[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[Elyndr]

There have been a lot of good ideas for Revenant. I think he does need some changes. His theme is great and his abilities are unique. However, his 1st leaves a lot to be desired. The minions just plain up die all the time without accomplishing anything. I have two ideas.

1st: Make the minions have either damage resist or invincibility, either all of them or just the 1st one. Then make them explode on death, dealing the amount of damage that was done to them in an explosion and leaving behind the damage field. 

2nd: Raise the cap on how many enemies can be afflicted, and make it spread upon death. That way you could crowd control a group of enemies more effectively.

His other 3 abilities are fine in my opinion. They could have some quality of life tweaks to them, but if they were not changed at all, I still think of them as viable abilities.   

[Arukai]

Since most people seem to see the biggest problem of Revenant in his first ability (myself included), I wanted to share an idea for his Enthrall. Of course his 2 and 3 also need some love, but I don't think I can provide anything that hasn't been said already. Here we go:

When I think of Sentients or Eidolons in particular, strong resistances and lasers are not the only things that come to mind - I also think of those pesky little Vomvalysts. So I thought to myself "He already has a minion-based ability - but Vomvalysts aren't involved at all in his kit".

How about instead of leaving an energy pillar on death, thralls will turn into Vomvalysts once they die. These Vomvalysts would be unlimited, but have either a short duration or are rather easy to kill. They will fly around and attack any enemies like Vomvalysts do. Upon death/expiration, they take their energy form, target a nearby enemy in line of sight (prioritizing enemy groups if possible), charge into them and explode. I'm not giving any numbers because I don't really know what would be balanced here.

There could be some nice synergy with his other abilities - Vomvalysts could have a small chance to drop Mesmer Shards. Revenant can pick them up in order to restore one charge of Mesmer Skin (Unless Mesmer Skin is at its cap). Reave could consume Vomvalysts it passes through and provide a damage buff to Revenant based on the number of Vomvalysts consumed. And when he activates his 4, Vomvalysts will gather close to him. Upon death/expiration, they will not charge into enemies, but into Revenant instead, adding to Danse Macabres absorbed damage.

Those are just my two cents - I thought that could be a cool idea.

[Flandre_Scarlet_]

I am very disappointed with the Revenant.

Passive

Range is too small, doesn't seem to hit all enemies in an AoE. Anti-synergy with his base stats. If you want his passive to proc more often, you have to lower the amount of base shields he has.

Enthrall

Godawful ability. First of all, enemy AI is only useful for serving as a meatshield, as they have the accuracy of a Storm Trooper and deal very little damage when confronted with armor or shields. Having enthrall limited to 4 enemies is useless, but having a timer attached to the ability ontop of the limit makes the ability even more useless. Remove the mind control limit, go back to your original concept and double the duration to make it somewhat viable. Hell, you could even tinker around with the concept of Saryn's one by selecting one enemy which will serve as a Progenitor and spread enthrall to other enemies (at the cost of only being able to cast Enthrall on one target at a time). The on-death synergy is also bad. The energy pillars deal too little damage and only stay for a short amount of time. Remove this synergy and give him a new one.

Mesmer Skin

Good ability in theory, bad in practice. Needs a grace period or all charges will be gone within a second. Provides too little survivability, cast animation too long.

Reave

The worst ability in his kit. Energy cost way too high, only works on enthralled enemies (which are limited to 4). Now tell me, how often are you going to reap the benefits of using Reave on thralls when they're limited to 4 and can be instantly evaporated by team mates? It's forced synergy, which is never good. You shouldn't ever implement a ability that does absolutely nothing on its own if it's not casted before or after a different ability. 25 energy for Enthrall + 75 energy for Reave is not only way too high, it's also too ineffective to ever consider.

