The very simple reason I'm disappointed with Arbitrations

[(PSN)dewhiskeys-uk]

Before today, I could have said to anybody:

"You can play, for free, an astonishing amount of content, in any way you want: any combination of warframes, weapons, companions and squad members. Have fun the way you like"

Today I have to add:

"Except the new end-game mode. For that, you have to complete all the missions in the star chart, including those you didn't like, but that you could skip because it never mattered for your progression."

Basically, to access a new game mode, i need to play the game the way you want, not the way I like. I have to play something I don't like, to play something i might like. This is not going to make me like those missions any more: indeed I now hate them even more because they are going to turn a (so far) pleasant experience into a painful one, just to try something new.

I'm disappointed because, to my eyes, this is a change in direction for one of the key features of the game.

You could have put this mode behind a MR requirement, like 16, 17 or 18. It's high, but I can get there any way I like, and that would have been somewhat an indication of how much content I experienced, and how much I am prepared to face the arbitration. Completing the star chart does not mean anything, does not even prepare you for sorties.

[Melanholic7]

Ehm. And if u dont love some kind of mission u wont even pass early planets,cause u want open junction. so what?? lol. 

its soooooo hard to close remaining locations /s

i did 30 of them today, while watching films. Soo hard. 

[-STR-Lotus]

I don't think we should do injustice really nice content came 

I don't think you're happy with the limit for the star map.

I think it would be very easy to get some things without a certain limit.

and finally, it's not so hard to complete the star map.

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by -STR-Lotus

[fishworshipper]

...So you don't like Arbitrations because they require you to actually play the game?

[trst]

Oh no you're forced to complete a check list of objectives to finish Junctions.

Oh no you're forced to complete Junctions to access the other planets.

Oh no you're forced to farm for/buy blueprints to get new weapons and frames.

Oh no you're forced to farm resources and credits to build new weapons and frames.

Oh no you're forced to complete prerequisite quests to do other quests.

And now you're forced to finish the star chart to do Arbitrations.

Oh no.

 

All of this is part of Warframe's progression. Yes even completing the entire star chart before this update because it gives mastery progress. This isn't new, surprising, or even remotely difficult.

[(XBOX)TheNotVirus]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)dewhiskeys-uk said:

Before today, I could have said to anybody:

"You can play, for free, an astonishing amount of content, in any way you want: any combination of warframes, weapons, companions and squad members. Have fun the way you like"

Today I have to add:

"Except the new end-game mode. For that, you have to complete all the missions in the star chart, including those you didn't like, but that you could skip because it never mattered for your progression."

Basically, to access a new game mode, i need to play the game the way you want, not the way I like. I have to play something I don't like, to play something i might like. This is not going to make me like those missions any more: indeed I now hate them even more because they are going to turn a (so far) pleasant experience into a painful one, just to try something new.

I'm disappointed because, to my eyes, this is a change in direction for one of the key features of the game.

You could have put this mode behind a MR requirement, like 16, 17 or 18. It's high, but I can get there any way I like, and that would have been somewhat an indication of how much content I experienced, and how much I am prepared to face the arbitration. Completing the star chart does not mean anything, does not even prepare you for sorties.

So in other words...

Me: Mom, you know I don't like doing the dishes.

Mom: Dishes or no computer.

Me: Can I clean my room?  I like cleaning my room.

Mom: Dishes or no computer.

[SnuggleBuckets]

35 minutes ago, (XB1)TheNotVirus said:

So in other words...

Me: Mom, you know I don't like doing the dishes.

Mom: Dishes or no computer.

Me: Can I clean my room?  I like cleaning my room.

Mom: Dishes or no computer.

Yaay, Warframe is a chore, a job (a full-time day job apparently for a lot of obsessed people), and not an entertaining videogame, because that is such a healthy and positive attitude to take.
/s
 

[peterc3]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)dewhiskeys-uk said:

but I can get there any way I like

Well, no, you couldn't. You couldn't possibly like all the weapons and frames to get you to that point. Plus, completing nodes give you Mastery. So, really, they have locked it behind MR, just in an indirect manner.

