Corpus VS Grineer: The Only Viable Warframe PVP

[PlagueViper]

I have made a X-Post of this in the Conclave Feedback sub. I added some new perspective to combat many of the common concerns seen here, so please do go check it out if you think my idea holds any weight.

Hello, I don't post here much, and this is more of a fun fantastical idea than anything I ever expect to see implemented in Warframe in its lifetime, but I have been mulling it over in my head and I figure it's something worth at least throwing out there into the void.

Okay, so we know Conclave isn't exactly, well, played... and there's a lot of reasons for that, right? Right! Well, do I have a neat little idea for you! It's called "Corpus VS Grineer"! See, there's so many issues with Conclave and I personally believe that the very nature of Warframes themselves prevents Warframe VS Warframe combat from ever being fun for anybody but the best 1% of players, so I figure we scrap it altogether and make the struggle one where you play as Corpus or Grineer in a struggle against one another.

You could hold onto the current conclave game-modes and easily interconnect many of the existing conclave maps with those of the PvE tile-sets already existing within the game, and you could also recycle a large portion of the enemy designs already in the game. No, you don't have to make new frames, or even a mod-system, because having isolated PVP rewards that only applied to PVP, while maintaining an open-season, bring-literally-anything style of conclave just doesn't work, you have to flip the script. You would have an isolated PVP system, where you were given by the game all of the options of what you can play, while the rewards would be derived from invasions.

It could be as simple as:

Corpus Units                       Grineer Units                        Unit Role

Prodman                               Flameblade                           Melee, Fast but Low-Health

Crewman                              Lancer                                  Base Unit, Reliable but not Special

Sniper Crewman                  Ballista                                  Long-range Sniper

Tech                                     Heavy Gunner/Bombard       Heavy Unit, Slow but Tanky and Powerful

Attack Drone                        Hellion                                  Base Unit, but Capable of Vertical Play and getting up in spots where no one else can. 

And that's it, having predetermined classes would solve the balance and movement issues present with letting players bring in their warframes. All of a sudden DE can just set the balance and make tweaks as necessary without having to worry about "Oh gosh, now we released a new weapon that kicks a** thanks to power-creep. Guess PVP will just be even more broken now" because you will be playing set characters with set weapons and damage numbers. "Nuenu," you ask, "But what about rewards? What about netcode? What about hit registration? What about player count? What about DE staff not having the time for this? What about the fact that nobody asked for this? What about Infested, huh?"

Well, I'm glad you asked.

Rewards:
Obviously DE could do whatever they wanted, but what if, I tells ya, what if they just made the rewards invasion rewards. Easy as pie, win 3 games and you get double the rewards from just running the invasion. For the weapon parts, win 1 or 2 games and that's enough. All of a sudden, you've created a huge incentive for players who like PVP to play. If that's not enough, add some form of player rewards. Win a game? You can reroll your daily login reward (for something equivalent), or you can choose between some orokin cells or an argon crystal. Don't add more new stuff to grind, just add more interesting and fun ways to grind the stuff we already have.

Netcode and Hit Registration:
Oh lord, I don't know. If DE has the resources to make Conclave happen in the first place, and they've hired outside 3rd parties once (albeit to handle chat moderation, nothing on this scale), they can do it again. As it is, they already have an alright system in place, and I imagine that less frantic/mobile/ability-spammy things like Grineer and Corpus would be much easier to bring to a desired level.

Player Count:

Introducing rewards people give a crap about and fixing a lot of the glaring issues with the Conclave is likely more than enough to create a strong boost of players now. People don't play Conclave because there's no reason to do so, since the rewards are isolated to stay in the Conclave, and it's not fun since the majority of Conclave Vets are so insane they'll smack you in two faster than you can say "German words are really long." Something more balanced and casual would fix those problems.

DE Doesn't Have Time for This:

Sure they do. They made Conclave in the first place, and most all of the resources they'd need (outside of improved net-code and getting the players actually INSIDE the grineer/corpus) are there. They have the models, the maps, the guns, the numbers. Things would need to be retooled, sure, but if DE hired a 3rd party to handle a lot of the code-based issues, then I have strong doubts that DE would have to spend an unrealistic amount of time on something like this.

Nobody Asked for This:
Nobody asked for Lunaro, and nobody asked for Plains of Eidolon, but one was a success, and one was not. People complain about the game having bad/no real PVP all the time. If something like this was actually created, and the rewards were good, then maybe it would be a success, and maybe it wouldn't.

What About Infested?

Make them PVE content, with the same rewards as before but you're forced to play as the side they are fighting in whatever invasion it might be they're in. At a very minimum, if DE wanted to experiment with players playing as grineer and corpus, they could dip their toes in by having players play against Infested in PVE. You could even get creative, letting players take the reigns of a Nightwatch squad tasked with clearing Infested on a blacked-out Grineer ship intended to be refurbished and put back into circulation. You could let your hearts go wild with it, honestly.

