[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[Kagemitsukenshi]

14 minutes ago, Hixlysss said:

I'd love for the 3 idea to become default, but more than likely it will be an augment which is also fine. But I do feel like his 1 would benefit the most from becoming uncapped(or at least buffing the base number to something respectable like 7 or 10 and making it affected by strength). And as @Leqesai put it, his 1 should make em more distinctly different from the hordes of enemies, so makin' them all spectral would work better than just glowy thing on their head.

yeah its just my preference for things not to be really easy but yeah i like the spectral idea too

[tripletriple]

Just now, Bouldershoulder said:

She is now more op than ever. And how about Mesa? Or invincible-during-facesmashing Atlas? Day equinox? Night equinox with sleeping provocation? Nova with 400k antimatter drops, Gara with 700k/tick 90% damage reducing shield? Aren't they op?

None of those you mentioned are op. Mesa was actually nerfed. Her effective dps was anyway. She used to auto aim the entire map. 

Equinox nuke requires you to do damage first. But it's slash procs have been nerfed  Nova used to be a lot stronger destroying entire tile sets. Her nova bomb is extremely slow and requires you to charge it.  Lol at gara.

 

[Pizzarugi]

2 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

1. Enthrall Tweaks: 

 

1. Allow the cap to be affected by mods: Keep the base cap at 5 and allow mods to boost it. 
2. Remove Ally-Fire, Your Allys can kill them far too quickly, making this power useless and his combo effectiveness meaningless. Same goes for yourself. (Counter: See new power)
3. Remove the until this Ability runs out and allow them to be under control permanently (Until killed by normal means).

1. I'd rather his soft cap start at 10, but I'm okay if it's both the minimum and maximum. He was originally supposed to have 20, cutting that down to 1/5 is awful.

You can only implement either 2 or 3, both is going to let him grief teams in round-based missions like Defense and Interception. Either his thralls get no friendly-fire and get all damage they received when effect wears off, or they're under permanent control and susceptible to friendly-fire.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[SteelSoldier]

 As much as some people say that Revenant's ultimate might be a bit too strong, I wish all warframes had ultimates that were actually relevant and scaled properly for the late game, the ultimate itself has a weakness, it can't hit things above the warframe which makes vulnerable versus flying enemies and specially obsolete on the plains, I would have personally preferred if Revenant had a directional beam similar to the old Operator special that I believe got removed, the Revenant would float up and shoot a massive beam out of his chest, it could also be given a lot more power by pressing the left mouse button.

 I know people wouldn't like this as much because it would remove the beyblade ultimate but it would let Revenant have a good way to providing long range support and having a beam that just clears almost everything in front of him.

 However the thing that needs to be addressed first are his first 3 abilities, specifically his first one, we need more enthralls and these enthralls should not be killable by allies or if they are killed they should be turned into Vomvalysts or something of the sorts that provides some backup to the Revenant, at the moment it feels like a worst version of Nyx's mind control ability except it does a little eruption that damages enemies and gives some sort of shield overcharge which I am going to be honest, it does not compensate for the fact that the thralls get overwhelmed really quickly, the eruptions also do not help that much, I might as well be on the backline shooting with my gun or using my ultimate to clear mobs, what is the point of me summoning thralls?

 I use my second ability and ultimate and use my third ability to retreat since it's more responsive with my ultimate, that completely prevents me from using what is supposed to be my signature move, also with allies my signature move can't even be used, maybe I should be able to turn allies into thrall lieutenants and they can create more thralls for me or something?

[Klaleara]

I just want his Thrall's to get buffed up.  Not in survivability though, just damage.  Roid them out, make them go beyond their limits, I don't care.  I think if you make the 4 Thralls do significantly more damage, than only having 4 won't be an issue.

[racooperii]

55 minutes ago, Hixlysss said:

Then why doesn't Nyx have a cap on Chaos? I mean the thralls aren't immune to damage(which is why limiting them to 4 is crappy IMO). Nekros is limited to 7 because of the peer to peer hosting on PC, allowing for more minions that could last...for ever basically would be too much strain on potatoe PCs. But considering the only difference between Chaos and Enthrall is a level cap and the enemies ignore you...I really don't see why there is a cap at all...

That is a good point.

