Warframe's first impression is pay-to-win

[JerryMcBoll]

First off, I know this game definitely isn't pay-to-win. It's far, faaar from it. In fact, I think it is the best and fairest free online game there is. However, that wasn't the impression I got when I started and, if it wasn't for me having nothing to play at the time, I would have jumped ship. Basically, I think Warframe need to explain itself better to a new player.

Before anything else, Warframe carries the stigma of being a free-to-play PvE focused MMO. If I'm completely oblivious to Warframe as a whole and hear those words in the descriptor of any game, I will immediately assume that it's pay-to-win and I think that apply to most people. 

I believe the big problem was that I got front-loaded with countless with preminum purchases. The first thing I did when entering the game proper was taking a look at the equipment screen and was immediately greeted with a thousand weapons, all with the plat price tag and  a big purchase button. The same experience repeated when I looked at the Warframes. This actually made me think that the only way to get new gears was to pay plat for them. It was later that I learnt that I could buy the blueprints for them from the Market with credit, and the reason why this took me so long was that the huge prime access thing with all the cosmestics made me think it was a premium-only shop. The next thing I did was trying to mod, and hyper meta fast hand speed trigger ammo drum builds aside, I spent all my endo. The endo was coming in a trickle and, oh look, I can spend plat to buy 1000 endo! At that time, it was a fortune for me. Then, after maxing out the capacity, I noticed that I only had 30 capacity while people mentioned they had 60. I poked around and discovered potatoes and forma...which was also 20 plat apiece. 

Once the ignorance lifted a little and I learnt you can grind for weapons and frames, I ran Jackal for Rhino. He rode my ass a little until I gave up and go public to leech off the adults. I got all the bps, but I was missing control modules. At this point, I was so convinced that Warframe would be shaking me down for lunch money anytime now, so I gave up and bought control modules from the store. I still cry to this day. The next thing I saw was that it took 12 hours to craft each component, and then the frame took 3 days. All the while there was this handy dandy little button that will take the wait away just for a few plats. So I made some weapons to grind for mastery while, but then I hit the inventory cap and a new one cost 20 plat. Three days later, Rhino was done, and he also came with a 20 plat price because I was out and I didn't want to give up my Volt. 

I was set. Warframe was straight up money gouging pay to win bullS#&$. 

Then, while I was drowning in salt, I took a look at all the channels and discovered the trade channel, with people trading prime parts for plat. It blew me away. The very idea that you can farm for premium content and, by extension, currency was completely alien for me. Those are supposed to be locked behind paywalls to buy the dev's next mansion! You can't work for them unless the working involves opening your wallet. But, turn out, Warframe lets you farm for it by relics, and I had so many relics! (actually not a lot, but for me then it was a lot).

So, I grabbed my first relic and dove solo into a fissure. I like to say that I got a bunch of rare drop that I immediately traded for hefty plat, but what actually happened was that the corrupted enemies fisted me so hard my ass doubled as a runway for a few weeks. But I saw a flicker of light, an actual goal I can work toward. Everything started to fall into places, Everything made sense now. 

So, Warframe 100% definitely isn't pay to win. I know that. However, I think it can explain itself a little better to new players, who may assume that it is like most other free or even paid titles out there and will always try to get its fingers into your pocket all the time. What i propose is that you remove the ability to buy weapon from the equip menu and just show the items you actually own. Next, give the players a couple Warframe slots to play with. Basically, I think Warframe need to ease up on new players. They will be overwhelmed, and all these platinum-locked things will jumped out and set off alarms in their heads. Just give them some time to get into the tempo of the game, and I think Warframe will become much more inviting.

Also, I came from Path of Exile, so I am not a stranger to the farm and trade thing, especially the importance of checking online for the market value of items. A complete noob will definitely be in a worse spot since the only support for trading in the game was the crappy trade chat. 

 

[TinFoilMkIV]

Absolutely agree that the first impressions for the market and such are absolutely awful for new players. Blueprints need to be way more up front where they can be easily seen for new players. Also having some kind of newbie recommended section would most certainly not hurt. Show off the fully built credit weapons and such to get people into things while they figure out the crafting.

[KennBone]

no way man,, when i start yes i feel lost bcs i think PL can be farmable ( like credits ) but when u understand how to get via trade or buy with real money ( ofc support DEV is nice ) u get involved so fast and easy. i never find any game nearly fair than WF, and i have play  near all mmorpg,shooter´s etc.. i left all bcs of same if u dont pay u limited alot and u cant  get the " coins to buy in market " from others players also selling/trading items..

