Wukong Revisit

[DeMonkey]

Figured I'd post my initial thoughts after a bit of tomfoolery before I pass out.

Passive:

We have a precedent for frames with a very limited ability to self revive, Inaros. Inaros can self revive, however due to the limitations of this self revive he also has a second passive.

Simple solution to the valid complaints about the limited nature of his passive, make it so that it isn't his only passive, or make it so that it isn't so limited.

Wuclone:

Not much to say about it, I quite like it. There is a major flaw with it in regards to Nullifiers however. It's all well and good having him actually survive the bubble and charge the nullifier inside, but if you have Primal Fury equipped it's still considered an ability, which means it cannot damage the Nullifier whilst it's bubble is up. I've now watched several Wuclone's throw themselves at a Nullifier and just stand there waving their staff through it's body over and over again.

Besides that, and contrary to my earlier reservations, I think it's a good addition to his kit. He takes some heat off Wukong meaning the loss of immortality doesn't hit as hard, and deals adequate damage.

Edit: Whilst using a melee weapon the clone should take into consideration the reach of that melee weapon. If it's holding a 10m stick it should attack enemies from 10m away. Currently it will always run right up to an enemy to attack, which seems a bit daft.
The more I play the more important this becomes to me. The clone wastes so much time running to each and every single enemy that they're dead half the time before it arrives. It really needs to be attacking using the full length of the weapon.

Edit: With regards to the clone switching weapon to whatever you're not using, that's great and adds variety, but nothing adds more variety than choice. If there were some way of choosing which weapon the clone used, it would be far better QoL. As suggested by others, perhaps the targeting the ground or a wall instead of an enemy and pressing #1 could cause the clone to switch to the next weapon in the cycle Primary > Secondary > Melee (or Primal Fury). My own personal suggestion is that upon targetting an enemy the clone automatically swaps to whatever weapon you're currently holding.

Edit: As suggested by others, and something I agree with, it would be nice if targeting an enemy created an instant response from the clone, either by teleporting to somewhere where it can see the enemy (if using ranged) or teleporting to the enemy (if using melee).

Edit: The clone was supposed to come with a movement speed buff so that it would get to enemies quickly, however it seems to move just as fast if not slower than Wukong himself.

Source.

Cloudwalker:

Actually useful, I'm surprised. Whether I'm trying to reach the twit who brought severely underpowered gear to Mot or using it as a gap closer it does it's job and it does it fast. Unless that job is attacking from the cloud, which doesn't actually seem to work 95% of the time.

Not sure I see the point in having nerfed it's duration so extensively however. Using it for a longer period of time necessitates spamming #2 as the ability ends to immediately recast it. Perhaps if we held #2 whilst in the cloud it could refresh the duration, and use up energy depending on how much duration had to be refreshed?

Stops you from afking in the cloud, doesn't rely on energy per unit of distance moved (as that would drain damn fast) and still means that by default it's a quick re-positioning tool. It can just be extended somewhat for a further cost.

Edit: Moving around as the cloud can be incredibly difficult when your entire screen is taken up with a very pronounced cloud effect. Could the effect be toned down somewhat for the sake of visibility.

Defy:

I like the change, however I don't feel like it does... enough. Aside from a very quick taunt effect that's so short it's primary purpose is solely to fuel the spin damage/armour buff, it does nothing still. You get a bit tankier and that's it. The spin damage is largely irrelevant, as Primal Fury hits almost as far and far harder.

Quite simply I'd like the ability to do more,

• Perhaps the spin could create an AoE based on his usage of protective circles, providing allies with DR and/or status immunity or debuffing enemies.
• Wukong could generate heightened aggro on himself for the same duration as his armour buff, taking the heat off allies and objectives for a time. Not as powerful as the initial taunt effect, but enough to make a difference.

You get the idea, it needs to be more than just a minor taunt, an armour buff and a spin attack that can be accomplished with Primal Fury.