[RoninJed]

So your complaining about new players not having instant access to the the new end-game mode...did...did I read that right hehe.

[JesterTheNight]

1 hour ago, trst said:

Yes even completing the entire star chart before this update because it gives mastery progress.

 

16 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Plus, completing nodes give you Mastery. So, really, they have locked it behind MR, just in an indirect manner.

 

Guys, star chart nodes don't give mastery anymore. This changed when junctions were introduced in the game, now junctions give 1000 mastery points instead of completing all nodes for mastery.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Junction

[JohnProdman]

8 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

So your complaining about new players not having instant access to the the new end-game mode...did...did I read that right hehe.

No, you didn't.

20 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

So, really, they have locked it behind MR, just in an indirect manner.

Sure, a minuscule 14,613 for the nodes and an additional 13,000 for the Junctions. Hardly a barrier, I say.

[CupcakesMoo]

5 hours ago, fishworshipper said:

...So you don't like Arbitrations because they require you to actually play the game?

What can I say you walked right into this one, OP. 

/thread

[-NightmareMoon-]

I really like this requirement because you will be paired with people that actually give a damn about progression and are most likely good players, I have run this new mode a couple of times and every time, everyone was doing their job properly, I almost shed a tear.

Sorry OP, but you are just a lazy bum that dont deserve doing this mode.

Edited October 13, 2018 by -NightmareMoon-

[Goodwill]

You must be new to games? I mean, I couldn't fight Bowser until I went through all of the boring platform stages beforehand...

[Talinthis]

It is good they did that. Now at least you have a chance to have somewhat decent teammates

[-CdG-Zilchy]

WAAAAAH I can't play the new game mode and it's not fair!!! WAAAAAAH

[Guest]

Ya know, as an MR 25 who (surprise surprise) has not completed all the Dark Sector missions, I am barred from elite alerts until I finish them, despite doing everything else already.

And instead of complaining I just build the Orokin Derelict keys and start doing all the low level Dark Sector maps (because other than Heiracon and Piscinas I found the rest completely a waste of time). It is kind of annoying as I finished Orokin Derelict Exterminate loads of times but it shows up as not done.

Ya know, if you wanna unlock the Arbitrations/Elite Alerts it is shorter and more direct to just finish up those missions over whining in the forums. In fact, putting it at MR 18 or higher just makes stuff harder for most players because I don't know, you can complete the whole starchart by like MR 10.

[tfninja]

6 hours ago, (PS4)dewhiskeys-uk said:

Before today, I could have said to anybody:

"You can play, for free, an astonishing amount of content, in any way you want: any combination of warframes, weapons, companions and squad members. Have fun the way you like"

Today I have to add:

"Except the new end-game mode. For that, you have to complete all the missions in the star chart, including those you didn't like, but that you could skip because it never mattered for your progression."

Basically, to access a new game mode, i need to play the game the way you want, not the way I like. I have to play something I don't like, to play something i might like. This is not going to make me like those missions any more: indeed I now hate them even more because they are going to turn a (so far) pleasant experience into a painful one, just to try something new.

I'm disappointed because, to my eyes, this is a change in direction for one of the key features of the game.

You could have put this mode behind a MR requirement, like 16, 17 or 18. It's high, but I can get there any way I like, and that would have been somewhat an indication of how much content I experienced, and how much I am prepared to face the arbitration. Completing the star chart does not mean anything, does not even prepare you for sorties.

"Basically, to access a new game mode, i need to play the game the way you want, not the way I like. I have to play something I don't like, to play something i might like."

 

Switch to

 

"Basically, to acquire a Nikana Prime, i need to play Orokin defense missions. I need to play the game the way you want, not the way I like. I have to play something I don't like, to use something i might like."

Exactly the same logic.. Just basic self-entitlement.

