Fortuna Will Fail. Here's why.

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

to be honest every thing you have complained about says to me that maybe Warframe never really was the game for you and you have forced yourself into playing it as long as you have.  you complain it going to be too grindy to get the new stuff.  that was one of main features about warframe you had to work to get stuff rather than devs holding you by hand and giving you all nice S#&$ with silver spoon just because you bought thier game.  the only thing it punishes you for mistake is if you forma something before understand pilarity and polarity slots first but thats what makes the game fun its do it your way and if it works for you great there is no 100 percent this is only way your going to doo good.

[Voltage]

I am one of those rare people that like it when extreme grind is added. It keeps me playing longer than a week or two.

I will hold my opinions for release, but I see some very interesting weapon combos coming, more Mastery (26 for me), a new open environment, new dojo pigments, many pages of bug fixes and changes, and the foundation for future content. Saying the mods are bad yet having no access to them is petty. You never know which mods are useful until a situation presents itself where you want it.

Digital Extremes worked quite hard on this update, and I usually expect salty "I think this update is trash" threads to pop up atleast after your launcher installed it. Your mindset and attitude will cause you to look negatively on what is given to you instead of appreciating what was given and giving constructive feedback.

Spider Bots were not shown because maybe, just maybe, DE wants us to learn how they work ourselves. When Trials were added, one of the most fun things (atleast for me) was discovering mechanics and solving the mystery of "how does this work?" I applaud DE for not showing too much and letting us get our hands dirty with this new update.

[notlamprey]

I'm glad you took the time to neg it in a relatively thoughtful manner, honestly.

We need posts like this. That said...

I think you're misunderstanding DE's goals, both for this Fortuna update and for the big picture of Warframe. Though the update might very well be a failure in your eyes, I have a feeling it will accomplish what it needs to in order for the game to remain profitable and popular.

I also think you are way late to the party on some very important and obvious things:

• Warframe can never and will never have an identity, as you have used the term here. Never ever.
• Warframe can never and will never have REAL ENDGAME CONTENT, as you have used the term here. Never ever.
• DE is not "slowly losing touch." Again, to use the terms as you are, DE lost touch a long time ago. The people who want what you want are not the kind of people DE are prioritizing for.

Warframe is not and can never be a "deep" game, in the way you want it to be. It is instead a broad game, and you will have to continually reinvent your idea of challenge in order to remain interested in it.

I'm not saying I disagree with your desires for the game. I am saying that I think your perspective and your wishes for the game are doomed to eternal frustration.

[Obviousclone]

There are so many things you've speculated on where you made a comparison, but the thing your comparing it to, is wrong. It's your opinion and all, but like you must be playing the game terribly if those are the experiences you're basing off of.

 

Zaws are way more forma efficient than you think. I have like 17 zaws and they all use roughly 1 forma to perfect (and most of them are rip offs I made from youtube like "hand of serenity" and "pharaoh fang", you can look those names up on youtube if you want to see exactly what I've built). The only ones that actually have and need 2 forma, are the ones I have rivens for. Also, if Zaws really were a reference point, then you'd realize that kitgun in the picture isn't "gilded" and therefore is missing a bunch of base stats it should have. Also it looks like DE is improving on zaw design and doing things like adding base tier 2 elementals and going above the stock 2x crit multiplier as customization options.

 

It's been established from dev streams that mining uses the exact same mechanisms as it did from the plains, if you have an advanced nosom cutter, then you get a headstart advantage in that. Also the farming itself for plains... that wasn't really bad in any form. The only real bottlenecks to the resource grind that I found were climbing the baits tree to craft the high tier amps, grinding for cetus wisps (which if you did the bounties you'd naturally acquire the amount you need, I went beyond that and built 2 amps for each tier and have like 4 arcane sets crafted) and pyrol (the uncommon tier rock that is used mostly in zaws and annoyingly has a similar droprate to ferros, the uncommon tier rock that is hardly used at all). But the thing about mining though, is when you look at the dev stream showcases, they have no locked caves, so if a rock issue does come up, having to visit one specific lootcave for RNG rock drops probably won't be much of an issue. Also they reworked mining for fortuna.