 

[Genoscythe]

I think Revenant feels rather blunt right now, here's an explanation why by ability:

Definitely an interesting concept that could see some tweaks, visuals are fantastic!

Stats: He is very squishy for a frame with only one lacking defensive ability and no real crowd control. Armor could be much higher, and he is built around shields which is even worse considering how inferior they are to armor. The passive also is built around shields, why not give him the ability to compensate his squishyness by adapting to the last three damage types received? Sentient-style.

1. Enthrall: See below why I think that thralling and mind-control do not work! Warframe is too fast, too violent for us needing the time to control an enemy, straight-out killing it is always better. For life-support, for mission progression, for loot. I would suggest making enthrall an ability that deals damage to an enemy while controlling it and spawns an enemy eidolon when it dies from said damage. The damage spread should proceed like before, including the control. There is no reason right now to not kill an enemy with this frame, overshield pickups are worthless, minion damage is nonexistent and they are not responsive enough. Also teammates will probably take the kill immediately, as thralls can be damaged by allies.

 

2. Mesmer skin: It would be good if the cast time would not take ages and if it would actually negate all damage sources. Right now it does not negate: Grineer rampart turrets, which are the most damaging enemy in the game, Napalm flame patches, which are the second most deadly enemy in the game. Maybe there should be a short delay where no damage can be dealt after being hit from the same enemy (0.1 sec? to not get downed by a shotgun load).

 

3. Reave: Probably the least scaling skill in the game? No range scaling, no damage scaling, only duration counts. It's really only OK-ish if you have many enemies enthralled, but maybe at least the base amount of damage could scale with STR? It could also have a DoT or debuff after hitting an enemy, but right now this ability needs the possibility to scale better! Also vertical movement should be possible, as it serves as a movement augmenter for Danse Macabre, Ledges and railings still become my worst enemy, which is kinda ridiculous.

4. Danse Macabre: While it is a lot better than the original fourth abiliy, it also is kinda disconnected from the skillset apart from his 3. I can't really place the ability in any niche, as right now it's easier to use spin to win melee than spin to win abilites, but it has the right touch to it. However, if i wanna nuke something I can still be more effective with volt or saryn, but if I want to shred something close I can still use gara, atlas or khora or simply melee, and these can also aim their abilites.

First off, I find the damage really unreliable unless up close, because it goes up and down, it takes too much time to rotate to deal damage to mid-range enemies again, making you an easy target. You also can't pass ledges or railings, as already said and it simply looks cool for a damage ability but kinda doesn't have that much use. It sometimes works against you, even: When fighting infested it will often change to gas, which is partially negated by toxic ancients, making the ability less useful! Maybe making it strongly directional would make more sense? This way enemy weakpoints could be targeted and one could concentrate the damage, being different from all other 4th abilities, because on the radial damage sector there's much better ones. Finally I don't get what the range stat does, I used ranges from 100 to 265% and I really didn't notice any difference.

And one more thing, it NEEDS to destroy containers and other environmental objects, that really breaks immersion and makes you feel disconnected from the world.

 

 

 

For more detailed explanation about why I think that enemy-controlling abilities like the thralls do not work well currently:

 

 

 

[HavocNoir]

hace 1 hora, NEUDRIVER101 dijo:

 

Ability 3 Reave
  Another lovable ability, but my big problem with it is that the start up on it is way to slow. It should be near instant for it to be a true escape/panic button ability. Also allow us to get shields back from armored enemies. AND THAT'S IT don't touch it anymore. I don't think people actually realize how good this ability is  on enthralled targets yet but, meh.

Side note
 I just wanna quickly throw this out there but. If you could make Zephyr's Tailwind cancel-able in flight like Revenant's 3 is. If y'all would do this I could love you guys forever. Please do this. this is something I and several other Zephyr players that I've noticed, have asked for in the past and i'm sure we'd all greatly appreciate the change. 

 

I would just have to say to the bolded part of your reave statement is, no one knows how good it is with enthralled targets because there is no enthralled targets to use them on, they are killed way to fast  

 

as for my contribution 

Passive: does it have a passive I don't even notice it 

Ability 1: as everyone said increase the cap or keep the cap but make them invulnerable to ally damage and I would change how it interact with targets instead of selecting a target could it be changed to a sort of mini bomb that enthrall the targets in the explosion, also can we have some sort of thrall counter so we can keep track of how many thralls we have at the moment ?

