(Update 24.4.0) OPERATION: Buried Debts Feedback Megathread

[Xyhon]

Can you - at DE - finally get the hint to actually make quest markers and explanation on what to do within quests? This lackluster attitude considering "go figure" is getting really old really fast. Being confused at what to do, and where to do it, is just bad game design. Also, how come we need to close 100 fissures to "complete" this event? Which is tedious chore, nothing fun to work with. Also, grind locking new frame - great choice of introduction to the game. You had previous feedback from countless players, complaining that grind is off scale and is boring - I had more fun doing endless T4 missions than going to OV to fight in this pseudo open world. How come you don't change routine from "go there, defend that for 5 mins, repeat" since this is the worst part this game has in open environment?

[mr_razorite]

This is my feedback on the current event, the point payout and variety: 

It would be a nice twist if each level of the coolant was a different type of mission, sort of like the bounties. I am at around 30ish points and I feel so burnt out already, the lack of variety is the cause for this I think. I feel like this could have been a bounty loosely set up like the following:

 

1) Capture/Spy/Case mission (where we the do a sort of retrieve the data or intel on these fractures, would of given some time and make sense for eudico voice lines talking about what we need to do)

2) Obtain the coolant (this could be as fast as it is now or could of involved a few waves if fighting those coolant raknoids till we get one)

3) The current defend the coolant (but its filled fully at the end)

4) A short defense (Preferably a different mission, as this is basically the current mission, but my brain isn't working) where we inject or siphon the filled coolant and get the new resource (or just have this be a 3 phase bounty ending at 3)

 

This would be my suggestion to make this feel at least a bit more varied/involved, as well as, or alternatively adding more ways of getting more points, like how the plague star catalyst etc. works (increase the difficulty as well as the reward.) These scans that are also related to the event could have tied in and given some points too, or at least one point for each scan.

I have no way of knowing if progression of the event will lead to more points but currently it looks like the only way to get the rewards is to do a bunch of these fractures this means (if my math is correct, using a full canister run as a baseline giving 7 points):

·         14 perfect full canister runs (and then 2 single part runs), this is also hard and unreliable with the current bug where the canister vanishes

·         The above translates too: 58 fracture defenses to get the full 100 points.
 

T.L.D.R: I personally feel like the event (in this current state) needs either some more verity or a way to tune the difficulty (similar to plague star) therefore increasing the point pay-out.

Edited March 8, 2019 by mr_razorite
typos

[Viges]

WE NEED NEW EVENT GUYS!

 

Do 100500 mobile defense missions on Orb Vallis?

Seems good - ship it!

🤣🤣

[jibaro87]

i find the rewards of the op very disappointing, totally not worth getting any of them, if the mods where equal but with added speed i could dig that but they are all a tiny bit worse, and the opticor is just a "not as good" ferrox, realy i rather keep farming the usual stuff than getting any of this

[SordidDreams]

I actually really enjoyed the lack of direction with regard to the fractures, I like that it doesn't clutter your screen with waypoints.

I approached a fracture and Eudico told me to find a coolant raknoid. I ran around a bit, didn't find one, approached the fracture again to hopefully get more info. Eudico said something about Exploiter and her coolant raknoids, so that's when it clicked for me that I should probably check near the big beastie. This kind of subtle direction is much better than, say, Lotus spamming out waypoints when offering an incursion (RIP).

The actual fracture mission, though... it's basically mobile defense. I think we have enough of those everywhere else in the game.

Edited March 9, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Chaosprism]

I think the rifts themselves SHOULD deal a small amount of heat damage to friend or foe standing directly on top of it, just a continuous small amount of heat damage.

Should deal damage even to limboed things since the rift is taken into limbo also.