 

I don't know why exactly you think only those 3 mods out of the set mods are the "only good ones". You could have a 156 second 2x everything from your smeeta using tek enhance;which means you can go another double tier higher (with RNG) if you're trying to get a massive kuva bonus from a siphon (right now the record is like 19k kuva from a single siphon,with this new mod, you could probably go 40k kuva). You could also use the mod to significantly raise the uptime on the adarza crit boost with tek enhance for bossfights. The Mecha set bonus is insane and there's a ton of theory crafting that's going to be done with saryn, pox, gas builds, lanka builds, kohm builds with how it spreads stacked status effects. Synth Charge is a must on low mag size pistols like Knell, Zakti, Twin Rogga and more...

But instead you talk about useless mods like Tek Gravity? How many times have you seen someone use (as in actually care about and focus their build on,) using Exodia hunt? Which is the effect this mod is based on? Yeah, no one really talks or cares about it, no one's going "this arcane is a must for my zaws!", so why would they care about Tek Gravity which is a mod that takes up the spot you could be putting organ shatter in?

Edited November 6, 2018 by Obviousclone

[DrBorris]

2 hours ago, RadiantArin said:

3. The farming will be atrocious. We already know that's going to be a given. Us Veterans don't want to sit down and have to start EVERYTHING OVER AGAIN with Fortuna. Given how immense and polarized the farming was for PoE, the farming for Fortuna will likely be three times worse.

Wait... this is a bad thing? So what you're saying is you want less things to do? You want less 'content' in your content?

And I am not sure if you touched the Plains recently, but the 'grind' there is actually quite well tuned.

[Voltage]

4 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Wait... this is a bad thing? So what you're saying is you want less things to do? You want less 'content' in your content?

And I am not sure if you touched the Plains recently, but the 'grind' there is actually quite well tuned.

Also, don't forget: whenever DE uses existing resources, veterans will burn the content way faster. With PoE (and now Fortuna), having everyone start at square one is the most logical choice to introduce a new open world.

I would not like Plains at all if I ended up not needing to farm anything due to previously invested hours.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Voltage

[(PSN)Kamranos]

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

You weren't around for Raids huh? Raids launched from Earth, an early planet and contained harder content. And yet new playera were easily able to skip this and continue through to the next planet, avoiding that difficulty spike. Why can't Fortuna do the same? Because new players feel they should be able to access everything right away, that's why and no other reason.

I was around for raids and played them. They were not a normal part of planetary progression and not readily accessible to new players. It’s apples to oranges, honestly. New players should have to work to get to higher content, but if that content is part of standard progression, it shouldn’t require riven mods, 5 forma’d everything and a squad completely dedicated towards beating one boss. That is no fun and not worth the work for many players. I know a bunch of people that simply skip Eidolon hunting due to the amp and focus needs. When something requires that much work, you alienate a large section of other people. A game should not gear mainline content directly towards high challenge seeking veterans.

Try to think from the business side, many high mastery veterans already have everything, done everything and can farm everything therefore are less likely to purchase platinum in whatever form. Yes there will always be those like me, who buy PA even at MR25 because 1. Expendable income 2. Support the devs 3. Don’t have the time to farm everything. But in general, newer players spend more money. First rule of business is to keep the guys who pay the bills happy, meaning primary customers. New players keep the lights at DE on, so yeah they will likely want to make them happy.

To be fair, I read you last sentence in the voice of a moody preteen who wasn’t getting their way. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by (PS4)Kamranos

[Mavor]

"Fortuna will fail. Here's why. Because I speculated on several things and that's it."

[-CdG-Zilchy]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

I was around for raids and played them. They were not a normal part of planetary progression and not readily accessible to new players. It’s apples to oranges, honestly. New players should have to work to get to higher content, but if that content is part of standard progression, it shouldn’t require riven mods, 5 forma’d everything and a squad completely dedicated towards beating one boss. That is no fun and not worth the work for many players. I know a bunch of people that simply skip Eidolon hunting due to the amp and focus needs. When something requires that much work, you alienate a large section of other people. A game should not gear mainline content directly towards high challenge seeking veterans.