Edit: Due to the fact that this is the only ability range mods benefit it is still somewhat of a dump stat, thus rendering the spin attack even less effective. I propose that the base radius of the spin attack is the same as that of your staff, with an additional 5 metres. That additional 5 metres is what range mods affect, meaning if you really want to you could still build for range and have a huge swing on it, but without leaving the ability completely neutered in this respect if you choose not to build for it.

Primal Fury:

It's going to take me awhile to get used to, but my big initial complaint is regarding the "gap closer". It doesn't function as a gap closer. Slide attacks in Warframe have (generally speaking) been the best gap closers due to the minor coptering effect and the the fact that the attack affects a 360 degree area, meaning even if you slide past someone you can still hit them.

A vault and a poke on the other hand are... not it. Neither move you very far, and if you do move towards an enemy unless it's done perfectly you'll generally end up missing them. The slide attack with Primal Fury is.... by far superior, in every way. And for the longer gap closers we have Cloudwalker.

As a combo it's obsolete, and gets in the way of using my slams.

This bit I take back, as a gap closer this combo is obsolete. As a long range poke however... Mmm baby is it good. With Primed Reach you're hitting enemies 20 metres away. Honestly I'd say remove this combo, and make the stab attack the stance's charge attack but with better aim (you can only hit enemies on the same level as you currently).

Edit: The slams are also relatively obsolete now, as they don't actually travel as far as simply swinging the staff whilst also doing substantially less damage. If the radius of the slam were increased, and even affected by Primed Reach, it could be a useful bit of CC that would go some way to justifying the energy cost of Primal Fury, and give the weapon a reason to be used over a Zaw.

I like what I've played so far, and I'll update as I go.

Edited June 25, 2019 by DeMonkey

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I've been looking forward to this. 

As I am a console pleb and this is the first I've clicked on does his defy's attack knock down enemies it hits but doesn't kill? Because I think it would be quite nice to give him yet another cc effect. And also is it's damage or range effected by mods? 

 

Does cloud walker cleanse status or does it just wear off like what happens when you go into operator.

Could you clarify the bit about cloud walkers duration a bit more? It sounds like they changed how duration works with it from what you're saying. 

Final question. Does his poke vault attack with his 4 knock enemies down? (also do his slams do as well?) because if it can I could see using it purely for ground finisher access on tough enemies. 

 

If I have any more questions I'll ask later. Thanks in advance. 

[BlachWolf]

Its a good rework, though the passive is a bit lacking, since you can regen it. I would far more liked if it acted like khoras venari body guard, where you sacrifice your clone to stay alive and then have to wait for a cooldown run out in order to access it again, which you can decrease by killing enemies. Basically one free get out of jail card every 2 mins if you have your clone out. Defy is actually good for trash clearing, it easily deals with lvl 155 corrupted trash enemies like your crewmen and lancer, so it an ok ability which provides tankiness and crowd clearing. Thats all I have to say.

[Borg1611]

Since there isn't a sticky I guess I'll post here.

My first impression of his clone is that it's decent, but I still feel like it attacks a bit slowly compared to how fast I can attack. Maybe it's just because I'm use to faceroll meme strike speeding through things.

Cloudwalker is neat, but it seems to only break out early when you re-press the ability or left click. It should also break when pressing the melee key. I seem to be able to stealth attack enemies if I cloudwalker behind them and press 2 again and then melee, but it'd be neat if you could just cloud walker behind them and press melee and have it auto break cloudwalker and stealth attack.

I haven't played him long enough to be able to tell if the defy from myself and the clone are separate or if we're adding damage together into one armor pool and both getting the same thing. It seems like it should add them together if it's not. It's kind of a boring ability as it is. Maybe they could add a secondary affect to it like energy restored per enemy killed by defy or something. Maybe if you re-cast during a higher armor value and get a lower value it should just refresh the higher value's duration?

