The real test for Nightwave would be....

[FatherGrimm]

... see how popular it is without hiding unique items at the very end of it.

It's the only way to get umbral forma and special event items (e.g., armor set).  Those are the only things that make me participate in it, and I absolutely hate it.  Makes me bitter about the game, especially since it drove off my RL friends from the game.

You really want to compare it to the alert system?  Put only alert-type rewards in it.  Then see how often people participate.

[Test-995]

It never happens though.

They implemented umbral formas just because they knew nightwave would be torture for 80% of playerbase.

[Genitive]

Then you will return to the forums and complain that the new system has no cool rewards and there is no reason to play it. 

[Gabbynaru]

I hope they do that, because then no one's gonna play it and they'll hopefully get the message and remove this trash from the game.

[Krion112]

4 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Then you will return to the forums and complain that the new system has no cool rewards and there is no reason to play it. 

Says a lot about DE's ability to design games, if the only way to motivate play is by dangling 'rewards'; Heaven forbid they design something with interesting and engaging game-play.

This is the problem with Nightwave; it didn't make the system better, and it didn't make the game more interesting or engaging, it just changed how it worked to twist the player's arm to have to play more consistently in order to get stuff, which is antithetical to why Alerts existed in the first place.

[Launcelotko]

12 минут назад, FatherGrimm сказал:

... see how popular it is without hiding unique items at the very end of it.

It's the only way to get umbral forma and special event items (e.g., armor set).  Those are the only things that make me participate in it, and I absolutely hate it.  Makes me bitter about the game, especially since it drove off my RL friends from the game.

You really want to compare it to the alert system?  Put only alert-type rewards in it.  Then see how often people participate.

 

Do you really not understand why DE need "battle pass"?

Players are offered a certain set of unique rewards that cannot be bought, just for the game - isn’t it? But you need to play often and constantly.

Do you think the number of purchases of boosters or, for example, sets of forms will increase?

Why do many people think like children? )

[Genitive]

1 minute ago, Krion112 said:

Says a lot about DE's ability to design games, if the only way to motivate play is by dangling 'rewards'; Heaven forbid they design something with interesting and engaging game-play.

This is the problem with Nightwave; it didn't make the system better, and it didn't make the game more interesting or engaging, it just changed how it worked to twist the player's arm to have to play more consistently in order to get stuff, which is antithetical to why Alerts existed in the first place.

No, it didn't make the game more interesting or engaging for you. It is impossible to satisfy everyone.

[Test-995]

Just now, Genitive said:

No, it didn't make the game more interesting or engaging for you. It is impossible to satisfy everyone.

it's super ez to not pissing off peoples kek

No matter how S#&$ old system was, no one really cared about that.

 

[Gabbynaru]

2 minutes ago, Launcelotko said:

Why do many people think like children? )

Seriously! Only children think battle passes are good systems.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 minutes ago, Genitive said:

No, it didn't make the game more interesting or engaging for you. It is impossible to satisfy everyone.

Exactly why there should be options. 

1. Alerts should have NEVER been removed.

2. There needs to be at least 1 super elite challenge for vets to complete for at minimum max standing for that week. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Launcelotko]

3 минуты назад, Gabbynaru сказал:

Seriously! Only children think battle passes are good systems.

Did I somewhere say that the battle pass system is good?

I talked about not understanding, WHY DE introduce such a system and call for testing something - at least strange.

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Launcelotko

[(PSN)Viveeeh]

I see where this comes from, but you don't make much sense... True, I wouldn't play Nightwave if the only reward from it would be warframe helmets, Booben parts, aura mods (stuff I already own), credits (what I don't need) and potatoes (what I can get in other ways). But I wouldn't play the alerts for those things either... So how were they better?

I don't understand how Nightwave drives people away from Warframe. They didn't want to do Nightwave acts but they wanted the umbra forma anyway, and if they can't have it, they don't want to play anymore? This logic is beyond me. I hope at least your friends know that they don't even need the umbra forma to succeed in any of the challenges this game offers 

[tarfeef101]

Well now that we have our umbral forma, we can stop at least. As long as all we get is creds after the 30 ranks, I'll probably log in if friends are on, there's an update, or I want to burn vaulted relics. Otherwise explore other games. Which frankly, I'm fine with. I like being able to play other games. Warframe is fun, but other things are too.

