Complaints about Nightwave? Read this!

[Redlove108]

The problem with Nightwave is the very low wolf cred give out. That's the core issue here. With the previous alert system I could:

• Get an aura mod
• Get an alt helmet
• Get 2 nitains or more if I'm online all day.
• Get a vauban print
• Get a weapon

All in 1 day!! That's the real problem here. Then the next day I could get an assortment of 5 different things and sure maybe I already had it and skipped out. That's fine, this would free me up to do something else that day. So previously it felt like I could get stuff to the point, I didn't really need to worry or micromanage a new currency.

Now with the new system I do a week's worth of dailys, weeklys, farm up some fugitives to reach just 50 wolf cred. With that alone I can't get much. The costs go as:

• Alt helmets - 35
• Auras - 20
• skins - 30
• Weapons - 50
• vauban parts - 25
• Orokin Catalyst/Reactor - 75
• Nitain x5 - 15

That 50 creds for a week's worth of tasks goes for very, very little. I could get... 2 aura mods in 1 weeks that's it. Or how about 1 skin. Maybe 1 helmet? What about 1 weapon? 2 vauban parts? 15 nitain sure sounds nice but I'm not getting anything else beyond it which is the real problem here. Previously I could get a number of items mixed in and sure it be an assorted mess of quality and things I may or may not need but they were there for the taking whenever I wanted and that's the problem.

Now I have to micro manage a limited supply of creds for a vast array of items. There's no way in hell any new player will be grabbing alt helmets, auras, skins or vauban parts. The only thing they'll go for is those potatos and for 10 weeks of grinding out tasks you just get 4 of them. That's it, nothing else. No aura mods, no skins, no weapons, etc. 10 weeks in the old Alert System may never give a new player a potato unless they were lucky but you can be damn sure they got everything else and then some.

That's the problem here.

 

 

[DerGreif2]

And also here:

So first of I also work and have a travel time 1,5 hours so 3 hours just traveling... so 11 hours at min are gone and I have to say: the new system looks really really good.

People have to work a little bit for the prizes and thats a good thing. The under one hour player (in a grind game...) are in a disadvantage and that's also good because we veterans have nothing to do at all. This new system gives us something to do every day. Its also not a 0 or 100 rewards kind of things. You dont need all things and if you want them then you have to work for it.

And the old alert system was horrible. Come me with the credit alerts. Even when I was MR3 I never used them because you get often more credits from the mission itself... also nitain is also not a pain to get anymore. Every one that wants the old system back: no it's a straight up improvement. If you dont like it dont play it. If you have just a few minutes per day it's nothing for you. Not all content have to be for all players. I am glad that DE have done that.

[IspanoLFW]

3 hours ago, Hyroncore said:

Ok here is something I can discuss. Sure it can be an issue for veterans such as myself to wait. BUT we do NOT know what is coming. All the complaints at this stage are mere speculation. What IS NOT follows:

1. A system that is allowing veterans like myself who had no access to resources like Nitain the chance to finally get them. 
2. A system that allows REAL choice not just a fake choice created by an algorithm plucking x number of alerts from y pool that I will not always have time for.
3. A system that is brand new that WILL require and of course get tweaks as the ones we mentioned (PS the chicken frame bad joke was related to Vay Heks Earth Raid :P)

Most veterans were ignoring all bar very specific alerts and this allows you access to rewards YOU CHOOSE. This has been a long time coming frankly and the fact people said hardcore players could get 15 nitain in the same time frame as the reward tiers allow currently ignores the major fact that THOSE ALERTS WERE TIME SENSITIVE and now they are not! 

Also I want to correct you the 2 dailies were there since launch and I believe unless you can stack them like you can in other games that is a false statement saying 1 was yesterday and 1 was today. Until I can be sure when they are supposed to reset both for the daily and weekly reset I will not speculate further though.

The two dailes were not there when the system launched. Only the Glyph one was. When daily reset happened at 4PM Pacific(my time) is when the second one showed up. They seem to last 3 days on their own, so it's harder to miss them, but still only one daily per day so far.

[Hyroncore]

Just now, IspanoLFW said:

The two dailes were not there when the system launched. Only the Glyph one was. When daily reset happened at 4PM Pacific(my time) is when the second one showed up. They seem to last 3 days on their own, so it's harder to miss them, but still only one daily per day so far.

Ah ok well I was on when the update deployed and didnt exactly check how many there were so this makes sense. And thank you for clarification on TZ when it occured this appears inline with what others have said as well at this point.

[IspanoLFW]

1 minute ago, Hyroncore said:

Ah ok well I was on when the update deployed and didnt exactly check how many there were so this makes sense. And thank you for clarification on TZ when it occured this appears inline with what others have said as well at this point.

Yeah, I did the Glyph one almost immediately and had no Daily til reset.

