Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

[-CdG-Zilchy]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

untill you run out of ammo?

then spend 30 minutes with melee, if you were lucky enough to have taken a tanky enough frame that doesnt die in one shot from a firesplash.
 

 

this has happened at least 3 times in Hydron, where a level 70 wolf was gotten to at best 50% hp before host quit, resetting the HP.

 

i bring my Valkyr and it still takes 5 extra minutes in hydron.. there is no benefit to staying for most people, and i already have the hammer.

 

an assassination vs an assassin, the assassin pops in where players might be flat out unable to deal, even the veterans, the assassination you know you are going to fight a tought enemy and have the ability to prep.

Players cannot simply bring their strongest anti Wolf frame EVERY SINGLE MATCH.

Nope. My standard primary loadout for playing this game is Rubico Prime, it drops him in seconds. It's not a bother to mod it for radiation instead of viral since it 1 shots every enemy anyway.  The frame you use doesn't matter at all I've killed him on Inaros, a glass cannon nova, limbo and loki. I also have my archgun modded for radiation for the few occasions he shows up and I've modified my loadout. I also always use smeeta kavat for resource buff and she has sharpened claws. Bringing an archgun also doesn't change the amount of affinity gained if you don't deploy it.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

2 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Nope. My standard primary loadout for playing this game is Rubico Prime, it drops him in seconds. It's not a bother to mod it for radiation instead of viral since it 1 shots every enemy anyway.  The frame you use doesn't matter at all I've killed him on Inaros, a glass cannon nova, limbo and loki. I also have my archgun modded for radiation for the few occasions he shows up and I've modified my loadout. I also always use smeeta kavat for resource buff and she has sharpened claws. Bringing an archgun also doesn't change the amount of affinity gained if you don't deploy it.

Nope, i can say for a fact that you do not ALWAYS use that weapon as you would never get mastery ranks if you did.

your response ignores that as i said, Not everyone will always bring the perfect weapon/frame for dealing with the wolf, or even want to bring them.

also i would LOVE to see a video of you killing him in "seconds" when he spawns at level 70 on hydron.

 

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Nope, i can say for a fact that you do not ALWAYS use that weapon as you would never get mastery ranks if you did.

your response ignores that as i said, Not everyone will always bring the perfect weapon/frame for dealing with the wolf, or even want to bring them.

also i would LOVE to see a video of you killing him in "seconds" when he spawns at level 70 on hydron.

Please check my mastery rank before making that assumption. I can't give you one of Hydron because I never play Hydron, it's a very slow way of levelling and I prefer faster methods. But here's a kuva flood with him at level 65. They made him weaker since the update, that was pre-nerf. After the amalgam update I killed him in less time without stripping his armour, he got a chunky nerf.

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Zilchy

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Hmmm.. that's strange, my assailant seems to have stopped replying, can't imagine why...

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

19 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Hmmm.. that's strange, my assailant seems to have stopped replying, can't imagine why...

lol you still dont get it do you?

your entire arguement has from the start been " i don't have trouble with it because X/Y/Z, therefore no one else should have trouble with it".  i have already stated 

1 hour ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Not everyone will always bring the perfect weapon/frame for dealing with the wolf, or even want to bring them.

and you have utterly ignored it.

 

Yes he can be easy if you bring the right gear, but people will not always bring gear to deal with wolf spawns because A: they might not have it and B: they might be doing something else that requires a entirely differant setup and playstyle, or C : they simply dont want to use that play style..

 

Not everyone wants to bring a sniper rifle to every damm mission to deal with a random threat that requires it and isnt a part of normal gameplay.

[Kingsmount]

11 hours ago, bubbabenali said:

I don't think it's possible. Once in a random Akkad mission one of my two fellow random tried to invite his clan mate, but he said he wasn't able to join. 

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)corpusbonds said:

It doesn’t work.

 I was doing a bit of solo relics (needed junk) when the wolf came. I didn’t kill any enemies (exterminate) but when I tried to invite my fiancé it said the objective had been completed.

Alright, that's why I asked.  I felt like DE might pull a move like that and make things harder than they need to be and prevent fun like that.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

lol you still dont get it do you?

your entire arguement has from the start been " i don't have trouble with it because X/Y/Z, therefore no one else should have trouble with it".  i have already stated 

and you have utterly ignored it.