Now I would definitely appreciate getting a timeline for these nightwave seasons so we can not feel obliged to go all-in and then cool off once we have everything, and instead take breaks throughout the whole season as needed because we can plan to still hit max by the end. That would really help

[Genitive]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Exactly why there should be options.

Alerts should have never been removed. And there should have been at least 1 elite challenge for vets to complete for at minimum max standing for that week. 

I don't think it was worth to keep alerts.

But let's imagine alerts make a return. What rewards should they offer? I doubt DE would add Nightwave rewards to the pool. So either a separate system with completely new rewards, which would spread both alerts and Nightwave thin, or keep old rewards. The second option would make alerts redundant, because Nightwave offers the same stuff.

Another problem with alerts was that they were not very engaging. Sure, we could get stuff instantly, but then there was not a lot to do. Very often I logged into the game to see nothing interesting and then logged out. Nightwave was a remedy for that. For me.

I understand arguments that it might be too time consuming and demanding to play weekly or daily, but I don't think alerts are the right answer. Maybe reduce rep requirements to reach new tiers faster or add more challenges per week.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Genitive

[--F--NerevarCM]

27 minutes ago, Krion112 said:

Says a lot about DE's ability to design games, if the only way to motivate play is by dangling 'rewards'; Heaven forbid they design something with interesting and engaging game-play.

This is the problem with Nightwave; it didn't make the system better, and it didn't make the game more interesting or engaging, it just changed how it worked to twist the player's arm to have to play more consistently in order to get stuff, which is antithetical to why Alerts existed in the first place.

Interesting and engaging gameplay doesn't matter if there's nothing rewarding at the end.

If you think people will play a new game mode or system only because is engaging, then you're really naive.

Edited April 9, 2019 by -SDM-NerevarCM

[MacKerris]

To use corp speak. There needs to be a ROI that is considered worthwhile by a large majority of players for Nightwave to be a success. At this point the rewards are not even close to being acceptable for the time spent farming them. The last reward is not even worth using as it is worse than what we can get anywhere else in the game. The rewards should elicit oohs and ahhs from players, not be put in the closet never to be seen again.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

I don't understand how Nightwave drives people away from Warframe. They didn't want to do Nightwave acts but they wanted the umbra forma anyway, and if they can't have it, they don't want to play anymore? This logic is beyond me. I hope at least your friends know that they don't even need the umbra forma to succeed in any of the challenges this game offers 

QFT.

If one umbral forma (or the effort to get it) is driving ppl away, warfarm is not the game for them.

DE needs a way to encourage (or coerce) people to not just login/out but actually play the game.  That's why the original alerts were temporal (so people login frequently to check if what they need is up, or wait for them to cycle around and hope they get the alert they need.  That's why you have to do 3 rounds for an invasion.  that's why things are drop chance rewards, not drop guaranteed rewards etc.

And since, (if one started from the beginning of nightwave like I didn't) one doesn't need to do every "challenge" to get it, I think its fair (even though I have no chance of getting the forma having missed too much time at the start)

 

[Test-995]

26 minutes ago, Genitive said:

I don't think it was worth to keep alerts.

But let's imagine alerts make a return. What rewards should they offer? I doubt DE would add Nightwave rewards to the pool. So either a separate system with completely new rewards, which would spread both alerts and Nightwave thin, or keep old rewards. The second option would make alerts redundant, because Nightwave offers the same stuff.

Another problem with alerts was that they were not very engaging. Sure, we could get stuff instantly, but then there was not a lot to do. Very often I logged into the game to see nothing interesting and then logged out. Nightwave was a remedy for that. For me.

I understand arguments that it might be too time consuming and demanding to play weekly or daily, but I don't think alerts are the right answer. Maybe reduce rep requirements to reach new tiers faster or add more challenges per week.

Kavat genetics.

[(PSN)Limorkil]

I have to say that whenever I complain about Nightwave people always bring up the better rewards as the justification.  As a relatively new player people use “you get Warframe and weapon slots” as the reason why it’s better.  

I don’t think Nightwave is bad.  I just think it needs to have fewer time constraints to make it feel less like a chore and a grind.  

But when I try to compare Nightwave to the old alert system I can find nothing I like better about it except for the less rng around potatoes, and the new awards.  If the awards were the same then I would prefer the old system.  

[Enxchiol]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

QFT.

If one umbral forma (or the effort to get it) is driving ppl away, warfarm is not the game for them.

