Here are the Opticor Vandal Stats

[bibmobello]

I am starting to think people would like the nuke from turok more than an opticor...

[Damocles]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Here is your RW reference.

Opticor:  50 Cal (Browning M2)

Opticor Vandal:  SAWs

Ask a frontline Army Vet to explain the difference, good and bad.  Sometimes evolved “utility” doesn’t mean increased effectiveness as intended.

Players wanted a streamlined M2 and got the 7.62 rd SAW variant, and we have plenty of bullet-hoses in the game.

Weird flex but Saw's are automatic though. I'd rather say it feels like an M82A1 50 cal being neutered down to a "Semi Automatic" AWP L96. A less powerful but more mission effective L96 does not represent the anti-material capabilities of the Berrett in any case. In this video game, (particularly this one particular gun) we want to expand on the impractical nature of the weapon, not the feasible operation of it which most other gun options out there already fills that role 6 ways from sunday.

[-AiLuoLi-]

Make it into ferrox vandal and remove opticor. Everyone's happy.

[bibmobello]

5 minutes ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

Make it into ferrox vandal and remove opticor. Everyone's happy.

This will never happen. They can just create an Opticor Prime... It  sounds familiar...

Edited March 10, 2019 by bibmobello

[Damocles]

4 minutes ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

Make it into ferrox vandal and remove opticor. Everyone's happy.

you mean remove Opticor Vandal right? Yes that would make me happy to not have the name-spot occupied by 🚮

[Scruffel]

Easy solution:

Let the Opticor Vandal charge over it's 0.6s up to 2.0s in which at that point, it will do the same or slightly more damage as the original Opticor ( and between those charging times, it will do appropriate amounts of damage based on how much was charged).

Now you have a significantly better Opticor with the option to shoot it earlier for some lesser damage. Seems good right?

[Dariel]

Propose to rename Opticor Vandal to just VANDAL.

Opticor by definition is one shot nuke aka  IMMAFIRINGMAHLAZAR!!!!
Vandal variant on the other hand is more of a laser blaster. Higher fire rate and lower damage is not what defines opticor.

Opticor vandal is (arguably) the first weapon in WF that Vandalized the original. 
Hence name: Vandal

[Althaline]

14 minutes ago, Scruffel said:

Easy solution:

Let the Opticor Vandal charge over it's 0.6s up to 2.0s in which at that point, it will do the same or slightly more damage as the original Opticor ( and between those charging times, it will do appropriate amounts of damage based on how much was charged).

Now you have a significantly better Opticor with the option to shoot it earlier for some lesser damage. Seems good right?

Actually, I wouldn't mind using the alt-fire to swap between fast fire and long charge. That's a good fix.

[Chappie]

34 minutes ago, Scruffel said:

Easy solution:

Let the Opticor Vandal charge over it's 0.6s up to 2.0s in which at that point, it will do the same or slightly more damage as the original Opticor ( and between those charging times, it will do appropriate amounts of damage based on how much was charged).

Now you have a significantly better Opticor with the option to shoot it earlier for some lesser damage. Seems good right?

The current opticor vandal has ~2x the DPS of the original opticor when comparing appropriate (and correct) meta builds.     So...no, if we allowed that the vandal would have 3x or 4x the DPS of the original.  

The gun fire rate is different..that faster fire rate changes how the gun SHOULD be used and not how you want to use it.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Chappie1975

[Damocles]

5 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

The current opticor vandal has `2x the DPS of the original opticor when comparing appropriate (and correct) meta builds.     So...no, if we allowed that the vandal would have 3x or 4x the DPS of the original.  

Did you consider the meta builds for OG opticor with vile acceleration? All of the fire rate you need, while having 2.5x the base damage. It's like Primed^2 Chamber but for Opticor Vandal to come from OG Opticor at the expense of the slot vile accel chamber takes up. No other mod exists that would give Vandal 2.5 times damage for the slot you saved form not using fire rate mods.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Descent-of-Damocles
Clarification and confusing ordering

[(PSN)Silverback73]

52 minutes ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

Weird flex but Saw's are automatic though. I'd rather say it feels like an M82A1 50 cal being neutered down to a "Semi Automatic" AWP L96. A less powerful but more mission effective L96 does not represent the anti-material capabilities of the Berrett in any case. In this video game, (particularly this one particular gun) we want to expand on the impractical nature of the weapon, not the feasible operation of it which most other gun options out there already fills that role 6 ways from sunday.

