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Acersecomic

Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

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2 hours ago, Tubsie said:

So let's compare the old system vs the new system (Nightwave):

Old alert system: The occasional orokin catalyst/reactor alert, with a around 1h 30min timer. You're asleep because you're in the "wrong" timezone? Too bad, you missed it. Happened to me a lot of times when checking afterwards from some sites which alerts were going on. Same thing with the invasions, which occasionally (and still have) the catalyst/reactor reward for completing it 3 times. It's easy to miss unless you check them now and then in navigation screen. All in all, the maximum amount of time you had to complete an alert, was around 2 hours for a forma alert. Not counting gifts of the Lotus. So in the old system you would miss rewards that are very important for new players much more easily.

New system: You have 1 week of time to complete the different challenges. You get the Wolf cred along the way, which enables you to buy catalysts, reactors, nitain and cosmetic items. By the time you get to the last reward currently, you have around 300 Wolf creds if I remember right. Catalyst and reactors are 75 credits a piece, and do note that they are ready so no need to use resources on them. So you can get a total of 4 of them in the span of 2-3 months. On top of that, there are gifts of the Lotus alerts as well. How many catalyst/reactor alerts did you do within that time in the old system? And how many of those did you miss? This is way better. It gives you more time to do things, you do not miss the alerts just because you sleep or are at work, and this is much better for newer players as well, who might have no idea that after every DEV-stream, there is a 24h alerts. And this is not an opinion, I'm just stating the facts.

My opinion would be: You didn't think this through and are either trolling on purpose or just annoyed by something else entirely and came here to vent and waste everyone's time. And you say you do not have time? How exactly did you have time in the old system where you had max 2h instead of 1 week? I cannot understand that. If you cannot get to the last reward stage within what... 2-3 months, well I don't know what to say, except consider your life choices? You do a lot in life = Can't expect to be an achiever in some videogames. Don't go out so much and socialize = You can complete more missions.

Additional info: I have skipped some of the 5k ones if I found them boring or just simply too time consuming. Like for example the "complete 8 bounties" is very repetitive so never did it. All in all, I skipped about 20-25k worth of Nightwave standing on the missions, yet I still managed to get to the last reward just last week and now I'm like "Guess I'll just login and logout.".

I view it the same as you.  I have also skipped some of the challenges especially the bounty ones.  I have gotten the last Nightwave reward and now sitting at 33 as of this morning just doing the passive ones while playing like I normally do.  

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11 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Intentionally unprepared? Where's his boss node? Because that's the only way in which you'd know that you'd be fighting him and go in without a suitable build (which as is customary for DE, you have absolutely zero choice about - it's crit radiation or nothing).

6% chance of showing up in any level 20+ mission outside of the special zones where he can't show up. 

So you know that if you go to any of those places he's got a chance to show up. Did you prepare for him to possibly show up? 

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You prepare for defence missions, intercepts, survivals and so on because you know from the start that this is what you're in for. In fact, you even have a lot of leeway with a lot of those.

 

One of the common ways to prepare for those is to take an appropriate weapon. Radiation is a good choice especially if you are able to do lots of damage. Looks like you know that. 

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You don't put in annoying and/or lengthy preparations for something which is both random and extremely infrequent. Tell me - do you carry around a fire extinguisher at all times just in case a car happens to spew fuel on you as it drives past and sparks from its wheels ignite you?

Check loadout to see if it contains at least one of my high crit radiation damage weapons. If not equip one and check its loadout. 

Ready to. 

Regarding the car and fuel with possible spark.. Well that's never happened to me or anyone I know. The wolf has. Repeatedly. 

But I do have extinguishers in my car, house and workplace. Now out of curiosity, how many times have you been randomly immolated by passing cars? 

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And no, carrying a high damage radiation weapon is not something everyone will want to do. Alloy armour is a problem on a few enemies, and there are several ways to handle it in the actual game - corrosive procs or SI to weaken it, slash procs or stun & melee finisher to bypass it, or plain radiation damage to brute force it. Except that the game takes away the choice here. Doubly so when the health type is this batS#&$ insane "alloy armour" health type. Not (cloned) flesh, machinery, robotics, or other usual health types. An armour type. Why? So even if you strip away all the armour, you still need to use radiation damage.