[NecromancerX69]

Welcome to the wonderful world of trading.

[ People should play Recettear ]

 

As for your post, yes, DE still needs a lot of work to do in teaching new players that they don't need to pay for anything except cosmetics and slots.

Also explain to new comers how MODS WORK, this drive me crazy when I started.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Just now, TinFoilMkIV said:

Blueprints need to be way more up front where they can be easily seen for new players. 

It used to have it's own category. Used to.

[Rawbeard]

which pay items give off that impression?

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

I can get on board with this. The market does look better than when I started out but more guidance for newer players would be beneficial.

[(XBOX)calvina]

Yeah, I had the same impression too initially.

One thing that would pretty much solved 50% of the issue would be making it where the priority/default choice is to show credit purchases of Blueprints, and having plat purchases as optional.

[Zyneris]

*sigh*

I feel like despite us having a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips it's never used. When I started playing, I saw stuff and wondered "what's this". My FIRST reaction was to go to the internet. Like it's truly not that hard. Trust me, I'm not trying to be a jerk by any means, but if you don't want to ask others what something is, at least look it up. Research and learn something. Almost every game I'm interested in that I've never heard of, I do a quick stop on their website and wikia pages, just to get an idea for what it's about. 

That being said, don't get me wrong, there's a lot that isn't explained in the game ever. And truly, that kind of stinks, but in a way it's good. It forced me to be curious about the world and learn the game. Idk, that's just my thoughts on the matter.

[Zimzala]

Been playing like, a week.

Did not get the impression hearing about the game for the last few years, nor did I enter the game and get the impression that it is P2W.

As a pretty avid gamer and lover of MMO-like games, I might be more informed than some, but Warframe has the opposite of a P2W reputation from my PoV.

Edited July 16, 2018 by MajorPrankster

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)calvina said:

Yeah, I had the same impression too initially.

One thing that would pretty much solved 50% of the issue would be making it where the priority/default choice is to show credit purchases of Blueprints, and having plat purchases as optional.

This right here is all they need to do to spike their new player retention rates. It would work better than a tutorial re-work.

Put all the Credit-only non-build weapons at the top of the list in the arsenal too.

And give players at least one more Warframe slot for free.

 

The pay-to-win vibe is hard to shake when you first get started here. The whole core of the Warframe playcycle of: "buy a blueprint with credits, gather materials, and build stuff in your foundry" isn't advertised (building the Ascaris Negator is not a good enough tutorial... it feels quest-unique, not "feature you're going to be using all the time to get 99% of your gear.")
 

Tutorial stuff that WOULD help: (telling people to just go to the wiki is weak-y.)

Spoiler

Ordis needs to emphasize the importance of Mods being more important than the weapon's rank... the rank gives you "capacity" to place more mods... you get your power from mods. Just ranking up weapons gives you very little increase in power, so it feels like you're treading water and not progressing. That initial quest did not do its job.

Another Maroo story might be a good place to introduce Relics and Fissures, to introduce the "Find Relic, crack relic, make prime or sell for ducats, or trade to others." cycle that opens up the other main play cycle of Warframe.

 

 

[rand0mname]

52 минуты назад, Zyneris сказал:

*sigh*

I feel like despite us having a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips it's never used. When I started playing, I saw stuff and wondered "what's this". My FIRST reaction was to go to the internet. Like it's truly not that hard. Trust me, I'm not trying to be a jerk by any means, but if you don't want to ask others what something is, at least look it up. Research and learn something. Almost every game I'm interested in that I've never heard of, I do a quick stop on their website and wikia pages, just to get an idea for what it's about. 

That being said, don't get me wrong, there's a lot that isn't explained in the game ever. And truly, that kind of stinks, but in a way it's good. It forced me to be curious about the world and learn the game. Idk, that's just my thoughts on the matter.

I usually do look at the Wiki too :). Others are not so inquisitive and prefer to explore things on their own or relay on first impressions and this is how they can get the wrong idea.

The sad thing in this days certain companies try to push this narrative of "games as services", "games are very expensive to make", "players want lootboxes" -_-. First day DLC, lootboxes, hidden progression stoppers, premium cash for real money are a given in too many AAA games with a price tag. No wounder that players do not expect “play free for real” in FtP game.

I do hope that people who attracted to WF via recommendation will know that they can get everything important by other means if they wish.

