(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) Wisp Feedback

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Wisps Breach Surge doesn’t seem to work properly on console. It almost never spawns a surge spark even when the enemy is killed and the spawn rate on that is supposed to be 100%.

[RagingPavillion]

Wisp is awesome.  She has very cool and balanced kit, imo.  I kinda hope they'd allow her to erupt Breach Surge from nearby active Reservoirs and cause some sort of chain reaction but I guess this would be a bit op since it would extend her 3's range by a lot.

[Cyberius_001]

There's something that's bothered me over the last month of sharing squads with Wisps, and I think I've finally figured it all out. To sum it up, I find her "obnoxiously useful," and here's why:

• I've had to quit playing Garuda in star chart level content because I am completely incapable of using my passive to double the damage my ult does. This problem is also true when I run with oberons, but they're much less common, and hasn't kept me from using her before.
• I've also had to quit using single secondary/glaive dual wielding, as the timing to get a "charged throw" which deals much greater damage is affected by haste motes, and in most cases the haste is so strong, I only have one or two frames before I miss the release window, and it's also much shorter of a hold time than I have in my muscle memory.
• I've got several frames where I've either tuned their sprinting speed to hold pace with certain things, like Hacked Drones, or have it significantly boosted already, to the point where I can just barely control my movement. Any time I nick a haste mote by a Wisp wanting to help, I've got to spend the next 30-60 seconds paying careful attention to my movement instead of killing things as I go.
• Unless I'm playing a super tanky frame (valkyr, inaros, rhino, nezha), I'm always moving, and after more than a few minutes in a mission, the frequent searing hiss noises of bullet jumping through a mote's effect area, whether I've already got the buff or not, starts to grate on my nerves.

The few times I've asked a Wisp to move a mote, they're usually understanding, but I always feel bad to do so, because as a Limbo player from before his "tweak", I know how it feels to be on the receiving end of someone being frustrated by your choice in warframe. I'm not sure entirely how to make my encounters with Wisp players be a better one, but being able to opt out of buffs would be a step in the right direction. Maybe something like the "aim and roll backwards" that's in place for Volt's Speed, but the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to wish this game had a list of buffs I could permanently opt out of, so that Vauban orbs wouldn't stick to me or catapult me off the map, or Nova wormholes pointed away from extract couldn't keep me from leaving.

Anyway, thanks DE for another wonderful addition to my arsenal, and I hope at some point I can stop from being irritated every time a Wisp is in my squad that isn't me.

[--RV--Dopekoke]

Energy conversion does not work with her motes even though they work on other device drop abilities like vauban and khora.  Also when you have a melee weapon out, she walks and runs like a normal warframe instead of floating.  A QoL needs to be done on her number 2.

[RagingPavillion]

Can her 2's distance traveled also be shown in the UI?  I'm not that good with measuring distance visually specially in games aside from that it can help in timing when to cast Breach Surge.

[megamino]

On 2019-06-16 at 9:02 PM, Maka.Bones said:

Why can't a warframe do both support, and attack/damage? Look at rhino, chroma, harrow, and octavia. 

we need more vauban type like, not another thing that only rely on ult to go on...

[Maka.Bones]

6 hours ago, megamino said:

we need more vauban type like, not another thing that only rely on ult to go on...

But wisp doesn't only rely on her ult. Wisp and Garuda, are the only warframes in which I feel a need to actively use all of their abilities. 

Besides there's a good reason why people keep requesting for a vauban rework, and why DE said that "CC alone isn't effective in warframe"

Edit: I'm not complaining that people want more healing/support, or improving her existing abilities, or letting her teleport team members... but her ult is fun AF and it doesn't abuse the game like most ults. If anything, some players complained because it doesn't nuke everything like they wanted it to. She has a good damage/support/cc balance, so how's that a bad thing? She's basically a caster/mage. 

I honestly just don't understand why some people want to *only* be support, or *only* dps, or only [insert thing here]... there are already warframes like that, so why not play those instead of taking away something fun from this one? But adding an augment to also make Sol Gate heal, sure that sounds cool because it's an option we can choose from. Like these are all cool ideas, but she was just released lol.... so why do some players already want to change her into something more basic? 

