Nyx rework 1.5 (More to Psychic themed)

[XenMaster]

57 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

i've often suggested the idea of minions getting 50% of the effects of nyx's weapons depending on the weapon the minion has

You know, players can brainstorm ideas but some good overhaul were left out.

 

It couldve been good secondary Specter ally for Nyx but this rework hurts Nyx mains.

[CyberPrimate]

Most problems stem from enemy scaling.

Passive : Reduced accuracy wont help you much with high levels if you're 2-3 bullets away from being downed. But whatever, its a passive and by far no the worst one we got.

1st : Their damage doesnt scale as much as their EHP. So you can pump all the damage u can manage into the mind controlled victim, it wont do anything. Maybe 10 000% damage bonus would be worthwhile. Once you mind control them they go into this OMG MIGRAINE movement animation and cover their heads, so you cant land headshots, but not that it matters, as the damage would still be negligible anyway. Maybe to give her some kit synergy if her mind controlled unit kills an enemy affected by bolts or chaos to refresh the duration OR add a percentage of their total health to the damage boost. Cause why not? I mean, if nothing is changed and the mind contrlled enemy will do barely any damage, might as well give them a proper boost if they somehow manage to kill an enemy. So mind control duration reset, or % of killed enemies health added to damage boost.

2. Actually great for scaling. Remove 100% armor? Yes please. But the fact that its random targets is kinda meh... Make it a targetable AoE circle OR to keep the name of the ability, might make it shoot out 6 bolts in an angle with punchthrough. Think Artemis Bow from distance (only bigger angle and "fatter projectiles"), or Garudas 4, something like that. Something that might give us some control on who it affects. Maybe make the punchthrough scale from strength? As an alternative to the usual range chaos build.

3. Dont touch it. 

4. SAME issue as with her 1. Enemy damage DOES NOT scale proportional to their EHP. Whatever u absorb is not going to do anything at all. Its just a panic button + short CC from blast. Let it do something more. Maybe a lasting blind from the blast? Fear? Confusion? Just needs something useful to happen after detonation. Maybe another attempt at synergy - enemies affected by her psychic bolts or chaos  would insta die when in radius of absorb detonation. Or give her armor based on enemies affected by detonation? I dont know.. just something.

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by CyberPrimate

[Kasamoto]

Rebecca answered in the second or third post or so - i hope they will look up more then just her ultimate seeing as her whole kit is just as lacking as before rework 

Here is hope it’s not some small percentage number upping and it’s not all on Rebecca’s shoulders alone 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Kasamoto

[XenMaster]

9 hours ago, HellVOps said:

 

Her 1st: As been noted wanky AI and the damage they do to each other is not enough

 

2nd: I consider this an improvement, its basically a nerf ability to armor/shields that even a half moded weapon can do good dmg up to lvl100(tested with viper wraith), granted some very good weapons are already handling lvl100 just fine, this is just a bonus.

3rd:.....Same old "YourMINDisMINE" now shot each other.

4th: Barly notices any difference, maybe because I use the augment for it as a panic button.   

Sounds: I guess there is an improvement but its just so minor....

Passive: Barly notice it, would be nice to actually know the % chance to miss her and if it stacks with mods  like Agility Drift

Endnote: She needs more tweaks and changes, her kit is all over the place.

 

Could not sleep with out posting this.

Ways to improve/tweak

1st:Add to the mind controlled enemey an 10m aggro zone(moddable) and better stats(the enemies see you taking control of their teammate and amp him up and they dont like it,the more you amp the  stronger the aggro)

2nd: It needs some of the treatment oberon 1st been thro,namly base dmg + flat %hp.

3rd:Nyx old passive(random disarm after using abilites on them) should come back just for this skill, as a minor after effect.

4th: No clue on how to approch this one.....

Chaos should leave at is. Let Psychic Bolts spammable instead holding down key to recast.

 

Absorb should have better range by 20m at max rank. Absorbing damage increase absorb damage as multiplier.

 

Also allow Absorb to proc status by 100% for each elemental/physical dmg absorb.

[ArcKnight9202]

4 hours ago, CyberPrimate said:

Passive : Reduced accuracy wont help you much with high levels if you're 2-3 bullets away from being downed. But whatever, its a passive and by far no the worst one we got.

