The attitude of Devs toward Reb Data was a bit sad

[Cloud]

I just saw the devstream and Reb was making very good points which every developer should consider: What is used , why and by who .

The data she collected is really precious and should guide next implements. The only parameter I saw not considered is time (which is really valuable), since as for example in the sheet Harrow and Nyx were at the same level of usage, but we must consider Harrow is a fresh frame while Nyx is old content in a time when the choice was much smaller.

We should also consider the changes recorded after reworks took place. For example since the last rework, limbo usage escalated.

But what concerned me was the childish attitude of the rest of the Devs, their constant attempt to sabotate her explanations and mark them as boring was not professional, expecially since chat was interested. Now I kinda understand they want the stream to be all fun and cool things to entertain people but I highly hope they bring up those points when not in the camera, not to say that those "jokes" Sheldon made about ignoring ignored content concern me a bit... because sure you can say that those were simply joke but actually it was always the policy of the game....things are kept as they are till a major change hits for commercial purposes or ALL the community raises its voice .

Now, this is not an attempt to bash Devs, they are great people and made a fantastic game with even more fantastic free updates. I only would like to say that Reb made a good job there worth your time and to be examined. There is a reason why certain frames are ignored, there is something which links all of them or certain categories, understanding that is the key on creating successfull new frames and reworking olds.

What do you think?

[Aldrr]

I think them goofing around adds to the fun factor and they still showed plenty of interesting stuff aside from the spreadsheets.

Also I hear the warframe partners will be given access to those as well, so I'm sure those statistics will be thoroughly dissected in the future.

And I'm certain that Rebb is vocal about stuff she can gleam from those spreadsheets herself. For example how it was pointed out how low Nyx (Prime)'s usage statistics were-- sounds like Nyx is up for a rework in the future thanks to these very stats.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Aldrr

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

Yeah, their reaction was unfunny and not professional. Sheldon's "joke" was concerning, even if it was a joke, it still has some basis in truth. There are warframes that haven't been touched since they've been released and are extremely lackluster, like Nezha for example. 

[(PSN)RockstarJungle]

Why should you care how they allegedly treat her bad? That dev probably doesn't even know you in particular exist. 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Cloud:

What do you think?

The same.

Those numbers reveal some crass discrepancies which would be somewhat alarming to me if i put some actual passion and effort into designing those frames but there ya go.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[Gabbynaru]

I assume it's a matter of perspective. I guess devs see charts all the time, and to them they are boring and passe, and I think they see the Devstream as a way to get away from work and just relax for a bit, so, Reb bringing basically work into their relaxation time was met with negativity. I don't really agree with it, cause, to us, that backstage stuff was something really neat to see, and was basically ruined by the behavior of the devs, but at the same time, I will cut them some slack, considering how hard they work and how tired they constantly look these days. I just hope @[DE]Rebecca will hear our pleas and post those sheets for offline viewing from now on, as a nice middle ground between us and the devs.

[motorfirebox]

I was a bit annoyed because I wanted to hear Reb's points, but I think they were mostly just messing around. It's devstream, not srsstream!

[Sibernetika]

I had to tone down what I was originally going to say so I don't earn a warning point for offending someone... But you guys do realise that it was an inside joke right.. I'm pretty sure they look at spreadsheets and data sheets everyday to try and gauge what the playerbase is up to, so that they can better understand what to add or change to warframe.. You guys should really stop being offended on someone elses behalf

[(XBOX)Skode]

Don't think they meant any harm and they enjoy reading her after all. Was a shame we didn't get much detail on it though because of the jibes, was legit interested in the data.

[Cloud]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)RockstarJungle said:

Why should you care how they allegedly treat her bad? That dev probably doesn't even know you in particular exist. 

It's not just about Reb, it's about what her work stand for. She made valid points worth to be considerated and examinated.