I don't see why some players don't/can't enjoy the diversity wisp has to offer... But hey if DE wants to make her even more fun, then that sounds great! 😁

Edited June 23, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[megamino]

23 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

But wisp doesn't only rely on her ult. Wisp and Garuda, are the only warframes in which I feel a need to actively use all of their abilities. 

Besides there's a good reason why people keep requesting for a vauban rework, and why DE said that "CC alone isn't effective in warframe"

Edit: I'm not complaining that people want more support abilities, or improving her ability to heal, or the CC of her 3, or letting her teleport team members... but her ult is fun AF and it doesn't abuse the game like most ults. If anything, some players complained because it doesn't nuke everything like they wanted it to. She has a good damage/support balance, so I don't understand why people some people don't enjoy that? 

I honestly just don't understand why some people want to *only* be support or *only* dps... dps are already warframes that do that, so why not play those instead of taking away something fun from this one? But adding an augment to also make it heal, sure that sounds cool because it's an option we can choose from. Like these are all cool ideas, but she was just released lol.... so why do some players already want to change her into something they understand better, instead of enjoying her as her own unique thing? 

I don't see why some players don't/can't enjoy the diversity wisp has to offer... But hey if DE changes her into something even more fun, then I'm all for it 😁

I only play her for a while now, but i thoroughly enjoy wukong rework rather than wisp.

Now, i am not arguing or anything please don't get me wrong but for me i had enough of anything DPS, i prefer vauban rework to not include damage ability in his ult like everybody else. For me, vauban still relevan either for solo or for team (most importantly) now, why support only? Well look at trinity, she doesn't have any damaging ability yet she is very useful in the team but i rarely play her because i am solo-ist kind of player. I cannot rely on her support for 1 man show isn't it? It's just me OK? But i can play vauban up until now without problem and i think DE is not giving vauban rework any priority because Vauban still works these days and age with whatever warframe came out, Vauban still came up strong with his kit (also his ult is not damaging ability, please reconsider if you think that).

Now what we know about wisp? unseen, invisible, misty anything... DE achieve that by her passive but not into her kit. That's what i want to say also with wisp. Passive alone is not that "interesting" it needs synergy with her kit (at least). Wisp also can be cloned (i think mist can separate himself right? For me 1 wukong rework should be possible with wisp). I prefer wisp as a stealth frame joining loki and ash... HEHEHEHEHEHEH

For me, wisp is a nice frame but not that interesting for me as a solo-ist player. For now, i am enjoying the wukong rework. 🙂

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, megamino said:

~~snip~~

🙂

Yeah the wukong rework is great, and I do agree that vauban is still solid. I do think he could use more versatility, but I think that people overexagerate reworks because the popular thing is to kill everything quickly. But just because wukong is great (and he has damage, stealth, and healing... Like wisp) or just because Trinity is full support, doesn't mean that wisp needs to be full support or full cc xD

I think the reason they made wisp invisible while jumping, is because wisps in stories often disappear and reappear somewhere else nearby. It's like they're jumping in-between dimensions and coming back elsewhere (like when you observe fireflies, or her passive). 

Btw, whenever you use wisp's 2 she's also invisible throughout the entire duration... yes, even while shooting her sun-beam. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~previous ideas~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There was another tenno who also suggested a lot of amazing ideas to help wisp perform better for stealth/solo gameplay. 

These are a few ideas Teridax68 suggested:

-Reservoirs: Allowing party members to use reservoirs for teleportation in-between each reservoir; option to consolidate all the reservoirs for more versatility in placement

- shock reservoir: shocking enemies, if they're not in combat

- Will-o-Wisp: longer duration, having the option to keep it still in one place; not drawing aggro if enemies aren't already in combat 

- breach surge: making it able to cast while Sol Gate is active, and drawing nearby enemies in. 

 

A lot of other players also suggested allowing us to through objects, at a limited range. (When using her 3, to tele-p to reservoirs) which would help a lot for spy missions or solo play. 

I also suggested giving us a way to keep one permanently summoned, so it's not replaced as we cycle through placing new buffs. 