Edited July 16, 2018 by rand0mname

[-Narauko-]

I don't think the problem lies entirely on DE's doorstep if anything they've done they're best to shift the stigma that comes with the F2P title. There are ways Warframe could do better in illustrating that everything can be farmed, flat out stating it in the walkthrough might help 'Everything  in warframe can be earnt for free' etc

In general its the industry that has tarnished the F2P genre. Hell AAA titles are bigger money sinks than F2P titles.

[Alaeacus]

1 hour ago, JerryMcBoll said:

Warframe's first impression is pay-to-win

It's a little Pay2Win.  Nobody really cares though since it's PvE.  

[(PSN)kanshinto]

Trust me, when I started 3 years ago, this was the exact case.

People walking around with Mag Primes dismayed me so I took to the market, trying to get it. I felt so humiliated because I couldn’t get anything due to my lack of resources, and money. I thought that this game was monetary, but didn’t give up. I started to realise that the more I played, the more I got. This wouldn’t be inspiring to new players, because they think that Warframe is a tough, P2W game.

I feel that Warframe should introduce new methods to induce and attract new players by introducing easier trials, more guides, more starter items, because from the players perspective, it looks like a pay wall that you need to bypass with a wallet. You don’t need a wallet, you need time!

[Zyneris]

11 minutes ago, rand0mname said:

I usually do look at the Wiki too 🙂. Others are not so inquisitive and prefer to explore things on their own or relay on first impressions and this is how they can get the wrong idea.

The sad thing in this days certain companies try to push this narrative of "games as services", "games are very expensive to make", "players want lootboxes" -_-. First day DLC, lootboxes, hidden progression stoppers, premium cash for real money are a given in too many AAA games with a price tag. No wounder that players do not expect “play free for real” in FtP game.

I do hope that people who attracted to WF via recommendation will know that they can get everything important by other means if they wish.

Here's the issue. Players are not willing to do their homework. They'd prefer to explore but then get upset when something isn't how they see it. Then, rather than checking on the truth behind their assumption, they choose ONLY to take it as fact. See the problem? Just because it -feels- like truth, doesn't make it truth. If, as a player, someone is willing to make an assumption they also need to be willing to challenge themselves in that assumption. That is not the job of any dev or company to do someone's homework for them. 

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

Yep bought Oberon, Akfuris, Silva & Agis day 1, I initially 'quit' felt cheated as the weapons and frame were inferior to my starting gear. This was on PC sometime before 9/16/14, still feel stupid, but glad I'm back.

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

Was a founder way back when have since lost access to that account because forgot login information and no longer have access to email i used back then and ex  trashed all my records.  but the only time I ever felt this was pay to win was back when the catalysts and reactors had to be bought.  never once has myself or anyone I've talked into playing felt the market had a pay to win feel to it.  as there clearly a checkmark for only blueprints at bottom of market page and option to buy blueprint for most everything.  if its a research item it tells you so on that tab

[(XBOX)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy]

1 hour ago, Zyneris said:

*sigh*

I feel like despite us having a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips it's never used. When I started playing, I saw stuff and wondered "what's this". My FIRST reaction was to go to the internet. Like it's truly not that hard. Trust me, I'm not trying to be a jerk by any means, but if you don't want to ask others what something is, at least look it up. Research and learn something. Almost every game I'm interested in that I've never heard of, I do a quick stop on their website and wikia pages, just to get an idea for what it's about. 

That being said, don't get me wrong, there's a lot that isn't explained in the game ever. And truly, that kind of stinks, but in a way it's good. It forced me to be curious about the world and learn the game. Idk, that's just my thoughts on the matter.

New players have no investment in the game, and there are thousands of other games they could be playing. If the devs don't properly explain their game, and their systems, those new revenue strea... uh, "players" will leave and go play those other games.

You don't ask your customers to do the leg work for themselves. It's not hard to do, but a new player has no reason to go out of their way and do it.

And it's also not hard to, you know, provide an actual tutorial that explains stuff, and making content like that is, you know, part of what developers get paid to do. Players don't get paid to wiki, and the idea should be to make the game as pleasing and friendly, and straightforward as possible for newbies so they'll spend some mone... uh, so they'll "enjoy the game."

[ManFromMars]

So I think this is actually a great time to have this discussion because of the game-wide UI rework that is currently in progress. It has been a long time since I was a 'new player' by any stretch of the imagination, but whether or not a given new player gets a 'pay to win' vibe from Warframe at first or not, I think we can all agree that there could be a lot more in-game clarity for new players on how to acquire things. So here are some concrete suggestions, I hope others will follow suite:

Market:

1) make the blueprint option a bit more visible, and make it so when you have the blueprints only box checked it only shows you the actual blueprints, not just anything with a blueprint available.