I haven't tested his 4 extensively yet. It seems to have a pretty wide range, but I'm curious how that compares to a high default range melee weapon with a high disposition + range riven + primed range mod. 

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

As I am a console pleb and this is the first I've clicked on does his defy's attack knock down enemies it hits but doesn't kill? Because I think it would be quite nice to give him yet another cc effect. And also is it's damage or range effected by mods? 

Yes, yes and yes.

The knockdown is more of a knockback ragdoll type deal, rather than a blast proc type knockdown.

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Does cloud walker cleanse status or does it just wear off like what happens when you go into operator.

Cleanses.

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Could you clarify the bit about cloud walkers duration a bit more? It sounds like they changed how duration works with it from what you're saying. 

It's no longer an activate cost followed by energy per unit of distance moved. It's now simply an activation cost, but the duration is at base a mere 2 seconds as opposed to the previous 25 seconds.

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Final question. Does his poke vault attack with his 4 knock enemies down? (also do his slams do as well?) because if it can I could see using it purely for ground finisher access on tough enemies. 

They do, however you're only really hitting a single enemy at a time with the pole vault. If you want finishes then Cloudwalker still opens enemies to it.

1 minute ago, Borg1611 said:

I haven't played him long enough to be able to tell if the defy from myself and the clone are separate or if we're adding damage together into one armor pool and both getting the same thing.

Adding.

Edited June 19, 2019 by DeMonkey

[ConsumerJTC]

After using it on a primal umbral build, I can say that his mere presence would melt anyone within the range of 20 meters and he is more than enough durable to last everywhere.

Only problem that I face with the new rework is the extensive FPS 20 drop when using cloudwalker, though its quite a minor issue.

[operational]

Its Wukong, the same wukong, less useful then before. Cmom I think they didnt even try it. Launch Atlas Prime and then skip to Nezha, nobody likes it, nobody plays it.

[8faiNt]

Copying our emotions were cool but how about our twin would help us to open 2 confirmation doors

 everyone would love that.. right?

Edited June 19, 2019 by 8faiNt

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, operational said:

less useful then before

Actually impossible.

1 minute ago, operational said:

Cmom I think they didnt even try it. Launch Atlas Prime and then skip to Nezha, nobody likes it, nobody plays it.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't attempt to derail my feedback with hyperbolic salty whinging, thanks.

[Skurlock]

I'm enjoying wandering around with a melee weapon while the clone pops up like John Wick doing gun kata moves and killing everything within line of sight. Cloud Walker seems like it will be useful once they patch it so it doesn't come to a halt on even the smallest step. Defy doesn't seem to do much really, hopefully with some tweaks and a better build he'll finally be in a good spot. He's definitely more interesting to use now.

[Agayek]

My thoughts:

I really like the rework on the whole.  Newkong is just a lot of fun to play now, with bouncing between cloudwalker and defy then beating *@##$es with a stick roughly the size of Pluto.

That said, it feels a bit buggy and rushed.  For example, Wukong's new Tennogen skin they released a couple weeks ago had a change for his armored skit thing which has apparently gone AWOL with the patch, which is mildly annoying.  More pressing, however, are the bugs with cloudwalker (for example, I tried to do a melee slam out of it, got teleported ~20 meters, hung there for a bit, and then came out of cloud to slam), and the fact that I can't get my Wuclone to use my secondary weapon at all.

On the whole, excellent rework and if they can fix some of the bugs Wukong will likely be one of my straight up favorite frames.

[BlachWolf]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

As I am a console pleb and this is the first I've clicked on does his defy's attack knock down enemies it hits but doesn't kill? Because I think it would be quite nice to give him yet another cc effect. And also is it's damage or range effected by mods? 

Yes it knocks down enemies pretty consistently, if they dont die.

 

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Does cloud walker cleanse status or does it just wear off like what happens when you go into operator.

It cleanses status.