 

Yes he can be easy if you bring the right gear, but people will not always bring gear to deal with wolf spawns because A: they might not have it and B: they might be doing something else that requires a entirely differant setup and playstyle, or C : they simply dont want to use that play style..

 

Not everyone wants to bring a sniper rifle to every damm mission to deal with a random threat that requires it and isnt a part of normal gameplay.

And you've completely ignored what I've said so let me try again. There is no reason why a new player should be able to sneeze and kill an assassin, maybe Google that word, ASSASSIN. Now then, a geared player will crush Wolf, a slightly geared experienced player will also smash Wolf. If they're an experienced player they can easily mod an archgun for radiation and bring it along without even affecting their affinity gains and I'll bet most players don't even think about their archgun so don't tell me it affects their loadout. 

A newer player SHOULD have to be geared to take him on, that's not unfair that's progress. They also have the choice to ignore him in anything but a defense. But Hydron you cry... There's a reason he scales with the number of players. It's designed so that all 4 players have to contribute to his demise, there's nothing wrong with that and that's the dice you roll by playing pub and hoping that somebody else will carry you for affinity gains (if they're not bringing a decent weapon to kill things with that's what they're doing). 

You really don't need much to take him out, most of my clan mates have simply melee'd him to death with whatever melee weapon they had equipped at the time, condition overload works wonders on him.

It is extremely telling that most of the complaints about failing to kill him stem from missions on Hydron, if they weren't so intent on leeching they'd kill him much easier. 

Btw since you like to summarise ny argument I'll do the same. Your argument stems from "I know he could spawn in any mission at any time but I can't be bothered preparing for that eventuality and therefore it's bad design". That's the equivalent of there being a 5% chance of rain, not taking an umbrella and then complaining that you got wet.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Zilchy

[CorrosiveFox]

I just had to abort a mission because of the wolf. Guess I'm going to just do that from now on to save myself from wasting time. I don't think its hyperbole to say the Wolf of Saturn Six is the worst addition to Warframe. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, CorrosiveFox said:

I just had to abort a mission because of the wolf. Guess I'm going to just do that from now on to save myself from wasting time. I don't think its hyperbole to say the Wolf of Saturn Six is the worst addition to Warframe. 

Solo or in a group?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Nope, i can say for a fact that you do not ALWAYS use that weapon as you would never get mastery ranks if you did.

your response ignores that as i said, Not everyone will always bring the perfect weapon/frame for dealing with the wolf, or even want to bring them.

also i would LOVE to see a video of you killing him in "seconds" when he spawns at level 70 on hydron.

 

 

First off that's pretty ridiculous. You can very well use one weapon while passively leveling another. 

Second I'm not using the wolf hunting meta and can take him down with one good weapon (a catchmoon kitgun in my case) with little difficulty, in short order. Just ran into him on hydron, waves 5-10. I did the vast majority of the damage. 

No I didn't kill him in seconds. It probably took a couple of minutes. 

25 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

lol you still dont get it do you?

your entire arguement has from the start been " i don't have trouble with it because X/Y/Z, therefore no one else should have trouble with it".  i have already stated 

and you have utterly ignored it.

Probably because what you said is easily demonstrably wrong, as shown above. 

25 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Yes he can be easy if you bring the right gear, but people will not always bring gear to deal with wolf spawns because A: they might not have it and B: they might be doing something else that requires a entirely differant setup and playstyle, or C : they simply dont want to use that play style..

 

Then in the majority of those cases they have themselves to blame. Because we have lots of options. 

25 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Not everyone wants to bring a sniper rifle to every damm mission to deal with a random threat that requires it and isnt a part of normal gameplay.

If I brought my good sniper rifle I might have done a lot more damage. But I don't really enjoy using it in this game due to the charge speed. The kitgun works well enough for me. 

What other excuses are you going to try using next? 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

The bit about me not using the same weapon left me scratching my head, asserting that I would not always have it equipped.

1. I'm MR 27

2. I use Adaro and ESO not Hydron. Hydron is slow.

3. Rubico Prime is my favourite gun. There's no reason people can't mod their favourite weapon to do radiation, it'll still nearly 1 shot every enemy type in the game regardless of damage type.

[CorrosiveFox]

9 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Solo or in a group?

Group, then everyone but my friend I was playing with quit. Spent 40 minutes trying to kill him. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, CorrosiveFox said:

Group, then everyone but my friend I was playing with quit. Spent 40 minutes trying to kill him. 