Danse Macabre

His only good ability. Deals decent damage and scales pretty well. However, Danse Macabre is pure visual clutter, has very little utility and slows your movement speed to a crawl while offering little to the team. The synergy with his Enthrall is, again, bad. Shields don't matter in Warframe, so please stop with the Overshield trend. It works on Harrow because his 1 only costs 25 energy, CC's the enemy and can be casted very frequently and synergizes well with his 2, but this doesn't make sense on Revenant. The spinning animation also seems very much out of place and has very little to do with Eidolons. If you truly wanted to make him Eidolon themed, then please give him proper abilities, His 4 mostly resembles a Conculyst's laser spin and not an Eidolon's energy rain.

[Ramflare]

Danse macabre is next to useless in the plains due to the different heights of terrain - maybe introduce a soft lock on targeting mechanism so those beams don't go to waste

[Ramflare]

1 hour ago, _The_Snatcher_ said:

Reave

The worst ability in his kit. Energy cost way too high, only works on enthralled enemies (which are limited to 4). Now tell me, how often are you going to reap the benefits of using Reave on thralls when they're limited to 4 and can be instantly evaporated by team mates? It's forced synergy, which is never good. You shouldn't ever implement a ability that does absolutely nothing on its own if it's not casted before or after a different ability. 25 energy for Enthrall + 75 energy for Reave is not only way too high, it's also too ineffective to ever consider.

 

reave definitely does do health and energy regen on non-enthralled targets, just not as much, I agree on the energy cost though - still it's actually quite useful

[Circle_of_Psi]

Hello Tenno!

So!, I took some time to test the different combination of abilities and survivabilities to see what I  could do with the Revenant. I'd like to share some feedback on that and make some tweaking suggestions.

Currently: 

<Passive> His passive overall is not useful and adds nothing to gameplay, the range is far too short and the CC is weak at best.

1.Enthral: This power is alright at its base, but the limited cap and not being affected by mods, including ally fire is hurting this power quite a bit, considering the combos.
2.Mesmer Skin: This power is great at its base, but has slow casting time and freezes you in place, them few seconds of casting can get you killed and the limited amount of "hits" is hurting it quite a bit.
3.Reave: Overall a horrible power, you travel way too far (even stopping it at free will), leeches barely anything (even with thralls) and the issue with 1, heavily effects his 3. 
4.Danse Macabre: Nothing to say, this power is Wonderful!.

So, now that quick and short basic issues, I'll be addressing on how to improve him.

<Spectral Rise>: When downed, Revenant goes into an energy state and calls out to his 4 Vomvalysts to heal him (Acts like the Sarcophagus), each Vomvalysts adds  5% to his healing (Reach 20% and you are fully healed).
Note: If you do not have the amount of Vomvalysts or one dies trying to heal you, they will also add % of secs to your bleed ou to allow your allys a longer time to come and get you. 

1. Enthrall Tweaks: 
1. Allow the cap to be affected by mods: Keep the base cap at 5 and allow mods to boost it. 
2. Remove Ally-Fire, Your Allys can kill them far too quickly, making this power useless and his combo effectiveness meaningless. Same goes for yourself. (Counter: See new power)
3. Remove the until this Ability runs out and allow them to be under control permanently (Until killed by normal means).

2. Mesmer Skin Tweaks:
1. Boost the basic 6 cap to 10.
2. Allow a Gatling: 5-10s of invulnerable when casting, allowing you to make sure you keep your stacks, without them getting cut away mid-casting.
3. Allow re-casting to refresh the caps.

3. Synovia Song:  An brand-new power to replace Reave. Synovia Song allows Revenant to drain Health & Shields from his Thralls, the more you drain, the more you gain. (Affected by mods & amount of Thralls).
Holding down the power will summon 4 Vomvalysts around Revenant (Like Watchful Swarm), each can do their normal attacks, but upon death, they will race to Revenant healing him or his allys.