You've been doing it all the time, grinding something you might not like to get something you like. I had about 15 missions to do to finish the star chart, and it was nothing as bad as half the grinds in the game. Try grinding Ivara. Personally I hate quests, and excavation, and defection.. but if you want the reward you grin and bare it.

Edited October 13, 2018 by tfninja

[Xarteros]

6 hours ago, (PS4)dewhiskeys-uk said:

Before today, I could have said to anybody:

"You can play, for free, an astonishing amount of content, in any way you want: any combination of warframes, weapons, companions and squad members. Have fun the way you like"

Today I have to add:

"Except the new end-game mode. For that, you have to complete all the missions in the star chart, including those you didn't like, but that you could skip because it never mattered for your progression."

Basically, to access a new game mode, i need to play the game the way you want, not the way I like. I have to play something I don't like, to play something i might like. This is not going to make me like those missions any more: indeed I now hate them even more because they are going to turn a (so far) pleasant experience into a painful one, just to try something new.

I'm disappointed because, to my eyes, this is a change in direction for one of the key features of the game.

You could have put this mode behind a MR requirement, like 16, 17 or 18. It's high, but I can get there any way I like, and that would have been somewhat an indication of how much content I experienced, and how much I am prepared to face the arbitration. Completing the star chart does not mean anything, does not even prepare you for sorties.

Completing elements of the star chart (junctions, anyway) has already been a requirement in the past.

Arbitrations is like a Nightmare mode. You can't get Nightmare missions until you clear all the nodes on a planet. Arbitrations require ALL the planets to be cleared, because they can spawn anywhere. It's quite simple.

[withinmyself]

I was actually extremely happy that they had the 100% requirement as opposed to Master Rank.  Because someone can fly through those ranks without really taking in all the content this game has to offer.  I've started looking at peoples actual game time and I was astonished to find multiple accounts at MR15 and above that were around 150 hours.  I had been playing for 400 hours when I was still at MR10.  But like you said this game lets you play how you want and you played how you wanted to play. 

But endgame material has got to have different standards.  The most proud I was at anything was the day I got my Synoid Gammacor after reaching level 5 with Sephalon Suda.  Something that seemed absolutely impossible when I first started playing.  I just reached rank 4 on Cetus which seemed impossible just 2 weeks ago.  That was a hell of a grind.  As it should be.   And I just got 100% of the star chart done right before this new material. Also an incredible undertaking but worth every minute.

Moving up your MR is as simple as putting another weapon in your secondary and melee and just forgetting about it.  You don't really do anything for MR.  I dunno.  Probably not the most popular opinion but that's how I've felt since I started playing this game.  Especially since when you start a new public squad the first thing you do is look at MR and form an uninformed opinion.  MR20? He must be amazing!!  MR6?  Laughable...and look he's playing Mag.  Idiot.  5 minutes later the MR20 guy dies once and leaves while Mag rakes in the most damage.   

It's not like you weren't having fun before there was something you couldn't have.  You can still play your own way, nobody is taking that from you.

[(PSN)Valar_Morgoolis]

Tbh im glad they decided to restrict it for certain players only, finally something for vererans. DE has been catering to new players for way too long.

And yes i know that clearing the star chart doesnt necessarly make u a vet but most of the people with a finished or near to being finished star chart are mostly veterans 

[(PSN)dewhiskeys-uk]

Well, thanks all for the time you spent replying to my post. Whether you agree or disagree, you've been constructive or silly or else, I appreciated. If you are interested ind keeping the discussion in a constructive way, I'm up for it.

[Invictus13307]

It's not the first time content has been gated behind progression. 

Alerts, Invasions, and Void Fissures require you to at least have access to the mission node, Nightmare missions require you to have cleared the entire planet.  Kuva and Sortie missions are gated behind The War Within.  Tridolons are effectively gated behind amp, focus, and Quill progression.  Arbitrations requiring full star chart completion isn't a sudden change in direction, and it isn't even a difficult requirement.  Playing the game, doing quests, and killing bosses will get you the vast majority of the nodes, and by that point you'll have the tools to easily solo the remaining ones. 