As someone who has actually used EMP Aura(in solo ESO with Saryn), I can tell you that it's just about useless. You cannot really discern if it helps because you get ripped to shreds the moment you stop moving. The only reason I don't use something else is because you end up taking so much damage at once that Rejuvenation is a waste and I don't bother to forma auras.

I actually believe she is worse than pre-tweak. Despite not being a damage frame, Nyx was extremely strong in solo and could do almost any mission without any trouble. I would definitely love to have a rollback.

Also, I know a lot of people want synergies but I'd rather not have them just for the sake of having them. Nyx didn't really need any before and she was my favorite frame. Even counting that cruddy Absorb skill. If they could be worked in creatively and not dependent on other skills, that would be awesome, though.

[N2h2]

I'm on nearly same level on though about the fact she was  better befor the rework on some aspect.

If I could bring some suggestion and push some others already made I would say, regarding high level NPC (lvl 80+ at very least):

/Her 2 is kinda ok, giving it punch through would be maybe a little bit overkill, because it's the main reason that make lvl 100+ npc what they are. If you have ability to remove instantly aromor on everything, it would go from a descent  skill to completely OP. On the other hand, I think a better way to target your opponent would be nice instead of this random shot. And at same time it would make more sense to the fact you cannot instantly recast. Like a trade, you chose the opponent you'll debuff and you'll do it for sure, but choose wisely as you won't be able to spam.

Or the opposit, keep it random targeting but make it spammable (omg this would be soo bad, why did i said that, no really don't do that)

/Her 1: indeed damage scaling is disapointing. It's a single target skill so you know you won't get insane damages out of it. but the fact the enemy targeted got "stuck / disoriented" for a while is already diminishing potential damage, then the controlled enemy is more just dancing around and not doing anything than attacking. That turn it in a potential target but it won't help regarding DPS. Maybe giving him a more agressive behavior would help a bit on that skill.

/Her 3, well I can't tell on that, I'm used to it and took the habit to "spam" it just to "mass stun" everything in order to defend an operative or to prevent my team being shredded when a door is opening with dozen of enemies behind. I like the way it was befor rewoek because I mostly used it as a mass stun tool. For me It feel ok like it is, but I have the feeling it's really personal opinion and some other player may be disapointed of it.

/Her 4: Still super weak. Du to the lack of damage scaling. OFC it's blowing every low lvl NPC (almost like everything in WF) but it's still just a panic button to push in emergency case. Don't expect damage out of it. IMO, for several reason.
First as it has already been told. there is no scaling on it, and clearly a high lvl heavy armored NPC won't care about 10k output damage, when he will mitigate 99.9% of it.

Then because clearly without augment mod, this skill is pointless. npc won't come at you just to take damage. Actual AI behavior make melee NPC trying to attack you, but ranged NPC will just shoot out of this skill range and take cover far from it.

Last, using augment mod tottaly kill the use of output damage. as you range fall under 10 m if you don't put everything on range. Which will remove all duration on other skills and all the potentil strenght on eveything. If you do so, you turn Nyx in a fram that have only this skill to use, because she want soo much to be that invincible and kill everything Valkyr..

An improvment would be range increased by a lot (*put anything you want here, regarding most of other frame range, even 200% seems underwhelming IMO), also give it more damage scaling OR some more utility (give it a bleed? a poison DOT? a disarm effect on "when hit by wave of explosion" [this would be awesome but i see here coming loki fan's telling we killed loki 🙂 ) or some slow in move speed that would be scaled in duration or % of slow on absorbed damages?] Or maybe somthing that would help Nyx being loved by her team? like boosting a bit damage or defence of allies in the explosion range? (omg, i started dreaming on a nyx that would be loved by her mate and become super usefull for her team...)
To sum it up actually the only point of using that skill is "Panic button" and for experimented player that would occur once every 30 min  or, for new nyx player, as i saw a lot it's used as "use augment mod, stay invincible doing nothing for the whole mission while your mates are "strugguling"... well disapointing for an ULTIMATE that will not be used by "nyx vet" and that will lead new users to take very bad habbits  (just seeing how rhino is actually played is a good exemple of how everybody actually just care about being unkillable even if it's at the cost of being usless for the rest of the team).

Please, I have faith in you, give nyx some love...