Also a "nozzle" function of Sol Gate, so we had more control of the radius shape/RoF/damage (it would give players the ability to have faster RoF if they want, bit less radius... Or slower RoF but wider radius, like a flamethrower) since so many players also asked for faster RoF for sol gate

So yeah I'm not against new ideas/improvements... It's just that I don't understand why some players want to change her current concept altogether into something more "cookiecutter" that already exists. Wukong's rework is fun because he's versatile and synergistic, and part of wisp's strength/fun comes from that. So why shun it? 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Maka.Bones
(I'm talking too much, because I'm sleepy x.x)

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Here's a thought, just a thought.

For the breach surge teleport... Could we maybe tap the button when highlighting a specific reservoir for teleportation to that reservoir, or, hold down the breach surge button and just instantly teleport to which ever one is closest to you if you need to quickly get out of a situation...

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

On 2019-06-19 at 11:17 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Wisps Breach Surge doesn’t seem to work properly on console. It almost never spawns a surge spark even when the enemy is killed and the spawn rate on that is supposed to be 100%.

It is bugged. It will be fixed in the next update were getting that's currently in cert. Iirc. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

It is bugged. It will be fixed in the next update were getting that's currently in cert. Iirc. 

It’s not bugged. We just didn’t get the most recent version of Wisp. 

[Dimio]

Wisp is a very satisfying support frame to play and the changes i would like to see to her is primarily QOL to give her a bit more of a niche than just being another buff frame.

Reservoirs is arguably her strongest ability and other than maybe letting shock trigger around the reservoir itself i don't think this ability needs anything. It does feel a bit iffy on certain game modes where you are either moving a lot or want to place more than 2 (3 if skipping shock) "buff stations" but this is where i think an augment mod would be an actually relevant fix which i will suggest at the end. One thing i would like to see though and this applies to all present and future frames with permanent deployables; let her remove a currently placed reservoir by casting the same type in the aoe of a currently placed one (being tied to "remove last" is not a good mechanic).

Will-o-wisp is a fine ability that has a lot of different uses and it probably better than people are giving it credit for. The only thing i would change here is make the "on hold" wisp faster since when holding it is purely for mobility but it does not feel fast enough to use over simply parkour.

Breach surge i would like to see two additions to, first let the sparks be able to trigger more sparks on hit/kill.

Secondly and most importantly i would like to see Wisp get the ability to hold down her 3 which will show the locations of her reservoirs though terrain and let her teleport to them. This will give her a utility which currently does not exist; being able to appear at preset locations and easily backtrack. Right now the teleport part of this ability is basically  just a "i guess i can cast it on this mote next to me to get some aoe" since the inability to target though terrain means it is irrelevant indoors, and in openworld we have itzal. Since this is only a "return" ability, it will not let you get to somewhere faster unless you are in the openworld where the relevant locations are random anyway. It would let you get back out of spy vaults, return to find enemies behind you in exterminate, assist the other locations in interception or openworld, get back to trigger spawns on defection and so on. 

Sol gate, i don't have much to say here, it's a cool ability but not what i am looking for on a support frame. It's good at applying conditions for CO but the low tick-rate and the deactivation with the jerk-back animation just makes it annoying to use. Why is the pushback on closing the gate anyway? would it not make more sense to be when you open the massive beam of solar energy? I would like for it to be more of a "target takes increased damage" rather than "sol damage amps up" but that is all i can really think of to change.

Finally with these suggestions i would like to see a augment mod for Reservoirs, i call it "omni mote" and all it does is add a reservoir which will apply all the mote buffs at once. This will let Wisp cover a much larger area with buffs and let her only need to place a single one for the full effect on mobile mission types.

One thing that feels great when playing Wisp is that people are actively seeking out your buffs when they know what they do/what to look for and if you don't want the buff for whatever reason then avoiding the reservoirs is normally possible.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s not bugged. We just didn’t get the most recent version of Wisp. 

Yeye. I remembered wrong 

[Prekatt]

Wisp's Reservoirs interact with temporary power strength bonuses (such as from Growing Power, Pax Bolt, Energy Conversion, Parasitic Link, ect.) uniquely.  I personally love how it works, but have seen several posts with a different opinion.  As I just spent awhile voicing my feelings about it on one of said posts, I though that I'd provide a link to it here as it's also relevant.

