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Nightwave: Series 1


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2 hours ago, PR0JAX said:

Umbra forma and new armor?  Woo!

Loving the update so far.  Even though the rewards/difficulty weren't the best, I'm really going to miss the old alerts.  I know you're trying to avoid the whole 'FOMO' thing, but a little credit boost or something like nitain is a good incentive to visit lower level areas again.

Why not have both?  Seems like they could work really well together with some tweaks.

EDIT: After thinking about it for a bit, the 'missing out' thing doesn't make any sense.  These rewards and this new currency are still time-limited and only unlocked sequentially with the threat of all your progress disappearing, so what exactly is gained by removing alerts?  If anything, this requires more of a time commitment than before.

The new system has potential, but IMO a good balance of short-term daily/hourly console alerts combined with weekly/monthly challenges from Nora would be preferable.

EDIT2: The more I play it, the less I like it.  I know the alert rewards weren't great and the Lotus' reminders could get annoying, but now it just feels emptier.  They need fixing, not removal.

EDIT3:  ... WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?

Ha, this was my exact reaction as well.  First time I saw the new system in game I was excited.  Checked a couple of the chores off the list and started thinking this is not any more convenient.  Looked at the requirements after another mission and it finally dawned on me that this is a very shallow attempt to pull the wool over our eyes.  They added frame and weapon slots, so you are no longer forced to purchase them.  But really all it does is cut 30-40% of the slot purchases, while at the same time making potatoes extremely rare in comparison, thus meaning the number of potatoes bought with plat will skyrocket.

This is the first time I've looked at Warframe and been truly disappointed with its monetization.  I knew it wouldn't last forever and that it was too good to be true.  Sadly this looks like the first major step towards the mobile definition of "free-to-play".  I hope I'm wrong and they reintroduce alerts alongside it, with some balancing changes as well.  Really don't want to quit now, but I'm really not liking what I'm seeing

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As a casual player who does his own thing in warframe this is my opinion:

1.) I wanted to get a few more nitain extracts, but it seems that getting enough wolf credits for the 5 pack is going to take way longer than previously.

2.) I suggest having enemies on certain endless mission nodes drop wolf cred rarely. About the same as argon crystal/orokin cell drop.

3.) Take the good parts of the previous alert system, namely, the missions that are randomized and "bite-sized" then implement those in a daily/hourly/every 12 hours rotation. These will have 3-4 missions, be repeatable and have a limit syndicate score per day.

4.) As the others have said, some challenges are way too tedious compared to the previous alert system. I suggest a cleaning up of the challenges here.

5.) Encourage team play instead of discouraging it by making the kill requirements map wide, and remove the gimmicky "sortie with a bud". 

6.) I really like the idea behind this system, and with some adjustments it can become better than the previous one we had.

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My initial feedback / impressions:

I think DE should decouple the Wolf Credits aspect of Nightwave altogether.

Nightwave should be it's own thing... A "Season" Type event with weekly bounties you complete and that awards cool exclusive loot during the season. Ideally bounties should be made broader in definition instead of restrictive in terms of gamemodes (GIve me tasks that are open so I can do them where I please, don't force me to repeat the same mission 9 times in a row or do cetus bounties when I don't need to)...

For Wolf Credits, Either go back to the old alert system , but rebalance the rewards to they make sense, or what I would do personally do would be to Make Alerts Give Wolf Credits instead of items, that way players would farm Alerts to get the wolf credits, then be able to buy exactly what they needed... Besides, Alerts are great as random things that pop up and that give you a reason to clear the starchart to unlock. To me wolf credits don't fit in Nightwave, it's another system with it's own submenu and function and what it offers isn't necessarily well suited to the two different realities of warframe players.

On one side you have veterans who don't want wolf creds because they pretty much have 100% of the stuff from alerts already... I'm sure the vets would prefer only having 20-25 rewards per season instead of 30 and wolf credits.