[Sailears]

Only been playing warframe for four months or so but consider myself a Nyx main and tbh I'm feeling a bit flat after this "rework". Being brief:

Things I do like:

+ casting mind control while moving

+ psychic bolts being a debuff

+ sound effect for chaos is better

 

Things I don't like:

- holding 2 to "release" psychic bolts. This is awful and I really hope it gets changed asap to be immediately recastable. Holding the button to release targets and then pressing again to cast again is so unbelievable clunky in the flow of combat. I honestly hate this mechanic and it's single handedly putting me off playing Nyx right now.

- absorb being an uninteractive skill without assimilate that also kind of contradicts the new passive. Would at least love some active component to be able to do something while the bubble is up, even something like hovering a cursor over enemies to direct them to attack and walk toward you. Though ideally it would be nice to see something different that synergises better with every other skill and the new passive which thematically suggest doing everything to avoid getting hit.

- sound effect for psychic bolts has too much grating/rasping. Uncomfortable to listen to. Would prefer something smoother, or revert to previous sound effect.

 

Things I'm indifferent to:

/ the passive is, meh... I like the concept, thematically about being more difficult to target, but in practice a lot of the time I can't even notice if it's working against higher level enemies.

/ mind control as a skill is still meh... great to power up the target but there's not much payoff for the effort. Complexity is good to keep interest, but the effect should be more impactful in gameplay. At least would like to see the target prioritise psychic bolts debuffed targets.

/ psychic bolts random target selection... sure you can have limited control over what gets hit by aiming in a certain direction, but then it's a case of looking at the health bars for which targets actually got debuffed. Needs a clearer visual indicator and also could do with the target limit being increased to 8 at the minimum. Though would prefer something like a "psychic wave" - conical aoe blast that radiates outward debuffing everything in its path, or similar.

 

Edit - bottom line and the worst part is I don't feel like playing after this rework, which is kind of strange. Hoping some of these things are addressed - particularly the hold to release psychic bolts.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Sailears

[-QUILL_PETER-]

On 2018-12-19 at 4:51 AM, ArcKnight9202 said:

Absorb was always pretty bad. Now it actually shoots back the damage the enemies better resist. Amusing

Quoting for visibility.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

I’m pushing for Absorb to have the augmented movement of Assimilate and for Assimilate to further increase movement up to 75% even if it costs more energy.

Current Warframe is about movement, squad integrity and weapon use in conjunction with Warframe abilities.

Old Absorb doesn’t allow for weapon use or movement.  It’s antiquated.

[Learicorn]

Mind control damage buff is working fine to me, not sure what y'all are talking about

I like the rework i just don't like the sounds, they're too loud and get annoying real quick since i use them many times in a mission

[Chaemyerelis]

What if you could give your mind controlled unit your secondary weapon like a rescue target? 😛 

[GuiltBlade]

It realy feels like Nyx was designed for a different game. Out of all her kit, only Chaos fits easily into the gameplay of Warframe with everything else either being designed for small numbers of enemies or much lower level encounters.

Hopefully one day they'll give her a real rework instead of a tweak, but I don't think she's got the popularity to get DE's serious attention while they keep churning out new frames that need constant re-balancing. It's a pitty, second Prime I built and without a doubt my favourite, but I would like to play the game without feeling I'm missing out.

[BDMblue]

I don’t know why the ai is still so bad. We got Rev like 3 months ago.... remove follow and just make them attack we don’t need anything following us.

[Keltik0ne]

The rework was pretty lazy, not really helping Nyx with any of her issues.

She is as useless a frame as any cc frame would be in a game with so many great damagers and debuffers.

Brings nothing to a group that a variety of frames can do better, and they can bring more.

[DishSoap]

On 2018-12-19 at 3:10 PM, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Vauban and quality have no business belonging in the same post

We're talking about that QUALITY. Not quality.

[kgabor]

9 hours ago, Keltik0ne said:

The rework was pretty lazy, not really helping Nyx with any of her issues.

She is as useless a frame as any cc frame would be in a game with so many great damagers and debuffers.

Brings nothing to a group that a variety of frames can do better, and they can bring more.

If you compare it to straight up overpowered no effort free win cheese, like Maim Equinox, Mesa or Octavia, then sure.

But if you ever brought (pre rework)Nyx to a Sortie, you would know where the frames utility lies, its kit is for survival, by putting a little effort, you can make Mot any level a snoozefest for your team with Chaos, invulnerability with augmented Absorb, disarms with Psychic Bolts and more.