Try to think from the business side, many high mastery veterans already have everything, done everything and can farm everything therefore are less likely to purchase platinum in whatever form. Yes there will always be those like me, who buy PA even at MR25 because 1. Expendable income 2. Support the devs 3. Don’t have the time to farm everything. But in general, newer players spend more money. First rule of business is to keep the guys who pay the bills happy, meaning primary customers. New players keep the lights at DE on, so yeah they will likely want to make them happy.

To be fair, I read you last sentence in the voice of a moody preteen who wasn’t getting their way. 

Oh I understand the business side sadly but I would love to see just for once, some content that's not readily accessible to someone 1 week into the game. The classic exanple is MR 1 players with MK 1 paris and NO AMP or a Mote (which is the same thing) strolling into a tridolon hunt and expecting to be carried. That kind of content needs to be walled off regardless of if they'd make more money catering it to newbies. I'd be very happy if Fortuna access required finishing the Glast gambit and a 10 million credit donation. That's not much to work towards and keeps the really fresh newbies out and gives them something to aim for.

And just to clarify, most new players spend their parents credit card not THEIR money 😉

Edited November 6, 2018 by Zilchy

[_xci_]

So much speculation and not a single fact. Stay classy, forum.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

You’re a good person, here’s why:

 

 

Oh there are no reasons.

[MiMiren]

Self-sabotage is strong with this one.

[Falconer777]

5 часов назад, chuckdm сказал:

7) Perhaps the only point you made that I'll ever agree with, but to be clear I haven't seen Garuda.  That said, Revenant seems too much like Nekros, Gara was too much like Frost, etc.  In fact, in 4 years of play, Revenant is the first frame I just straight up ignored.  I'm already MR22 and I just took a look at him and said "nope."  In retrospect, I wish I had done the same with Gara because I sold her a month ago when I realized I had used her exactly once since I finished her 3rd forma.  DE has been hitting a mental wall on new frame ideas for a while now, or rather, on new ability ideas.  Frankly, I wish DE would just say "no new frames for a year" and literally retrain the entire team that handles those onto something else, like new enemy types or something. 

Well noticed, I completely agree. 

In my opinion, we have an oversupply of murder weapons, but we have some shortage of targets for murder. 

As for Fortune - I see no reason to guess.
She will be out soon - we will play, we will see, then we will draw conclusions.

[SenorClipClop]

6 hours ago, RadiantArin said:

I mean REAL ENDGAME CONTENT.

I see this so often. What the Hek do you mean by endgame content when you poo-poo Arbitrations for being a cyclical system just like all other elements of Warframe? Warframe is a continuous-content game that thrives on doing the same missions with variations. If you played each level just once, you could probably do the whole game in a few weeks. When you ask for "real endgame content", it just sounds to me like you're looking for a definitive in-game cue to stop playing it, put it down and call it completed. I don't know if you've caught on, but DE doesn't seem finished making Warframe.

If you have an idea about what "real endgame content" could possibly be, please give us an example.

 

EDIT: Also, props for the clickbait "this Will Fail" title, and then having all your points defending that claim contain "if", "might", "maybe", "could be" or a speculation based on absolutely zero evidence. Stay in school, kiddo.

Edited November 6, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

I wish the OP had spoken up earlier, he could have stopped the devs wasting a year of their time.

[Zi-Sui]

That kitgun on OP's post had 3.3 fire rate and 1.3 reload speed. I remember Aklex Prime having quite a bit slower fire rate, and definitely slower reload speed, much slower. And you got radiation damage there, meaning you can go radiation + corrosive or if the spider has alloy armor, pure radiation. All pretty good advantages in my book. I really doubt DE wants their new shiny kitguns be useless so we're probably gonna see some strong ones.

Just wait until it's here before making judgements, not long now.

[Zi-Sui]

3 hours ago, Zilchy said:

And just to clarify, most new players spend their parents credit card not THEIR money 

Source? From what I've seen in my clan, most people use their own money, me among them.