On the other, you have the noobs, who are missing 60+ alternate helmets and other stuff and that need a steady ,regular source of wolf credts to bulk buy all this stuff they don't have. With the old system , catching up was simple, you just got a phone alert program that notified you when the helmet you needed was on alert, logged on five minutes and there you go... Now it'll be days of doing repetitive bounties till you get a minuscule , limited amount of wolf creds you can spend on tons of different items ranging from cosmetics to mandatory materials like Nitain.... Crasy...

Again, as a vet this doesn't really affect me, as I have my stockpile of Nitain and materials and all helmets and cosmetics and such.. But I dread to imagine how a new player would feel about this.

Edited by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra
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As far as progression goes, most (if not all challenges) are pretty easy. Like, the hardest one right now by far is the hydrologist fight. It's one of those fights where you need a decent amp and a decent team. These challenges should not be behind a massive time gate and with that being said... I hope you don't have orb heists challenges. The rewards from the tiers are nothing special, they are okayish.

The big problem I see are wolf creds. There's a total of 300 wolf creds to be made in this "episode" or "chapter" or whatever you want to call it. Presumably, I've heard that after getting the 300k needed to complete the episode you will instead get wolf creds for your extra standing. Now, I don't know how many wolf creds you would be getting after that but you would need a substantial amount of wolf creds to make it even similar to the rewards you were getting from alerts.

The nice thing about alerts was that while you might have not gotten the things that you wanted, the alert system would be always giving out plenty of rewards. Here, have this alternate helmet, a nightmare mod, nitain, a potato, a weapon, an aura, a skin, some oxium, etc. It was always giving out stuff. I might have not needed some but it sure felt nice exploring the rewards that i didn't need. Now, with the amount of wolf creds to be obtained and the prices of the stuff there I just feel like you just took all those potential rewards from me and limited me to a certain amount of purchases.

I would very much like to see auras/potatoes behind daily challenges. You can keep them in the cred store as well but I would also suggest cutting down the prices on those 2 items. Also, the prices of the alternate helmets are ridiculous as well. I don't know how many times I saw these helmets on the alert system and I deeply regret not getting them when they were available there.

So, in short, I have no objection to your seasonal rewards and most of your challenges (so far, again, please no heist challenges) but as far as auras/potatoes/nitain/alternate helmets go, the old alert system was way more rewarding even if you didn't get exactly what you wanted. To me, this system went from giving out almost everything you wanted minus a few important things to a system that limits your rewards in favor of being able to get those few important things that you wanted.

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13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

... snip ...

Given all this why exactly did the current alert system need to be removed?  As it stood the alert system was essentially autonomous, requiring little upkeep or input.
Removing alerts leaves the game with fewer things to do now, not more, as the Nightwave is mostly passive tasks while doing a variety of mission types and aspects.  Or more so now 'forced' missions if you didn't do a variety of things.

 

Some points of note:
We have lost all sense of a living universe. The alerts gave an intuitive sense of a living universe where things happen here and there that you can catch or simply miss out on if you don't act immediately.

Alerts were actually quite intuitive for newer players, do X task get Y reward. Newer players aren't going to know what most of these challenges even mean, let alone have the capabilities of achieving the missions.  They don't yet know what an invasion is, or who Simaris is and how to scan (until completing the Simaris quest), or what an Ayatan is.
Warframe is a fairly confusing game as to what a player should be doing and the Nightwave is just going to add far more questions.

There is less ways for players to quickly help newer players.  Now to help them it will take hours, not minutes.  This will result in fewer new players receiving help.

Adding Umbral Forma (while a nice idea) removes any uniqueness to Umbral Excalibur and any future Umbral frames (no real point now), making them yet 'just another frame'.

'Weekend Warriors' as you have dubbed them will have to only be doing the Nightwave tasks for their weekly play (presuming they want to hit all 30 tiers).  If we say they get just one day on a weekend it leaves them with only 35000 rep per week available (one of each daily and no Simaris targets), while the Simaris target scanning will need to be once every 2 weeks (as they typically cap at 4 targets, thus 2 days worth) for a little bonus. This leaves them with a very small window of error or ability to miss.