10 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

I assume it's a matter of perspective. I guess devs see charts all the time, and to them they are boring and passe, and I think they see the Devstream as a way to get away from work and just relax for a bit, so, Reb bringing basically work into their relaxation time was met with negativity. I don't really agree with it, cause, to us, that backstage stuff was something really neat to see, and was basically ruined by the behavior of the devs, but at the same time, I will cut them some slack, considering how hard they work and how tired they constantly look these days. I just hope @[DE]Rebecca will hear our pleas and post those sheets for offline viewing from now on, as a nice middle ground between us and the devs.

I can understand that, but if Reb knew they always see those kind of sheets, why making them in the first place? Also from the reactions of the team, they were kinda surprised by some results, so I guess they are not so accostumed to see those data.

If you instead consider the "relaxing time" then I would have just said to her "Reb is no time to discuss such arguments, let's go on".

To me they just seemed genuinely uninterested. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Cloud

[Omega-Shadowblade]

1 minute ago, Cloud said:

 

To me they just seemed genuinely uninterested. 

To me they seemed more tired than uninterested. Its a slog working through features, especially ones you made before and are seeing the results of. Its definitely a matter of perspective. Its one thing to see the results from the eyes of a player, and go that's interesting, and another to look from the eyes of the makers and see what's worked and what has not.

[Buzkyl]

They're joking with a fellow co-worker, not disrespecting her. Stop taking things so seriously. The devstreams have rarely been the place to display professionalism. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Buzkyl

[Gabbynaru]

1 minute ago, Cloud said:

I can understand that, but if Reb knew they always see those kind of sheets, why making them in the first place? Also from the reactions of the team, they were kinda surprised from some results, so I guess they are not so accostumed to see those kinda of data.

If you instead consider the "relaxing time" then I would have just said to her "Reb is no time to discuss such arguments, let's go on".

To me they just seemed genuinely uninterested. 

I don't imagine devs see those kinds of sheets all the time, but I still imagine they have to sit through meetings, and they see sheets and charts there, whether they want to or not, so, if that is the case, I can easily see why they would not be interested to see spread sheets during their relaxation time.

I also imagine Reb's line of thinking was to make those sheets and charts for us fans first and foremost, and as a way to illustrate to and maybe persuade Scott into actually looking at Nyx. We've seen in the past Reb has a sly side to her where she puts devs on the spot during the devstream in order to get something she wants done. Maybe that was her line of thinking this time too, though it seemed to have backfired for now.

[Cloud]

6 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

To me they seemed more tired than uninterested. Its a slog working through features, especially ones you made before and are seeing the results of. Its definitely a matter of perspective. Its one thing to see the results from the eyes of a player, and go that's interesting, and another to look from the eyes of the makers and see what's worked and what has not.

I understand what you're saying, watching your own failures is always painfull, but you need to do it in order to understand what you're doing wrong, I guess.

2 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

I also imagine Reb's line of thinking was to make those sheets and charts for us fans first and foremost, and as a way to illustrate to and maybe persuade Scott into actually looking at Nyx. We've seen in the past Reb has a sly side to her where she puts devs on the spot during the devstream in order to get something she wants done. Maybe that was her line of thinking this time too, though it seemed to have backfired for now.

You made a valid point. Also, if you notice, every time Reb mention Nyx during the stream , unusually Scott is on a defensive attitude.

[Nitro747]

I cringed so hard when Rebb was trying to give us new information regarding Nyx and reworks while the rest of the team was CONSTANTLY (man)terrupting her every time she tried to convey new information to us. In the end she just had time to say "so, yeah, we are reworking Nyx". It was literally some long 10 minutes of interruption and trying to run away from the problem.

The "if no one plays it, why bother" was infuriating as well. It's the kind of thing that a dev who only cares about grofit would say.

[wargthewarg]

For me as a viewer I felt super uncomfortable. I was (and am) genuinely interested in the stats but felt like Reb got cut off and interrupted trying to talk about it. To me it felt disrespectful although I want to believe it wasn't intentional on their behalf.