[RaDi04cTiV3]

Just Speculation No Facts. 

[Guest]

Veterans are largely irrelevant as a monetizable audience, newcomers are far more likely to spend money on the game.

Sorry to burst your bubble but that's just how it is.

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

7 hours ago, RadiantArin said:

So before you jump on me for the title of the thread, I just want to state that this is all my personal opinion. I would very much like for the Fortuna update to succeed and bring in more players, but that's only from the standpoint of the new player. The standpoint from the veteran side of me has some personal qualms about how all of this is being handled. And I want to start with a couple of reasons why Fortuna won't keep the interest of the veterans, who have been begging for new content for over a year now.

1. We were not given any glimpse of any of the Spider bot bosses in Fortuna. We got a very small sneak peek during one of the dev-streams/Prime Times where Reb fought a Spider Bot Boss that was about Level 500 or something like that. If the Spider Bot bosses end up just being shallow Level 50 bosses much like Eidolons are, then there really isn't any point in chasing after the content because we'll just steam roll it anyway. To me, this was the most interesting part of Fortuna and for it to be neutered like this is going to be a painful blow to deal with.

2. There is no challenge with Fortuna. This kind of ties in with Point #1. If the Spider Bot enemies are going to be capped at Level 50 or some low level that isn't going to give veteran players a proper challenge, there's no point in playing Fortuna. All the enemies that were shown off in Fortuna are Level 20 Corpus trash fodder enemies that can be killed with a literal stick. Again, to the new player side, that's fine. But for us veterans, there isn't going to be much of a challenge there. We would just rather do Arbitrations because those actually present a challenge to us. An artificial difficulty challenge, but it's still challenging than Sorties.

3. The farming will be atrocious. We already know that's going to be a given. Us Veterans don't want to sit down and have to start EVERYTHING OVER AGAIN with Fortuna. Given how immense and polarized the farming was for PoE, the farming for Fortuna will likely be three times worse.

4. Kitguns are bad. The bread and butter, the creme of the crop, the most hyped up aspect of Fortuna that EVERYONE was jumping on the bandwagon for......is terrible. 

If this image is anything to look at from what was posted on the official website, these gun stats are absolute garbage. This chamber says that the gun will do 58 damage with 22% Critical Chance and 2.3x Multiplier. You know what has better stats? A REGULAR #*!%ING LEX. THAT YOU CAN BUY FOR 50K CREDITS. THAT DEALS ALMOST THREE TIMES THE DAMAGE. To add fuel to the fire, let's say this particular chamber needs 10k Credits, some Rubedo, some Fortuna Material, and Fortuna Gems for example (this is a complete hypothetical situation). It would just be more convenient to buy a straight upgrade for 50k Credits that can literally carry you through the game instead of having to waste time and resources crafting these.

Speaking of time and money, if Zaws are anything to go by, Kitguns will be extremely expensive to Forma if you're crazy for some reason and want to upgrade these things. The best Crit build for Secondaries is 5 Forma and the best Status Builds are 2-3 Forma. The reason Zaws aren't THAT Forma intensive is because you can put on Stances to increase Capacity. No such luck with Primaries and Secondaries, meaning you'll be sinking more Forma into a gun that's not even going to be able to kill Level 50s efficiently. No veteran wants that and I don't even think a newer player wants that.

5. The size of the map will deter newcomers away. Bigger isn't always better. If the map is convoluted or confusing to get around in, especially on foot, when newer players don't have access to Archwing Launchers or K-Drives, they're going to get frustrated and not play anymore. Plus, there are a number of issues that STILL TO THIS DAY haven't been solved regarding PoE's quality of optimization. Yes, the map is big, but there are people still even on Steam that can't even access PoE because they can't get past the door. Forgive me if I seem a little rude here but that is bullS#&$. I had to build my rig specifically so that I could run PoE and thank goodness I did, because I am actually sorry for all those people that can't experience Eidolon fights and can't grind the required materials needed to make the end game gear from PoE.

6. The set mods are garbage. With the exception of Tek Gravity and Mecha Pulse, and MAYBE Tek Collateral for some meme-y builds, absolutely none of these Mods are going to be used. 