Status procs don't work as expected on bosses, and several special enemies are strong/immune to your warframe abilities. Having one good high crit radiation damage weapon doesn't even require one of your regular loadouts slots. You can go archgun if you want to keep your primary, secondary and melee untouched. 

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Also, before you *@##$ at me going "oh, you refuse to prepare, you suck", my default loadout is a hybrid crit/stat rad + viral Corinth (19.5k radiation damage per shot on average including crits, same for viral, physical is a little less) with a shattering impact Lesion as my melee (and an acid/cold hybrid build Arca Scisco as the pistol, but that's irrelevant here). I'm apparently fairly well set up to deal with him, but I still have absolutely zero interest in fighting him because gigantic walls of hitpoints with magic anti-everything shields are not fun to fight. Especially when most of the time, you'll end up with a molten impact instead of a reward.

That's a nice flex, I guess. But all of your status is wasted. Same for the viral. Corinth has a good puncture, but the slash is also out of the window. The shattering impact is nice, but as I just showed, much of the rest of your potential to do damage just seems to be wasted. 

Now my catchmoon kitgun that I've been using to hunt wolf, can do something like 14.7k radiation damage, before the 77% crit chance for 2.3x damage. So it should be giving me comparable numbers, but without most of the wastage in damage. (There's 1.7k damage from impact but I can live with that.) 

That's before fancy stuff like primed mods. When I toss those on I am currently supposed to be hitting for something like 12.3k of radiation before the 100.5% crit chance, for over 4.6x damage. Oh and most of the time I'm in a mixed use Rhino so if I roar everyone gets +77.5% damage buff for a bit less than a minute per roar. (Had a chance to confirm to confirm the values. Looks like I was pretty close. Looks like I am currently packing maybe 5x the rad damage you are when we count crits?) 

The difference between you and me, is that I KNOW that I'm not carrying a really great setup to deal with the wolf. It takes me a few minutes to take him down. Others can do it a lot faster.

 

So by my reckoning while you're not totally unprepared to face him, you also aren't particularly well prepared either, at least not in the way that you seem to think that you are. But it's definitely a good place to start from. 👍

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1 hour ago, Atsia said:

Now DE did specifically state that these kind of challenges were specifically for endurance runners and people who can afford the time, not the casual player.

Yeah but it doesn't really coincide with what they claim they're about. If they want to keep this up.. ok, fine but they've had a lot of challenges that aren't at all newbie friendly and they are the ones that relied on alerts most of all. Also the lack of bang for your buck, again 5000 standing for that? Do you really want them to think a reward for that much of your time is actually worth it and a-okay with everyone?

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

Yeah but it doesn't really coincide with what they claim they're about. If they want to keep this up.. ok, fine but they've had a lot of challenges that aren't at all newbie friendly and they are the ones that relied on alerts most of all. 

Only about 4 actually. 2x Kuva survival, Profit Taker and Hydrolyst, the last of which can be done in a public group with a better player carrying. The rest have been easily doable in pub pretty much.

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33 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

6% chance of showing up in any level 20+ mission outside of the special zones where he can't show up.

And right there is my point. I am not going to alter my loadout just for a 6% chance of Tanky McArbitrary Tankface showing up so that he can have his 25% chance of dropping something useful after a fight which takes longer than the actual mission.

Oh, and archguns suck. I do more damage with my pistol than my 5-forma Velocitus. It won't matter what I equip in that slot (and in fact, I removed it from the gear wheel right after I was done with the profit taker to stop it from getting in the way of gear which I actually do use), my normal loadout is still better.

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3 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

Oh, and archguns suck. I do more damage with my pistol than my 5-forma Velocitus. It won't matter what I equip in that slot (and in fact, I removed it from the gear wheel right after I was done with the profit taker to stop it from getting in the way of gear which I actually do use), my normal loadout is still better.