DE needs a way to encourage (or coerce) people to not just login/out but actually play the game.  That's why the original alerts were temporal (so people login frequently to check if what they need is up, or wait for them to cycle around and hope they get the alert they need.  That's why you have to do 3 rounds for an invasion.  that's why things are drop chance rewards, not drop guaranteed rewards etc.

And since, (if one started from the beginning of nightwave like I didn't) one doesn't need to do every "challenge" to get it, I think its fair (even though I have no chance of getting the forma having missed too much time at the start)

 

I understand how it could be that the effort for umbral forma could drive people away, because umbral forma is an item that, if you wish to make a build using umbral mods on anyone but Excal Umbra, you're gonna need it(sometimes you can forma every other slot and still not have enough room). The problem with Nightwave is that to get these end rewards(not all purely cosmetic even, they actually have a fairly large gameplay effect), you have to dedicate yourself to 10 weeks of constantly doing tedious "challenges". It would be okay, if only it wasn't time limited, or if the challenges were more of a challenge; harder tasks, fewer of them and for greater standing reward, not just stuff you probably have done and will do anyway. With everything else, you can usually do it whenever you want to, you can jump in and out of the game whenever, but with Nightwave it seems to be that you either get these rewards or you don't, and never will. I personally was quite interested at Nightwave at first(I fell out at rank 15 and now probably have no hope of getting an Umbral Forma ever), but its just a bunch of unchallenging, tedious tasks that you're coerced into doing by fear of missing out, and that is not how playing should be encouraged. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, FatherGrimm said:

... see how popular it is without hiding unique items at the very end of it.

It's the only way to get umbral forma and special event items (e.g., armor set).  Those are the only things that make me participate in it, and I absolutely hate it.  Makes me bitter about the game, especially since it drove off my RL friends from the game.

You really want to compare it to the alert system?  Put only alert-type rewards in it.  Then see how often people participate.

And how often do you think that people used to participate in the majority of the alerts? 

Many of us would just ignore alerts for the cosmetics we already have. Same for Vauban and the credits or common materials. 

Let's face it, shall we? You have been around for a while. What percentage of the alerts were you doing just prior to nightwave? 

[Derunik]

Just about everyone that complains about Nightwave seems not to be cut out for this game. Please don't be so damn loud on the forums, there's lots of people that like the system that don't sit on the forums 24/7 complaining. Check every MMO you know and report back how fun their "log in to get x" events/ dailies are, this is way better. Most of these you can finish in a day, you only have to do 3 sorties, and it's damn easy. Wish there were more challenges each week, now I just postpone doing most of em until the weekend or even sunday evening.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

6 minutes ago, Enxchiol said:

With everything else, you can usually do it whenever you want to, you can jump in and out of the game whenever, but with Nightwave it seems to be that you either get these rewards or you don't, and never will.

To be fair to nightwave however - the MAJORITY of the challenges can be done quickly, don't need to be done in a day (you have a week), many are things you would already be doing, and many can be overlapped.

If one decides to wait until sunday noon then tries to cram all the nightwave tasks in before reset, well they're going to hate life. 

but if you look at the challenges you can overlap them: Nightmare+Spy, Nightmare+capture, or find syndicate medallions + kill enemies with xyz damage, open relics + x mission type + y damage type etc.  This weeks on XBone for example took me 3 hours to finish the weeks worth of stuff.  and in addition to completing the challenges I was also finishing levelling some garbage gear, farming an extra set of equinox etc.

 

If people do things inefficiently, they can't complain about how long and what a grind it is.  So if they chose to do 10 nightmare defense missions for the nightmare missions which are slow to finish, didn't bring the right damage type for the kill x enemies with challenge, then did 10 slow mobile defense missions for the relic runs, etc etc... well that's on them.

I agree that "not getting them this season" sucks -as I'm in that boat with the forma since I shelved the game for 3 months and didn't even bother to login after farming atmo systems for hours and not getting any, then didn't come back to warframe until nightwave was well underway.

[SordidDreams]

Games are all about rewards, always have been. Try playing a version of Tetris that doesn't display or record your score, see how fun that is. "Gameplay for gameplay's sake" is total BS, games need rewards to be fun.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

Games are all about rewards, always have been. Try playing a version of Tetris that doesn't display or record your score, see how fun that is. "Gameplay for gameplay's sake" is total BS, games need rewards to be fun.

Wait people care about those in tetris? You play tetris for that kick ass tune, the hell you on about?