Isn't this just creating more content, instead of fixing the PVP we already have?
Yeah, but in my honest opinion, there's no way to save it without a massive overhaul. My insane and highly impractical/unlikely idea is what I'd rather see in the Conclaves place, or at least alongside it. At a minimum, it could be an alternative way to make invasions less horrifically painful to farm out by giving the players extra options.

 

TL;DR I'm a crazy MR26 wretch that thinks that DE should make a Star Wars Battlefront-esque Grineer Vs Corpus PVP mode.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Nuenu

[soal5367]

This is one of those great concepts that you see pop up and just kinda hope the developers see the raw potential that's there. I'd love to see warframe actually have some PvP that has a bit more stability and balance, as it'd like eat up a number of hours of my time. I think if this idea were to be explored even with as much depth as say frame fighter it'd be quite the treat. It'd be difficult to make it and engaging and worth peoples time without sinking decent investment into it, but I'd love to see them try, especially considering how adventurous they've been with other content in the game. Why not, right? 

[TheDavin01]

This is a great idea! The idea is very well thought out and already has so much built onto it! This could easily replace Conclave, as it would add an entirely new gamemode. It even already has the classes ready, so it wouldnt need much built from it! Im sure it would attract new players as well as giving the veteran players so much more to play with!

[lighthoof]

This idea belongs to feedback or suggestions forums. Post it there, right now!

On a serious note - we can even give the classes a pool of weapons to chose from, like not restricting ballistas to vulkar only and giving then an option to take a grinlok instead.

[Kontrollo]

This has been suggested many times already, you just need to have a look at the right subforum (*hint*, *hint*).

 

I mean, I'd certainly try it. However, in a game about Space Ninjas, I'd rather play as one of those Space Ninjas.

I could talk more about the problems of the Conclave and how this wouldn't solve some very important ones, but seeing as the OP isn't even specific in that regard, I think I'm going to pass here.

[Legion-Shields]

When Railjack comes we can take this idea and create the Battlefront everyone was hoping for.

[0_The_F00l]

I like it

[Lost_Cartographer]

I've posted this idea before.  A long, LONG time ago, and it had a negative reception at the time.

But I agree with Kontrollo - we should probably maintain playing our Space Samurai, but this PvP mode would be in the vain of Titanfall's.  Fight to win an objective, AI is there as a resource and like any endless mode grows in strength over time.  There may have to be some cheating of enemy types to keep both sides AI equal, so Corpus having hitscan Dera's or Grakatas suddenly rapidly firing little fireballs instead of chemically made bullets, and both sides packing on shields.  Actually, I'm rather surprised they haven't injected a PvP form of interception into Conclave, it's a classic territorial control mode.  Would need a sizable map though.

With a little more finagling, they could convert our gear wheel in conclave into an ability purchase wheel where we call down air strikes, reinforcements, vehicles(?) boosters, arch-guns, etc, with points we've accumulated during the match.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[Chaemyerelis]

I like it.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

This idea has been suggested countless times.
I know that I suggested it as well once. I think half the forums have by this point haha.
Althought my idea  was unoriginally to make it more like Star Wars Battlefront II (The Good version. Aka: The one on PS2.)

DE could easily make it a PVP Mode but it'd FEEL like a fully fleshed out Mini-Game.
Skirmish, & most importantly Conquest mode would be incredibly fun to play.
Hero Units: John Prodman, Zanuka, G3, Sargus Ruk, etc.
We have space units/vehicles so Space combat is there, land to air is there.
With Conquest mode's acting like a sort of community campaign per week, tie it to the Invasion system. IE: A successful Conquest campaign triggers an Invasion of that planet. Etc.

So much potential. Hell, they could eventually add in new factions over time, Syndicates. Steel Meridian vs Grineer, Red Veil vs Arbiters of Hexis, Ostron vs Grineer, etc.
I'd love to play as a Heroic Konzu going all Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon on Grineer. Upon Victory he gets to chow down on his lunch earlier than planned.

Between all the times it's been suggested by various members of the community. I'm sure DE could mix them all together & make something truly amazing & unique.

Edited April 3, 2019 by (PS4)Zero_029

[o0Despair0o]

And here we go again:

 

Not gonna happen. There's like 1 and a half people working on PvP content in this game, because nobody plays it, because it sucks in every single way.

 

Heck, the PvP around here is still running on the peer-2-peer system. That alone kills any somewhat viable concept for pvp. I know they mentioned somewhere that there will be some new PvP stuff this year, but honestly, people will play it for like 3 hours, if even, and then forget about it because it sucks just like everything else.

