Let's Talk: Content Drought - What DE can learn from this

[DeMonkey]

Can't tell if you're blinded by bias or if you're being disingenuous. One of the two, I'm sure.

But you know what, if you hand on heart swear you've never used an excuse in your life, I'll accept your outlook as valid. If not, you know full well why some people excuse DE. There are things that are excusable, not everything mind, but there are certainly some things.

But from what you've posted you cannot see that, it looks like you see everything in black or white (just like twits who call others White Knights), with those who excuse DE on one side and those who don't on the other, those who want them to get better and those who are content to let DE stagnate in an eternal struggle.

Which leads me back to my first sentence, either you're blinded by your own personal bias on the matter and can't actually see that multiple people can have multiple opinions and multiple goals, or you do know this and you're being disingenuous for... controversies sake I guess.

Edited October 5, 2018 by DeMonkey

[Walkampf]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Napalm13b:

What does anyone benefit from making excuses for DE? Do those ppl not want the game to be better? If all my customers just made excuses for my business' short comings, we would go downhill very fast and so will they. I think we should always push for the DE to make the game a far better experience. Keep in mind they are a business and we control the money they receive so why not ask for things to get better?

In short; I would like to know why you (if you are one of the people who do it) make excuses for them while not actually knowing the reasoning behind the problems with update delivery or other issues with the game.

1st. This kind of negativity is just as harmful as zealous positivity.

2nd. Often, maybe even most of the time, people who are "trying to make the game better" whould break certain aspects of the game if their "improvments" whould be implemented. I think a Dev at Blizzard once said "Players just don't know what they want." People  often become experts in their own minds about the topic and think the devs are blind to the problem of their own product. They try to teach the Devs over their own game. These people are so narrowminded, that they don't realise how stupid their ideas are in the longrun of the game.

Especially the mellenial-generation is very prone to falling victim to the dunning kruger effect.

[Marvelous_A]

Care for some background? Excuses for what exactly?

[Gamma745]

Because there are a lot of people who are very willing to raise torches and pitchforks against DE for every little thing that "offended" them, thinking DE is wanting to piss off and screw over the playerbase.

[Oreades]

3 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Care for some background? Excuses for what exactly?

I don't think it really matters to them at this point, a few Warframe partners have been posting "Warframe is doooomed" videos Some of them with some points and some of them are more hyperbolic rantings. So I'd wager a decent bit of the recent forum unrest is their communities extending those less cogent rants into the forums without significant direction. 

[-AiLuoLi-]

Ah, another one of these. How many threads are we gonna see this weekend? All this just because some "Youber" said something.

Edited October 5, 2018 by -AiLuoLi-

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Funny thing is that no matter what the subject is, some people will always make excuses. 

The fact that DE has made a wonderful job in creating and maintaining this incredible game doesnt make them immune to errors.

Positive feedback helps more than a rub in your back when mistakes happen.

[(PSN)Napalm13b]

Was just curious really. Just browsing the forums and seeing when problems with updates or content arise, an overwhelming amount of people just say things like: they are just a small company, Sony's cert process is the hold up for updates on console, certification is really expensive, PC are the "beta testers" for the updates, they are tied up with Fortuna, they want to release larger updates further apart, etc.

All of which may be true or could be false. We don't know and may never know. What we do know is there hasn't been much content i the past months and there are a lot of problems that need to be addressed in the game. I personally think that we should all get together and push for these issues to be brought up and openly discussed with DE.

Do they owe us answers? That's debatable. A lot of us don't really have much meaningful content left to play, yet we still buy the prime access' and whatnot to support them when most items are easily grinded for. They also make players feel somewhat entitled to having input with the game.

I love Warframe and I know most people in the forums do as well, but nothing will change if half the community wants to address the issues and the other half justifies them.

[GinKenshin]

1 hour ago, Jestonhomme said:

Farming rep isn't easy

It is if you’re a Q lol

[FlusteredFerret]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Napalm13b said:

What does anyone benefit from making excuses for DE? Do those ppl not want the game to be better? If all my customers just made excuses for my business' short comings, we would go downhill very fast and so will they. I think we should always push for the DE to make the game a far better experience. Keep in mind they are a business and we control the money they receive so why not ask for things to get better?

In short; I would like to know why you (if you are one of the people who do it) make excuses for them while not actually knowing the reasoning behind the problems with update delivery or other issues with the game.

Because due to my line of work, I have a good idea how projects can end up taking longer than they should to complete, how things can get left out, changed, added etc.