Specs: His issue with being a highly Shields hurts him a lot, without Shield-Gateing

Edited August 27, 2018 by Circle_of_Psi

[Madway7]

44 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

 

2. Remove Ally-Fire, Your Allys can kill them far too quickly, making this power useless and his combo effectiveness meaningless. Same goes for yourself. (Counter: See new power)

This would create too many issues with trolling (defense missions taking longer, unable to get power cell, etc)

At best I can maybe agree to them getting a small amount of DR to ally fire and your dmg, but full invul seems bad.

I really like the rest of your suggestions though.

[Crackashazam]

Here's my big, chunky perspective and opinion post on the Revenant warframe.

I'll preface this by saying that my playstyle, and where I play (frequently NOT on the plains) may not be ideal to the intended or preferred manner of playing Revenant, and most of what I have to say is similar to what others have already suggested.

Passive: Like a lot of warframe passives, it's there. It's not great, and I don't see it pop much (if at all). But it's there. As others have said, extending its effective range when it does activate, or even changing the threshold at which it activates (25% ~ 50% shield loss instead of 100%?) might give it more viability, particularly in higher level content.

Enthrall: I'm gonna be one of the few odd men out here. I don't mind that I've only got four thralls -- in fact I even prefer the limited number. It's useful for neutralizing pesky enemies that would otherwise be too annoying to kill or avoid (heck, it'll even work on enemies like the juggernaut) and the thralls have thus far done a reasonable job of attracting enemy fire. I don't expect the damage they deal to be reliable. The visuals are apparent enough that in most cases I can tell which enemies I have enthralled. The energy pillars left behind upon thrall death work well enough for softening weaker enemies, especially in bottlenecks or along predictable paths. Where I could see improvements are in the ability's application. Manual casts of Enthrall should take priority over the natural "spreading" affliction of enemies already affected by it, with the caveat that more recent casts release a previously affected enemy from the ability's control. This might seem tedious, but I think it would allow for more control of what enemies are effectively locked away from harming you, and more, providing potential cover. I also think afflicted enemies should remain within a consistent radius of Revenant (making this something of a poor-man's Shadows of the Dead), and move to him when either he or they have have moved or crossed that boundary Actually, this might just be laughably dumb AI. Sometimes they'll come to me, sometimes they just stand there like dunderheads, shooting at nothing.

Edit: Seems to work on just about everything, which might be unintentional. Used it on Vor when I ran the third mission of the Sortie and he just sorta stood there. Still summoned enemies at the periodic thresholds, but otherwise neutered and under my control (insert Vor meme).

Mesmer Skin: It's a solid ability. It prevents damage to you with the added bonus of stunning attacking enemies and reflecting damage and statuses back at them. The casting speed is a bit lengthy, but not unmanageable. As others have said, the charges can be whittled down quite quickly, making it ineffective in high enemy count scenarios. Where I could see improvement is instead of the ability being charge-based is having it be a short-time duration (perhaps baseline of 8 ~ 10 seconds, affected by duration?), or just increasing the number of charges (both baseline and those granted through increased power strength). Beyond it's functionality, it's visuals are somewhat distracting, specifically speaking of the "smoke" that envelops you for the duration of the ability. I think this visual should either be removed, altered to be more condensed or transparent, or at least be altered to be more aesthetically appealing (if I'm gonna have anything floating around me, I'd like it to look good!).

Reave: Again, another solid ability. It basically turns you into a vomvalyst that damages enemies you pass through while restoring your own health and shields (even more if you pass through your thralls). Casting it by itself feels somewhat clunky and awkward, but used in conjunction with Danse Macabre it feels much more responsive and efficient, great for moving in and out of combat as needed at the cost of additional energy. Where I could see improvement is in its movement. Frequently it seems more like the ability moves in relation to my W/A/S/D movement than the facing of my camera; should this be the case, altering it to move in the direction of your camera might resolve some of the awkwardness. Then there are the ability's visuals. Two- or three-dimensional effects aside, I can't stand the massive cloud of smoke that obscures everything in front of me, the cause of my frequently hitting walls or falling off ledges (which might actually be more of a personal problem...). It's ugly to boot and I feel like I'm part of some bad Vape Nation meme when I use it. I'd love to see something more similar to the transparent energy trails vomvalysts emit when they charge (again, sans billowing of smoke, though in my opinion that should be removed from the vomvalysts too!). That's it, basically. Make it pretty, please. 🙏

