youtube video claims it's for the majority of users but since I have no soapbox I can't refute it

[Orblit]

Didn't know this person existed...huh

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Legion-Shields]

.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Legion-Shields

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

3 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

Remember when DE listened to the Design Council instead of content creators? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 

3 hours ago, Zenviscerator said:

Remember when the design council actually did anything besides naming a warframe?

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

I don't think even Pepperidge Farm remembers at this point.

oof 

 

but 

not

wrong 

[EmberStar]

56 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

>synergistic play styles that are mutually beneficial for all involved

 

That kind of relies on the assumption that random players will make any attempt at "synergistic playstyles."  My experience has largely been that you'll get a team with *maybe* one or two people who make any attempt to defend the objective or even slightly work together.  More often, I'll be the only one trying to guard the Excavator, often with a warframe not really suited for it because I don't enjoy playing Frost.  And a team full of Hallway Heroes that are either nowhere to be seen, or are actually off starting every *other* excavator and then leaving it to die because they MUST get the highest Damage Done and Enemies Killed scores at the end of the mission.

I have almost never lucked into random teams that are making any attempt to be mutually beneficial.  A "good" random team will consist of four players who can solo the same mission at the same time.  An average random team will have *maybe* two players who can handle it, and two more who aren't actively screwing it up.  Most often I'll get a team where no one else even slightly cares that they are in a mission with *anyone* else.  They just do whatever, ignoring the mission objectives or shared affinity or anything else.  The instant they reach their *personal* goal (leveled up a weapon, ran out of the kind of relic they wanted to farm, remembered it's a day with a vowel in the name) they'll extract.  Every once in a while I'll get teamed with people who apparently know each other and decided it's funny to wait until the last second on the relic timer to extract because lulz, host migration for U!!

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, Legion-Shields said:

This is what happens when you watch someone who isn’t LifeofRio. Come into the Light.

Did you really need to quote the entire post to add one line?  And a meme, at that?  o.O

[YazMatazO]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

>synergistic play styles that are mutually beneficial for all involved

If you're going to blatantly ignore what I'm saying then you're not really worth my time.

We have plenty of content that encourages co-op but most of it is possible solo. When you're at end game and can throw numbers at everything to win then of course co-op is going to decline for you. This is a skewn perception that many veterans of the game have.
Excavations, Eidolons, Survivals, Defenses, Kuva Survival-- a small sampling of game modes that have plenty of encouragement to co-operate with other players both to make the mission go smoother and to get more loot since you can last longer or repeat the mission even faster.

Stop trying to decouple the idea of, "co-op," from the core gameplay loop in order to make your point.

Here is what you wrote. 

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

Yeah, I definitely only mentioned loot.

Efficiency doesn't just refer to loot. It also refers to synergistic playstyles that are mutually beneficial for all involved. I can't buff myself with Smite Infusion. It's a dead augment for a primarily solo player like myself.
You are rewarded in both gameplay and in loot obtained for playing in a party. Even if you all go hallway hero you still end up with more spawns meaning you progress faster.

In what context am I ignoring what you said? Maybe I am taking you too much on your word, no? Maybe I should assume that you mean something else, as well, whereas I only respond to what you typed black on white. You admit you are primarily a solo player. As far as I understand you say that efficiency also means co-op play(how?), but then you give an example of a co-op mod which you say is dead...? Why? 

You also admit that you mentioned loot only in the first place. Whereas the point I make is that neither of these things constitutes actual co-op game-play, hence the reason why I agree that co-op is in the decline in Warframe. 

Before swinging a bit too much in a direction, maybe read what you yourself have typed...?

Edited May 22, 2019 by YazMatazO

[Legion-Shields]

Just now, EmberStar said:

Did you really need to quote the entire post to add one line?  And a meme, at that?  o.O

 

Sshhh

[Orblit]

Just now, EmberStar said:

Did you really need to quote the entire post to add one line?  And a meme, at that?  o.O

Double post

[Chipputer]

1 minute ago, EmberStar said:

That kind of relies on the assumption that random players will make any attempt at "synergistic playstyles."

