a must have in ESO, and guess what. It fits within her role as a support frame.