 

Not to forget the most common - and true - argument for this matter: Nobody joins Warframe for the PvP content.

Except Kevin over there. But Kevin's about as bright as a black hole.

 

 

 

 

_{(Kevin doesn't refer to an actual human in this case. I just tried to be funny okay)}

[RX-3DR]

There are plenty of games that provide some level of PvP without just pitting one player character against another. While this idea holds weight, I don't think it will ever provide you a fair return within Warframe or as a standalone product. It may sound easy but you're taking an enemy unit, rigging it to an extremely scaled down player controls and animations, creating a completely new game mode and the results would likely not be as satisfying to play as the original game. It would be like playing Conclave with Operators that have 0 Energy and none of the interesting Amp parts.

People generally play Warframe and stick to it because of Warframes. We don't really develop any attachments to the enemy factions so it wouldn't be likely that many people are hoping for a day where they can run around slowly as a Corpus Crewman. You lose a lot of appeal of the gameplay(Gunplay, movement and melee) when you remove or reduce those parts in a side game mode. It would be like tacking Star Wars Battlefront as Force Unleashed's multiplayer where you're going to remove 90% of the gameplay appeal of the original game.

As a standalone product, it doesn't have enough brand recognition to draw in players. Star Wars Battlefront draws in people because many people recognize the brand.

In a game like Warframe, it would be better to consider other forms of PvP beyond just having player A shoot at player B. There's the option of a more directly competitive PvE much like some Tower Defense games do. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by RX-3DR

[DoomFruit]

I'd play Corpus v. Grineer, and the only time I've ever touched PvP in this game was exactly 3 times right back at the beginning when it used normal weapons and frame loadouts on dedicated solar system nodes.

[Kontrollo]

2 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

... There's like 1 and a half people working on PvP content in this game, because nobody plays it, because it sucks in every single way. 

  

Heck, the PvP around here is still running on the peer-2-peer system. ...

These statements are doubtful or untrue.

• If anyone has been working on it at all recently, then it was a bit on the side at most. Last mention of Conclave in patch notes that wasn't some bugfix was end of August 2018. Ok, Chroma Prime and his weapons got enabled, as well as some others -- but often with stats that make you wonder what's going on. E.g. Tatsu is there with more damage than in PvE for some reason.
   
• Despite being given the cold shoulder for months it still has people playing it.
   
• It has had community hosted dedicated servers for PC since October 2016. It's been more than two years but somehow this still gets repeated here. Sessions hosted by listen servers (how PvE works, and what people like to call P2P) are still possible, but that's the fallback mechanism, not the default.

[SneakyErvin]

With all the BR games out there I think this would be a great idea because it would go back to the basics of shooter PvP, like good 'ol classics such as Delta Force, Battlefield 1942, Command and Conquer Renegade etc. and not just be another virtual kindergarden for actual kids and "mature" people acting like kids.

If done well enough this mode would surely attract a new crowd of players in those that want to get away from £A or Activi$ion shooter titles. DE would just have to get some server host companies on board so the players can actually rent servers for it, much like how it works in the BF titles and so on.

A game mode like this would also rely on limited balance, instead of a whole roster of weapons. Just a few basic weapons fitting for each class and then modifications as needed to improve them and keep them unique. This along with some possible unlockable perks for each class, Attack Drone/Hellion could easily be one for the sniper class. Plus, throw some vehicles in there for the fun.

[-Azumarill-]

As a typical member of the Warframe forums, I didn't read OP's post at all. I just came here to comment that I would pay good credits to see a hardcore butcher vs prodman deathmatch. Better yet, if the butcher wins, the ending cutscene has Tyl Regor strapping Alad V to a chair and shaving his head (and vice versa if the corpus wins) - if this happens I will pay plat to watch it.

DE, I'm waiting.

Edited April 3, 2019 by -Azumarill-

[peterc3]

7 hours ago, Nuenu said:

You would have an isolated PVP system

That requires heavy animation work and art passes to every single enemy unit this PvP mode would feature.

Work that is entirely useless outside PvP. Then you are somehow getting people to play a game that has no connection to Warframe beyond the looks. You're playing as enemy units, with none of the frames or weapons you've become attached to in your time playing, the mods you've used to make your build the way you like it, the movement system, nothing that anyone playing is playing the game for.

This is certainly an idea for PvP... but it's basically a completely separate game. You've removed the Warframe from Warframe.

[----Legacy----]

Remove warframes from warframe to turn warframe's pvp into a reskinned CSGO? No, thanks. If you want to play a generic shooter there are plenty out there in the market.

[(PSN)Shustas]

Post in feedback forum. You are wasting time here with "but mah rhyno imersssion" or "its pve game"

[Kaotyke]

They could make Warframe into a franchise.

I wouldnt say no to a Warframe RTS.