Try the new larkspur it's actually quite disgusting how much damage it does. And for profit taker velocitus is a bad choice, the Corvus and Imperator Vandal are far more suited to that fight. Your normal loadout from what I read is not very suitable for the Wolf. But that's your choice of course.

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1 minute ago, Zilchy said:

Try the new larkspur it's actually quite disgusting how much damage it does.

I was not very impressed by it while levelling. Its real advantages were that it either auto-aimed or that it had a huge explosion, the main problem in AW being that your targets are so small and so far away. It didn't look like it was doing any better than my Phaedra in terms of murder per second.

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1 minute ago, DoomFruit said:

I was not very impressed by it while levelling. Its real advantages were that it either auto-aimed or that it had a huge explosion, the main problem in AW being that your targets are so small and so far away. It didn't look like it was doing any better than my Phaedra in terms of murder per second.

Oh I meant on the ground. In Archwing the secondary fire is great, particularly on the indoor tileset. In heavy weapon mode for your frame, the primary fire is disgusting.

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5 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

And right there is my point. I am not going to alter my loadout just for a 6% chance of Tanky McArbitrary Tankface showing up so that he can have his 25% chance of dropping something useful after a fight which takes longer than the actual mission.

And 94% of the time that would be fine. Of course that choice probably won't work out well the remaining 6% of the time but I'm sure that you will recall that it was a choice you made, and not try and blame your self-inflicted difficulties on anything other than yourself. Right? 🙄

9 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

Oh, and archguns suck. I do more damage with my pistol than my 5-forma Velocitus. It won't matter what I equip in that slot (and in fact, I removed it from the gear wheel right after I was done with the profit taker to stop it from getting in the way of gear which I actually do use), my normal loadout is still better.

Oh I dig that. Like I showed, my pistol seems to be outclassing your primary several times over. I am guessing that it also deals more damage than your pistol against the wolf but I haven't used my arca scisco in a long time and I'm not sure of the stats. 

Of course if you chose a better archgun and played with getting it to do better damage to the wolf, you may find that he's not quite as small or far away as all that. 😁

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2 hours ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

Well his gimmick is garbage. He's not difficult to fight, his only issue is he soaks up damage like nothing at level 70 + so the majority of the fight is just waiting around for him to die. That isn't interesting game design.

Takes me a few minutes, in a group on Hydron. Yeah I need to shoot him more than once, but it's really not a huge deal.

Well not unless everyone in the group is severely under-prepared I suppose.... 🤔 What did you say were the stats on what you were using to do the job? 

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26 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And 94% of the time that would be fine. Of course that choice probably won't work out well the remaining 6% of the time but I'm sure that you will recall that it was a choice you made, and not try and blame your self-inflicted difficulties on anything other than yourself. Right?

There's no difficulty involved, I just quit back to the main menu. The time-reward tradeoff is not in the wolf's favour. Again, I'm not taking along weapons or builds that I do not like just because of some very rare randomly spawning bullet sponge. If I don't like that particular build, it's not fun. Games are supposed to be fun, therefore I'm not going to do it.

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3 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

There's no difficulty involved, I just quit back to the main menu. The time-reward tradeoff is not in the wolf's favour. Again, I'm not taking along weapons or builds that I do not like just because of some very rare randomly spawning bullet sponge. If I don't like that particular build, it's not fun. Games are supposed to be fun, therefore I'm not going to do it.

Ahhh well you see now you are making a valid and valuable point. If you don't like doing something in a game, then choosing to not do that makes perfect sense. Unfortunately nobody else is really required to like the same stuff as you. 

It also means that your complaint is entirely subjective. Which is fine, and all, but others won't necessarily have that sort of issue.

Personally I really don't want to go hunting for conservation of land animals in the game but I'm not going to sit here insisting that it's a terrible addition to the game, or impossible to do. Lots of people seem to enjoy doing it, and I'm okay with that. 

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I too am a bit miffed about Wolf. The bugger refuses to show up. Then again, I do end up in the free roam areas more as of late but not exclusively!

As for arguments about nightwave vs alerts; I honestly prefer this system over the old one. Why? Less RNG. Far less RNG. Who says you need or even WANT all the alternate helmets and weapon skins? I don't, there are helmets in the lineup I don't have an am still passing over and I've been here for basically six years! It's not about the damn helmets! 