[Hyroncore]

21 minutes ago, Kajin_Style said:

The problem with Nightwave is the very low wolf cred give out. That's the core issue here. With the previous alert system I could:

• Get an aura mod
• Get an alt helmet
• Get 2 nitains or more if I'm online all day.
• Get a vauban print
• Get a weapon

All in 1 day!! That's the real problem here. Then the next day I could get an assortment of 5 different things and sure maybe I already had it and skipped out. That's fine, this would free me up to do something else that day. So previously it felt like I could get stuff to the point, I didn't really need to worry or micromanage a new currency.

Now with the new system I do a week's worth of dailys, weeklys, farm up some fugitives to reach just 50 wolf cred. With that alone I can't get much. The costs go as:

• Alt helmets - 35
• Auras - 20
• skins - 30
• Weapons - 50
• vauban parts - 25
• Orokin Catalyst/Reactor - 75
• Nitain x5 - 15

That 50 creds for a week's worth of tasks goes for very, very little. I could get... 2 aura mods in 1 weeks that's it. Or how about 1 skin. Maybe 1 helmet? What about 1 weapon? 2 vauban parts? 15 nitain sure sounds nice but I'm not getting anything else beyond it which is the real problem here. Previously I could get a number of items mixed in and sure it be an assorted mess of quality and things I may or may not need but they were there for the taking whenever I wanted and that's the problem.

Now I have to micro manage a limited supply of creds for a vast array of items. There's no way in hell any new player will be grabbing alt helmets, auras, skins or vauban parts. The only thing they'll go for is those potatos and for 10 weeks of grinding out tasks you just get 4 of them. That's it, nothing else. No aura mods, no skins, no weapons, etc. 10 weeks in the old Alert System may never give a new player a potato unless they were lucky but you can be damn sure they got everything else and then some.

That's the problem here.

 

 

This is a prime example of the issues this game has. I can see and to a DEGREE agree with you. BUT there are systems INCLUDING railjack on the way that may address this. And another comment already covered a fair response to that and that is they have scaled it LOW to start so they dont FLOOD players with Wold Cred and devaule them as a result.

Its posts like this that sadly endanger the game that this is looking to become because people want an easy ride. Sure alt helms and such are nice BUT BUT BUT. Are you looking at mods like the 400% fire rate grakata mod that if you kill 2 people  with it during that duration IT RETURNS AMMO USED? They are providing real rewards comparing to the original system and frankly that seems to be ignored for a quibble over Wolf Creds. If you factor in that no single player can be online (Assuming they are living a healthy life) 24 hours a day that then equates the wolf credits to a real value that directly reflects the gains you can make of those items using that old system you seem enamored with.) You get 4 nitain per day and that requires you on WHEN THAT  ALERT OCCURED it caused people to watch Twitter and that was against the goals DE had for the game.  How about looking at the link in the opening post and read the design intents please before assuming you KNOW what the problem is. You seem to have ignored a thread DE CREATED to prosecute an argument based on personal feelings.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Hyroncore

[Redlove108]

2 minutes ago, Hyroncore said:

Its posts like this that sadly endanger the game that this is looking to become because people want an easy ride. Sure alt helms and such are nice BUT BUT BUT. Are you looking at mods like the 400% fire rate grakata mod that if you kill 2 people  with it during that duration IT RETURNS AMMO USED? They are providing real rewards comparing to the original system and frankly that seems to be ignored for a quibble over Wolf Creds. If you factor in that no single player can be online (Assuming they are living a healthy life) that then equates the wolf credits to a real value that directly reflects the gains you can make of those items using that old system you seem enamored with.) You get 4 nitain per day and that requires you on WHEN THAT  ALERT OCCURED it caused people to watch Twitter and that was against the goals DE had for the game.  How about looking at the link in the opening post and read the design intents please before assuming you KNOW what the problem is. You seem to have ignored a thread DE CREATED to prosecute an argument based on personal feelings.

The low cred payout is my only issue. The whole idea of Nightwave was to remove the need for people to login for those alerts, correct? Yet now this is forcing us to play longer than we might've wished for and to do so every week. That's not exactly a bonus.

Now granted, the tier rewards are frigging awesome. There's some great stuff in there and honestly that stuff in there is what I had expected to be in the shop! Instead it is gated in the tiers, which is ok.. but the usual alert things people would grab is now blocked by a couple tiers or more. I'm sure in the long run it might balance out but right now it is rough and feels like we were cheated out.

[Hyroncore]

2 minutes ago, Kajin_Style said:

The low cred payout is my only issue. The whole idea of Nightwave was to remove the need for people to login for those alerts, correct? Yet now this is forcing us to play longer than we might've wished for and to do so every week. That's not exactly a bonus.

Now granted, the tier rewards are frigging awesome. There's some great stuff in there and honestly that stuff in there is what I had expected to be in the shop! Instead it is gated in the tiers, which is ok.. but the usual alert things people would grab is now blocked by a couple tiers or more. I'm sure in the long run it might balance out but right now it is rough and feels like we were cheated out.

Ok remember we didnt start at a weekly reset. We started midweek that happens to be a part of the issue. And thankfully you noticed the 40k kuva and 3 weapon mods :P.