-------------------------------------------
Alerts were not as bad as they are made out, you can get all the bits and bobs without needing to use the alert indicators and just catch them when you would be playing the game otherwise (I personally only ever caught the alerts while I would be playing otherwise and have all but the newest cosmetic helms, abet I've been playing a long time).  You just need to be patient and expect it to take some time.  Sure it is not ideal, but you can get things.
The Nightwave system has goals you can completely miss (regardless of how long you play or your patience) simply because you don't have the time to dedicate to playing that much warframe.
Many alerts were just pointless. Why play for a bunch of credits when you get equal or more credits from a normal (often quicker) mission?

Overall Alerts were inclusive (though not ideal) on the whole, Nightwave is exclusive (as an addition to alerts and no loss of progression, it would be much more inclusive).

Edited by Loswaith
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12 minutes ago, Loswaith said:

Given all this why exactly did the current alert system need to be removed?  As it stood the alert system was essentially autonomous, requiring little upkeep or input.
Removing alerts leaves the game with fewer things to do now, not more, as the Nightwave is mostly passive tasks while doing a variety of mission types and aspects.  Or more so now 'forced' missions if you didn't do a variety of things.

 

Some points of note:
We have lost all sense of a living universe. The alerts gave an intuitive sense of a living universe where things happen here and there that you can catch or simply miss out on if you don't act immediately.

Alerts were actually quite intuitive for newer players, do X task get Y reward. Newer players aren't going to know what most of these challenges even mean, let alone have the capabilities of achieving the missions.  They don't yet know what an invasion is, or who Simaris is and how to scan (until completing the Simaris quest), or what an Ayatan is.
Warframe is a fairly confusing game as to what a player should be doing and the Nightwave is just going to add far more questions.

There is less ways for players to quickly help newer players.  Now to help them it will take hours, not minutes.  This will result in fewer new players receiving help.

Adding Umbral Forma (while a nice idea) removes any uniqueness to Umbral Excalibur and any future Umbral frames (no real point now), making them yet 'just another frame'.

'Weekend Warriors' as you have dubbed them will have to only be doing the Nightwave tasks for their weekly play (presuming they want to hit all 30 tiers).  If we say they get just one day on a weekend it leaves them with only 35000 rep per week available (one of each daily and no Simaris targets), while the Simaris target scanning will need to be once every 2 weeks (as they typically cap at 4 targets, thus 2 days worth) for a little bonus. This leaves them with a very small window of error or ability to miss.

-------------------------------------------
Alerts were not as bad as they are made out, you can get all the bits and bobs without needing to use the alert indicators and just catch them when you would be playing the game otherwise (I personally only ever caught the alerts while I would be playing otherwise and have all but the newest cosmetic helms, abet I've been playing a long time).  You just need to be patient and expect it to take some time.  Sure it is not ideal, but you can get things.
The Nightwave system has goals you can completely miss (regardless of how long you play or your patience) simply because you don't have the time to dedicate to playing that much warframe.
Many alerts were just pointless. Why play for a bunch of credits when you get equal or more credits from a normal (often quicker) mission?

Overall Alerts were inclusive (though not ideal) on the whole, Nightwave is exclusive (as an addition to alerts and no loss of progression, it would be much more inclusive).

Its setting in more now, finished most the tasks apart from the scans(ive avoided that since the start) leaving just the Eximus kills and the Hydrolist(which shouldnt be to hard) and instead of playing and enjoying the day on Warframe I found myself fishing and then logging out and moaning here.

Shouldn't of removed the old alerts really is that simple so I hope you will listen to players and please bring them back ASAP, run them along side Nightwave it wont do any harm. But lets face it what this update was really about is limiting the amount of rare stuff we can so we are more likely to use plat in the market, which is your big wet dream as it removes those coins from the economy meaning someone somewhere has to spend more...

I really get the impression this update was not designed for fun and entertainment but as a means to further monetize the game, while telling us we are now getting what we want!