For me, the biggest win is not the cosmetics, the fact that they allow us to get them this easily or at all is just a cherry on top and if I were to be a bit greedy, I would also like it if the basic color pallet be fully unlockable through it. What impresses me most is that finally, FINALLY, there's a reliable way to get vauban parts, nitain AND potatoes. Those alone, THOSE ALONE make this new system MAGNITUDES better then the old one. You had to rely on Devstream alerts for Potatoes if you didn't want to pay for them or the occasional invasion and even rarer alert. Nitain was functionally alert exclusive and considering how much it was needed, that system was criminal. 

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On 2019-03-11 at 7:06 AM, HorridaMessor said:

DE shoudl increase the chance of Wolf's invasion a little bit but make him a permanent addition to the assassin ivasion group.

EDIT: Whoops sorry mate, I should have checked the dates.  

It's been revealed since you posted he will keep spawning after the event, but chances are you know now.  I didn't realize you posted in March lol.  

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16 minutes ago, Lakais said:

I too am a bit miffed about Wolf. The bugger refuses to show up. Then again, I do end up in the free roam areas more as of late but not exclusively!

As for arguments about nightwave vs alerts; I honestly prefer this system over the old one. Why? Less RNG. Far less RNG. Who says you need or even WANT all the alternate helmets and weapon skins? I don't, there are helmets in the lineup I don't have an am still passing over and I've been here for basically six years! It's not about the damn helmets! 

For me, the biggest win is not the cosmetics, the fact that they allow us to get them this easily or at all is just a cherry on top and if I were to be a bit greedy, I would also like it if the basic color pallet be fully unlockable through it. What impresses me most is that finally, FINALLY, there's a reliable way to get vauban parts, nitain AND potatoes. Those alone, THOSE ALONE make this new system MAGNITUDES better then the old one. You had to rely on Devstream alerts for Potatoes if you didn't want to pay for them or the occasional invasion and even rarer alert. Nitain was functionally alert exclusive and considering how much it was needed, that system was criminal. 

Maybe less RNG - but also less rewards.  Under the old alert system, even only playing the same amount of time nightwave takes you would have gotten 3x more as many of the things being sold for wolf creds.  The only thing objectively better to acquire now is Nitain.  Everything else is substantially rarer now by virture of the fact you simply get less rewards over time, which actually makes those on things all, on average, more scarce than they were under RNG. 

Not to mention there still IS RNG, as the rewards you can buy for creds cycle randomly every so often, so you can't even garauntee what you want will be on sale - just like before with RNG alerts.   

The cred rewards make it so you can only buy like 6-7 things in the first 6 weeks... do you know how many of those rewards I could have gotten in the same time period under the old system - to say 10x more wouldn't even be an exaggeration.  You could earn dozens of things a week before.  No longer possible. 

For me that's a poor tradeoff.  We lost dozens of potential rewards we could have had in favour of removing RNG and only being able to afford a small handful.  I understand the benefit if you are after very specific things, but if you aren't looking for one thing in particular, then you end up in a situation where you get less rewards over time, and that feels bad when you think about it. 

Two sides of a coin, I guess 😕 

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On 2019-03-11 at 4:52 AM, Acersecomic said:

[...]

timegates

[...]

I am honestly getting tired 😞 and I hate it... I just want to play and have fun

Take it from me, as someone whose played this game for years and has over 2000 hours put into it, timegates are a necessary evil to keep Warframe alive. It has no real endgame, absolutely none, not even raiding was good enough when it existed. Once you've done everything, built everything, mastered everything, there's nothing left for you to do. I barely play this game anymore myself, even though I've still got to get Hildryn, Baruuk, the latest primes that just came out, plus a few weapons that released with Orb Vallis, because I know I'm going to quit again the moment I get and master them.

I really wish DE would take some time out of their development and put some serious work into creating a proper endgame for veteran players, that way they can stop limiting everything behind timegates so people aren't grinding their butts off for things.