2) add an option to only show things that can be built at your current mastery level, and have it default to on for new players (with a clear indicator that there is more stuff available if they want to look)

 

Arsenal:

3) short tooltip on each weapon you do not own stating where it can be acquired in-game, at least for market and clan-tech items, to avoid spoilers drops from bosses or quests can work like the codex and display ??? until you have the appropriate scans or whatnot, but it still indicates there is some way out there.

 

Foundry:

4) tool-tips on resources listing drop locations?

[Harazard]

Look on the bright side you can actually earn Platinum via trading prime parts and other goodies

 

Because years ago you could only buy slots,potatoes only with plat and you could not get platinum via other means.But that was years ago and not today

And i really agree that the store screen implies that the game is pretty much pay to win in this case but DE will add a tutorial about ship stuff be it store codex etc.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Harazard

[Alaeacus]

13 minutes ago, ManFromMars said:

So I think this is actually a great time to have this discussion because of the game-wide UI rework that is currently in progress. It has been a long time since I was a 'new player' by any stretch of the imagination, but whether or not a given new player gets a 'pay to win' vibe from Warframe at first or not,

I started 65 Days ago and am MR 16 at the moment.  Thus I was recently, and arguably still am, a new player.  

I knew from the start Warframe was a Free2Play game.  I expected from the start this game would find ways to get real-world money from its players, likely through cosmetic or convenience items.  I learn that I could buy weapons from players with Platinum (aka Real Money) so it was pretty obvious early on that this game is a bit Pay2Win.  That being said, I also learned quickly that PvP has almost NO place in this game, and how successful your neighbor is at the game has no relevance on your own progression.  Another person having a fully Forma'd Tigris Prime they bought with real money, does not hinder your personal game experience in any way.  The only thing it does is make insecure people jealous because they don't have what others have.  

Then again, I'm a 35 year old man who has full control of himself and takes 100% responsibility for his actions.  I buy Platinum because I want to, not because I was tricked by some "deceptive predatory corporation".  Trying to blame my personal purchasing choices on others is a direct admission that I am not in control of myself.  It's also weak-minded or weak-willed.  I am guilty of neither.  

Children shouldn't have free reign with mommy and daddy's credit card and adults prone to high levels of life-crippling addiction probably should not be playing these types of games.  I'm not really a big supporter for a Nanny State so I say every man/woman for themselves.  Not everyone is supposed to succeed in this world.  

The game can be a bit more descriptive in its systems but I learned VERY early to rely on the Wiki and internet for all information.  

Edited July 16, 2018 by AlMcFly

[Rayden_Tenno]

I agree. This game is the less p2w f2p game that exists, or at least among the lesser ones that is. But recently a friend of mine started playing and indeed, seeing all frames for plats, seeing the market full of plats, not knowing how to get plat besides of paying and not knowing that everything on the market can also be achieved for free made him think its p2w.

He wanted Ash (he got ash prime from tennocon but before this) and he thought the only way to get it its buying him with plats. There is no indication ingame that tells you other ways to achieve the stuff from the market. This may be rather confusing for new players. My friend had me to tell him that every frame, weapon, mod, arcane or even customization if you're good with trading, are for free, but I had to tell him, there's no ingame system that does that.

I could imagine what would a new player that starts alone feel. "Everything behind a plats wall", it's very very easy to think that this game is p2w.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

It's easily p2w if you don't want to put effort into grinding for good rivens and high-cost (endo) mods. But other then that, you can spend time grinding said mentioned items, albeit with luck involved.

[minininja77]

2 hours ago, Zyneris said:

*sigh*

I feel like despite us having a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips it's never used. When I started playing, I saw stuff and wondered "what's this". My FIRST reaction was to go to the internet. Like it's truly not that hard. Trust me, I'm not trying to be a jerk by any means, but if you don't want to ask others what something is, at least look it up. Research and learn something. Almost every game I'm interested in that I've never heard of, I do a quick stop on their website and wikia pages, just to get an idea for what it's about. 

That being said, don't get me wrong, there's a lot that isn't explained in the game ever. And truly, that kind of stinks, but in a way it's good. It forced me to be curious about the world and learn the game. Idk, that's just my thoughts on the matter.

Wiki's and other online guides are good and all, but if players are always forced to leave a game and turn to the internet for the information they need to play the game the developers of the game are failing the players