Doing a sortie bossfight like Sargas Ruk or Kela?

Wide range Chaos helps your team by keeping trash mobs occupied and you can ignore any damage boss nuke abilities do without breaking momentum while switching to operators so if you time it right, you can keep shooting like nothing happened.

Mobile Defenses are easy, but with Nyx Chaos you can do Mobile Defenses while literally sleeping. (tried it)

 

[NyreenKandros]

Bad.

I played as Nyx most of the time and after the update, it feels not right.

As other people mentioned above, this "reworked" 2 is got bad.

I've used 2 for tracking enemies before I jump into mobs, or break cameras behind walls or sort of, and the worst is I can't recast it as much as I can!

And yet, the Chaos skill is "STILL" broken after the Chroma prime update. If I recast Chaos, previously affected effects do not preserve. (Which was preserved before the Chroma Prime updates)

[Howtoshootgun]

Worried.

New passive is the worst offender. What used to be a more or less on demand disarm (with some spamming) is now a tiny barely noticeable miss chance. Before that Napalm lost his gun and had to pull out his weako sheev trying to feebly attack. Now he can keep blasting away at me, the team or the objective just fine. I really dont get it. How the eff is this better. How. What. How. Why. Even something like 50% miss chance is worse than an enemy straight not having his gun. What am i missing here, please explain

1 and 2 rework are interesting, at least not as baffling as the new passive. Other people prolly have better suggestions than me on those

Chaos still as is, thank god. Chaosed enemies still suck at killing each other, nothing new, not the point, its CC.

Absorb is still poop for damage, like always. Never mattered to me, the invuln is what counts.

Nyx is a CC frame but in this very thread people are saying "Nyx doesnt do damage, therefore sucks". So much feedback boiling down to "Moar damages!1!" in general. Unless you completely change the kit Nyx wont be able to explode a room like Mesa or Saryn therefore you wont convert those players to playing Nyx with these half-baked changes, all youll do is alienating the remaining Nyx mains.

Trying to keep older frames fresh is commendable, but (sorry to be a memelord) i didnt ask for this.

Think i made like 3 rageposts like this in different places, time to step back, nothing will happen over the holidays anyway. Merry Christmas everyone

 

[Ikyr0]

by the looks of things, DE again released the changes without any actual testing? why do they keep doing this?

[Sloan441]

On ‎2018‎-‎12‎-‎19 at 2:07 AM, XenMaster said:

I feel upset about this one....

Change is always hard.

Nyx was...comfortable, but also in a years-long rut. It's disturbing to have the status quo change, but the changes are a net positive. 

There are a more than a few threads over in the Warframe Feedback forum about Nyx and her changes. This will probably find itself there before too long...

However, in short, the changes are decent, but not enough and not done well enough. The basics are there for the most part. They need tweaking. The only real problem--and it is a problem--is Absorb. H3adshot's initial review really articulated something I've been feeling, but couldn't really put into words: Nyx players only use it for the invulnerability, not its other features, which should be significant, but at present aren't. It needs more work both in how it does damage, how it informs the player what it's doing, and in what it costs the player to use it. 

Then there's the passive. It seems to be non-functional, or functioning at such a low level (like 10% avoidance) as to be meaningless. This either needs to work, be buffed a lot, or reverted. 

Otherwise, things are looking better for Nyx, but she still needs a good deal of tuning. 

[Keltik0ne]

16 hours ago, kgabor said:

If you compare it to straight up overpowered no effort free win cheese, like Maim Equinox, Mesa or Octavia, then sure.

But if you ever brought (pre rework)Nyx to a Sortie, you would know where the frames utility lies, its kit is for survival, by putting a little effort, you can make Mot any level a snoozefest for your team with Chaos, invulnerability with augmented Absorb, disarms with Psychic Bolts and more.

Doing a sortie bossfight like Sargas Ruk or Kela?

Wide range Chaos helps your team by keeping trash mobs occupied and you can ignore any damage boss nuke abilities do without breaking momentum while switching to operators so if you time it right, you can keep shooting like nothing happened.

Mobile Defenses are easy, but with Nyx Chaos you can do Mobile Defenses while literally sleeping. (tried it)

 

I actually ran some arbitrations, comparing her utility/cc to IDLoki, Slowva and Baruuk. It was far easiest and most effective on the Loki, with Baruuk being a decent alternative and Nova being decent CC (but best dps booster).