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9 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Take it from me, as someone whose played this game for years and has over 2000 hours put into it, timegates are a necessary evil to keep Warframe alive. It has no real endgame, absolutely none, not even raiding was good enough when it existed. Once you've done everything, built everything, mastered everything, there's nothing left for you to do.

I don't really fully agree.  I do think timegates are important in some areas of the game - but with events, which is effectively what Nightwave is?

The problem here is events, by nature, are time limited.  So you have a double cluster scenario.  Time Gated but Time Limited.  This means DE is actively controlling the rate at which we play the game almost down to the minute, which is a pretty oppressive philosophy. especially in a game where player freedom has generally been paramount to the experience.  You can't play the event too slow, less you miss all the rewards - that's to be expected from an event - but now you also can't burn through an event and you can only progress when DE allows...

As a Grand Master, you've been around a bit longer than I have, but I have never since Day 1 of PS4, ever seen a time in Warframe's history where something was both time gated and time limited.  Every event ever in WF that I got to play was not time gated - only time limited.  The only events I think we missed were Gravidus and maybe another - so unless those were cluster situation, I would say Nightwave is extremely out of the norm in its design.  

Let's not forget this is also the single biggest time gate in WF history, at 1 week for weekly stuff to respawn.  Syndicates = 24 hr gate, crafting = max 3 day gate... Nightwave... 1 week.  It's a step beyond necessary or justifiable.  

Time gates have no business being tied to something that is time limited because at that point the devs are actively dictating how much we can play the game and when we can play the game.  We are on their prescribed schedule.  That's not a necessary evil - it's just flat out evil.      

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3 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Intentionally unprepared? Where's his boss node? Because that's the only way in which you'd know that you'd be fighting him and go in without a suitable build

intentionally unprepared would be applying a Polarity to your Warframe, your Guns, your Melee, and your Archgun. or just having none of them actually be useful.

there's 3 Guns and a Melee Slot there, one of them is even basically free and doesn't impact your Gameplay at all if you don't come to need it unless you call it down from the sky. there's not really much of any reason why atleast one of those Slots would have something capable of Killing Enemies/actually dealing Damage.

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I was leveling a Chroma on Hydron with a ignis wraith that I have equipped with a super nicely rolled riven.  I had just hit lvl 30 on my Chroma w/ 250% power strength, maxed vex armor stacks, and i was basically not damaging him at all.  It didn't help that the 3 people with me all had leveling gear so they just quit out but the guy spawned in for a 4 man party worth of damage.  But still, this is just stupid.  He had no chance of killing me since I was running dual Magus Elevates, but I have no desire to just plow ammo into the guy for the next 20 minutes to get a Fever Strike mod.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

6% chance of showing up in any level 20+ mission outside of the special zones where he can't show up. 

So you know that if you go to any of those places he's got a chance to show up. Did you prepare for him to possibly show up? 

One of the common ways to prepare for those is to take an appropriate weapon. Radiation is a good choice especially if you are able to do lots of damage. Looks like you know that. 

Check loadout to see if it contains at least one of my high crit radiation damage weapons. If not equip one and check its loadout. 

Ready to. 

Regarding the car and fuel with possible spark.. Well that's never happened to me or anyone I know. The wolf has. Repeatedly. 

But I do have extinguishers in my car, house and workplace. Now out of curiosity, how many times have you been randomly immolated by passing cars? 

Status procs don't work as expected on bosses, and several special enemies are strong/immune to your warframe abilities. Having one good high crit radiation damage weapon doesn't even require one of your regular loadouts slots. You can go archgun if you want to keep your primary, secondary and melee untouched. 

That's a nice flex, I guess. But all of your status is wasted. Same for the viral. Corinth has a good puncture, but the slash is also out of the window. The shattering impact is nice, but as I just showed, much of the rest of your potential to do damage just seems to be wasted. 

Now my catchmoon kitgun that I've been using to hunt wolf, can do something like 14k radiation damage, before the 70% crit chance for 2.3x damage. So it should be giving me comparable numbers, but without most of the wastage in damage. 

