(Update 24.4.0) OPERATION: Buried Debts Feedback Megathread

[supernils]

Did a 20-40 Orb Vallis bounty and the target (I think it was catch the escapee) had resistance to all damage. We could only damage the shield.

[LizardsOnCrack]

I've had a lot of leechers while trying to do my last few fractures. They would go off and fish/mine while we did the event. They waited around till the first one started, then flew off. I only half blame them. I blame DE for the other half.

This event was the most boring and unthinkable chore you could have possibly created. I've already spent so much time in this bright white bland wasteland, that this stupid event has made me absolutely despise it. I'm glad it hardly snows where I live or I might relapse and become brain-dead again, just like this event had me do just to stand finishing the fractures all the way.

This could have been like a 'Ghouls in Fortuna' event, with somewhat varied and interesting missions. Monotonously closing these fractures was not how this should have gone. The fact that you REQUIRED archwing to even do this efficiently is a slap in the face to people that might have not been able to use it yet. And doing this while the new alert system is being tested is another bad move. The new frame is also stuck behind all this potentially. Just so much wrong with all this. Also searching for the data panels, without an official map, was monotonous as well.

TLDR this event is bad, warframe gating is bad, nobody I've seen likes this, and it's so boring

[Ratentaisou]

The Fracture event is really stressful.

Either I get matchmaking putting me where the people are just doing bounties/anything else, or I get one with really high ping because ping limit doesn't work, or I do solo and get absolutely obliterated.

Please for the love of god, make a Fracture matchmaking like how you guys did it with Eidolons, and make the ping limit actually work, I was about to break my laptop out of rage.

[linkhunter]

I think they forgot Exergis when they made Amalgam Shotgun Spazz they need to make an exception for Exergis and maybe Tigris, add fast reload to the mod for semi fire shotgun for shotguns doesn't have big magazine 

[Magmahunter]

I keep losing my progress on the fractures due to host migrations, migration failures and any other way that isn't returning to Fortuna via the elevator.

I'm currently at 11/100 but I've filled up 3 canisters completely (12 + 9 bonus) and closed a handful without using all the coolant

[AltheusV]

Ok, feedback time.

Buried debts. Who thought that wandering around trying to find 16 tiny objects would be fun? Without map and youtube video this would have been next to impossible, with the map and youtube video It was merely tedious and annoying. What you should have done is put together a quest to lead people around from place to place, hide them on bodies, in containers, behind spy missions, anything but having us run around looking for tiny objects in a big space.

 

The fissures. When you set these missions up, can we please have a briefing on what we are expected to do rather than blundering around? Go find some coolant from this thing, you can find them up around the temple of profit. Ok, drop them in to the fissures, ok, pick them up again afterwards (This was not mentioned until I was well away from the fissure on the archwing).

 

This and nightwave have turned warframe from a fun game where I used to think "What shall we do today?" in to an unrewarding list of hoops to jump through for rewards that I don't care about. Seriously, let us engage with your content as we want to, not as you think we should. I don't think I'm going to bother completing the fissures, asking us to do 100 of anything is 75 too many.

[BlackSharkfr]

Il y a 15 heures, Sin1989 a dit :

Uhhhhhhhhhh..... Are we supposed to be able to throw the coolant canisters like a grenade, which makes them explode????  Because right now, hitting Alt-Fire with your secondary weapon equipped makes you do just that. Atleast, assuming your secondary doesnt have an alt-fire.. i dunno how it would work if it does.   Either way, I really hope this isn't intended, especially since we need to seal 4 fissures with a single canister to get Diluted Thermia...

I encountered the same uuuh... "feature".
I was using a secondary weapon with an alternate fire mode, pressed the alt-fire key, and saw with horror my character throwing away the canister which I had just painfully been trying to fill up.

I hope this "feature" was unintentional and will be removed.

 

EDIT : I like the idea of throwing canisters at enemies if there were any noticeable effect (like a huge 15m radius blast or freeze for example).

The idea could be reused for an other scenario, example :

It's a hot climate (Venus far away from coolant towers, survival on a hot planet like Mercury, or inside a running reactor), you need to gather a constant stream of canisters in order to stay alive, so do enemies so all enemies carry with them a coolant canister in their backpack, so the battlefield is littered with these canisters from dead enemies.
Players can grab that canister and throw them at enemies and cause a big freeze status effect in the area where the canister exploded.

But it is NOT a good idea to destroy the key item of a quest.
If this "feature" were to stay, I suggest to disable the throwing mechanic as soon as the canister get's it's first fill.