How about dump the wolf credits all together and swap them out for normal credits. say 10,000 creds per 1 wolf would be a decent rate even 20 wouldnt be so bad and have the items unlock at certain levels! Also consider giving out more items on the higher tier rewards, bit mean we get 20,000 kuva then a few ranks later its only 20,000 again instead of been a few more same with the Wolf Credits always 50, surely as we reach higher ranks it makes sense to get more credits but that goes back to my suspicion on why it is the way it is...

It would also make the rest of the syndicates better as well if we just had to unlock the tier rewards and then we can purchase whatever with credits instead of standing, but hey I'm looking at ways of making the game more enjoyable not profitable.

While I'm on my make the game more fun, Rivens. Please change it so we unlock it for the weapon we use to do the challenge with and just make the desirable stats a little more rare. In 4/500 hours and doing the Sortie everyday Ive only managed to aquire 11 or so of these and not on if for a weapon I like of use. Yes traders will moan but hey I want something fun I can enjoy for years to come.

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@[DE]Rebecca
Is this a 1 time only series?
Will all Nightwaves be 1 time only?

I distinctly remember a Devstream where one of the teams regrets/laments were that Tactical Alerta were time only & in effect caused many players (New, Past, & especially Future) to miss out on Lore with absolutely 0 Chance at being able to one day relive it/experience it.

So will Nightwave Series rotate after a certain amount have been implemented?
IE: 3 or 6 months down the line The Wolf of Saturn Six replays for players who were not around for the original premiere & etc.

IMPO...
These should cycle. I really don't think making these a 1 time only event is a good thing. Especially given the amount of Development time that is being applied to the Lore of these events.

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Love the way how players always find a reason to blame DE. If DE put 1k Plat as a reward somewhere I can bet that someone will appear who will cry it’s not enough.

Yeah because going from a system where I could earn an item in a few minuted to requiring multiple missions that will take a good day or two to complete, and limiting said item in the process is cool and fun?

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9 minutes ago, TheSkunkyMonk said:

Yeah because going from a system where I could earn an item in a few minuted ...

And then cry about content drought.

 

10 minutes ago, TheSkunkyMonk said:

... to requiring multiple missions that will take a good day or two to complete, and limiting said item in the process is cool and fun?

You have whole week to do them. Tbh, I made half of them with friend in 1hr.

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Some of the rewards - mainly umbral forma and the cosmetics are great rewards - wow was my first reaction. Then you start to count. 

After all debate and feedback your best was to create another wall another timegate? Really truly that was your best shot?

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

And then cry about content drought.

 

You have whole week to do them. Tbh, I made half of them with friend in 1hr.

Good for you, did you reach rank 3 and get those creds in that hour? Taken me 4/5 to get to rank 2 but I wasn't really playing to hard. Used to take me five minutes though to get what is on offer for credits.

Missing my point though but hey if you enjoy the update good for you, but I bet you already have a good supply of the stuff that was removed from the alerts and don't need to worry about getting your now seriously limited supply. This should of just been a side reward thing not a replacement for the alerts. When I first seen it I thought it was actually going to be more quests, the most enjoyable part of the game.

 

Edited by TheSkunkyMonk
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10 hours ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

Also, is there really no story missions? Just a few voice overs? It seems really disconnected from the overall picture.

I need to expand on this because after sleeping on it I'm even more appalled by how disconnected our menial task list is from anything having to do with the Story of Wolf of Saturn Six.
No connecting theme in the rotating challenges, just RNG based luck on what chore list you'll be handed each week for this series.
Just disconnected voice lines while doing random stuff.
Some chance of random spawns of prisoners and the Wolf, with no context within missions, wasn't even anything you got to choose from the Nightwave, remember how you could choose alerts? Yep, none of that.
It's all so disjointed and meaningless, hammered home with your immediate feedback being nothing, just abstract standing that you can do nothing with until you reach 10k, then it rewards you something, and it's not a great start for a first impression to reward glyphs and sigil - Sigils that don't even allow you to earn standing passively!

EDIT: 1000 measly standing for scanning 25 objects/enemies?? That is such a chore! And you have 1-2 days to do this boring random non-Wolf-task!