Outside of that, Wisp is a super fun and effective support frame.  Great work as always, DE!  😄

[(XBOX)RPColten]

The speed modifier from the Haste reservoir needs a Volt treatment of manual removal. Speed modifiers, especially if they effect your attack speed, have strong potential to be a debuff to the player.

Needing to wait for the modifier to count down, only for it to be so easily reapplied by entering a very generously sized zone plays out poorly.

 

It's the one black mark I've experienced since the release. Fun to play as, not so fun to play in a squad where someone else is Wisp. So many Haste reservoirs.

[ShadowFel]

I'm liking Wisp quite a bit so far, up there with Garuda and Revenant for fun frames to play for me.  My only real complaints right now are that Surge Sparks from Breach Surge can't cause additional Surge Sparks (an understandable balancing decision, I just wish that they could), and that Wil-o-Wisp interrupts reloading.  I feel that Wil-o-Wisp shouldn't interrupt reloads on the basis that it is an ability without a casting animation, like Volt's Speed and Saryn's Molt, and so should adhere to what the player can do during such abilities.

[Maka.Bones]

After playing her for a while, i'll admit that wisp definitely feels clunky without natural talent... This doesn't bother me, because it's already a core part of my build, but it honestly almost feels mandatory for wisp. So It might be good to increase her overall casting animation speed by 20% because new players who bought her with plat, might not have access to "cast speed" mods for a long time.  You could also just make the haste reservoir, also increase her cast speed.

 

Also please bring back the old concept of individual reservoir AoE effects, when using breach surge. Or just give reservoirs an AoE debuff, for enemies passing through them. Edit: I mean in addition to the increased range for the blind... or just increase the base blind range, and add these combo-effects instead

- breach surge on a health reservoir, can also AoE burst heal for our allies & npcs

- on a haste mote, AoE slow on enemies

- on a shock mote, AoE damage+status on enemies

This would give us more "support" options, like some of the other players were asking for. 

 

I'd personally love it, if we could teleport through objects and through enemies with "breach surge" and if we could teleport into other wisp's reservoirs. Currently multiple wisps don't have any synergy with each other; there's no use/need for more than one wisp in a team. So It would be awesome if we could at least synergize by teleporting into each other's reservoirs.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Hekkatos]

Positive

I love her, she's become one of my favourite frames since playing her.
Her 3 is great for giving yourself a little breathing room to lay out her reservoirs and the way breach surge combos with the reservoirs is great, I use it a lot.
Personally I never use her 2 or 4 but it looks like a lot of people do which makes her good for different play styles.

Critique

One thing I've noticed is that Frosts bubble blocks her ability to zip to any reservoir inside it with breach surge. it doesn't block her 2 from passing through it though.
Maybe either block both or neither for the sake of consistency?

A suggestion for tweaking her teleport. hold 3 for a soft-lock that targets the reservoirs the same way peacemaker works. it would make it a lot quicker since I wouldn't have to be quite so precise when trying to aim at them or misfire like I sometimes do.

It's been said before but she needs her own run animation when wielding melee. it would take a bit or work to make a custom one that works with each melee weapon but she looks silly running around on her stumps.

sometimes I panic or miss hit keys when laying out her reservoirs and will put down the same one twice. it can be tricky trying to tell visually which ones are out. so could they get a bit more of an aura to make them more readable? alternatively a number beside their icons that says how many of that type are out could work too.

other than the first suggestion with Frost the rest are nitpicks.

Side Note

Her CC reservoir was a missed opportunity for a Vauban rework as it would have made a nice replacement for his shock trap but I'm not complaining.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Hekkatos

[Maka.Bones]

There's a random bug going on, where reservoirs aren't updated by your stats. 

here's a few screenshots of my hase mote buffing me for a different value than it should be, and it also had a different duration than my health mote whenever I left the buff

  

Edited June 28, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

I would like to first state I really hate how moderators literally force any wisp feedback into this one thread to make legitimate concerns easier to ignore. Someone out there has probably found some kind of bug that ruins the game and nobody knows about ti because it's buried eyebrow deep under THIRTY SIX PAGES.... But I digress.