Edited March 10, 2019 by BlackSharkfr

[Yrkul]

From another thread:

7 hours ago, Yrkul said:

On 2019-03-08 at 4:36 AM, [DE]Helen said:

Thermia fractures are cracking open the surface of Venus, a consequence of Nef Anyo’s unrelenting greed. He’s willing to do whatever it takes for a quick profit, including putting the whole Orb Vallis at risk. By figuring out how to stop the Thermia fractures, you're able to earn these rewards:

• Operation Emblem
• Amalgam Mods x4
• Operation Sigil
• Opticor Vandal 

You get 1 point for each Thermia Fracture you close - if you close 4 Fractures with 1 Coolant canister, you get 3 bonus points (7 total)!

There's a slight problem with this part: The host migration in this event is really, really, really, really, really bad. Only twice have I been able to do this with others. The rest of the time I'm looking at a loading screen, get booted back to the Liset, looking at a loading screen, arrives at the site only to be greeted with a host migration message, then get booted back to the Liset, looking at a loading screen... again and again and again and again and again.....

I probably have to solo it, which apparently the event is not designed for.

On top of that, the scavenger hunt is downright stupid. The majority of the scans are in rather obscure places, which basically isn't bad. What DOES make this dumb, is the IMMENSE area players will have to comb through to find all of them. Luckily someone else found the locations, turning this part of the event from an outright pain into a mere annoyance.

Colour me unimpressed.

Right now I'm closing fractures solo. It is tedious. It is stressfull. It is tiring. The incessant mob spam and CC is really frustrating, and I'm not able to see most of the mobs due to the screen being filled with particle effects, several mob types are wizzing through the air or hiding in the vegetation, or terrain is forcing the camera to an angle, where my warframe, sentinel or active pizzas block large parts of my view. It is causing eye strain and head ache.

This. Is. Not. Fun.

[CharlyO13]

If the hashes is a community thing theres no way it will be completed and it'll be sad of we miss out because of this

[Ham_Grenabe]

Eh, DE will magically finish it for everyone if we don't (or maybe not! That would be interesting -- "sorry, you didn't finish it, so...you don't get the next phase"). I've only found 4 of them, and given that they're teeny-weeny objects stuck to random surfaces in a huge open world, I'm not going out of my way. I have a map with all the locations, but still. 

[CandyManCriminal]

love the event, but while i enjoy the community goal in theory... in practice its making me impatient 

so please... everyone
follow this guide and get scanning

Spoiler

https://arg.solarisunited.xyz/buried-debts/data-hashes

 

[Ulex135]

My feedback on the current event.

The fissure closing, while repetitive, did feel rewarding as I unlocked new mods and a weapon as well as activating a booster for the entire zone.  All in all I wouldn't mind seeing it return as long as the number of fissures was lowered drastically.  To perhaps 50 or so.  Maybe lower.

The new limbo skin is interesting and while I haven't bought it yet, I would like the option to use it with Staticor if it would be possible.

The biggest problem with the whole event however is with the Buried Debts event itself which was made all the worse with Hildryn being added.  I understand that this is the newest lore event added to the game but the fact that a community style Easter egg hunt has been made mandatory to proceed a problem.  It however got turned into an actual mistake by adding Hildryn to the mix.  Let me explain.

While adding a community event to open up the next lore section of the game may be an interesting event, the event itself has to be popular enough to drive players to complete it or the lore itself has to be interesting enough to want people to unlock it.  Only a very small sub-section of players will actively go out and find them all.  Which is fine normally, as anyone else interested can just watch a guide to find all the items when they feel like it. Putting this new story segment behind a "X number of players have to be ready for this event" is fine as long at the community can reach this goal in a timely manner.  If they can't then it is a flop.

What is actively working against this event is the inclusion of Hildryn. Players know that Hildryn is the reward for fighting this new boss. So the players that actually purchases Hildryn from the store have no reason to go through with this event. In fact they have now more reasons not to do the event then they do for finishing it.  If they finish the event they unlock a new boss with loot that they already have (yes there is the new cosmetic too but that has a 2-4% drop chance and they know it).  If they don't do the event then their purchases of Hildryn more valuable.  As they know that only a smaller subsection of the fans has this new Warframe, and that by not doing it they are keeping Hildryn exclusive to them.  And while the majority of players are not malicious enough to plan this out, they are lazy enough to ignore this event after getting Hildryn because they don't care.  And not realize the problem they are giving to other players.  All in all this has all the ingredients to bring about a division in the fan base.

Other then that unintentional mistake I feel this mainline update started off rather blandly but will lead to interesting developments down the line when it is all revealed in it's entirety. 

 

Thanks again for all your hard work.

Ulex135

[--END--Rikutatis]

Please do not listen to these more vocal complainers asking for quest markers, hand holding and for WF to be exactly like any other watered down AAA game out there. Continue to do your own thing. This is what makes WF stand out from the crowd, Steve said as much in that Noclip documentary: no matter how good the new player experience is, WF is just not for everyone due to the complexity and lack of hand holding in parts. 