There's more to the concept of co-op than just jumping into a random mission. You can invite anyone you want to.

[Chipputer]

1 minute ago, YazMatazO said:

Here is what you wrote. 

And here's what you wrote:

You come back to me by saying that playing together with other people is more efficient in terms of, I suppose, grinding, to put it simply. Co-op and grinding is not the same thing, mate.

See? I can do that too.

You're purposefully decoupling the idea of co-op from the core gameplay loop in order to say that it's declining when there's plenty of examples that it isn't. I specifically mentioned synergistic playstyles, as a concept, because I didn't think I would need to mention the obvious ways you can work together with a squad to push forward into missions.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

3 hours ago, Zenviscerator said:

Remember when the design council actually did anything besides naming a warframe?

Remember when DE would actually name a warframe based on what the design council said?

I'm looking at you, Gara.

[seprent]

Just now, Legion-Shields said:

Sshhh

idk if your serious or not about life of rio but i cannot watch him he ticks my pet peeve so hard it makes me angry to watch him 

he takes way to long to get to the point i remember watching one video of his i cant remember i could try to find it but i had a question given to me by its thumbnail and i waited a whole 5 minutes though utter nonsense to have him get to he point. Normally im ok with some fluff before getting to the point if i believe it explains or expands it after a minute of it just became nonsense of making noises and voices on a tangent stalling the point of the video. now that i get abit annoyed thinking about it i think it was when he interviewed rebecca or something like it was 15 minutes or something that could be condensed into 5 if he was able to get to the point with minimal tangents 

i was so frustrated i utterly blacklisted him from my mind as a time waster and if i hear his voice i tune him out faster then you can say grakata 

[EmberStar]

6 minutes ago, Orblit said:

Double post
 

And your Reeeee! meme is larger AND more distracting than my two posts in a row.  Congrats for that.  I respond to posts as I update the page and find one I choose to respond to.  Not my fault that no one else replied in between, and not my problem that you dislike it.

[Chipputer]

1 minute ago, seprent said:

idk if your serious or not about life of rio but i cannot watch him he ticks my pet peeve so hard it makes me angry to watch him 

Hot take:

Rio starting every video with some, "cool tips," on mental health and well being actually annoys me to no end and is purposefully there so he can fire back with, "I'm out here spreading positivity, why are you trying to bring me down?"

[--END--Rikutatis]

 

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

>synergistic play styles that are mutually beneficial for all involved

If you're going to blatantly ignore what I'm saying then you're not really worth my time.

We have plenty of content that encourages co-op but most of it is possible solo. When you're at end game and can throw numbers at everything to win then of course co-op is going to decline for you. This is a skewn perception that many veterans of the game have.
Excavations, Eidolons, Survivals, Defenses, Kuva Survival-- a small sampling of game modes that have plenty of encouragement to co-operate with other players both to make the mission go smoother and to get more loot since you can last longer or repeat the mission even faster.

Stop trying to decouple the idea of, "co-op," from the core gameplay loop in order to make your point.

 

I think it's a terminology issue here, at least for what I was talking about earlier (I know this response wasn't directed at me tho). Ignoring what iflynn said, I personally believe WF is a game that does very little to encourage players to play with each other in a coordinated way, communicating and all that stuff. 

Coop is indeed a very broad term, it's benefitial to have a full squad in WF in several instances, like survival for more enemy spawns and thus more life support drops, relic fissures to get more prime parts to choose from at the end, or affinity farm to again get more spawns and leech more affinity. But none of that requires much interaction with the other players. You might as well be playing the game with bots. You go into a public match, ignore everyone (save the odd revive here or there), do your own thing, then rush to extraction to wait for the others. Most of the time you didn't even need them for success, you can carry the whole thing solo, you just used them for better drops or spawns.