Then they should be trying to help you kill it. Unfortunately that is the risk of pub. If it'd been just you and your friend in the game, assuming you had at least 1 decent gun equipped you'd probably rip him apart.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

yeah im done. "i use X gun which makes Y easy" is not a valid argument here. not everyone wants to run Meta weapons 24/7 and actually play to have fun.. 

sometimes i want to use my Akvastos just for the looks over my Tombfinger or my Catchmoon (both with rivens btw)

i came into this topic to defend people who do struggle with the wolf, and i have seen first hand how absolutely disruptive it is when you are not equipped to deal with it. instead i see people up their backsides with their own frontsides doing their best to put down everyone who struggles.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

not everyone wants to run Meta weapons 24/7 and actually play to have fun

Well then you're wrong. /s

That's all you're going to get in these threads sadly, people telling you you're wrong for not bringing a Wolf killer to every mission despite Warframe being built on players having choices of equipment. No invading boss should be like this, but people who can kill him in seconds don't care about that, because they can trivialize him who cares if it ruins the good times of others.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

yeah im done. "i use X gun which makes Y easy" is not a valid argument here. not everyone wants to run Meta weapons 24/7 and actually play to have fun.. 

sometimes i want to use my Akvastos just for the looks over my Tombfinger or my Catchmoon (both with rivens btw)

i came into this topic to defend people who do struggle with the wolf, and i have seen first hand how absolutely disruptive it is when you are not equipped to deal with it. instead i see people up their backsides with their own frontsides doing their best to put down everyone who struggles.

You figure that the best way to "defend" players who struggle, is to show how your choice to go unprepared, is what leaves you unprepared? 

Yeah, I figure you really didn't think that through. 

And again, drop the "I don't always run with the meta", because you don't need to use the meta to do significant damage. There are so many options for radiation damage, and high crits. But we're seeing time after time that people do not realise why the gear they are using isn't dealing as much damage as they are cocksure that it's doing. 

One tried to flex with 17k radiation damage (after crits) on the high status multi element, high slash weapon where a large percentage of the potential damage was being wasted. A decent arca plasmor would outclass that damage before the crits were applied. 

One is talking about his ignis wraith (again base stats suggest that the status chance is going to be much higher than the crits) not doing much damage. 

At some point we're going to have to ask if the game hasn't been built around the idea that different enemies are weak against specific damage types, and the idea of "use the right tool for the job". Because it seems like there's a huge number of people who don't get how that bit works. 

[Kontrollo]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

...

At some point we're going to have to ask if the game hasn't been built around the idea that different enemies are weak against specific damage types, and the idea of "use the right tool for the job". Because it seems like there's a huge number of people who don't get how that bit works.  

Well, no surprise at least for that.

It hasn't exactly been necessary for quite a while because from a certain progression point on, everything you usually encounter just drops dead in an instant, no matter what you bring. Not that that's an excuse, just an explanation.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

28 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Well, no surprise at least for that.

It hasn't exactly been necessary for quite a while because from a certain progression point on, everything you usually encounter just drops dead in an instant, no matter what you bring. Not that that's an excuse, just an explanation.

And that's the main reason I don't see why people can't just change a weapon to radiation while Wolf is sniffing around. It's going to wipe out your target regardless of damage type up till you're fighting level 150+ enemies which the majority of players won't go near anyway.

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, Zilchy said:

And that's the main reason I don't see why people can't just change a weapon to radiation while Wolf is sniffing around. It's going to wipe out your target regardless of damage type up till you're fighting level 150+ enemies which the majority of players won't go near anyway.

Even if that were not the case and you bring a loadout mostly tailored to the faction you're currently facing: We have 3 + 1 (+ 1) slots to bring something useful. Basic loadout, later Archguns, sometimes the Warframe itself. Just reserve one slot for Radiation.

I also haven't even tried to see what can be done with Operators, yet. And maybe I should try giving a Specter a pure Radiation gun. 🤔

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Even if that were not the case and you bring a loadout mostly tailored to the faction you're currently facing: We have 3 + 1 (+ 1) slots to bring something useful. Basic loadout, later Archguns, sometimes the Warframe itself. Just reserve one slot for Radiation.