Even if you start off with a clear idea of what you want to achieve and when you want it done by, all sorts of things can happen that throw a spanner in the works. People get sick, leave, come up with new ideas that you feel need to be incorporated. You might find out that something can't be done the way you want, so you have to find a new way of doing it, or come up with an alternative. All of which can flush your carefully planned schedule down the toilet.

As I said in another post, you can do all the planning and make all the contingencies you want, but its still surprisingly easy to go off schedule.

You can blame DE's insistence on continuing to work with a small staff and keep work in-house...which is their right to do...but you should keep in mind they will have a pretty good idea of their capabilities and ability to deliver stuff, after 5 years on this game. So its more likely other factors are affecting their output of new content.

You said it yourself...we are aware of a small part of the problem, which is largely self-imposed...but we certainly don't know the whole story.

So instead of castigating DE, why not try and show a little understanding?

[Firetempest]

Maybe a lot of us are tired of the armchair developers who are obviously not fit to "lead".

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Napalm13b said:

Was just curious really. Just browsing the forums and seeing when problems with updates or content arise, an overwhelming amount of people just say things like: they are just a small company, Sony's cert process is the hold up for updates on console, certification is really expensive, PC are the "beta testers" for the updates, they are tied up with Fortuna, they want to release larger updates further apart, etc.

All of which may be true or could be false. We don't know and may never know. What we do know is there hasn't been much content i the past months and there are a lot of problems that need to be addressed in the game. I personally think that we should all get together and push for these issues to be brought up and openly discussed with DE.

Do they owe us answers? That's debatable. A lot of us don't really have much meaningful content left to play, yet we still buy the prime access' and whatnot to support them when most items are easily grinded for. They also make players feel somewhat entitled to having input with the game.

I love Warframe and I know most people in the forums do as well, but nothing will change if half the community wants to address the issues and the other half justifies them.

I see, so what you're not saying is that this thread, like the 40 before it, is about LifeOfRio's video?

You cannot unify a community this diverse, a community is not a hivemind that can be controlled. Furthermore I think we've actually done a pretty good job of raising the issues with DE, DE are just set on doing something else. Short of breaking in and physically abusing DE until they do what we want, there's not much more that we can do.

Honestly, I think LifeOfRio is severely out of touch with the community if he intends to blame this stuff on us, and frankly as a Partner he's arguably more to blame than anyone here. Where's his feedback threads? Where are his comments defending the people raising the issues if people making excuses is such a problem? Why is he not actively taking part in the discussions and pushing for changes?

Nope, easier to just make a video and blame the community for being a community, that'll definitely solve everything.

Can you see how silly this all is? Just because some people justify everything doesn't mean you can't argue against, it doesn't mean DE listen to them, there's so much it doesn't mean that all of these threads are just rubbish, and if you look around that video has in fact done more to divide the community than unite it.

[FlusteredFerret]

1 hour ago, German said:

I'm pretty sure those people also want things to improve but it doesn't help only seeing things from one side.

Exactly - its not like they are doing it on purpose.

They could release Fortuna now, with all its remaining bugs and half-finished stuff and those same people would criticise DE for a garbage update.

Its taking so long because they care enough about their product and player base to make it the best they can. It'll likely still have bugs, but they won't be anything like as bad as they would otherwise be.

As it is, a mainline update is in the pipeline to address some other outstanding issues...so they're working on other stuff besides the big content updates.

Edited October 5, 2018 by FlusteredFerret

[VentiGlondi]

What does anyone benefit from making this thread? Do those ppl not have anything better to do? If all my forum members just made meta complaint threads, we would go downhill very fast and so will they.

 

The thread has been merged, now my post looks silly

Edited October 7, 2018 by VentiGlondi

[PoisonHD]

1 hour ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

Ah, another one of these. How many threads are we gonna see this weekend? All this just because some "Youber" said something.

Which youtuber? I feel out of the loop

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, PoisonHD said:

Which youtuber? I feel out of the loop

I mentioned him 2 posts before yours. 

Life Of Rio.

[PoisonHD]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

I mentioned him 2 posts before yours. 

Life Of Rio.

Ah, thank you, I feel like I need to watch it to be informed about what exactly prompted this haha

[Firetempest]

4 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

Which youtuber? I feel out of the loop

Pick one. If they only do WF content they likely ran out of things to show people every other day so now they are selling outrage tell Fortuna.

[Zyneris]

To be fair....DE did comment on LoR's video....