[CaffeineTanuki]

I love the new feel of "fighting the big man" with this new event. really feels like we're saying screw you to Neffy

Edited March 9, 2019 by Skyward_Knight

[Sennera]

 

4 hours ago, mr_razorite said:

It would be a nice twist if each level of the coolant was a different type of mission, sort of like the bounties. I am at around 30ish points and I feel so burnt out already, the lack of variety is the cause for this I think. I feel like this could have been a bounty loosely set up like the following:

I'm going to borrow this real quick to emphasize a point here. This has been a recurring complaint for a long time about Orb Vallis content, it's seriously getting out of hand. Someone needs to print out a few banners with that bolded sentence and pin them up in various places around DE's office because the message does not seem to be getting through yet.

This is just like ye olde void fatigue. STOP trying to push content onto us that revolves around missions with no variety that we have to run for hours at a time. Yes, we get it, you don't want us to complete the event in a single hour. The one not getting things here is you: if the content cannot fill more than a single hour, then requiring it to be run for many more hours does not make it better, it makes it worse. Our complaints are objectively valid because you are intentionally bloating the game in a half-assed attempt to prolong events such as these, and the grinds related to newer content.

One of the nice things about older Warframe content is that I can spend a couple hours accomplishing something, then go do something else entirely in the game right after so that I don't burn out. The amount of grind Orb Vallis content requires means dedicating myself to Orb Vallis. You have this great big game and you're settings things up so that we have to focus on this tiny chunk instead of playing all that other great content elsewhere in it. If you wanted that to work, you should've made sure Orb Vallis was quality enough content that it would've beaten Warframe's active user count on Steam if it were released standalone.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Sennera

[Rallarman]

7 hours ago, jibaro87 said:

i find the rewards of the op very disappointing, totally not worth getting any of them, if the mods where equal but with added speed i could dig that but they are all a tiny bit worse, and the opticor is just a "not as good" ferrox, realy i rather keep farming the usual stuff than getting any of this

Gotto agree 100%. Only reason to do it is to get weapon for MR fodder.

[Xorxe]

This supergrindy event broke me (again). I need another year off of Warframe (again). See ya in Xmass

[Ssalem]

At the risk of sounding seriously negative, I still have to say, I think this Operation was a mistake

No, I flat out refuse to close 100 fractures. It's absurd. Or 56, if the stars align and everything goes well, nothing bugs out, no canisters disappear or get destroyed etc. But since this event lasts for like 2 weeks, let's assume you only do one run a day. It still doesn't become any more fun. It's a chore.

This event is like a Sia's song, expecting your playerbase to literally bang their head against a wall. Repeatedly. Over and over and over again, until their brain matter starts leaking through their their ears and they lose consciousness.

No, thank you.

[kazeyama]

This event was pretty awful so far. I finished to 100 points playing solo and it was a tremendous grind. The touted difficulty of this operation was simply due to throwing a million guys at you that isn't really difficult it is either going to vary between frustration or boredom. Basically I sat in my frost bubble for hours on end and maybe once or twice per run I would get one shot by a jackal or killed by a spider but that was the extent of the difficulty. 

I'm also not looking forward to phase two if it involves anything resembling the other orb taker fight which remains maybe my least favorite thing to do in the game. 

Things that could have been done better. First ship it without bugs. Whatever deadlines or promises you had to ship it I dunno how the disappearing canister bug wasn't found before hand when it happened to me nearly every time the first day of the event. It only took you guys a day to fix it but that was a very frustrating day of grinding. There is no variety to this. Previous operations I could have sworn that every interval of 25 points you would get an escalation or maybe something new to do or a different mission type or something. I'm assuming the boss fight is going to be the escalation but there should have been at least another tier or two to break things up. Make the first 25 points spy type missions in the temple of profit, then maybe an extermination or miniboss type mission to assassinate the coolant raknoids and collect the canisters and finally then the last 25 points be the defending fissures part. 

This could have made it much more diverse over time and reduced some of the tedium if you could fly straight to a fissure and start defending instead of having to go back and forth to kill a raknoid every time just make coolant canister a gear item from an earlier stage. 