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Could you clarify the bit about cloud walkers duration a bit more? It sounds like they changed how duration works with it from what you're saying. 

You cast cloud walker and then you have a base duration of 2s where you can travel where ever you want really fast while it heals you.

 

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Final question. Does his poke vault attack with his 4 knock enemies down? (also do his slams do as well?) because if it can I could see using it purely for ground finisher access on tough enemies. 

From testing I havent been able to pull it off, but you can already open enemies to finishers with his cloud walker.

[Pixues]

So I did a quick test. The Celestial Twin  looks like it could be fun.

But something that is important to me and many other people is the weapon firing mode that i'm currently using. This is not being transferred to the twin.
The might be the same for Equinox's Duality or specter in general. However this is the first time i'm paying attention to it.

I would love if the Twin copies the firing mode i'm using.

• For snipers:
  • Zoom level is copied.
    • For many sniper this won't matter, unless the Twin is aiming for heads. In this case the zoom level can be balanced with reduced firing rate of the Twin.
    • For the newest sniper: The Komorox this is important as the zoom mode actually changes weapon effect. Fire rate is already incorporated with zoom levels.
• For general weapons with a toggle:
  • Zarr, Tiberon Prime etc. the Twin uses the fire mode I am using during Twin summon.
• For weapons with different firing modes:
  • Euphona Prime etc. this is the most difficult one, the Twin could use the last mode I fired. Or the Twin alternates intelligently. Meaning it doesn't use the alternate fire of the Euphona prime on an enemy that is 50m away. This required boosting the Twin AI so it uses weapons accordingly. (This is probably too much, it should just use last fired mode, lets have the player Intelligence control this one)

 

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Agayek said:

For example, Wukong's new Tennogen skin they released a couple weeks ago had a change for his armored skit thing which has apparently gone AWOL with the patch, which is mildly annoying.

"mildly"

I'm genuinely really triggered as I only bought the skin a couple of hours before this update and spent the rest of the time making myself look badass. I'm now stuck using a skin that, honestly, isn't that great quality wise (I'm hoping that's a bug) whilst waiting for the magical sci-fi bits to return. Game pls.

[Rhyandra]

As we've seen on the Devstream, it was a nice, unique animation that looked really cool.

Now he is using his fat staff for the stomp which is like a.. complete downgrade? What actually happened to it?

[Genitive]

I have very few complaints.

I think that the Wuclone should have better pathing to actually follow the player rather than teleport around all the time. It's kind of redundant for Cloudwalker to teleport the clone to the player if it does it all the time anyway.

Primal Fury suffers from melee 2.5 issues. Weapon swap should be disabled on it (and all exalted weapons for that matter), or at least energy drain should stop when swapping to gun. Because again, why would the ability drain energy when it's inactive? Also, RMB combo (or pressing RMB anywhere during the melee combo) switches back to gun after the combo is done. It is a wider issue, but I didn't like how the clone stopped attacking every time the weapon was swapped for me. It's just not great and pretty annoying.

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, Karu-QW said:

Now he is using his fat staff for the stomp which is like a.. complete downgrade?

No? Only if you don't move and hold RMB down do you do the proper slam combo. By default you do a nice spinning combo that ends in a slam.

5 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Primal Fury suffers from melee 2.5 issues. Weapon swap should be disabled on it (and all exalted weapons for that matter), or at least energy drain should stop when swapping to gun. Because again, why would the ability drain energy when it's inactive? Also, RMB combo (or pressing RMB anywhere during the melee combo) switches back to gun after the combo is done. It is a wider issue, but I didn't like how the clone stopped attacking every time the weapon was swapped for me. It's just not great and pretty annoying.

Agreed. I really dislike just how much my gun becomes forced into my gameplay whilst trying to perform a RMB combo attack, whether it's occasionally pulling it out (and no longer blocking) or accidentally messing with my camera by zooming or whatever, it's not great.