And none of that encourages communication, coordination, etc. The sort of thing that is at core of content like raids (trials used to have a lot of that, sadly it got removed from the game). Atm the only content in WF that encourages more coordination and communication is speedrunning tridolons in a night cycle. And a lot of people really enjoy this sort of content in coop and MMO-like games, and it certainly adds to the social aspect and longevity of the game. 

[Chipputer]

1 minute ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

And none of that encourages communication, coordination, etc. The sort of thing that is at core of content like raids (trials used to have a lot of that, sadly it got removed from the game). Atm the only content in WF that encourages more coordination and communication is speedrunning tridolons in a night cycle. And a lot of people really enjoy this sort of content in coop and MMO-like games, and it certainly adds to the social aspect and longevity of the game. 

I wouldn't say just that. Regardless of communication, taking a Nekros to a survival while someone else takes a Saryn is co-operation. Taking a Frost to a defense when you see someone else taking a Nova is co-operation. Again, a lot of us are at the point we can just throw numbers at the game and win so co-op is entirely optional for us. The game wasn't built to sustain people in our position.

It's difficult to co-ordinate on the fly with random pubs in literally any game out there. That doesn't suddenly mean the game is declining in co-operative content.

[EmberStar]

I bring Nova to Defense if I happen to feel like playing Nova.  I'm not contributing anything to "coordination" aside from not dying.  Why?  Because apparently, the only Nova is SpeedNova, which is a build style I utterly refuse to use.  So when I'm playing Nova in a defense, I'm probably not using powers AT ALL.  Because the only way to get communication from team mates is to fire off a max duration, full power strength Molecular Prime.  (The communication will be how you're a terrible player who should jump face first into a blender while setting yourself on fire, but at least someone WILL have said something.)

[Chipputer]

4 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

I bring Nova to Defense if I happen to feel like playing Nova.  I'm not contributing anything to "coordination" aside from not dying.  Why?  Because apparently, the only Nova is SpeedNova, which is a build style I utterly refuse to use.  So when I'm playing Nova in a defense, I'm probably not using powers AT ALL.  Because the only way to get communication from team mates is to fire off a max duration, full power strength Molecular Prime.  (The communication will be how you're a terrible player who should jump face first into a blender while setting yourself on fire, but at least someone WILL have said something.)

Yeah. But, again, you're not limited to only pub missions and if you bring a Slowva to Hydron then you are, effectively, playing counter to the goal of the squad.

Seriously. A pre-made squad is a thing. Co-operation on the fly is a difficult thing to accomplish for anyone, let alone a group of 4 random people from around the world with possibly different goals, but you can still do plenty to facilitate it.

[ThumpumGood]

First- I dont watch tubers. They never have anything to say I want to hear. If I need hints, I watch with sound OFF and scroll thru til I see what Im looking for.
Second- the obvious triggering by what this guy had to say is unnecessary. He doesnt like it? Fine.
Third- I dont care what anyone has to say about WF. I like it. Other than console games, I have yet to play a PC game this much. I like it.
And last, I've literally played thousands of games and know what I like. Since games are expensive, I wait til they have a free test run and see if I like it before I buy it. I have 2100+ hours in WF. Im MR27. Im at the point where acquiring any new weapons is locked by login, event and Baro. And I STILL find fin things to do. And some not so fun. I solo for 2 reasons- first on sorties because I hate fails and second because when Im farming, I dont want to have some one getting bored and dragging me out of my farm. After that, I play with friends  to help them farm for things. That takes up less than 25% of my game play. The rest is PUGs. Annoying as hell sometimes but the MM in MMO is massively multiplayer and if you arent up for that, get a single player game.

PS- I would have stopped watching the video about 30 seconds in because with the way he opened, you knew it was going to be a bash fest.

[Sloan441]

7 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Yeah. But, again, you're not limited to only pub missions and if you bring a Slowva to Hydron then you are, effectively, playing counter to the goal of the squad.