Danse Macabre: It's fun. It's flashy. I can dance if I want to, and leave my friends behind. Functionally, it plays like a short-range Mesa ultimate that runs the risk of inducing epileptic seizures. I love that it applies different status effects for different enemy types, opening them up for death more quickly not just to Danse Macabre itself, but also the attacks of your allies (if they can do more immediate damage). It works well enough in conjunction with Revenant's other abilities (especially Reave in my opinion) and you're allowed a modest amount of mobility for its duration. Where I could see improvement is in how vertical you are in relation to the ground. I occasionally get stuck behind the smallest of ledges or other artifacts, all but halting my deadly disco-show and leaving me exposed to enemies beyond my reach in that moment. Giving the players a slight vertical boost either in its natural state or while holding left-click for increased damage and range might resolve this well enough.

In short, I think he's fun and generally good at what he does: deleting enemies with a modest amount of crowd-control thrown in. Like anything there's still plenty of room for improvement.

(NOTE: I haven't mentioned any bugs or glitches simply because I haven't encountered -- or noticed many, if any of the bugs others have described here. This says one of a few things: either I haven't played him enough, haven't been in any situation where they would be more apparent, or I've just been lucky. Or all three. That said, I'm not discounting that they are there and problematic for others.)

Edited August 27, 2018 by Crackashazam

[TheOlright]

42 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Can this be made a one handed ability? 

Its already one-handed, actually, every other is not

44 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

easy. Make thralls accumulate damage while enthralled like the poor shmuck nidus umbillicals and all that damage is dealt all at once when the ability ends. BOOM. Thralls are now your hype machine to bring everybody to the rave show while acting as bouncers to keep anyone from bothering the entertainment.

Hellll, man, this is what I call the one cool idea

Exploding thralls sounds super amazing

[Bouldershoulder]

His thralls are Nyx' story anew. Teammates intentionally kill them, I saw it with my own eyes.

[CephalonVattGhern]

hey, my clanmates and I ran a 40 wave defense fissure but we instafail when revenant made the cryopod invulnerable for 2 minutes then it ran out and killed our kavats. Might want to look into this DE?

Edited August 27, 2018 by Vatgerhn

[tripletriple]

Just want to say to everyone who doubted me about revanant. Everything I posted is correct as always. God it feels good.

His 1 needs the limit to be 15 and he will be fine.

Edited August 27, 2018 by tripletriple

[Kagemitsukenshi]

Alright so after finally building rev heres my 0.0002 cents

Ok so pretty much everyone is just saying remove the cap on his 1 but what if they did something with more synergy like those who are hit with mesmer skins stun dont count toward the cap that way they have somemore useful synergy

for his 3 have it refresh mesmer skin stacks based on how many people you pass through (this also synergizes his skills more giving him a 2 4 3 combo to protect your self while in your 4)

thats it with this i feel like everyone would be happy let me know what you guys think though

Edited August 27, 2018 by Kagemitsukenshi
typos

[Roadle32111]

He has potential but just a few minor nitpicks.

1- The cap of 4 is too low. Pls, 7 at least. Could the infection spread on death? I like that teammates can kill them as no one likes it when defence missions are held up, but they die before coming in contact with another enemy. The energy pillers have no use as far as I can tell.

2- It would be nice if each charge had a small invulnerability timer, at least against status procs. It would make sense with the sentient theme. Only stunning one enemy per charge is also a little weak.

3- It's too expensive for what it does, also the moving fog wall visuals aren't the best (still looks better than strangledome)

4- It's fine but an option to tilt the beams up or down would be appreciated. If the 2 gets a buffer time, it should be more than enough to stay alive.