[MingCR]

This yellow stuff that fills up the coolant canister... could you make it a mission reward for the whole squad, kinda like bountie rewards? The first day of this event I didn't even know it existed and therefore never picked it up. Now that I know of it, I am standing above the canister when it's at 98%, pressing x like a madman because I don't know if more than one person can even get the reward.

 

Furthermore, please speed up the progression. If you don't get oneshot (frustrating) before placing the snowglobe, it is one of the most boring things in the game.

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, Mingcrusher said:

I don't know if more than one person can even get the reward.

The reward is distributed to everyone in the squad regardless of how far away they are. Which is really nice, they could've easily done that so that you had to be nearby to receive the reward (*cough* synthesis target *cough*); I'm glad that's not the case.

Edited March 9, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Gambloide-PC]

-

Edited March 9, 2019 by Gambloide-PC
my mistakes

[Elyann]

I am sorry but I am not enjoying the event either so far.

I can understand the 'community effort' thing but I would have liked to know what I am supposed to do without having to rely on the Reddit....still, just my personal taste about this part of the matter. 

Second point. Due to the 'secret' nature of this event the players didn't even get an option to queue specifically for its mission ( aka close fractures ) thus making it more problematic for the community to organize and run the event with a party ( people without a clan or active friends are forced to keep on using recruit chat or run solo....which is not a tragedy but it's still a minor inconvenient ). 

Third point. Unless ran in group the event can be rather hard to complete without having to use some specific frames ( defense / mobile defense specific frames such as Frost / Gara / Mesa / ecc ) due to how hard it is to defend a fracture from constant Corpus troopers spawns , especially when they will keep shooting at the player and at the fracture from a 360° radius ( covers are not so accessible in the Vallis ) ; I also don't like the fact it's not newbie friendly too as I am sure the new players would love to take part in one of the game's events and having them feel excluded is not the right idea.

Fourth point. It really takes a lot of time  to seal a fracture , having to do it so many times is not fun and it gets instead rather tedious after a while. Besides, fractures are extremely bright and it gets hard to see when the player is nearby one of them , they honestly hurt my eyes.

Fifth point. As some people have already stated before me this trend of locking a frame's components behind a syndacate's standing is not fun ; I am completely set talking about Fortuna's syndacates but I remember how painful it was for me to rank up both with those and with Cetus' ones. People don't like syndacates, there are too many of them already, please take the hint.


I am looking forward towards seeing the rest of the event and I want to be positive and hope it will be better than this first part.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Elyann

[tobascodagama]

So is the INTENDED solution to the data hast hunt that we either wander around at random hoping Helios scans them all for us or else look up a spoiler map that marks out all the locations? Because for the kuria hunts and fishes, that was fine, if a bit irritating. But for an actual event, it's pretty #*!%ing stupid.

[Siekier]

Thermia Fractures are quite possibly the worst event I've seen in Warframe, and I'm here since Update 9.

It's incredibly boring, not creative in any way. Just sitting in the Orb Vallis, watching over the 3 min timer and hoping that some game breaking bug won't slow down your progress.

It's not difficult, it's not interesting. It's the most basic, braindead type of grind that gives me flashbacks from The Gradivus Dilemma.

 

In fact, doing it feels like a chore. Just a moment ago, I've had a situation in which after the host migration my half-used coolant turned into brand new one (I've closed 2 fractures using this very coolant before the host migration) and to top it all off, I couldn't even start sealing another fracture because every time I tried, I got one of two messages pop up on my screen.

"Clear the area of enemies" - Great, what enemies? There's no visible enemies anywhere nearby.

"Finish your current objective" - What objective, I don't have a current objective because I can't even start sealing the damn fracture.

It's inredibly annoying to say the least.

 

I am very disappointed in this event. There have been tactical alerts that were much more fun than this pseudo-event waste of time.