[gfb537]

24 minutes ago, Hyroncore said:

The ONLY indication of how long the season is is that the Wolf Cred packs decay at the end and there is a timer somewhere (The post I linked in OP mentioned it right at the bottom) The rep gain issues you and others have mentioned are moot until we get word from DE. Sure in the past they have made mistakes and thus launched redux Plague Star and Ghouls as a result for one example of a positive change. I get that the issues for lower players are fair BUT for example I just helped someone today who is MR 6 figure out what they needed to unlock Sorties. When he has that done I will do them THIRD time for me today to help that player. The major issue I see is people are making the newer players an excuse and not looking at this as a potentially positive community building aspect. Time will telll and I will keep doing what I can to help new and low MR players achieve the same level of success that I can.

This right here is an example a PERFECT example of what we do NOT know and why we should be more patient specificly the words in bold. Until we get either ingame verification from players or DE directly commenting we can NOT continue to speculate wildly as it just isnt worth the time spent doing so. Sure the math is wonky and as mentioned in other replies the week started off short due to the wednesday patch. 

 

I reiterate that time and patience are key with all things Warframe and this is no exception. 

The entire Nightwave system implies that the season will end, not just the statement regarding cred pack decay.  It *must* end, otherwise anyone who plays for more than three months will not care about the system at all and the crying on the forums about the loss of alerts will be epic.  It was clearly stated that Nightwave is intended to add lore to the game.  It cannot do that unless there is more than one season.  It is possible that there will simply be a set of seasons that will grow over time and players can select what season to work on, allowing them to complete them at their own pace (I'd be for such a system), but the stated intent for the cred packs to decay conflicts with such a design, so that seems unlikely.  We're left to conclude, then, that the seasons will end, leaving some people without the higher rank rewards or with people sitting around with nothing to do until it ends.

Another issue that occurs to me: what about people that join or return to the game half way through a season?  Such a player would be unable to access the higher tier rewards in the Nightwave system since they could not gain sufficient rep prior to the close of the season, meaning they would need to wait through roughly 1.5 seasons to get to high rank rewards which are clearly of higher quality than the lower ranks.

The issues are not moot until we have answers.  The questions exist because DE has not answered them with their initial release or with response posts.  It is entirely of their own making.  They are far more competent game designers than I will ever be and I came up with these questions within a few hours of exposure to this system.  They've had months with the system.  The idea that they don't have answers to these questions is almost unthinkable to me.  I have too much faith in their competence.

To my knowledge there has never been a stated intent that the Nightwave system be an overt community building system.  Your efforts to help one player are laudable, but do not address the questions I and others have with regards to the function and design of the new system.  Further: it should not be the responsibility of the community to overcome the shortcomings of a system DE designed at this point (*critically eyes warframe.market filling the gap of an in-game auction house*).  Maybe when the game launched, but we're a few years on from that now and DE should know better.  I'm all for community building, but requiring veteran players to hand-hold newer ones just to make the weekly rep quota is bad design.  I'm hoping that's not what DE had in mind, but none of us can know that until DE clarifies.  DE has earned plenty of good will and benefit-of-the-doubt at this point, but they've still left us in the dark at this moment.  That cannot be controversial.

So far I haven't seen anyone really being disrespectful to DE or other commenters, which is nice, though I'll grant you I haven't exactly gone looking.  We're all just looking for answers as a result of DE not providing them as part of the release.  Suggesting that we all sit on our hands and wait for Momma DE to dole out answers when they're good and ready misses the point of having a community in the first place.  This is a place for two-way communication.  We get to ask DE when we feel like it just as much as DE gets to answer when they feel like it.  You seem to be arguing that we should all sit back and relax and not worry about it.  Some of us are worried about it.  We are engaged.  We are critical.  We are questioning.  We are allowed to be those things.  That is not the same thing as being toxic.  One might interpret it as caring about the health of the game.

[DeMonkey]

29 minutes ago, Kajin_Style said:

The whole idea of Nightwave was to remove the need for people to login for those alerts, correct? Yet now this is forcing us to play longer than we might've wished for and to do so every week. That's not exactly a bonus.

It is.

Instead of having to be on a particular time, you can now play whenever you want. Bonus.

Instead of logging in, doing an alert for something you probably already have and then wondering what to do with your time, you now have clearly defined goals that you can work towards over the course of the week, additional rewards for doing so and the choice of what standard alert rewards you want to purchase. Bonus.

If you're unable to put in a few hours a week to do the weekly/daily stuff, then I have no idea how you're managing to log in consistently for these oh so important alerts that get you oh so important rewards. Plus, since when has having things to do been considered a bad thing?

I love the fact that I have a reason to sink more hours into the game.

The system is only "not a bonus" if you're tunnel visioning so hard on the wolf creds that you turn blind to everything else.

[Genesix6]

You know when I see those rewards, I was simply happy that DE still knows the definition of good reward.

Now what is my issue with this? 