Passive- most passives are useless but an increased range would be nice.,

Edited August 27, 2018 by Roadle32111

[tripletriple]

4 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

For a definition of 'fine'

My problem is i don't want 'fine.' i want 'give me a reason to pick him up' and right now while he's fun... I just don't see it.

You won't get that with DE believe me. Been here for 5 years. They are so scared of making something even remotely op that they would rather everything is mediocre/average.

[Leqesai]

Saw this in another thread.

 

What the 1 really needs is for thralls to become ghostly like the vombulysts in POE when they die. Disappearing once the duration runs out and being immune to all damage except void while in ghost form. 

 

Mesmer just needs tweaking to the display of its counter. Currently it is pretty buggy which makes it hard to know whats going on all the time.

 

Love the idea for the 3 to refresh mesmer stacks.

[Bouldershoulder]

3 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

You won't get that with DE believe me. Been here for 5 years. They are so scared of making something even remotely op that they would rather everything is mediocre/average.

I don't believe you never heard of Saryn..

[Hixlysss]

I'd love for the 3 idea to become default, but more than likely it will be an augment which is also fine. But I do feel like his 1 would benefit the most from becoming uncapped(or at least buffing the base number to something respectable like 7 or 10 and making it affected by strength). And as @Leqesai put it, his 1 should make em more distinctly different from the hordes of enemies, so makin' them all spectral would work better than just glowy thing on their head.

[racooperii]

22 minutes ago, Kagemitsukenshi said:

Alright so after finally building rev heres my 0.0002 cents

Ok so pretty much everyone is just saying remove the cap on his 1 but what if they did something with more synergy like those who are hit with mesmer skins stun dont count toward the cap that way they have somemore useful synergy

for his 3 have it refresh mesmer skin stacks based on how many people you pass through (this also synergizes his skills more giving him a 2 4 3 combo to protect your self while in your 4)

thats it with this i feel like everyone would be happy let me know what you guys think though

His 1 cap probably has to stay due to the limitations of consoles, but since Nekros gets up to 8 Specters, I don't see why Rev can't get at least that many Thralls.

[tripletriple]

9 minutes ago, Bouldershoulder said:

I don't believe you never heard of Saryn..

Exactly my point. How many Saryns have we had? 3 now...?

[Kagemitsukenshi]

11 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Saw this in another thread.

 

What the 1 really needs is for thralls to become ghostly like the vombulysts in POE when they die. Disappearing once the duration runs out and being immune to all damage except void while in ghost form. 

 

Mesmer just needs tweaking to the display of its counter. Currently it is pretty buggy which makes it hard to know whats going on all the time.

 

Love the idea for the 3 to refresh mesmer stacks.

yeah incidentally i already use the ballistaca prime for this XD 

yeah i hate that everytime you go into operator it dissappears

thanks someone in the mega thread had the idea but that thing is an ocean now i had to get their idea out there

[Hixlysss]

2 minutes ago, racooperii said:

His 1 cap probably has to stay due to the limitations of consoles, but since Nekros gets up to 8 Specters, I don't see why Rev can't get at least that many Thralls.

Then why doesn't Nyx have a cap on Chaos? I mean the thralls aren't immune to damage(which is why limiting them to 4 is crappy IMO). Nekros is limited to 7 because of the peer to peer hosting on PC, allowing for more minions that could last...for ever basically would be too much strain on potatoe PCs. But considering the only difference between Chaos and Enthrall is a level cap and the enemies ignore you...I really don't see why there is a cap at all...

[NEUDRIVER101]

Good evening, DE

  Ideally i'd like to keep this concise and to the point. So let's jump right into this. Overall I like Revenant however after a few days of testing I do believe he needs a bit more polish and adjustments before I think we can call him complete.