I enjoy figuring things out, it's usually a community effort, the first day of an event is always interesting when you're trying to figure out what to do. If you pay attention and look for it, the clues are always there. There's no need for more dumbed down hand holding and quest markers telling you every single thing you have to do as if we were braindead. 

With that said, here's my specific feedback:

1) The Fractures: I really enjoyed this part. I much prefer this horde mode endless style gameplay with mid range level enemies than doing a bunch of low lvl bounties like Ghoul Purge. 100 points was very fair for the amount and quality of rewards we got from this. That's around 14 complete runs of 4 fractures with the same canister, which is just a bit longer than a regular mobile defense mission and more fun IMO. Honestly, that's 2 nights worth of grinding, there's absolutely no reason for people to be complain it's too grindy. 

2) The data-hashes: I like the idea behind this, the community effort to crack the codes, (the original Fortuna ARG was amazing, I love this kind of stuff). It's just that the actual gameplay of going around this huge map looking for 16 tiny objects is a bit tiresome. I'm sure there might be other people who enjoy this, but maybe if the data hashes gave off some sort of sound or something like hidden caches in bounties it'd have been easier. 

 

[WarriorSoundwave]

I will start off by saying that locking Hildryn behind a time gate is not a good way to go. I personally bought her but only because I buy everything but if I hadn't bought her and couldn't I'd be a little upset as well. I don't mind waiting a little bit for the second part of the event to come because it gives me a chance to digest the new content we got but because the event wasn't very clearly stated that people need to go and scan stuff to unlock the next part, it will take really long. I don't like waiting for other people and relying on them to do their part. As for the Thermia Fractures, they were in fact grindy and boring however I will say that it was easier to do because it felt rewarding getting Opticor Vandal. Having to work to get the Opticor Vandal made it feel more special and valuable. Since I have Hildryn already, I'm hoping there will be other cool rewards to get and not just a Toroid and an articula. 

One positive thing to say about the event is that you guys actually physically updated the map to add in Deck 12. I think that alone is what is making me excited for the event. I really like to explore so it will be cool to get to go to Deck 12 when it is unlocked.   

[JMP3]

So, once I learned what to do, I think the event task itself is fine, barring bugs. I agree with a lot of what I've seen on the first page here, but here are my personal issues with the event: the actual event task and the community goal are unrelated, Hildryn is currently only available to those who pay platinum, each player can only contribute to the goal once, there is no immediate incentive or reward to contribute, and th progression of the goal doesn't make sense in-universe. 

Unrelated: Eudico tasks us with closing fissures and collecting material for a fight with the Exploiter Orb. We can also purely coincidentally stumble across 16 data-pads scattered across the Vallis. I have scanned them all. The dialogue doesn't relate to the event. 

Hildryn: Why release her at all if her parts are unobtainable? Why couldn't she have been released with the new boss fight? Or have her tied into the event so players can grind for her? 

Contribution: I have scanned all 16 data-hashes. Now what? I sit and wait and hope the community knows and cares about them? I am not a content creator. I am the last person in my friend group to know about these. I have no platform to spread the word. There is nothing more I can contribute when I would like to keep helping. The weekend wars were a fantastic idea. A goal for players to work on that tied into normal gameplay. 

Reward: Speaks for itself mostly. Nothing is received for completing this task. No weapons, skins, badge, or even a codex entry. Just a locked door and a "Wait and see". Lore entries for all the hashes would have been great. Anything to learn more about the world.

In-game story: Our Tenno decides "hey let's go looking in the Vallis for stuff" and stumbles upon 16 data-hashes and a locked door. Eudico tasks us with deciphering the gylphs we apparently got open said door. How do we do this? Magic? This goes back to only being able to contribute once

My suggestion: a unique enemy that only spawns when closing fractures. Upon defeat, it drops a resource that Eudico says could help decipher the glyphs and asks you to get as many as you can. This contributes to a single goal of "decipher the code" rather than 16 individual goals that need to be met. This way players can work towards two goals: Opticor Vandal and the door. 

[Pediastrum]

my feed back.

 

-Fractures

too long,too buggy. often lost canister in progress by bug/host-changing failure.

I feel bad about say that... but it’s so boring.

Why not halve the time? or Allow shortened if the player inserts additional cells.

 

and, one more problem on co-op.

There are leachers who are fishing for themselves(NW challenge) by leaving the mission progress to other co-op member.

I think that it would be better to stop holding at the same time OW event misson & Nightwave "get rare somethings" challenge.

 

-data-hashes

It is hard to understand what to do.

what to do? where data hases? what is reward?  Too insufficient explanation.