I ain't got time for this, lot of people got a job, teens go to go school, and when you have a system like this, which is basically this "you need to attend everyday and complete the side quests to progress futher" with this system I'm pretty much already screwed, cause I got to prepare for the exam, find a college, and studying. Even if I playing for a week, those time will be wasted because the system reset your progress, so yeah nothing I can do here to be exact, also this system really reminds me of the system of bunch mobile games have, where you have side quest that you need to complete to get better rewards then reset after a certain time. 

[(XBOX)Dic3man]

Quote

Even if I playing for a week, those time will be wasted because the system reset your progress,

Do you think your weekly standing will be reset every week :-)?

Then it would be really bad haha since no one will ever reach any rank higher than 3...

Edited February 28, 2019 by (XB1)Dic3man

[Genesix6]

48 minutes ago, (XB1)Dic3man said:

Do you think your weekly standing will be reset every week :-)?

Then it would be really bad haha since no one will ever reach any rank higher than 3...

No

Considering the fact they stated that each season has it's exclusive rewards, meaning if you miss the other season, you will be missing those damn rewards, considering the fact umbra forma (exclusive to nightwave) which is 1 at rank 29. 

10 weeks for each season, from what I have gathered about the nightwave side quest is this

Edit: it seems after a bit of research, this what you can get

- Each week gave out a total of 43,000 point. (unless there are bonus tasks...)

- 60% of 43,000 is 25,800. If each tier require 10,000 to reach, you'll get about 5 tier per 2 weeks or 10 tier per month.

- To get to 30 tier it would take you about 12 weeks or about 3 to 4 month.

Then you got quest such as bringing a friend to a sorties, considering most of my friends in inactive for a long time, it wouldn't really work, and you got quest such fill 5 ayatan sculpture, and I am not gonna bother with one cause you can get from random mission or arbitration (which is RNG) (also boring unless there is volt with 300% strength).

Then when you enter mid season, good luck on getting that rank 29 forma umbra forma, cause there's limit of many side quest you can take. You won't be able to to reach that rank as well.

Now for me and other people? Got no time for this since my most of the time is studying and going to school. I can only play warframe for like 1-2 hours. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Genesix6

[(PSN)kindredjeffry]

5 hours ago, Hyroncore said:

Ok here is something I can discuss. Sure it can be an issue for veterans such as myself to wait. BUT we do NOT know what is coming. All the complaints at this stage are mere speculation. What IS NOT follows:

1. A system that is allowing veterans like myself who had no access to resources like Nitain the chance to finally get them. 
2. A system that allows REAL choice not just a fake choice created by an algorithm plucking x number of alerts from y pool that I will not always have time for.
3. A system that is brand new that WILL require and of course get tweaks as the ones we mentioned (PS the chicken frame bad joke was related to Vay Heks Earth Raid :P)

Most veterans were ignoring all bar very specific alerts and this allows you access to rewards YOU CHOOSE. This has been a long time coming frankly and the fact people said hardcore players could get 15 nitain in the same time frame as the reward tiers allow currently ignores the major fact that THOSE ALERTS WERE TIME SENSITIVE and now they are not! 

Also I want to correct you the 2 dailies were there since launch and I believe unless you can stack them like you can in other games that is a false statement saying 1 was yesterday and 1 was today. Until I can be sure when they are supposed to reset both for the daily and weekly reset I will not speculate further though.

It is now way to much of a grind to get certain material,  for me Nitain.. No other way for me to get it but do a crazy amount of missions. I miss the alerts already,  now I'm skrewed and have to play for ? IDK how long it'll take me to get to 3rd standing..  That's the soonest I'll be able to purchase any..  And it's way more than I'll need,  I just need 2. It's a fix to some problems I guess,  but a major problem in another area.  I don't have long amounts of time to play.  And Nitain is also untraceable so I can't even get any from friends or for platnium

[trst]

This tweet from Steve should clear up a lot:

This is all over a ten week period and considering most of the acts we've seen thus far are all completable within 1-2 missions (minus complete X number of missions of course) and can overlap with eachother (X kills, Simaris scans, etc). So just being able to log in and play for an hour or two every 2-3 days seems to be all you'd need to not only reach rank 30 but to exceed it and be able to "prestige".

If anyone feels that they're unable to dedicate even half that amount of time to the game a week then I don't see how it's at all worse than the alert system. Especially since the worst aspect of the alert system is missing important alerts and having no idea when the next alert will be for that reward. Now you only need to dedicate some amount of time doing some very general objectives and then just save your cred until the reward you want is in the cred shop.

 

Also with the prestige ranks we've only been told that it allows you to earn even more cred. Since it's safe to assume it won't just recycle the exact same tier rewards (since we can't use duplicate cosmetics) it might be mostly cred rewards. If the extra cred from prestige are worthwhile then even the concerns over how expensive the cred shop seems might not hold much weight.

However we need to wait and see (or be told by DE) the specifics of these prestige ranks to fully judge the system.