 

Ability 2: I also think the charges are to low and besides taking to long to cast there is no way to refresh or replenish the charges, plus the weakness of vulnerability to status that takes the charges away

 

Ability 3: it really takes to much time, I would expect that it was as fast as void dash, for me reave seems like an emergency escape or movement, also can we add as someone else pointed out that it synergize with ability 2 by replenishing charges ?

Ability 4: if I had one complain it would be that imo does not fit with the theme of the other abilities I mean we go from a being like is kind of ghostly and earie to a ballet dancer, I was expecting something like being able to make the thralls explode and cause damage to enemies as well as make them vulnerable to enthrall similar to what ability 2 does, anyway I think is the ability that is most useful as of now

[Bouldershoulder]

1 hour ago, SteelSoldier said:

the Revenant would float up and shoot a massive beam out of his chest

Mega smasher, anyone?..

Spoiler

 

 

[tripletriple]

I still think they need to either keep or remove his 3 or 2. Having both is redundant.

How I would fix him. 

1. Increase his cap to 15 min and scale with str to 20 max.

2. Remove, add mini vomalysts that absorb and do damage. They are moddable like sentinals and do damage based on how much you've done.

3. Remove casting delay give him a damage buff after using it like rhino roar type deal.

4. Perfect.

Edited August 27, 2018 by tripletriple

[DarthBane1]

More thralls please. Like 10 instead of 4. 

[JoeH2O]

Pretty much every ability except 4 sucks

Not what i expected at all this Warframe was so good and now look at him... absolute garbage

[Klaleara]

1 hour ago, MarrikBroom said:

Technically a survivability buff but all the damage they take gets delt to them at ability end rather than during ability. IE guy takes several tigris blasts? it won't kill them til the ability ends then they take it all at once.

 

That is how I would buff minion surviveability.

I like the concept, but its too confusing for other players.  They would be wasting time trying to kill something that can't be killed.

Also, defense missions require them to die, so also a problem.

I would also like to be able to hold down the ability, in order to release the ability from them.

[Klaleara]

1 minute ago, MarrikBroom said:

Simple addition then. Hold down the ability button to detonate any remaining thralls.

Still, they can't be invincible.  Nyx, and Nekros prove that it is just annoying as F.

[Bouldershoulder]

6 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

I like the concept, but its too confusing for other players.  They would be wasting time trying to kill something that can't be killed.

Also, defense missions require them to die, so also a problem.
 

Nyx again

Spoiler

 

🙄

Edited August 27, 2018 by Bouldershoulder

[Klaleara]

Just now, MarrikBroom said:

Hm. Maybe instead spawn friendly vombulysts explicitly as ally units when the enemy dies before duration is up?

*flashbacks to oberon's holding up defense waves due to grineer pet summons*

Honestly, I don't see much of an issue with allies killing them.  At least on missions with compact enemies without much mobilization.  I love casting the ability, and see it spread like crazy due to seeing all the tornado's all over the place.

If anything, I'd say raise the cap, so that the ability keeps spreading.  That or increase their damage to the point where they actually do meaningful damage.

[LuciferTF]

First off I would like to say that I understand it can be hard to make the perfect additions to a game when making 30+ versions of that addition(Warframes in this case).  Personally I appreciate the work ya'll do, and you seem to enjoy it which is important.  With that being said I think Revenant was a bit rushed, i've seen some people ingame call him OP which I think is incredibly untrue.  He is good at killing low level enemies as are most frames but Saryn, Mesa, Absorb Nyx, Nidus etc are better choices IMO.  As a few people mentioned his Reave needs to be changed visually and possibly enthrall the enemies hit by it, maybe redirect damage taken by Revenant to thralls as well.  Enthrall being capped at 4 is very limiting and doesn't make the ability worth the time unless you want overshield.  Which also brings another issue which is that teammates can kill thralls before you use Danse to get overshield, which is also slightly odd since you can't choose whether or not you want to kill the thrall with Danse. 

So my suggestions

Enthrall: Switched to a Kill Thralls ability and have them drop Overshield and Health. 

Mesmer Skin: More charges or ability to cast while Danse is active.

Reave: Doesn't give health and shields but instead enthralls enemies (along with different cast effects).