[Vomitous]

Between coolant disappearing, new occurrences of old bugs(how many times does the 'MOAs shooting outside of cataclysm are damaging things inside cataclysm' need to be fixed?), lack of information to get started, deliberate misinformation on the web, and how unbalanced the event itself is, on a *good* series of runs I'm tracking about 10 minutes per fracture.

Was this event really designed to be run for almost 20 hours? 20 hours of mobile defense with cumulative consequences so you feel more and more stressed out as you get to the third and fourth fractures, wondering if this is going to be the one that spawns a pile of spiders and instant-fails you, destroying your chance for some slight bonus to mitigate how awful you're feeling doing this?

Oh, right, maybe you forgot solo players exist again. My bad. Sorry about the tone. I was hoping to knock this out this weekend. Seems that's not going to happen.

Edit: For anyone reading this thread who's stuck in the same situation, forget defense. I switched over to an offensive frame/kit and you're able to drop alert rate quickly if you murder everything, which makes the the mission itself somewhat bearable.

Bonus: I thought the canister despawned or bugged out when you accidentally drop it from Archwing(which is all set up to happen in the new system where you drop things for what seems like any reason) - this time when I dropped one(for the sin of zooming my weapon to look at something) I watched it go down and it has a nice explosion effect! In my imagination, 'This event doesn't feel arduous enough, lets have the coolant designed to explode.' was uttered around a whiteboard somewhere.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Vomitous

[Ecnemalas]

Hi everyone! So this is a perspective of a solo/mid experience player (350 days).

I feel like it could have been done much better. The idea is there, but the execution is not great.

1. Rewards: 100 points is simply too much. I am at 42 right now and honestly a little fed up. Solution? Decrease number of fractures to close to 50, give an amalgam mod every 10 and Opticor at 50. The glyphs can be a reward for scanning the hidden data thingies, as right now I  have no motivation to look for them. I tried, even with the marked map, and still could not find anything in 3 of the supposed locations. I wonder how long would it take for enough players to scan the data if you didn't send out the hints to partners.

2. Difficulty: there is none that warrants the warning on the announcement page. It's a bunch of mobile defences, extremely easy to solo with Octavia.

3. Fracture locations: maybe there is already a map of possible locations, as they clearly recur in some cases, but boy is it painful the first few times to find any, especially on foot. I was hesitant to use Archwing at the beginning, as it usually crashes the game on PoE immediately, but somehow Fortuna must be much better optimized. However, some people with even weaker rigs than mine probably have problems with flying in Orb Vallis. Solution: after getting the coolant/closing a fracture you could get a transmission from Eudico that an "Emergency thermal scan is being performed, but oh no, Nef is jamming us, quick take note where the fractures are!" and the locations flash on the map for 5 seconds or so. You can even add a timer to get there to add a sense of urgency instead of a walking simulator.

4. Repetition. Mobile defences. 14 4-fissure runs and some change for the Opticor. 60+ times the same mobile defence. Quite a long one at that, or at least it feels long. How about some variety: a fissure closes almost immediately, but canister is snatched by a large raknoid you have to capture, or a bunch of spiders explode from underground, throw you back, and you have a small horde extermination on your plate to reach the canister, or one of those irritating Jackal-types, a high level one, shows up for an assasination before you can proceed. There really is some room for variety, plus the difficulty can be increased easily with a non-defence mission. I guess we don't have the lore yet, but why can't the Corpus want to steal our canisters rahter than simply destroy them?

I didn't really find any bugs, other than few Corpus melee fanatics ignoring my mallet and getting stuck in the fracture, hacking away at it quite effectively. Oh, and I agree with some people that said the fractures probably should cause heat damage.