Edited February 28, 2019 by trst

[Hyroncore]

25 minutes ago, trst said:

This tweet from Steve should clear up a lot:

This is all over a ten week period and considering most of the acts we've seen thus far are all completable within 1-2 missions (minus complete X number of missions of course) and can overlap with eachother (X kills, Simaris scans, etc). So just being able to log in and play for an hour or two every 2-3 days seems to be all you'd need to not only reach rank 30 but to exceed it and be able to "prestige".

If anyone feels that they're unable to dedicate even half that amount of time to the game a week then I don't see how it's at all worse than the alert system. Especially since the worst aspect of the alert system is missing important alerts and having no idea when the next alert will be for that reward. Now you only need to dedicate some amount of time doing some very general objectives and then just save your cred until the reward you want is in the cred shop.

 

Also with the prestige ranks we've only been told that it allows you to earn even more cred. Since it's safe to assume it won't just recycle the exact same tier rewards (since we can't use duplicate cosmetics) it might be mostly cred rewards. If the extra cred from prestige are worthwhile then even the concerns over how expensive the cred shop seems might not hold much weight.

However we need to wait and see (or be told by DE) the specifics of these prestige ranks to fully judge the system.

Ah the vaunted response from Steve. I wasnt aware of this thanks a ton! Adding to the OP thank you!

[SECURATYYY]

Wait and see people. Don't dump on it yet. Any slight change in the Warframe world is always met with hostility by a few.

 

10 weeks for the season. This is day 1.

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

The rush is quite amazing.

Just the amount of WTB empty sculptures on trade chat was incredible.

Yo guys, there's time. You ain't gonna have anything to do tomorrow at this rate.

Noooooooooo, I want that umbra forma and I want it yesterday!!!!!!!!!!

[Hyroncore]

1 hour ago, Genesix6 said:

No

Considering the fact they stated that each season has it's exclusive rewards, meaning if you miss the other season, you will be missing those damn rewards, considering the fact umbra forma (exclusive to nightwave) which is 1 at rank 29. 

10 weeks for each season, from what I have gathered about the nightwave side quest is this

Edit: it seems after a bit of research, this what you can get

- Each week gave out a total of 43,000 point. (unless there are bonus tasks...)

- 60% of 43,000 is 25,800. If each tier require 10,000 to reach, you'll get about 5 tier per 2 weeks or 10 tier per month.

- To get to 30 tier it would take you about 12 weeks or about 3 to 4 month.

Then you got quest such as bringing a friend to a sorties, considering most of my friends in inactive for a long time, it wouldn't really work, and you got quest such fill 5 ayatan sculpture, and I am not gonna bother with one cause you can get from random mission or arbitration (which is RNG) (also boring unless there is volt with 300% strength).

Then when you enter mid season, good luck on getting that rank 29 forma umbra forma, cause there's limit of many side quest you can take. You won't be able to to reach that rank as well.

Now for me and other people? Got no time for this since my most of the time is studying and going to school. I can only play warframe for like 1-2 hours. 

So just to clarify I did all bar the scan and the 5 ayatan treasure requirement so far and that has bumped me to tier 3. OH AND THAT WAS IN 3 HOURS. I refer to to the previous post quoting steve directly as well with an answer that clearly addresses the issues. People like you are providing all these "math" responses without even listening to the damned dev from the devstream whos clearly providing an answer. Seems like one you dislike but an answer none the less. I have ZERO tolerance for this entire pitchfitanddemand attitude now because of that response as its a valid and fair one and I do NOT want entitlement to ruin this game as it has so many I have played over the years.

1. AION An easter to western MMO that was advertised as grind heavy was given NERFs for the western market due to entitled gimme now WoW players seeking a new home as WoW was not providing gratitfication as quickly as it did towards the end of WOTLK and into early Cataclysm.

2. World of Warcraft. Since TBC has been in decline and as its fallen so too has the engagement and proper care of the community from Blizzard PARTICULARLY after Activision aquired the studio and one of the original founders Mike Morhaime left the company.

3. DOTA 2 Heroes of Newerth SMITE and League of Legends. These 4 MOBAs are the epitome of community decay for various reasons. Valve has overly cash driven the game and while contributions are valuable similar to the Tennogen system Warframe has the community has grown toxic as the matchmaking does not encourage fostering new players despite many additions of systems that should help that. HON I tried but left soon after as that became FAR WORSE then LoL and DOTA are today. SMITE has not had the fanbase the other 3 have though I often return despite negativity purely due to the gameplay of 3rd person mobas being INCREDIBLE and lag aside for w/e reason it helps with skillshots just something about the view. And League. RIOT has killed this once great game and while the research they have performed regarding how toxic players behave after some of the measures they have implemented like increasing LPQ (Low Priority queues for leaving games early or duing champ select etc) and others was interesting they still havent found a fair and reasonable non exploitable system to control the decay.

I mention these games as cautionary tales because the forums for Warframe are showing the same level of entitlement despite all the damned tweets and other posts that DE provides in an effort to minimize the misinformation and absolutely unjust rage. Sure you can use the argument of if I cant play 1-2 hours a day and get everything I want its a bad design choice but if you do that AFTER reactions and proper engagment you have absolutely no leg to stand on PERIOD.