Arbitrations just require you to make a conscious effort to unlock them, instead of being something you can get by hailing a taxi or sitting at Hydron for a couple weeks.  It's not a bad thing.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 14 minutes, (PS4)dewhiskeys-uk a dit :

Well, thanks all for the time you spent replying to my post. Whether you agree or disagree, you've been constructive or silly or else, I appreciated. If you are interested ind keeping the discussion in a constructive way, I'm up for it.

Sure 😄

I think it was a goood way to lock them behind progression to be honest. If you've played a long time you probably only had a couple of nodes not unlocked anyway. It was a nice gesture to people who played longer. 

Also, these missions are like the next step after Nightmare missions, and to get Nightmare missions you already have to unlock all nodes of said planet. 

If anything this is a bit more of a mess for PC players because we had little to no forewarning, you can complete the few nodes you miss in a more relaxed way over time as a console player 🙂

It also gated out many inexperienced players who would have been a bit of a burden, way more than an arbitrary MR lock or some other thing. It makes pugging them way more enjoyable. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Autongnosis

[Bao]

My take on Arbitrations: they're a good set of missions that separates the casual folks, the regular vets, and the scraping by wanna-bes. I'm probably gonna get flak for it, but honestly they're a good way to separate those that just want to get through the mission for the loots with minimal efforts and those that actually know what builds work beyond the standard "meta" a majority of the populace shepherd themselves into. Unlike Eidolon runs where the chances of getting a poorly geared player is a common trend in publics, Arbitration seem to have a much more restrictive or filtration system propagated by it requirements. Ive always told players to clear the star chart, because you never know when you're gonna get an alert that you might need and you don't have access to, therefore you've got to ask or beg for a taxi. Lo and behold, we now have elite alerts. 

 

And the name speaks for itself. Elite alerts shouldn't be accessible to everyone coming right out of the gate. The main issue for a lot of players is the need to be able to rush everything to access the end game stuff and as of late DE has been making a lot of content available earlier and earlier, which not only hurts the later game content but also hurts veterans. Clearing the star chart isn't a monumental task either, but it does require some time and investment to clear through. With the level restriction of a max frame with enemies scaled to a tier 2 sortie right at the beginning, and given no second chances at lives, it challenges players to build optimally and that's mostly achievable (if not mainly) by folks who've invested a lot of time into the game. 

 

Is it a fix-all for the game? Not by any means no. I've already seen people looking for specific squad comps in recruiting and it really doesn't need it if everyone understands the objectives and has an understanding of what the mission entails. It gives vets something to do that isn't mass slaughtering easy mobs, which in turns ruins the experience for new players, while giving new people a goal to reach aside from mindlessly grinding. Can they be cheesed?  Probably. But hey, it does compromise on challenge and decent rewards which have been major complaints for a long time coming now. 

 

Is warframe still a  good free to play game? Absolutely. I'd still say it far outshines some other games where the grinding is 100x more abysmal and boring (looking at the likes of many Asian MMOs out there, FFXIV  included). You are still in control of what weapons you gear with, what frames you take, hell even how you look. Does it have its faulty points? Sure, every game has their own quirks and Warframe is no exception to that.

 

To note: you kind of said it yourself. It's an end-game mode, which means there's gotta be something you have to sacrifice to reach that end-point. I hated completing a lot of the nodes on the map prior to the star chart even having any other effect other than exp, but I still did it because it mattered for progression, whether directly or indirectly by way of affecting future missions. Warframe is also a bit of a completionist game, gotta catch em all sort of deal as well and while most players are content with what they have, it would grind the gears of OCD players to be missing that one node or have a 9/10 Primed Pressure Point. Stuff like that is also what helps keep the game going, not just a constant "what's new and I can just have fun with?" it's better for DE to put in something new that takes time to get to, otherwise they'll face players taking less than a couple of weeks to clear through the new stuff and waiting months for more updates.