That's before fancy stuff like primed mods. When I toss those on I am currently supposed to be hitting for something like 12k of radiation before the 100%+ crit chance, for over 4.5x damage. And far more than that for a while if a bit of cannon fodder steps near while I'm shooting him. Oh and most of the time I'm in a mixed use Rhino so if I roar everyone gets something like +75% damage buff for a bit less than a minute per roar. (Sorry if the numbers are off, I'm not going to be able to check for a while. I'll try to confirm later. We can skip doing the math until then if you want.) 

The difference between you and me, is that I KNOW that I'm not carrying a really great setup to deal with the wolf. It takes me a few minutes to take him down. Others can do it a lot faster.

 

So by my reckoning while you're not totally unprepared to face him, you also aren't particularly well prepared either, at least not in the way that you seem to think that you are. But it's definitely a good place to start from. 👍

I seen him show up in lv 5 missions too o.o

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Just wanted to throw out that he can spawn in very very low missions. A buddy of mine was helping out 2 newbies that just started, and wolf popped in on a level 1-3 mission. The whole ascaris thing with vor.

 

Pretty sure he wasn't supposed to, but my buddy had fun watching 2 fresh excals trying to merc him.

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13 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Given that his spawn rate is already quite low, and that it's the whole point of the thread, adding a mechanic to repel him probably isn't a fantastic idea.

the idea that would fallow it would be an increase of spawns.

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I'm really angry with the wolf today.

I'm angry that he never shows up when I'm rolling my nuke-frames for focus. I'm angry that he shows up when I'm trying to level something that can't deal with his invincible minions. I'm angry that my game crashed half way through one fight with him and the rest of the team abandoned the mission before I could load back in. I'm angry with every part of this stupid thing because every DE stream is like "this is our awesome new content" and it's such a wet fart. I'm angry when I want to be having fun but there's an enormous brick wall of RNG that always rolls when it's least opportune. I'm angry that I can't work for the reward, because it's completely arbitrary whether the Spawn RNG, my readiness, and drop RNG will line up.

I'm angry that I'm angry at this stupid thing. I'm angry that I play and got invested in such a time-wasting game.

Anyway. Venting over. I don't need tips or whatever, I just wanted that out of my system. I've spent all day playing and he's shown up twice in my last hour of play for the day and both have been a complete wash, and it's such a crappy way to end the day. It's a complete downer.

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10 hours ago, Kingsmount said:

Has anyone else tried inviting others into your game when wolf shows up?

 

The idea is that wolf's spawn is 6%,  regardless of the other people in your game unlike stalker where a full group has a higher chance of finding him since they're individually marked.  So an unnofficial squad of 4 runs their own separate captures, exterminates, or survivals.   Exterminate is probably better for this where it's easier to manage when you complete the objective.

Chill in operator void mode while you invite people. 

Have the others all on standby where no questions are asked, just invite immediately.    I've been attempting this but I've never been able to get a response from clan/alliance chat fast enough before it's too late (Defense waves or survival timer,  or capture target dying without a warning...) 

 

4 people running at once in their own missions would be like having a 24% chance to find wolf each 3-5 minutes or so instead of 6.

It doesn’t work.

 I was doing a bit of solo relics (needed junk) when the wolf came. I didn’t kill any enemies (exterminate) but when I tried to invite my fiancé it said the objective had been completed.

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2 hours ago, Alexandrious said:

I seen him show up in lv 5 missions too o.o

 

1 hour ago, SECURATYYY said:

Just wanted to throw out that he can spawn in very very low missions. A buddy of mine was helping out 2 newbies that just started, and wolf popped in on a level 1-3 mission. The whole ascaris thing with vor.

Yes, he's got a 4% chance of doing that. And he's also not going to be as strong in those lower levels. 

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Pretty sure he wasn't supposed to, but my buddy had fun watching 2 fresh excals trying to merc him.

Nah, he's not supposed to show up in free roam, or boss nodes, or sanctuary, or in a mission where some other assassin has already decided to show up. Everywhere else is fair game. But the lower levels he just shows up a lot less.

 

Wouldn't be fair to not give the newbs a chance at him, even if they can't really kill him yet (just like the Stalker). 

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