Danse Macabre: Danse is tough, personally I like the animation but some people don't so obviously that is something to think about.  It doesn't do enough damage in higher level missions considering the amount of damage taken.  You would have to keep on Mesmer Skin(which has a very low amount of charges considering it can stun), but you can't keep Mesmer active without going out of Danse which decreases the amount of overrall DPS and you will lose the amount of damage taken to damage increase multiplier.  I think Danse should keep its current base damage output but instead of redirecting damage taken to damage output possibly increase the damage it does according to how many enemies you have enthralled.  That way you can give thralls multiple uses(health/overshield or damage).  Or decreasing the speed at which you lose the damage output boost. 

Also, another option for killing thralls instead of totally reworking Enthrall and Mesmer is making the channel of Danse kill thralls instead of just instantly doing without the player having a choice.

Edited August 27, 2018 by LuciferTF
Made it easier to read and more straight forward. (Copied other peoples format lul)

[EinheriarJudith]

32 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

Honestly, I don't see much of an issue with allies killing them.  At least on missions with compact enemies without much mobilization.  I love casting the ability, and see it spread like crazy due to seeing all the tornado's all over the place.

If anything, I'd say raise the cap, so that the ability keeps spreading.  That or increase their damage to the point where they actually do meaningful damage.

the only proliferation skill that has no problems in this game is spore. other ones suffer slow spread. playing with him in solo i could see how much of a benefit it was to have them stay alive. i thought he was gonna step all over nyx. i was wrong.

[EinheriarJudith]

8 minutes ago, LuciferTF said:

~snip~

rather than having danse macabre give overshield for killing thralls i think it should give it for just hitting them. trinity can litterally spam overshield with her augment, and so can volt.

Edited August 27, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

Brief Recommendations:

Enthrall: Increase enemy cap to about 8-10

Mesmer Skin: Increase base charges to about 10. Only 6 charges makes for builds that are too power strength intensive. Perhaps allow the ability to be recast if the amount of charges drops below half. The survivability drop-off for waiting to hit 0 charges is too steep. Perhaps allow a 1-2 second invulnerability period if the ability does get to 0 charges. The cast animation is long, but I think that makes a good balancing factor/drawback if other changes are made. So that's fine.

Reave: From what I've seen this ability gives barely any health for passing through enemies that are not Enthralled. I think it should be at least 150-200 health per enemy. Perhaps even more than that if they are Enthralled. The low end lifesteal of hitting enemies without Enthrall should be higher though. Especially because you can't cast Enthrall in Danse Macabre. And using Reave in Danse Macabre is one of the main places it can be useful, especially in mid-tier enemy levels like Onslaught.

Edit: Also I heard an idea for a good synergy where perhaps you could use Reave to pass through enemies and restore charges of Mesmer Skin. That would be especially useful during Danse Macabre and create an objective you have to fulfill besides just dealing damage. Meanwhile it would also come with the drawback that it costs significant energy which is precious during Danse Macabre.

Danse Macabre: This ability actually has really good scaling and design. I was a bit worried when we found out it wouldn't use weapon mods, but that doesn't seem to hold it back actually. Good Job. Though Danse Macabre needs Mesmer Skin to be better because you are very vulnerable using this ability and taking hits is important for scaling.

Edited August 27, 2018 by (PS4)Jedi_Arts_

[NotWhoItSeems]

here are my thoughts on the rev as of update 23.5

passive -> counter productive to his kit, feels like it has the same problem as vaubans passive used to have, squishy frame with a passive that is defencive based on taking damage.

1-> could be a good ability if it would stop the affect enemys from fighting each other, ancients still protect enemys, and you cannot cast once theres 4 enemys effect.

this is without the problems of it effecting things that it shouldnt on the plains like eidolon lures and flying drop ships, taking the spots out of your possible 4 till you exit the session...

2-> fairly good ability, very risk reward possitive, only 2 issues are that the number of charges isnt an integer making an odd 0 hit counter... or that what I would say if things that can 1 shoot you, would simply do so over the charges, making an ability that seems good not that great anymore...

3-> does good damage to thralls, but you can only have 4, and to non thralls seems to do no damage, a good movement skill for the 4th

4-> great damage ability, falls off at around level 100ish, reciving overshield pick up from killing thralls is a nice concept, but the number of thralls really gimps it and it goes against the passive that procs while the shield depletes, would be better if this was some sort of ironskin like stack that procs before taking health damage, making it synargize with the passive.