[apo86]

33 minutes ago, Aldrr said:

I think them goofing around adds to the fun factor

I think that was a step beyond "goofing around". They actively sabotaged that segment of the stream.

And I don't even mean that in an "Oh poor Rebecca" kind of way. She's a grown woman and I'm sure she can stand up for herself. But I as a viewer wanted to see what she had to show and hear what she had to say.

[-QUILL_PETER-]

58 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

The "if no one plays it, why bother" was infuriating as well. It's the kind of thing that a dev who only cares about grofit would say.

It was a joke. They knew it was joke. Reb knew it was a joke. Every intelligent person watching the strim knew it was a joke. Please stop white knighting, would you kindly?

[Fishyflakes]

Ehh yeh it did make me uncomfortable watching it live.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

47 minutes ago, apo86 said:

I think that was a step beyond "goofing around". They actively sabotaged that segment of the stream.

And I don't even mean that in an "Oh poor Rebecca" kind of way. She's a grown woman and I'm sure she can stand up for herself. But I as a viewer wanted to see what she had to show and hear what she had to say.

I agree.  It is a Developer/Development Stream, not a Lunch Break, so yeah it's whole purpose is to discuss the inner workings and developments behind Warframe, including but not limited to the player data and how that impacts decisions of implemented features going forward.

I was very interested in actual data, as much as I also love seeing the features in dev build.

For the "down time" and "relaxing", that's why we have the Let's Play streams 3 times a week (1 per platform).   The DevStream is there for discussion.  

And I say this as a business owner and someone who has managed many dev teams, joking around and keeping the atmosphere light is perfectly fine, but completely overtalking and shutting down a presentation is just disruptive.

I love the devs, I love the game, but that in particular really did irk me during the stream.


And as someone who has been overtalked and shut out of presentations myself, I can say it doesn't feel very nice, either, and whether or not Reb took it as a joke, it was cringey to see them do that to her.

 

[Hypernaut1]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

 

I agree.  It is a Developer/Development Stream, not a Lunch Break, so yeah it's whole purpose is to discuss the inner workings and developments behind Warframe, including but not limited to the player data and how that impacts decisions of implemented features going forward.

I was very interested in actual data, as much as I also love seeing the features in dev build.

For the "down time" and "relaxing", that's why we have the Let's Play streams 3 times a week (1 per platform).   The DevStream is there for discussion.  

And I say this as a business owner and someone who has managed many dev teams, joking around and keeping the atmosphere light is perfectly fine, but completely overtalking and shutting down a presentation is just disruptive.

I love the devs, I love the game, but that in particular really did irk me during the stream.


And as someone who has been overtalked and shut out of presentations myself, I can say it doesn't feel very nice, either, and whether or not Reb took it as a joke, it was cringey to see them do that to her.

 

its whole purpose is whatever they want it to be.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

its whole purpose is whatever they want it to be.

Yes, which, when they founded the program, was to "discuss the inner workings and developments behind Warframe, including but not limited to the player data and how that impacts decisions of implemented features going forward.

[rune_me]

1 hour ago, Cloud said:

It's not just about Reb, it's about what her work stand for. She made valid points worth to be considerated and examinated.

Isn't she the community manager? If so, then it really is not her job to analyze game data collected from the players and draw conclusions from these (though it would be her job to communicate those conclusions onwards to the community). The game designer is the one who should look and care about the spreadsheets.

[Oreades]

What do I think? 

I think you're reading too much into it. 

[Nitro747]

33 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

It was a joke. They knew it was joke. Reb knew it was a joke. Every intelligent person watching the strim knew it was a joke. Please stop white knighting, would you kindly?

Read the post. Joke or not, its still concerning, and he didn't make it that clear, specially considering their past of leaving warframes to rot for years. What the heck does "white knighting" have to do with any of this?