[DeMonkey]

Spoiler

 

Ignore the final few seconds of the video, never learnt to edit, trim or cut videos and I'm half drunk and basically asleep at this point. Just found this quite funny.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

As i was leveling Wukie, rank 2 Defy gave me 8 secs of invulnerabily, at rank 3 it gave me 4 lmfao

( at 200 duration that is )

Edited June 19, 2019 by arm4geddon-117

[Rhyandra]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

No? Only if you don't move and hold RMB down do you do the proper slam combo. By default you do a nice spinning combo that ends in a slam.

Agreed. I really dislike just how much my gun becomes forced into my gameplay whilst trying to perform a RMB combo attack, whether it's occasionally pulling it out (and no longer blocking) or accidentally messing with my camera by zooming or whatever, it's not great.

I made a thread about the celestial stomp animation... Apparently it got merged in here. So again, I was wondering why that animation got changed into something way worse.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Karu-QW

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Karu-QW said:

I made a thread about the celestial stomp animation... Apparently it got merged in here. So again, I was wondering why that animation got changed into something way worse.

Ahhh. It's the animation that was shown in the stream the other day. Guess it comes down to preference, I've always loved the slams.

[EinheriarJudith]

i still look back on all the shade that was thrown at his rework announce reveal, and laugh i knew it was going to be stellar.

neutral on passive even though i hate cheat death gimmicks its part of who wukong is lore wise.

a better duality. though i wish he was more aggressive on melee.

cloud walker is very good now.

defy change i like, only problem is that when something relies on AI to buff you will have issues because AI is terrible. it taunts enemies but it needs to make them also melee faster and unload clips magazines on him defying their predetermined ai programing (see what i did there?).

primal fury is SOOOOOOOOOOO good to use now like seriously nice work DE.

[Donkey_Centaur]

Hoping to compile a little info on our celestial clone. Here's what I have so far:

• +DMG isn't increased by power strength mods.
• Doesn't seem to understand the concept of a gunblade.
• Turns the vectis prime into a machine gun, but doesn't scale all too great without headshots.
• Doesn't use max zoom on snipers, the komorex was a little disappointing.
• No self damage on weapons, had no problem using a beefy zarr.
• Looks a little lost at times if enemies are far away, so you will need to manually target them with your 1.
• Little clumsy with bows, seems to hold the charge for too long and so is very slow to fire.
• Weapon swapping is a little buggy, had to remove my primary in order for it to use my secondary (btw my twin grakatas ripped.)
• Opticor vandal gets a huge thumbs up from me.
• Heals itself with furis augment, but not you.
• DO give it the zakti/cyanex to set you up for condition overload.
• Phenomenal with the castanas/talons.
• Ignores recoil, was great with the pyrana, grakata.
• Didn't seem to use charged shots with the ballistica prime, so little chance of having a ghost army.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Donkey_Centaur

[Birdframe_Prime]

52 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Unless that job is attacking from the cloud, which doesn't actually seem to work 95% of the time.

Noticed that too, it definitely seems a bit janky there. I've managed to get it to work more often while looking down so it performs the slam, and once or twice I've used the stun as it passes through enemies to actually trigger a finisher, which is nice, but that's nowhere near consistent.

53 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

but if you have Primal Fury equipped it's still considered an ability, which means it cannot damage the Nullifier whilst it's bubble is up.

Bugger, I knew it was something like that, I would watch him charge off after a group, but then see him at low health and with a nullifier still alive and think... wait... no, they wouldn't have overlooked something that simple... would they?

Spoiler: they did.

55 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Quite simply I'd like the ability to do more,

Still getting used to my timings and duration on it, but I'm erring on the side of 'agree' with this. Every time I use it, I do wish it could be doing just a little more for me in the situation.

 

That said... most fun update I've had since the Nezha one ^^

[DeMonkey]

11 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That said... most fun update I've had since the Nezha one ^^

Most fun update for me in the past 3 and a half years.