[Hyroncore]

14 minutes ago, SECURATYYY said:

Wait and see people. Don't dump on it yet. Any slight change in the Warframe world is always met with hostility by a few.

 

10 weeks for the season. This is day 1.

Wish it was that simple but preach on brother. I honestly hope some of the entitled kids that mask their greedy and blind selfishness DO leave. Warframe was great prior to this update and hello ITS EVEN BETTER. Not to mention the post IN THIS THREAD that showed a direct tweet from Steve that answers the issues already stated and yet forums are still copping new threads/posts about this issue. :S 

[sixmille]

It's too grindy and i hate it. Also, too much random junk task that ask me to repeat content i've been done with for a very long time. No, sorry, i am done with plains of eidolon, simaris, invasions and so on, and I refuse to go back to that for a measly 3k points to get some useless junk. If that's all the content team can come up with this game is in trouble.

Edited February 28, 2019 by sixmille

[kuchn]

2 hours ago, sixmille said:

If that's all the content

last content we got was POE
the rest is just recycle or copy&paste

called lean management
and minimum viable product
and streamlining delivery cycles

no reason to care for veterans cuz:
a) the wonderful sunk cost fallacy (google helps if you don't know)
b) not many reasons for them to buy plat

all for the shareholders buddy 

edit: just saw that i wrote "valuable" instead of "viable" had to fix

Edited February 28, 2019 by kuchn

[ligonare]

I will make it simple. This system seems to be an improvement, but it is a well disguised attempt to get players to invest more time into the game for periodic 'carrots'. A poorly disguised battle-pass that does not reward player time investment. at. all. 

Important resources should not be locked in this system, period.

• Resources like nitain, auras should not be gated behind a miserly token system that are awarded on a tier increase. Seriously, these are essentials for clan research and player progression. Who even thought this is a good idea?

Not 1, but 2 new arbitrary resources to keep track of.

• Reputation? Credits? Make up your mind, DE. It's either exchange creds or rep for rewards, not both. The syndicate system is a solid foundation to work from and you chose the beaten-to-death method from the TRIIIPPPPLEEEE~ A industry? Make up your mind, please.
• You don't earn rep from playing the game normally, unlike the syndicate system. You get it from a pool of achievements that have a timed reset. Great. Another time gated mechanic. Some of the achievements don't even consider the player's ability to adequately complete said achievement either (i.e. looking at you, hydrolyst hunt).
• You don't even earn wolf creds for advancing each tier or heck, performing particularly challenging elite weeklies. No. It's all a pre-determinded and well-crafted progression tree  path designed to drip-feed players as they crave the rewards shining at the end of the tunnel. It's login system 2.0 mutated.

How would i change it?

1. Change resources and evergreen rewards (potatoes, nitain, aura's) acquirement. I would change it such that it can be acquired with a more attainable metric like reputation, not wolf credits. I don't care if ppl are saying that nitain are now in packs of 3 or 5s because it makes progression linearly less efficient. The alt helms and skins are fine.
2. Let us earn rep like syndicates do, with challenges being further icing on the cake. If you need incentive to gate someway, a MR cap requirement is the most tolerable.
3. Reward wolf creds more generously (with every tier increase, challenge completed, etc.). Right now, the earn rate is pathetic.
4. Add player investment rewards in exchange for wolf creds (relics,> boosters <). Make people want to stay longer and play your content.

That's it. This system is new and promising but I will not defend it for the obvious implementation flaws that are shockingly short-sighted. /Rant. 

[(XBOX)Dic3man]

55 minutes ago, sixmille said:

It's too grindy and i hate it. Also, too much random junk task that ask me to repeat content i've been done with for a very long time. No, sorry, i am done with plains of eidolon, simaris, invasions and so on, and I refuse to go back to that for a measly 3k points to get some useless junk. If that's all the content team can come up with this game is in trouble.

Even in destiny (which is nowhere close to warframe in grindyness) I would happliy take these bounties vs the ones in there (they take alot longer than these).
 

Quote

- 60% of 43,000 is 25,800. If each tier require 10,000 to reach, you'll get about 5 tier per 2 weeks or 10 tier per month.

If you decide you only want to do 60% of the bounties then sure if you want to rank up faster then do more.
If you counted 43k per week (havent checked if thats accurate) then that will mean roughly 4 tiers per week 16 per month (not countin the few extra thousan you probably will get from caputring these "enemies" that spawn once in  a while.
So you could reach rank 30 in less than 2 months (7 weeks actually and umbral forma a bit shorter).
But sure if you dont want to or have the time you will have to wait a bit longer, or if you dont even reach rank 29 then you will miss out but thats life.
 

[IdrisQe]

33 minutes ago, sixmille said:

It's too grindy and i hate it. Also, too much random junk task that ask me to repeat content i've been done with for a very long time. No, sorry, i am done with plains of eidolon, simaris, invasions and so on, and I refuse to go back to that for a measly 3k points to get some useless junk. If that's all the content team can come up with this game is in trouble.

Figure 1. Exactly the entitlement detested and shunned in this thread.