 

Incoming thread derail...3...2...1...

Yeah, because killing the team with speed amped enemies is a good thing! Granted, this probably won't happen on Hydron under normal circumstances, but it is what will happen if the speed Nova's buffs to the enemies can't be counteracted in a more serious environment--and I have seen people bring this nonsense to third wave PuG sorties. 

The goal is to score some relics, maybe level something up, and live to tell about it. A proper Nova does this just fine without any needless drama. 

[EmberStar]

5 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Yeah. But, again, you're not limited to only pub missions and if you bring a Slowva to Hydron then you are, effectively, playing counter to the goal of the squad.

Seriously. A pre-made squad is a thing. Co-operation on the fly is a difficult thing to accomplish for anyone, let alone a group of 4 random people from around the world with possibly different goals, but you can still do plenty to facilitate it.

Premade / invite only squads are a thing in general, yes.  Not for me personally.  I know exactly no one who plays this game, and therefore have no one to invite (or be invited by.)  Warframe's chat systems are abysmal, and I do not use them unless I absolutely must.  (Trade Chat rarely, to purchase syndicate weapons or mods when new ones are released.  Recruit chat almost never.)  In the unlikely event I'm in a random team, I "cooperate" by trying to focus on the objective (usually keeping the Defense target alive, since Defense Fissure Missions are about the only thing I'll intentionally team up for) and not actively antagonizing other players.  If someone complains that I'm playing Nova and NOT casting Molecular Prime, I'll cast it once and then state "That's why I'm not casting it."

Nova with incredibly high duration and power strength and Adaptation happens to be a fairly durable tanking build.  The Null Star augment means I can replace them without needing to use Molecular Prime, which is the build I'd bring to any mission where I'm teaming with anyone.  If I'm alone I'll use the augment that causes them to replenish when Prime-coated enemies are killed, to take advantage of the fact that the enemies are moving in slow motion and heavily debuffed.

[seprent]

24 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Hot take:

Rio starting every video with some, "cool tips," on mental health and well being actually annoys me to no end and is purposefully there so he can fire back with, "I'm out here spreading positivity, why are you trying to bring me down?"

that bit i aint got not problem with that just talks about shirts and then just rambles im just a kinda of person for when i ask a question id like a answer pretty soon even if its wait a bit so i know what to do listen or wait with him its the frustration of why am i listening to you ramble and make random voices when you could be talking about why were all here. just irks me as a person i dont like wasting time when there are thing we could be discussing 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

38 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

I wouldn't say just that. Regardless of communication, taking a Nekros to a survival while someone else takes a Saryn is co-operation. Taking a Frost to a defense when you see someone else taking a Nova is co-operation. Again, a lot of us are at the point we can just throw numbers at the game and win so co-op is entirely optional for us. The game wasn't built to sustain people in our position.

It's difficult to co-ordinate on the fly with random pubs in literally any game out there. That doesn't suddenly mean the game is declining in co-operative content.

This.

[Zyga21]

1 hour ago, Chappie1975 said:

I can understand some of what you did...but this was not the way to go about it.   You rarely went after his points with real counters....you were dismissive or you went after him.  If you think that is a good idea....well, no wonder the world seems crappy to you.  It is like the white person saying there is no racism because you don't see it.  It is like man saying women are treated equally because you were never on the other side of the coin.   Your lack of empathy just is not cool.

Thanks for the personal attack but I can wholly disagree with this; When did I "go after him" anywhere? the only dismissive comment I made about him was when he was complaining that DE doesn't listen to him, if all of his opinions are like this I really hope that DE doesn't listen to what he has to say. What in this case qualifies as a real counter? If I'm bringing up a counter point of why it's not exactly right or completely wrong, that's a counterpoint.

Onto the personal attack; I don't see the world as crappy, I do have empathy, and neither of those relates to this at all. It's not very cool to attack people on things you obviously have no idea about.