Quote

PlayWarframe2 days ago

Hmm...maybe it’s the Canadian in us making it seem like we are "too nice" for that raw constructive feedback - but we definitely do get it. But like you mentioned, it is hearing from our community that has helped us craft our game for so long. After all...we all lift together 😉

They acknowledged what he said, so there is some merit behind what he said. 

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

à l’instant, PoisonHD a dit :

Ah, thank you, I feel like I need to watch it to be informed about what exactly prompted this haha

If you don't know the youtube game you shouldn't start watching and continue to enjoy your life normally. There is almost only sorrow and despair coming off youtube gaming content.

[(PSN)Sgt_Buttscratch]

I tend to lean on the side of leniency.
I have done some doomsaying in the past (void keys to relics) was wrong.

Witnessed the PC crybabies "RIP Mag" era, they were wrong

 

I am a space nerd, love it. I think its the lack of humans that space offers that makes it seem like my ideal habitat. I play ED, fly around for thousands of thousands of light years, just looking at planets, annoy my family with space documentaries on 'family movie night'. When I saw rail jack, got a boner. Then decided I'll happily wait.

Some of us are just patient. Tis all

[aswitz87]

Most complaints can be boiled down to someone’s being a salty whiner because things are not going along with their unrealistic expectations.

Every game has that.  The only variation is the ratio of saltiness to genuine issues.  In the case of Warframe, there are many more salty complaints compared to genuine issue complaints, even if there are a ton of issues.

[Acos]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Napalm13b said:

What does anyone benefit from making excuses for DE? Do those ppl not want the game to be better? If all my customers just made excuses for my business' short comings, we would go downhill very fast and so will they. I think we should always push for the DE to make the game a far better experience. Keep in mind they are a business and we control the money they receive so why not ask for things to get better?

In short; I would like to know why you (if you are one of the people who do it) make excuses for them while not actually knowing the reasoning behind the problems with update delivery or other issues with the game.

Realize that I am speaking very generally, and not necessarily about you. 

Its' one thing to give constructive criticism; Nobody really has an issue with that, and DE generally welcomes it. However, constructive criticism has not been the bulk of my user experience on these forums, and I get some kind of pervasive joy out of arguing with people who are whining about things they largely don't understand for changes they haven't really thought through. I do genuinely like the developers as people, and feel a certain level of kinship towards them after watching devstreams and playing their game for so long. 

I have a general distaste for "doom! threads", of which the internet has too many. The world has too many actual problems for those to ever come off seriously. I've only ever watched one MMO that I cared for actually die, so these tend to be overly dramatic and entirely detached from reality. 

Finally, I know it can be easier for people who aren't being met with applause and admiration to label people who don't agree with them as "white knights", but most of the time it has less to do with someones' blind devotion to a product, and much more for that person to just have genuinely bad ideas. Labels are a crutch for losers; Good ideas will be met with praise. Good ideas won't need to call people names. 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Acos
needed more pepper.

[rune_me]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Napalm13b said:

What does anyone benefit from making excuses for DE? Do those ppl not want the game to be better? If all my customers just made excuses for my business' short comings, we would go downhill very fast and so will they. I think we should always push for the DE to make the game a far better experience. Keep in mind they are a business and we control the money they receive so why not ask for things to get better?

In short; I would like to know why you (if you are one of the people who do it) make excuses for them while not actually knowing the reasoning behind the problems with update delivery or other issues with the game.

I will venture a wild assumption.

What if ... stay with me here ... those people aren't actually making excuses for DE? What if they just happen to disagree that the suggestion made would make the game better? 

Not everyone shares your ideas of what would improve the game. That's not making excuses for anyone. That's just disagreeing with you.

Edited October 6, 2018 by rune_me

[Zimzala]

1 hour ago, Firetempest said:

Maybe a lot of us are tired of the armchair developers who are obviously not fit to "lead".

This, over and over and over again.

Any company makes mistakes and some humans like to be nice while other just like to be jerks.

Some call it tough love, some call it making excuses, some call it understanding how the world works and how deadlines and investors and developers all need herding like cats.

Some people seem to think game forums are some kind of community driven developement tactic, when in fact they exist only because of the larger amount of whining and conspiracy theories that would exist without them.

Armchair developers exist at all levels and in all channels of software developement; gamers take it to an extreme, because they are so aggressive and full of thier own inflated egos because they 'killed the boss on hard'.

Armchair developers kill good software.