Right, but the AoE substitutes for automatic fire for both examples (M2 50 cal vs SAWs).

SAWs throw more rounds downwind, but won’t punch through concrete and demolish light armor and buildings like a 50 cal round.

So basically the Vandal is a SAW-great for MOBS up to about 45 minutes, not a true upgrade to the Opticor as a competitor to the Sniper Rifles that get heavy use against Eidelons.

 

 

 

[ligonare]

I feel like the opticor vandal does not deserve to be called an Opticor.

The Opticor is all about overkill: Big numbers, huge numbers, Death Star planetary laser numbers.

This variant feels off. I do not care for DPS. I do not care for efficiency with groups. I have my secondary for that.

Change the charge time if you have to, just give me my huge base damage back. #notanotherFerrox 

[Leyers_of_facade]

10 minutes ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

Did you consider the meta builds for OG opticor with vile acceleration? All of the fire rate you need, while having 2.5x the base damage. It's like Primed^2 Chamber but for Opticor Vandal to come from OG Opticor at the expense of the slot vile accel chamber takes up. No other mod exists that would give Vandal 2.5 times damage for the slot you saved form not using fire rate mods.

There is a few things you didn't consider.

1) Vile acceleration gives -15% damage as a penalty, even if its impact isn't much, you shouldn't ignore it when doing calculations as such

2) Even with vile acceleration, your charge time is 1.05, compared to 0.6 on vandal. This means I can roughly dish out a full charged shot and a 2/3 charged shot in the time that it takes for you to make a full charge shot. Alternatively, you can consider it as roughly how in the time I make a full charge shot on opticor vandal, you can only dish out a bit over half charge on normal opticor, taking into consideration the -15% damage as well, you should only compare roughly 480-500 on base opticor to 400 on vandal. Do take in mind that a simple 90 elemental mod already more or less puts them at par by this point, this is even before we take crit chance buff, increase in crit multiplier, increase in status chance, larger mag, quicker reload... etc

Honestly, stop comparing base opticor and vandal in terms of dps, because vandal wins it and I think most people already mentioned that above. That being said, it could still take a buff in its base damage, perhaps to 50% or 60% of base opticor instead of just 40%.

I personally half-charge shots a lot on normal opticor and use spring-loaded chamber instead of vile acceleration due to having the habit of constant reloading / using reload to reset charge so vandal feels like what I usually use anyway, that being said, the issue people have with vandal is probably that it just doesn't feel quite like opticor, and to be honest I am undecided on whether that is true.

[Damocles]

5 minutes ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

There is a few things you didn't consider.

1) Vile acceleration gives -15% damage as a penalty, even if its impact isn't much, you shouldn't ignore it when doing calculations as such

2) Even with vile acceleration, your charge time is 1.05, compared to 0.6 on vandal. This means I can roughly dish out a full charged shot and a 2/3 charged shot in the time that it takes for you to make a full charge shot. Alternatively, you can consider it as roughly how in the time I make a full charge shot on opticor vandal, you can only dish out a bit over half charge on normal opticor, taking into consideration the -15% damage as well, you should only compare roughly 480-500 on base opticor to 400 on vandal. Do take in mind that a simple 90 elemental mod already more or less puts them at par by this point, this is even before we take crit chance buff, increase in crit multiplier, increase in status chance, larger mag, quicker reload... etc

Honestly, stop comparing base opticor and vandal in terms of dps, because vandal wins it and I think most people already mentioned that above. That being said, it could still take a buff in its base damage, perhaps to 50% or 60% of base opticor instead of just 40%.

I personally half-charge shots a lot on normal opticor and use spring-loaded chamber instead of vile acceleration due to having the habit of constant reloading / using reload to reset charge so vandal feels like what I usually use anyway, that being said, the issue people have with vandal is probably that it just doesn't feel quite like opticor, and to be honest I am undecided on whether that is true.

1) 15% damage, is nothing compared to the fact you add serration and heavy cal for 300%+ damage (400% total). It behaves proportionally so yes it can be ommited as a slightly better riven roll would do you the same justice.
2) As everyone in here seems to agree on, we don't really care for DPS (like the case we dont care about status on a crit weapon) if we wanted DPS, we have literally a gun that does exponential damage starting with over a million damage on the second shot (wink wink). All we want is a bigger damage number Opticor at the expense of charge time. Also from my build my OG opticor is 33k modded dmg with 15k on vandal... Going into testing in simulacrum, yes vandal is still faster, but at half charged OG, I can get similar fir rate results that lag behind vandal, but isn't noticeable nor valueble in the sense I can preserve the Full charge option being available to me, and being able to 1 shot enemies as opposed to performing a makeup shot for enemies that survive. Besides, how often do you find yourself continuously spamming Opticor anyways?