In conclusion: I get that you don't want us to rush the content, but this is not the main dish, right? People who want to challenge the next boss will still farm the resource from fractures, others just want a new shiny weapon. I feel like both groups would be happier with some variety and streamlining. Not handholding, just a little help in locating the fractures and maybe the data as well. Polish it a little before console release and you have a nice recurring world event.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Ecnemalas
Spelling :)

[Lokidus_Prime]

Uhhhhhhhhhh..... Are we supposed to be able to throw the coolant canisters like a grenade, which makes them explode????  Because right now, hitting Alt-Fire with your secondary weapon equipped makes you do just that. Atleast, assuming your secondary doesnt have an alt-fire.. i dunno how it would work if it does.   Either way, I really hope this isn't intended, especially since we need to seal 4 fissures with a single canister to get Diluted Thermia...

Edited March 10, 2019 by Sin1989

[WarriorSoundwave]

So about the Jackal PBR treatment. You guys forgot to update the textures for the Jackal in his resting/powered off mode. The PBR textures only go into effect when the boss fight is actually started. Could we see the powered off Jackal get the PBR treatment as well?

[Ham_Grenabe]

This event seems to be a pretty standard setup for Warframe: go do something a hundred / thousand / million times, and we'll count progress on a percentage scale. 

For future community events, I'd like to make just a suggestion on top of the others here (like "vary mission type" and "fix bugs first"): please let it be more than ticking a percentage on a meter in a groundhog-day environment.

For example, in the Thermia Fracture event, we're closing and reclosing the same fractures, to tick a percentage on a board. If, instead, we were pushing back the tide, and we had an actual sense that we did something, I'd be a ton more into it. Imagine if we got to the Orb Vallis and the sky glowed orange and the place was melting. The map is tinted red. And every time we closed a fracture, we pushed away the red from that map. We can see where it's getting worse, where people aren't hitting the fractures, and we can go there to help. What if it actually felt like we were saving the place?

Imagine if we had to do more than just close fractures. We had to assault manufacturing stations for the coolant raknoids. Capture corpus engineers. Plant bombs. Sabotage guidance systems so the spider droids inject coolant into hotspots instead of sucking out the thermia fracture like they're supposed to. Eliminating camps, hijacking coolant shipments. Hell, we could even be out hunting animals to save them from burning up out there, gaining a little percentage toward the event completion for each successful hunt. You have a lot of mission types to play with, but in this event we're doing one. I would love for Eudico to throw something different at us each time we go out there. Sometimes it's "we've got fractures here, here, and here," and other times it's "blow up this enemy convoy." 

Obviously, somewhere deep in you're still counting the percentage until we're done, and so you'll have thousands and thousands of players at work on it, so it's a tiny percentage from any one player. But if you're doing a lot of different stuff to contribute, and the progress is more visual than a percent-complete bar, it might feel a lot more engaging and like something people want to do. 

[Guru-Tata]

Along with the  accurate counters being desperately needed, there has to be some type of limits like Cetus uses before you go out on the plains for this event. Players are randoming into groups using whats in navigation, then are kept in mission by the rest of the group past four canisters.  Which in most cases the players quits the 'mission' and loses everything from griefing. Unless they go as a group or clan members - You don't go out on the plains without a bounty or select an Eidolon mission. So there's a limit and something in place somewhat ruley to keep peeps respectable to each other. That's not happening here, especially it being a weekend with the flood of youngilings.

[Ham_Grenabe]

8 minutes ago, Guru-Tata said:

Along with the  accurate counters being desperately needed, there has to be some type of limits like Cetus uses before you go out on the plains for this event. Players are randoming into groups using whats in navigation, then are kept in mission by the rest of the group past four canisters.  Which in most cases the players quits the 'mission' and loses everything from griefing. Unless they go as a group or clan members - You don't go out on the plains without a bounty or select an Eidolon mission. So there's a limit and something in place somewhat ruley to keep peeps respectable to each other. That's not happening here, especially it being a weekend with the flood of youngilings.

I thought the other day that it would be nice to have had a "Thermic Fracture" bounty (e.g., "Seal 4 Fractures") available so that everyone knows what's up when they go out into the Orb Vallis. It was a great thing to add to the Eidolon hunts.