First off. I would like to request that either 1... either You make things like syandanas have their own solid physics so that things like Wisp's scrarf ends won't protrude through them, or have wisp's back scarves removable like Khora's spikes are removable.... I wouldn't mind the ability to remove her *gestures vaguely*... Not sure what to call that... Her dress?... Anyway would be nice for customization reasons if you could choose if you want those details to show or not.....

Appearances aside.... I'm going to say what many other people have said.... The four really needs work.... Maybe do something like the ignis where it does area of effect damage where it impacts? Among other issues it's just really frigging hard to aim because you can't see what it's hitting so you need that area of effect...

[Shadedraxe]

On 2019-06-23 at 1:02 AM, Maka.Bones said:

But wisp doesn't only rely on her ult. Wisp and Garuda, are the only warframes in which I feel a need to actively use all of their abilities. 

Besides there's a good reason why people keep requesting for a vauban rework, and why DE said that "CC alone isn't effective in warframe"

Edit: I'm not complaining that people want more healing/support, or improving her existing abilities, or letting her teleport team members... but her ult is fun AF and it doesn't abuse the game like most ults. If anything, some players complained because it doesn't nuke everything like they wanted it to. She has a good damage/support/cc balance, so how's that a bad thing? She's basically a caster/mage. 

I honestly just don't understand why some people want to *only* be support, or *only* dps, or only [insert thing here]... there are already warframes like that, so why not play those instead of taking away something fun from this one? But adding an augment to also make Sol Gate heal, sure that sounds cool because it's an option we can choose from. Like these are all cool ideas, but she was just released lol.... so why do some players already want to change her into something more basic? 

I don't see why some players don't/can't enjoy the diversity wisp has to offer... But hey if DE wants to make her even more fun, then that sounds great! 😁

You got it right on the nose there for me. Part of wisp’s appeal to me is her VERSATILITY!!!

She has really good team buffs (people can say whatever they want about her shock mote, but it’s an immensely superior version of Vauban’s 1. Hoping his next rework is a good one). Her 2 is 3/4rth’s of loki’s entire kit. Her 3 is an instantaneous cc with some pretty good damage spreading capabilities. And since it got buffed (although it may be a little costly to rely on too often) her ult actually can melt level 160 corrupted heavy gunners and bombards when used alongside the rest of her kit.

Not a lot of people seem to be aware that the ability continuously deals more damage the longer it lasts, has a 100% surge spark chance on surged enemies as opposed to 10%, and that the mote buffs boost its damage output further and helps you deal with armored enemies.

Oh, and her fluidity and ease of movement and casting is a BIG PLUS for me. Her abilities don’t fight one another and she can cast through all of her abilities in quick succession. I wish more warframes were as fluid as wisp. And her passive is just a great tool. Hopping out of enemy agro or staying virtually invisible forever has its uses. She’s definitely one of my favorite frames of all time! And I can’t understand the hate.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Shadedraxe

[Borg1611]

If I could change one thing about her it would still be giving her a less clunky way to drop all 3 motes. It's fine in defense missions where you're not moving around a lot, but having to cycle and hold to drop each one is obnoxious.

If they don't want to combine them all into a single drop maybe change it so that if you continue to hold her 1 after she drops a mote it drops the other 2 in quick succession without having to cycle manually? 

[Mu_Gera]

Sol gate still has a painfully slow tick rate, it's a good thing wisp has a high energy pool cause the amount wasted for only doing a couple ticks of damage is really lopsided. I think it might also negatively impact the damage ramp up.

[Maka.Bones]

21 hours ago, -Bv-Concarne said:

Sol gate still has a painfully slow tick rate, it's a good thing wisp has a high energy pool cause the amount wasted for only doing a couple ticks of damage is really lopsided. I think it might also negatively impact the damage ramp up.

I suggested a "nozzle" function/mechanic for this. 

Basically to let us use the mouse scroll, to control the rate of flow (tick rate) inversely to AoE radius & damage per hit. Zoom in for a tighter Lazer with more hits per second, but slightly less damage per hit. Zoom out for a slower & wider beam, with more DPH. Then we would have more control over the damage ramp up, without having to constantly shake our screen camera across enemies to artificially produce more tics.

Or they could just add casting speed to the haste mote, which would help her all around (and her teammates) 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Maka.Bones