[Zeclem]

gun did not lose its identity, it'll still murder most targets in one hit. if what you wanted are big numbers, you would play snipers not opticor since opticor doesnt just get one big number, not with its aoe. i used that gun because i liked drowning corridors in a flash of a thicc beam of destruction, and now with vandal i'll get to do it a lot more frequently.

so all those vandal opposers who keep claiming the gun lost its identity, speak for yourselves. for me and many others, guns main strength(and actual identity) which is the thicc beam of destruction got a lot better. 

[Leyers_of_facade]

11 minutes ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

1) 15% damage, is nothing compared to the fact you add serration and heavy cal for 300%+ damage (400% total). It behaves proportionally so yes it can be ommited as a slightly better riven roll would do you the same justice.
2) As everyone in here seems to agree on, we don't really care for DPS (like the case we dont care about status on a crit weapon) if we wanted DPS, we have literally a gun that does exponential damage starting with over a million damage on the second shot (wink wink). All we want is a bigger damage number Opticor at the expense of charge time. Also from my build my OG opticor is 33k modded dmg with 15k on vandal... Going into testing in simulacrum, yes vandal is still faster, but at half charged OG, I can get similar fir rate results that lag behind vandal, but isn't noticeable nor valueble in the sense I can preserve the Full charge option being available to me, and being able to 1 shot enemies as opposed to performing a makeup shot for enemies that survive. Besides, how often do you find yourself continuously spamming Opticor anyways?

Well for starters, level 160 bombards can die in 1 shot, heavy gunners in 2, so most enemies aren't gonna survive my first shot anyway on vandal, plus its a gas build, so not only the one taking the hit is gonna die, probably a few of the others nearby too. In addition, level 160 is way higher than anything you will meet in sortie 3 and roughly just a bit over an hour on kuva survival. Although if I plan to do a >1 hour kuva survival, I would probably take someone like gara anyway, sooo not quite what I need anyway.

Besides, how often do you find yourself requiring a full shot to kill on normal opticor anyway? 

[Damocles]

8 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

gun did not lose its identity, it'll still murder most targets in one hit. if what you wanted are big numbers, you would play snipers not opticor since opticor doesnt just get one big number, not with its aoe. i used that gun because i liked drowning corridors in a flash of a thicc beam of destruction, and now with vandal i'll get to do it a lot more frequently.

so all those vandal opposers who keep claiming the gun lost its identity, speak for yourselves. for me and many others, guns main strength(and actual identity) which is the thicc beam of destruction got a lot better. 

Yes we'll keep it to ourselves. I agree that the vandal is easier to use, but I dont agree on using snipers. Snipers are not riven viable in the future from forecasting DE's pattern of disappointment and that AoE only affects the side mobs, so I'm not sure what you meant by that

[Damocles]

1 minute ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

Well for starters, level 160 bombards can die in 1 shot, heavy gunners in 2, so most enemies aren't gonna survive my first shot anyway on vandal, plus its a gas build, so not only the one taking the hit is gonna die, probably a few of the others nearby too. In addition, level 160 is way higher than anything you will meet in sortie 3 and roughly just a bit over an hour on kuva survival. Although if I plan to do a >1 hour kuva survival, I would probably take someone like gara anyway, sooo not quite what I need anyway.

Besides, how often do you find yourself requiring a full shot to kill on normal opticor anyway? 

wait send proof! I wanna know how I can get the same result

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

Yes we'll keep it to ourselves. I agree that the vandal is easier to use, but I dont agree on using snipers. Snipers are not riven viable in the future from forecasting DE's pattern of disappointment and that AoE only affects the side mobs, so I'm not sure what you meant by that

what i meant was people acting as if every single opticor users only wanted big and slow numbers. there are snipers for that. and snipers are very powerful, you dont need rivens for anything. 

also aoe isnt only the end explosion. every attack opticor has a very wide hitbox, therefore aoe. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Wrennah said:

This is not what people went to Opticor for.