7. Garuda is extremely underwhelming. Garuda looks like a combination of a clunky Volt, Valkyr, Nyx, and Revenant. Garuda is too many frames trying to be one frame. Her entire idea needs to be scrapped and rethought of, especially if her release is coming with Fortuna. Newer players and even some veterans are going to see Garuda, see how clunky she is, use her for MR fodder, and never use her again. At least Revenant and Khora are decent and Gara is good, but Garuda is extremely bland and boring, with a hodgepodge of ideas tacked onto a single frame. Her weapons look cool though, so props.

 

Again, this is just one person speaking their own thoughts but personally I really don't think Fortuna is going to be that great. Warframe still doesn't have the identity it sorely needs. It doesn't have endgame CONTENT. And I'm not talking about Arbitrations where it's the same recycled mission type over and over again. I mean REAL ENDGAME CONTENT.

 

It feels like to me DE is slowly losing touch with the playerbase with what we really want, which is new content for endgame players. Not the same mistakes from PoE.

You are saying 'definites' like; 'Kitguns are terrible' etc.

How do you know this? Have you played it, or seen the full content.

 

Just another person using negativity for clickbait. 

[White_Matter]

Of course it will, but it will provide us with 2 - 3 months of content. 

The problem lies within the games core. It has no end game. It has no challenge after a certain point and not enough incentive to take the challenge if you think there is one. 

Not enough variety between mission types, not enough variety between warfames and weapons. Most of the content in the game is purely cosmetic. Like you remove 80% of the weapons and frames in the game and nothing changes. 

Game needs a complete overhaul and I'm pretty sure even the devs know it, but they also know it is a hard thing to do. So they are taking the safe route and building on something mediocre rather than taking the risk and fixing the mediocrity. Which I guess is understandable from a business standpoint. 

[kotex073]

Please can you tell me the lottery numbers of next weekend, thanks.

[SeriousNinjaBug]

unFORTUNAtely  he has some very good points...  i was super cringe reading this but if you sit back and think about it... he's 100% spot on.

kit guns... i don't know how long you have been playing but vets can pretty much work out builds in their heads... and this specific combo of kit gun is complete garbo.

there needs to be something challenging and exciting for the veterans...

we had a taste of that with LOR and JV.

not another re-hashed defense mission like ESO and Arb

 

[AnonumusSoldier]

6 hours ago, chuckdm said:

 

 That said, Revenant seems too much like Nekros, Gara was too much like Frost, etc.  In fact, in 4 years of play, Revenant is the first frame I just straight up ignored.  I'm already MR22 and I just took a look at him and said "nope."  In retrospect, I wish I had done the same with Gara because I sold her a month ago when I realized I had used her exactly once since I finished her 3rd forma. 

I would highly recommend you rethink that position, Revenant is nothing like Nekros, he is a DPS tank, not a necromancer as advertised. I would also recommend you relook at Gara. Since her rework she is extremly useful, especially in arbitration. I re looked at her after Tac Potatoes recent vid on her and ended up dumping 3 more forma into her because i was enjoying playing her and buying a riven for Prisma Cleavers to pair with her glass sword.

[FlusteredFerret]

7 hours ago, Littleman88 said:

Anytime someone in this community brings up the term, I seriously have to say, "define 'challenge.'"

I'd say they're usually talking about something that veteran players with all the frames and all the weapons will find difficult to kill.

Unfortunately these people don't seem to grasp the idea that most content has to be accessible to most of the player base. DE are NEVER going to create an entire open world environment, or any regular content, that cannot be played even by newbies.

Eidolon hunts can't be done by newbies...but that doesn't mean they can't explore the plains at night. I'm guessing the thinking was the same for the big Spider Bots. All that happens is you sometimes get new players dragged into stuff they can't handle. Will the Spider Bots only come out at night, like Eidolons, or will they be found any time of day?

This whole "endgame content" issue is something for a separate topic...though lord knows its been discussed many times. However, Orb Vallis was not designed to be endgame content, so OP's issue on that score is invalid.