Nyx is not in a great place right now, as I said, she brings nothing that can't be easily lived without. 

If you like the place she's in, good for you.

[Marvelous_A]

They should just forget about the damage. Making enemies fire on each other will never do anything with our current scaling. MC should control 1 enemy and increase its threat level to maximum so the enemies with focus on it and leave Nyx and her teammates alone, and it's done.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[N2h2]

Problem is what are we talking about? fighting lvl 20 npc or trying to go on high lvl endurance runs?

Because everything is fine for doing 10 waves on hydron, absolutely everything even a rank 0 frame without any mod can do the job.

OFC nyx isn't the kind of frame about massive damage.
But on the other side just thinking about control is still making her skill bad. As I already told, I find her 3 decent, massive control, and at the secrifice of power and duration can extend to a really wide area. but then, what about her 1 if we just speaking about control and not damage (or somthing else)?

Basically thinking this skill is good for control is imo wrong, it's like her 3, but the flawed version which can control only 1 NPC instead of dozen, that prevent you to affect it with any status and prevent some important damage mechanics (like breaking a nox helmet). so it's like her 3 on discount with a huge ammount of downside.

So either you saw the frame as only a massive control hero, and her 1 is totally usless at the point using it instead of spamming 3 is just a wast of energy, or you see it as a frame that can turn ennemies into an ally for a short period, and her 1 need definitively a really huge damage buff, or the range of her 3 needs a huge buff.

Issue is getting duration, decent amount of range and bit of damage at same time. If you think about low lvl mission everything is OK. As soon as you're aiming at anything more tricky as long endurance survival, you simply realize the frame is far from being good enought to be chosen instead of almost everything else.
Because she don't have evade system, no damage mitigation, no damage buff. only that invincible bubble that totally turn it in a non moving rock, or if you use the augment decrease the range soo much it make it a selfish emergency tool.

build her on strengh: bad range, low duration, only usefull for her 2.
build here on duration: become that selfish invincible frame that will only be able to watch her friends dying.
Build her on range; you got a massive control, for a really short duration, but her 1,2 and 4 lack of use.
Try to get a jack of all trade and you obtain nothing usfull for yourself or your team.

Rework was needed. Somes improvment were made, but overall rework is underwhelming and actually don't bring this frame in the mid tier. Globally, th more I play this new nyx, the more i feel it was better befor the rework, except for her 2.

[XenMaster]

3 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

They should just forget about the damage. Making enemies fire on each other will never do anything with our current scaling. MC should control 1 enemy and increase its threat level to maximum so the enemies with focus on it and leave Nyx and her teammates alone, and it's done.

Not enough though, passive need changes, 2nd need to be spammable against armor and shield factions, 3rd need to reset duration on current affect enemies, 4th should get reworked into more defensive play for team.

[XenMaster]

 

Assert Dominance (passive)

 

The more enemies affected by her abilities, the stronger the nyx's abilities. Each enemy affected or debuffed increase the meter by 10.

 

Mind Control

 

a. Increase threat level higher than mission objectives and Nyx's.

 

b. Mind Control target gain boost damage depending on Assert Dominance meter. For example 10 point =  50% bonus damage

 

My idea :

 

c. Mind control gain stats and elemental damage depending on Nyx's current equipped weapon mods. (Allow them to proc corrosive status build to deal better damage to specific faction)

 

Nemesis Bolts (Psychic Bolts)

 

a. Increase threat level higher than mission objectives and Nyx's.

 

b. Increase affected target damage taken by 50% and reduce their damage output by 90%.

 

c. Mind Control and Chaos targets now forced to attack the affected nemesis bolts target.

 

d. Similar to Enthrall + Molecular Prime, Nemesis target will explode upon death with base damage + bonus damage from Assert Dominance.

 

Chaos

 

Leave as it is.

 

Absorb

 

a. Absorb deal more bonus damage depending on Assert Dominance meter.

 

b. Upon explosion, Nyx and allies gain 50% bonus damage for 10 seconds.

 

My idea :

 

c. Base range increased from 10m to 20m

 

d. Absorb can gain elemental and proc status from Nyx's current equipped weapon mod.

 

Absorb base stat

i. base status chance : 50%

ii. base critical chance : 50%

iii. base critical multiplier : 2.0

iv. base magnetic damage : 500

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by XenMaster
New ideas