Edited by SnuggleBuckets
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11 hours ago, Shifted said:

This is ridiculous level of grind, on top of an already awful "limited-time" system.

Steve asked on twitter wheter we want a battle pass, and got back so many "HELL NO" responses he had to ask people to stop replying.
And now what do we get? A battle pass.

Image result for you have become the very thing you swore to destroy

 

+1

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Flawed as they were, alerts were great at directing you towards gamemodes or nodes you haven't played in a while.  Without them, I waste a lot of time just trying to decide on where to go next.

If the issue is "people are missing rewards" or "don't have the time", why wouldn't more frequent alerts solve that? Or different types of alerts?

Why not approach it like arbitrations, and just add onto it with higher difficulties and new rewards?

I don't understand the urge to get rid of it entirely.  Getting a heat sword bp or vauban piece for the billionth time is lame, sure, but at least it was something.

EDIT: And don't even get me started on the grind.  I'm happy that there's something new to do, but it's making already existing content harder to access compared to its previous incarnation.  No matter how you look at it, that's a step backwards.

I tried to like this patch.  I really did.  And there are still some good ideas here, but thinking about grinding for those new cosmetics or the umbra forma the way it is now just makes me tired.

Edited by PR0JAX
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This new system almost reminds me of Destiny 1 and it's Vanguard bounties.

Only thing I see worth my time is the tier rewards. Maybe nitain, if and when I need it, but it'll become an after thought.

I do believe that Elite Challenges should reward more standing in the future with respect to the activity. Especially, something like hunting Hydrolyst. 15k to 20k is a more suitable amount given the amount of effort it takes just to even be able to complete that. 5k sounds like something a single Eidolon would be worth in standing and even that may be too little.

The players are mostly right, though. This new system is not an improvement over alerts. It is a very large step backwards to make something slower than it original was. That is the very opposite of progress. And this notion of wanting to get rid of the "snooze you lose" aspect of alerts, but then replace it with a  "use it or lose it" system has no symmetry to it's logic. With old alerts the chances of obtaining a missed item were higher as it rotated more. With Night Wave it rotates less, but is gated by an significantly longer grind. With a game economy that resets. If the intention was to make something that looked too easy more difficult, then yes, Night Wave is currently a success.

Those are my impressions so far. It would be worth consideration to see if this increases or decreases how these awards are obtained, compared to the old alerts that is. 

 

Edited by (PS4)FatMacBrbn
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Don't know if thats a bug but if by a chance you do a a wolf challenge of higher rank ( like sortie one for 5k rep) while already being close to the rank up ( I was 9k/10k) you will lose that extra reputation, it won't carry over into next tier. ( I went into tier 2, got glyph, lo and behold I'm back aat 0/10k ).  You could tell us  that we have to plan them ahead so we don't lose rep from those challenges.

Edited by Trickster_God_Loki
big typo
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10 minutes ago, Trickster_God_Loki said:

Don't know if thats a bug but if by a chance you do a a wolf challenge of higher rank ( like sortie one for 5k rep) while already being close to the rank up ( I was 9k/10k) you will lose that extra reputation, it won't carry over into next tier. ( I went into tier 2, got glyph, lo and behold I'm back aat 0/10k ).  You could tell us  that we have to plan them ahead so we don't lose rep from those challenges. challenges

Maybe a bug.

Mine carried over, resetting me to 2k/10k after reaching tier 2. 

Unless there's a limit to how much is allowed to carry over?

Speaking of, I will say that the cap not increasing at the next rank was a welcomed sight. Hopefully it stays that way. 

Edited by (PS4)FatMacBrbn
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5 minutes ago, (PS4)FatMacBrbn said:

Maybe a bug.

Mine carried over, resetting me to 2k/10k after reaching tier 2. 

Unless there's a limit to how much is allowed to carry over?

Speaking of, I will say that the cap not increasing at the next rank was a welcomed sight. Hopefully it stays that way. 

Hope they will get rid of the limit (if there is any). There will be more situations like this in the future where you will do some of challenges at the same time and no one wants to lose rep because of wolf mission lottery.

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