Ability 1 Enthrall
  Enthrall, it's a fun ability but I believe the real juice in this ability is in the energy pillars, however they're limited in scaling and flexibility. The damage from his energy pillars doesn't scale well and becomes increasingly negligible over time. also the range feels too small at base. Enemies will often avoid the pillars even with extensive modding for range. To fix these issues I would do the following.

-I would slightly increase the base range of Energy Pillars.
-Energy Pillar damage should tic more aggressively than they currently do.
-The Damage type dealt to a enemy would change to either (Corrosive/Magnetic/Gas) i.e. like Rev's 4 I would than give this 100% status chance
-Finally i'd cap thralls at 5-6
-Would also have thralls highlighted on mini-map for easier tracking

  I'd like to state my idea with these changes isn't really about trying to kill enemies outright with the pillars. But to consistently cripple the enemies defense in order to make them easier to kill. As for the increase in thralls I believe it's best to be able to keep 1 or 2 thralls alive at anyone given point in time to help keep the affliction going or to keep a enemy healer around. The increase of thralls would be a appreciated quality of life improvement over all.

Ability 2 Mesmer Skin
  Mesmer Skin, a lot of the problems with this ability has more to do with polish and quality of life issue I have with it so i'll just try to list them off quickly.

-Please always round up remaining charges to a whole numbers for this ability so the hud can stop whacking out.
-Please give us a sound effect and/or a very apparent visual que for when we run out of our last charge of MS
-Please make enemies glow when they're stunned by MS (i.e. like Argonak's laser highlighter) sometimes they're hard to spot in a crowed.
-Please allow MS to negate self damage..
-Also, if you could make the number of charges scale better with Power Strength that would be nice.

  If y'all could do at least 3 of these change that would be greatly appreciated. Especially if you get rid of that self damaging thing. That would be beautiful.

Ability 3 Reave
  Another lovable ability, but my big problem with it is that the start up on it is way to slow. It should be near instant for it to be a true escape/panic button ability. Also allow us to get shields back from armored enemies. AND THAT'S IT don't touch it anymore. I don't think people actually realize how good this ability is  on enthralled targets yet but, meh.

Side note
 I just wanna quickly throw this out there but. If you could make Zephyr's Tailwind cancel-able in flight like Revenant's 3 is. If y'all would do this I could love you guys forever. Please do this. this is something I and several other Zephyr players that I've noticed, have asked for in the past and i'm sure we'd all greatly appreciate the change. 

Ability 4 Danse Macabre
 This ability is fine, don't touch it. Incidentally if you could make the over shields drop from thralls give more over shields that would be a great quality of life improvement. currently my game play with Rev involves a lot of thralling, jumping into DS and than building over shields. This is all fine and dandy however because it takes so long to cap out on over shields this cycle can get annoying fast especially when my 2 suddenly drops and I have to start all over again. Finally I think Over shields as a mechanic needs to be buff to make shields more consistently useful but that's a conversation for another time.

 

In Closing 
Revenant is both fun and and engaging if you play him right but he still needs more work. He has lots of potential and I can't wait to see his augments. But for now he needs a little bit more love before he's great.

 

Man, this was not concise lol...

P.S. Please fix the homing on the Phantasma alt fire. I know it's unrelated but it did come with the Revenant and it needs to be fix. It's inconsistent on whether it going to work or not which mean your often wasting ammo and that's not fun. Please fix this.

Edited August 27, 2018 by NEUDRIVER101
After thought that need to be addressed.

[Bouldershoulder]

5 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

Exactly my point. How many Saryns have we had? 3 now...?

She is now more op than ever. And how about Mesa? Or invincible-during-facesmashing Atlas? Day equinox? Night equinox with sleeping provocation? Nova with 400k antimatter drops, Gara with 700k/tick 90% damage reducing shield? Aren't they op?

[Kagemitsukenshi]

11 minutes ago, racooperii said:

His 1 cap probably has to stay due to the limitations of consoles, but since Nekros gets up to 8 Specters, I don't see why Rev can't get at least that many Thralls.

then mabey cap the mesemer thralls at 4 idk