Like, seriously... "It's too grindy"... Do you know what game you're playing? This game is grinding. Grinding is the content. "I'm done with all these things that I was supposed to be doing for a long time, and refuse to go back for that thing and consider all the rewards to be junk". It sounds more like this isn't the game for you than the developers not coming up with content. This sounds more like you're sick of the game in general. Perhaps you should play other things, and ignore Warframe for a long time.

9 minutes ago, kuchn said:

last content we got was POE
the rest is just recycle or copy&paste

called lean management
and minimum valuable product
and streamlining delivery cycles

no reason to care for veterans cuz:
a) the wonderful sunk cost fallacy (google helps if you don't know)
b) not many reasons for them to buy plat

all for the shareholders buddy 

Figure 2. An incredibly asinine response to the entitlement.

Last content was POE...? What exactly do you define "content" as, then? Is it because it was an Open World and that was a new thing they've not done before? By that logic, conservation is a new thing. The gravimag is a new thing... What exactly is it you want?

Ignoring the stupid buzzwords and typical "wahhh I'm a veteran who's done everything, make me new stuff FASTER because I did everything else to death and can't be bothered to do other things!!" banter, the crux of your "argument" is that everything since POE has been a copypaste.

Aside from that being blatantly untrue, given the amount of new assets, music, enemy types, gamemodes, warframes, weapons, etc. that has come out since then... I refer again to my previous statements: Do you realize what game this is? Warframe has always had a massive amount of copypasted content. DE is not a particularily huge studio. They ARE expanding, however. That said, look at anything in the game.

Warframe A has some similarities to Warframe B and Warframe C, they're a copypaste!
New Open World has some similar shared mechanics with Old Open World, it's a copypaste!
Weapon C is like Weapon D in stats, it's a copypaste!
Now let's apply this pseudo-logic to some other things in the game:
-This planet has the same tileset as another! It's copypaste!
-These enemies function the same as others with just different models and textures! It's copypaste!
-This entire mission type is already used in another node! It's copypaste!
See the rabbit hole you've just dove bullhead-first into?
By your "logic", there is only 1 node of each mission type, only a few planets, only 1 of each enemy type, only 1 of each weapon type, and anything even vaguely resembling something that's already in the game, not even touching on the actual cases of copypasted stuff in the game, there would be almost no space for actual new content unless they reinvented the wheel with every single update.

 

TL;DR you both:

Just because you've done everything else already doesn't mean they have to cater to your needs. If you've done everything the game has to offer, they won't just add stuff faster for you, you need to take a break, and maybe come back when there IS more stuff that interests you rather than just whining about how you're bored.

This game is full of copypasted assets, and has been since long before PoE. Fortuna was similar to PoE, just as Venus is similar to Earth.
Both tilesets? Check. Both open worlds? Check. Both have the standard mission types spread across nodes? Check. Both have bounty systems? Check.
Both have enemies that shoot you? Check. Both have enemies that shoot you? Check. Both have resources to grind? Check. Both have resources to grind? Check.

Both of you: The game has always been like this. You're just complaining because you seem to be under the impression that you have nothing better to do.
You both clearly don't enjoy what the game is and always has been about anymore: Grinding resources in repetetive tilesets doing repetetive mission types for repetetive rewards that you use to get better at doing things and look better.
So on behalf of that nagging feeling in the back of your mind: Reminder that there are other games and other activities that may better suit your interests.
I'm not saying to quit Warframe. I'm saying that you two have the classic signs of having burnt yourselves out massively:
-Taking new stuff and saying it's trash before even giving it a chance because you're sick of the game in general and spend too much time on it when you no longer enjoy it.
-Complaining about the primary thing you're meant to do in the game while ignoring that it's always been that way and you must have enjoyed it at some point.
-Refusing to play anything else to fix the issue, instead just complaining to make yourself more bitter and try to justify your bitterness.
So again:
Take a break. Seriously. It'll do you good.

Sincerely, someone who frequently takes massive breaks from games only to come back and find I've started enjoying them for what they are again.

 

16 minutes ago, ligonare said:

I will make it simple. This system seems to be an improvement, but it is a well disguised attempt to get players to invest more time into the game for periodic 'carrots'. A poorly disguised battle-pass that does not reward player time investment. at. all. 

Important resources should not be locked in this system, period.

• Resources like nitain, auras should not be gated behind a miserly token system that are awarded on a tier increase. Seriously, these are essentials for clan research and player progression. Who even thought this is a good idea?

Not 1, but 2 new arbitrary resources to keep track of.

• Reputation? Credits? Make up your mind, DE. It's either exchange creds or rep for rewards, not both. The syndicate system is a solid foundation to work from and you chose the beaten-to-death method from the TRIIIPPPPLEEEE~ A industry? Make up your mind, please.
• You don't earn rep from playing the game normally, unlike the syndicate system. You get it from a pool of achievements that have a timed reset. Great. Another time gated mechanic. Some of the achievements don't even consider the player's ability to adequately complete said achievement either (i.e. looking at you, hydrolyst hunt).
• You don't even earn wolf creds for advancing each tier or heck, performing particularly challenging elite weeklies. No. It's all a pre-determinded and well-crafted progression tree  path designed to drip-feed players as they crave the rewards shining at the end of the tunnel. It's login system 2.0 mutated.