1 hour ago, Chappie1975 said:

Nitpicking at timestamps is poor form

No it's not, I'm providing points of reference, that's pretty important if you want to give the other side its voice even if they can't respond.

1 hour ago, Chappie1975 said:

At the end you stated "I really hope that one of them can give me a good reason why the game is trash" blatantly indicated you won't be shifted from your stance unless there is some overwhelming example that YOU AGREE with. 

Untrue, I'm totally open to other opinions and I opened this thread seeking viewpoints from other sides, so far this has produced 2 arguments from the single player side, and a few from veteran players feeling the same sentiment, and that is exactly what I wanted to see. I want to see why I'm wrong in the way I'm thinking. The bar is incredibly low to try and convince me because I'm not stuck in my own idea about how the game can be played.

1 hour ago, Chappie1975 said:

But did iFlynn ever say the game was trash...no he didn't.  You implied he stated that...again being downright crappy attacking the person.

He said it was trash compared to the game it once was, again someone said that he covered his arguments by saying that he's not trying to attack the game, but just because someone says "I'm not trying to be a buttface" doesn't make them any less of a buttface, it just tells me that they're ignorant about being a buttface. They still are, he still dislikes the current game regardless of him saying he doesn't it's obvious by the fact he can't play for more than an hour and has to make a video complaining about the game.

And I'm not attacking him personally anywhere, I'm attacking his argument that the game is garbage.
 

1 hour ago, Chappie1975 said:

For the people going after thumbnails/titles...blame YT.   You are being disingenuous by being willfully ignorant of what it takes to survive on YT.  The current algorithm almost demands thumbnails of a certain type and click-baity titles.  If you do not do this...you will fade away from YT.  You could say the most intelligent things known to man which would result in the cure for cancer.  But if your title is boring and so is your thumbnail...welcome to oblivion

This is nihilism. Things can change if enough people try to change it.

 

1 hour ago, Chappie1975 said:

What is relevant is that his stance was cohesive and well written.  He put significant effort into making that video.

Effort does not make you right, he has a platform and experience with making youtube videos and probably wrote a script, I took about 20 minutes making a post on a forum because I wanted to see the other side of it. My work is not going in front of a million plus people.

1 hour ago, Chappie1975 said:

Instead, lets just pick one person and one video and use this as a landmark example taken out of context to degrade everything he has done and others have done in order to make your point.

again I haven't personally attacked him but I won't lie, from this one video I don't intend on watching his other content

 

1 hour ago, Chappie1975 said:

Maybe i'm wrong...but history is telling me otherwise since you played "the victim" card.

.What am I a victim of?

 

 

At all of this I was deciding whether or not to respond to this entirely, but I feel like for the sake of a discussion it's important to at least acknowledge it, even though there's so many issues with it. But I don't think it's going to be worth the effort because I doubt you'll respond (This is not a personal attack at you just so to be very clear, this is an attack at your argument).

[YazMatazO]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

And here's what you wrote:

 

 

See? I can do that too.

You're purposefully decoupling the idea of co-op from the core gameplay loop in order to say that it's declining when there's plenty of examples that it isn't. I specifically mentioned synergistic playstyles, as a concept, because I didn't think I would need to mention the obvious ways you can work together with a squad to push forward into missions.

Because co-op gameplay and rewards based on having more people present are not one and the same thing. Hence my point, and agreement with the initial idea made in the video that co-op is declining. 

I am purposefully decoupling the idea of co-op gameplay from the core gameplay loop because there is little of it to be found in the game, other than the early levels when you're still exploring the star map, unless you're willing to take more loot and xp as a basis of co-op gameplay, which I unambiguously won't ever do. And I am glad that I made that point clear, because the two are not the same thing. Once again, the initial mention was that there is less desire to play together with other people. I support that notion, and I think it's worthy of it being looked into by the devs. Saying that it's a co-op game because you get more loot and xp is not the same as having to go together in order to get the loot and xp in the first place.