Edited August 27, 2018 by NotWhoItSeems

[Sesaline]

Why did DE give Revenant an AoE damage toggle skill? How is this any different from the old WoF or Quake Banshee? It can kill through terrain and obstacles with a base of 50 meters.  

Want to talk about a lazy frame? Watch a Rev press 4 and spin like a ballerina on top of the defense pod for the entire mission. Recently all I can hear is the distant continual lawnmower sound of a Revenant literally spinning to win without a single required movement to get the job done. I don't think he is OP. I think his entire design is just really, really dumb. The beams automatically change to fit the enemy armor/shield type too like.. what even is this rush job of a frame? Everything about it screams quick $$$ business from the grind and the rep requirement to get him all the way down to the actual usefulness of this frame. What people will pay for some quick MR...

He even looks like they just reskinned Limbo..??

I feel bad for anyone who bought this frame with plat... especially those who bought the whole market bundle. Total yikes. But I guess this was bound to happen when DE wants to crank out frames in a timely manner for sales. They settle and push the design through despite apparent problems and backtracking into territory they say they want to stay away from.

How could his 4 be changed to be something that actually promotes moving around and being active? How could it be changed to actually look and sound cool? Because right now he's a meme. A terrible meme. Seeing a Rev in my squad makes me cringe. Hearing them spin makes me cringe. He needs a serious fix to be taken seriously. I have zero interest at all in getting this frame as it stands now.

[Fishyflakes]

Hey don't knock it till you try it yo.

[IceColdHawk]

12 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

I think his entire design is just really, really dumb. The beams automatically change to fit the enemy armor/shield type too like.. what even is this rush job of a frame?

He's a sentient frame. And sentients can adapt to damage. If anything i find this pretty lore-friendly for once.

I see you dislike the frame for several reasons which i personally can't support. I for one enjoy the scalability and viability of this frame in high levels. Unlike some other frames, he doesn't have to sit in a globe to do his tricks while fighting against lvl 200+ enemies. And on the other hand, i find most of our "dance emotes" more cringy than this spin but that's just up to taste.

[GlitchedVision0101]

Here are my thoughts on the revenant issue at hand. I love the current synergies and how the abilities are meant to work together, however, they don't have the staying power they should in order to make him viable for anything else except spamming lazers on flat maps. I love this frame both from an asthetic as well as a lore perspective, but there's a few issues with his abilities. I am actually hoping DE can make a good minion frame somehow, whether it be here with revenant, or with nyx, but the unfortunate fact is that it may not be possible with the backlash from many players. Here's how I would update or change each ability to make him more interesting and better at what his current kit has him doing.

Passive: either increase the range of the pulse, or shift it to something more interesting. When downed, your thralls begin giving their lives and energy to heal you, this both extends your bleed timer and reduces the time it takes for an ally to resurrect you. Enough thralls can reduce the revival gauge to 0, giving you a free revive. This would be similar to trying to keep vombulists away from a dying eidolon.

1: enthralled enemies become allies, losing the enemy status, allowing defense missions to continue after the rest of the wave is gone, after their duration, they die instantly instead of returning to enemy state

2. add a damage/status immunity for a short time after a charge is consumed. this prevents the instant loss of the small amount of charges you have available, alternatively, increase the number of charges greatly.

3: graphical improvement, as well as maybe adding an inthralling effect to enemies you pass through that are not currently enthralled. 

4: good ability, but vertical areas sort of make it not very great. Instead of having lmb just increase the range and power, give us more control of a powerful beam in addition to the smaller less powerful circle of death. this would allow us to catch enemies on higher ground.

Ultimately, the main issue with minion frames is that other players end up wasting ammo and abilities on minions, and the menions themselves do not do enough to aid a squad because they often die before they can become useful due to friendly fire. The alternative is that they hold up missions because they stand in this wierd half enemy state that holds back defense and survival waves because the game still reads enemies even though they are non hostile to players. Finding a way to fix the second issue overall may make minion controll frames like Nyx, Nekros, and now Revenant both more fun and viable for people who want to feel like the master of several slightly weaker damage sources instead of one powerful one.