How would i change it?

1. Change resources and evergreen rewards (potatoes, nitain, aura's) acquirement. I would change it such that it can be acquired with a more attainable metric like reputation, not wolf credits. I don't care if ppl are saying that nitain are now in packs of 3 or 5s because it makes progression linearly less efficient. The alt helms and skins are fine.
2. Let us earn rep like syndicates do, with challenges being further icing on the cake. If you need incentive to gate someway, a MR cap requirement is the most tolerable.
3. Reward wolf creds more generously (with every tier increase, challenge completed, etc.). Right now, the earn rate is pathetic.
4. Add player investment rewards in exchange for wolf creds (relics,> boosters <). Make people want to stay longer and play your content.

That's it. This system is new and promising but I will not defend it for the obvious implementation flaws that are shockingly short-sighted. /Rant. 

Aaaand here we go again...
Okay. Yeah, it doesn't look fantastic on its own. Compare it to the previous system, though:
OLD SYSTEM:
-Constantly check random third party places in case you miss opportunities to get these important resources, namely Nitain, where you were drip fed 1 at a time 4 times a day at complete random and had to check with a level of painfully OCD obsession if you wanted all four each day.
-No choice whatsoever in what you get out of alerts aside from ignoring the ones you don't want, and hoping like hell that you don't miss the ones you do want, which are often very sporadic and fleeting, such as Forma, Potato, etc. alerts.
NEW SYSTEM:
-Nitain comes in bundles. Can purchase 5 Nitain for a relatively small amount of Cred.
-Know after one look what items are available each week. Can casually work toward earning those rewards that you want at any point so long as it's before the reset.
-Complete (generally VERY easy) tasks to gain standing to rank up, gaining free bonus rewards along the way. One day in and a lot of people are already rank 2 or 3, and we started half-way into a week.
-Able to choose which rewards to buy with the creds you get. No more waiting for devstreams to get a Catalyst once every two weeks or so if you want one. No more waiting for a Reactor to show up as an Invasion reward every 2 months or so and hope that you are able to get it in time. Want Nitain? Focus on that, you've got Nitain! Want that helmet? Work toward getting it.
 

The "problems" with the new system are as follows:
-Takes more playtime (in a game about playing the game) to get the rewards you want, usually not even abnormal playtime. Compare to constantly and aggravatingly checking for alerts. That said, I agree that the timesink is annoying. A lot of the unique rewards are locked behind 5-7 weeks of hardcore gameplay with a ~10 week time limit. For those who want to take a break from the game, but are also obsessive collectors, this would be very painful, and could foster an unhealthy habit of causing burnout from playing too much just because of needing all the rewards from an emotional standpoint.
-Low cred obtaining. I'll agree with this one. At the current pricepoints, 50 every 3 or so tiers (or approximately 3 weeks) is not good. Creds should be given for completing challenges too, and at every rank-up.
-Tier system. This itself is not a bad thing. It's quite nice actually. The battle pass is popular for a reason, and it's nice to see that they are adding new, unique rewards, along with things that could normally only be obtained via plat, for free. That said, the tiers do need rebalancing, since as it stands it doesn't work very well.

(My personal, early) suggestions to improve it:
-Lower number of tiers to 20. 30 is a lot, given the 10 week time limit, and could lead to a lot of people freaking out because they can't do every solitary challenge and are panicking that they may not get enough creds/rep/etc. Keep 10 week time limit, however. Since most challenges are not difficult, this would allow even more casual players to get most of the rewards and feel good.
-Rearrange the tiers. Put most of the unique rewards closer to the bottom, so that casual players don't feel like they have missed free unique items that probably won't come back for a long time, if ever, with a few of the cash items sprinkled around (slots, forma bundles, etc.) while the high-tier stuff like the Umbra Forma can stay high-level as it's the kind of thing that only the veteran builders obsessed with long-running endgame content and putting hours and hours and hours in each day would need.
-Alternatively, make it so each tier-up allows you to choose from a set of possible rewards. The rewards you didn't choose remain available to the next tier, until eventually you've unlocked them all after gaining all 20 tiers.
-Make creds a per-tier reward. If costs are kept the same, then perhaps have cred rewards progress as follows:
Tier 1-4: 25 creds per tier. Tier 5-8: 30 creds per tier. Tier 9-12: 35 creds per tier. Tier 13-20: 40 creds per tier.
-Allow creds to carry over to the next season or whatever. Allow perhaps last-season's unspent creds to be traded in for half the amount in the new season's cred alternatives, etc. Also maybe allow trading creds in for standing, so those who don't have much time and want to rush the unique rewards while ignoring the cred-purchases can.

 

But ah, I've rambled on long enough. 4 AM scatterbrain at work there. Sleep time...