[Nekothika]

Bug : I didn't receive one mod :

 

 

Serration (for non-french speakers ^^) of course I finished all 100 Thermia :

 

[AltheusV]

15 hours ago, CharlyO13 said:

If the hashes is a community thing theres no way it will be completed and it'll be sad of we miss out because of this

I've done all 16 and feel like a mug for having done it. If enough of us stand together and say no, we're not going to jump through this hoop, we'll take the hit then things might change. If we don't then we're going to get more and more things like this.

[BrazilianJoe]

1. EVENT MISSION SELECTION ON EUDICO to make public teams easily agree on doing the event. If I want to fish, I don't want to be called names or a leecher. 

2. Canister is a VIP object. The most recently picked up canisters and partially finished canisters should be marked to not despawn when the dropped loot limit is reached and old loot is despawned.

3. When 2 Thermia fractures spawn too close to  each other, sometimes the wrong one is closed, and the other becomes uncloseable. 

4. Scavenging data hashes is not a super-fun task. Impossible without an internet guide, annoying with it. You should have done  "quill/spiritual conservation", leveraging conservation/hunting mechanics to chase down ghosts/memories that lead to each data cache.

 

 

[Etzu]

The Thermia fracture event is very cool.

The data-hash scanning is cool too but there is a major problem, people seems to not really understand how to process nor the importance of it. Right now we made 5% progress at minimum during friday, 5% during saturday and 2% during sunday. With that ratio we won't reach the 100% before the end of the two weeks of event.

[Kuldor]

7 minutes ago, Etzu said:

The data-hash scanning is cool too but there is a major problem, people seems to not really understand how to process nor the importance of it. Right now we made 5% progress at minimum during friday, 5% during saturday and 2% during sunday. With that ratio we won't reach the 100% before the end of the two weeks of event.

It doesn't matter, at all.

 

Do you really think if we don't get to 100% they won't release hildryn parts/the new boss? this is absolutely scripted and buried debts is just a timer, they will release it regardless of our contribution, they just never expected us to NOT get to 100% (edit: even if we don't get to 100%, the event will probably complete itself gradually during the last days, I'm not even sure if the current % is community based or scripted).

 

They are not going to work on something for months and then trash it because we didn't scan a tiny thing on the map. In other words, the importance of the event is next to 0.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Kuldor

[Ham_Grenabe]

30 minutes ago, Kuldor said:

It doesn't matter, at all.

 

Do you really think if we don't get to 100% they won't release hildryn parts/the new boss? this is absolutely scripted and buried debts is just a timer, they will release it regardless of our contribution, they just never expected us to NOT get to 100% (edit: even if we don't get to 100%, the event will probably complete itself gradually during the last days, I'm not even sure if the current % is community based or scripted).

 

They are not going to work on something for months and then trash it because we didn't scan a tiny thing on the map. In other words, the importance of the event is next to 0.

Agreed, they'll automagically complete the thing even if we don't (and that's good, because it's looking like the collective we isn't really interested). 

But it would be super interesting to see them just not release any more of the event if the community didn't finish. Just stick Hildryn parts behind Fortuna bounties (like Garuda) and and say "Nope, the rest of the event can't be unlocked. Maybe next time." 

Not that they could afford to do that. It would just be one of those "holy cow, the mad fools did it." 

[Softballbryan]

I really enjoyed everything so far. Makes for fun exploration in the open world. I had a fun group and we knocked some challenges out with a bit of difficulty thrown at us. I performed some of them solo as I mixed in other challenges in other parts of the game. I liked the drop chance increase for the new stance as I was grinding a lot for the mod. 

I like the nightwave series as well. I do think the beginning player will suffer without a change to wolf credits. They need more of them for the basics and cosmetics. That grind is too difficult for them at the moment.  

Keep adding all kinds of activities into your open worlds. Eventually, it will be filled with all kinds of challenges and rewards. Thank you for making a fun game better. I’m excited to see what you all create for us next. 

[Softballbryan]

17 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Agreed, they'll automagically complete the thing even if we don't (and that's good, because it's looking like the collective we isn't really interested). 

But it would be super interesting to see them just not release any more of the event if the community didn't finish. Just stick Hildryn parts behind Fortuna bounties (like Garuda) and and say "Nope, the rest of the event can't be unlocked. Maybe next time." 

Not that they could afford to do that. It would just be one of those "holy cow, the mad fools did it." 

I have no problem if they extend the lock until the players do enough of the scans....

[maddragonmaster]

um DE you said the scanning part wouldn't be done till next week and well it is Monday and we are still at 16%-17% minus one at 32% since that one is right smack dab in front of the entrence to orb vallis and since helios is popular with people since the normal scanning method not very popular or intuitive thats the reason thats at 32%.