The more I read all these "it betur doe cuz it shoot fastr n haz more dps" comments, the more I realize that the majority of people don't read. You are entirely missing the point, so I'll make it simple for you:

Braton Vandal - works like Braton, feels like Braton, is a straight upgrade to Braton.
Dera Vandal - works like Dera, feels like Dera, is a straight upgrade to Dera.
Quanta Vandal - works like Quanta, feels like Quanta, is a straight upgrade to Quanta.
Snipetron Vandal - works like Snipetron, feels like Snipetron, is a straight upgrade to Snipetron.
Supra Vandal - works like Supra, feels like Supra, is a straight upgrade to Supra.
Lato Vandal - works like Lato, feels like Lato, is a straight upgrade to Lato.
Prova Vandal - works like Prova, feels like Prova, is a straight upgrade to Prova.

Opticor Vandal - doesn't really work like Opticor, doesn't feel like Opticor, doesn't do what Opticor was originally designed to do.

Is it sinking in yet? Vandals are supposed to be an upgraded version of the base weapon while still feeling like the same weapon, and Opticor Vandal fails at this. It doesn't matter if it does more dps or whatever, it doesn't have the same playstyle. AT ALL. Let that sink in.

Anyone saying "but just use the original Opticor", again, clearly isn't seeing the consistency issue here, and why it annoys people who were hoping for something familiar. I'm going to assume this is the same group of people that answer every public-related issue with "just play solo".

How is it not working like the original Opticor? It has the exact same mechanics, just some altered values. Kinda like the difference between Boltor, Boltor Prime and Telos Boltor. They have the same mechanics but altered stats for different playstyles, loadouts and uses. Opticor Vandal also does exactly what the Opticor was designed to do, wipe out groups of enemies in one shot, only with better mobility to boot.

People are only pissy and complaining because they didnt get to keep the 1k base damage along with getting shorter charge time, more crit, status and ammo. It is called balance and the original Opticor is still an option if you dislike the Vandal.

 

[Damocles]

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

what i meant was people acting as if every single opticor users only wanted big and slow numbers. there are snipers for that. and snipers are very powerful, you dont need rivens for anything. 

also aoe isnt only the end explosion. every attack opticor has a very wide hitbox, therefore aoe. 

Well snipers don't have the look and feel of Opticor. And Snipers iirc died for me when they nerfed the rivens for every single sniper in that category. Vectis Prime is 2 shot trash, Rubico is gold but niche and not the experience I am targeting.

Also that AoE is a downside how?

[Leyers_of_facade]

4 minutes ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

wait send proof! I wanna know how I can get the same result

I still don't have OBS downloaded again (or other recording softwares), I can inv you to simulacrum if you are still online on wf tho.
Its basically a gas build

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

Well snipers don't have the look and feel of Opticor. And Snipers iirc died for me when they nerfed the rivens for every single sniper in that category. Vectis Prime is 2 shot trash, Rubico is gold but niche and not the experience I am targeting.

Also that AoE is a downside how?

where did i say aoe is a downside? and the look and feel of opticor exist on vandal as well, and as i (and some others) have said, it still murders targets in one or two hits, not that much of a downgrade compared to normal opticor. 

[Damocles]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

How is it not working like the original Opticor? It has the exact same mechanics, just some altered values. Kinda like the difference between Boltor, Boltor Prime and Telos Boltor. They have the same mechanics but altered stats for different playstyles, loadouts and uses. Opticor Vandal also does exactly what the Opticor was designed to do, wipe out groups of enemies in one shot, only with better mobility to boot.

People are only pissy and complaining because they didnt get to keep the 1k base damage along with getting shorter charge time, more crit, status and ammo. It is called balance and the original Opticor is still an option if you dislike the Vandal.

 

I think what he was going on was: If someone asked you "hey you know that 1k damage gun?" you'd say yes, the ICONIC opticor. Now if he Asked hey, remember that "400 dmg gun?", your reply "which one?". But if he rephrased to "Hey you know that neutered vandal version of a gun?" then everyone knows what they're implying is the Opticor Vandal.

[Damocles]

2 minutes ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

I still don't have OBS downloaded again (or other recording softwares), I can inv you to simulacrum if you are still online on wf tho.
Its basically a gas build

I require vids, cause I need to see UI. No trickery of the warframe buffs/ Madurai VS + Arcane Arachne + CPx3 Simulacrum exploit, or pre stripped armor