I also haven't even tried to see what can be done with Operators, yet. And maybe I should try giving a Specter a pure Radiation gun. 🤔

If you kill him with a spectre please video cos I wanna watch that 😄

My amp didn't go great against him but maybe with void strike?

So far I've killed him with Rubico, Pyrana (slash go figure) my Guandao, Magus lockdown and a catchmoon. I tried covert lethality dagger using naromon to open him to finishers but sadly it didn't work 😞

[Uber.Munchkin]

The biggest issue I have with the Wolf is that he's just a boring enemy, there is literally no finesse to fighting him, either you are geared for it and he gets obliterated quickly or you're not and it's a tedious 20 minute brawl against a giant bullet sponge.  I would prefer it if we could have something else, say a fight with phases where after you defeat him the first time he disappears and then comes back a few minutes later with his ganga and then you fight them all at once, something interesting would be my preference.

[Kontrollo]

So I just had a low level encounter and decided to use my freshly Forma'd Velocitus instead of Excalibur's Exalted Blade:

Spoiler

Interestingly, I saw a few different numbers there. Now maybe I haven't paid enough attention to my charge, but do we actually know if the Wolf has special weak spots, and where they are? I only made a few screenshots, sadly, and none for the numbers that made me wonder. I thought I saw 6k crits when I shot him in the back?

Here are a few hits, note that in the latter two, Smeeta has stripped his armour, first one was a headshot I'd say:

Spoiler

 

They really had it in for me there. Two fugitive squads, then the Wolf and his buddies.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

So I just had a low level encounter and decided to use my freshly Forma'd Velocitus instead of Excalibur's Exalted Blade:

  Hide contents

Interestingly, I saw a few different numbers there. Now maybe I haven't paid enough attention to my charge, but do we actually know if the Wolf has special weak spots, and where they are? I only made a few screenshots, sadly, and none for the numbers that made me wonder. I thought I saw 6k crits when I shot him in the back?

Here are a few hits, note that in the latter two, Smeeta has stripped his armour, first one was a headshot I'd say:

  Hide contents

 

They really had it in for me there. Two fugitive squads, then the Wolf and his buddies.

Since the last amalgam update, Wolf takes more damage to the body than the head and yeh that's a tad odd lol. I copped Stalker and Wolf at the same time last week lol.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Zilchy

[Kontrollo]

12 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Since the last amalgam update, Wolf takes more damage to the body than the head and yeh that's a tad odd lol.

Ah, maybe I had it backwards then. When you generally aim for the neck/head it's not always clear what part got hit in the end, especially with projectiles. Although Velocitus' is pretty fast (surprise with that name! Let's not talk about a railgun not being hitscan, though 😉).

 

Edit: Btw, here's a good shot. This is the next stage in his Grand Evolution:

Edited April 25, 2019 by Kontrollo

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Well, no surprise at least for that.

It hasn't exactly been necessary for quite a while because from a certain progression point on, everything you usually encounter just drops dead in an instant, no matter what you bring. Not that that's an excuse, just an explanation.

Yes, and it's why bosses typically have to have periods of invulnerability. People complain about that. We can do all of this damage, why not make it count for once? 

All of the whining about not being able to kill him is nonsense. Because any player with a good high crit radiation damage weapon can take him apart in a pug on hydron. A group of 4 people can easily do the same thing with relatively poor weapons. 

2 pages ago we had one proclaim that the fight is unreasonable because they are well prepared with "a hybrid crit/stat rad + viral Corinth (19.5k radiation damage per shot on average including crits". That is basically a very entitled way of saying, "my not particularly well built weapon doesn't take him out in a low number of shots". 

Back of the envelope math suggests that I'm able to do about 5x the damage and can kill wolf in a reasonable amount of time. If the whole group were capable of dealing roughly the same damage as that poorly built Corinth, the fight would finish 4x faster which would mean it gets done in a few minutes, maximum. Heck, just switching the profile on that weapon so that it's dealing straight radiation damage, would help to take the radiation closer to 30k by just replacing the viral mods. That alone means that the shots goes down by half. 

So the problems many people are having with the wolf are definitely self-inflicted, and their adamant refusal to tweak their builds or take something that can contribute meaningfully, makes the fight worse for everyone around them, and going on to vehemently blame DE for their failures, because as far as they're concerned they shouldn't have to change their build. 

And again we're even talking about multiyear veterans doing this as well as the newbs. The newbs at least have an excuse. 😧