"Everyone can Blink now"

[Steel_Rook]

Looks like they replaced the barrel roll with a blink ability and called it a day, at least from the video. And frankly, I'm fine with it. Kind of wish they'd get rid of Warframe dodge-rolling and replace THAT with a blink, as well. In a game where we can super-jump, wall-climb and glide, a basic human-level slow dodge roll seems out of place, especially since it cancels all other actions and locks you into an animation.

If making Blink inherent is a way to get people to consider other Archwings, then I'm all for it. I still intend to boost rather than blink, because it looks cooler.

 

1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

Amesha is 100% broken, only there is no AW content were you can actually realise that xD

Yup. It's what I used to fight Eidolons before my Inaros became unkillable. The Amesha literally cannot die if you're using it right, and it can ensure nobody else ever dies, either. Mind you, I wouldn't want to lose that ability, but it does make me chuckle whenever people talk about how Itzal is the only Archwing worth using.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 3 heures, Steel_Rook a dit :

Yup. It's what I used to fight Eidolons before my Inaros became unkillable. The Amesha literally cannot die if you're using it right, and it can ensure nobody else ever dies, either. Mind you, I wouldn't want to lose that ability, but it does make me chuckle whenever people talk about how Itzal is the only Archwing worth using.

People look at me funny when i stay in AW in vallis stuff. Most change their minds in a few seconds when they get blasted with a combo of oberon, loki, nova and revenant skills with a generic buff on the sides lol

[Maka.Bones]

This belongs on the "weapons"  thread

 

Also I'm sure they'll add something else to itzal. I doubt it's going to make itzal useless, since it still has many other useful abilities. It just makes other archwings a viable option now

[ZoneDymo]

Everything is getting reworked about Archwing, this thread is premature and therefor rather useless.

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

1 hour ago, ZoneDymo said:

Everything is getting reworked about Archwing, this thread is premature and therefor rather useless.

How is this premature and useless when all I'm doing is asking a question? Maybe thoroughly read it then respond.

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

How is this premature and useless when all I'm doing is asking a question? Maybe thoroughly read it then respond.

Because we don't have the information to be able to answer those questions with. The questions are possibly being asked with assumption/unknown biases, based on what we currently know about archwing. However if archwing is being reworked into something completely different, our questions might not have any relevance. 

I don't think that it's bad to be asking questions though, as it gives DE an idea of what players' thoughts/concerns/likes. 

[ZoneDymo]

2 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Because we don't have the information to be able to answer those questions with. The questions are possibly being asked with assumption/unknown biases, based on what we currently know about archwing. However if archwing is being reworked into something completely different, our questions might not have any relevance. 

I don't think that it's bad to be asking questions though, as it gives DE an idea of what players' thoughts/concerns/likes. 

^that,

Might as well ask "if we are going to get a horse, why do we need K-drive?"
We just dont know anything about it yet, how it works, what the plans are exactly, thats why its premature and thus pointless.

[Maka.Bones]

10 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

We just dont know anything about it yet, how it works, what the plans are exactly, thats why its premature and thus pointless.

I wouldn't say it's pointless to bring up ideas, or questions though. This feedback gives DE a good PoV of what to discuss/explain when they reveal more about it during  a future devsteam. It just depends on the angle of the question, or the type of question. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[ZoneDymo]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

I wouldn't say it's pointless to bring up ideas, or questions though. This feedback gives DE a good PoV of what to discuss/explain when they reveal more about it during  a future devsteam. It just depends on the angle of the question, or the type of question. 

I think its borderline insulting to think DE does not have this in mind when rebalancing all the Archwing stuff but whatever.

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

2 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Because we don't have the information to be able to answer those questions with. The questions are possibly being asked with assumption/unknown biases, based on what we currently know about archwing. However if archwing is being reworked into something completely different, our questions might not have any relevance. 

I don't think that it's bad to be asking questions though, as it gives DE an idea of what players' thoughts/concerns/likes. 

You don't, but DE does. These forums are not to just talk to other players. I wasn't talking to people who are not developers anyway, you guys just chose to respond. My posts are not for players, they are for developers.

Edited July 7, 2019 by (PS4)whoistimjones

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Maybe, buff Itzal's Invisibility ability so that it can be used while moving and attacking? (Loki style)

Then I'd still use it even without the Blink advantage.

[Solarsyphon]

I don't like the "now x isn't special" arguments because they act like the changes doing what they were supposed to is somehow unexpected. In reality less Itzal use is entirely the point but if you are worried  Itzal will likely still be one of the most used arch wings because it's vortex ability sucks up loot faster and it has a faster base move speed.  Itzal will still be the loot gathering meta. I doubt it will be hit too hard but even if no one uses Itzal anymore and all of its use to split up among the other 3 then that will still be more balanced than the current monopoly Itzal currently holds.

[Avienas]

16 hours ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

Itzal is still faster. Base speed on elytron is .9 while itzal is 1.2, the fastest base movement speed of all AWs. Hyperion thrusters further compounds this issue. It may only be seconds shaved off but it's something.

Plus honestly they could just give itzal a upgraded Slingshot blink where by charging it you could do a massive distance jump or maybe have it overdrive the thrusters instead to really jack up the move speed for its 1 ability if they arent simply just making every archwing`s 1 blink. Which might be easier if they just let us double tap the boosters for a blink. If they have to put a cooldown on it to prevent abuse then i hope they make sure it has a sizable distance increase to compensate.

[Avienas]

12 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I don't think Blink is the best ability on Itzal but if they give Amesha Blink I'll prolly never play Itzal again.

Seriously that Archwing is so OP.

Its basically the Sentinel is dead argument now that pets have fetch. Most might start a debate but i only ran carrier prime because it basically gave me no ammo issues plus vaccum. Now its just Smeeta because charm and the presence of fetch.

But lets be honest, archwings could really use some polish up before empyrean, just like how they buffed archgun mods, it would be nice if archwings got a similar treatment to both mods and abilities. Maybe give them more durability on top of smoothing out the archwing controls.

[Xzorn]

10 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Its basically the Sentinel is dead argument now that pets have fetch. Most might start a debate but i only ran carrier prime because it basically gave me no ammo issues plus vaccum. Now its just Smeeta because charm and the presence of fetch.

But lets be honest, archwings could really use some polish up before empyrean, just like how they buffed archgun mods, it would be nice if archwings got a similar treatment to both mods and abilities. Maybe give them more durability on top of smoothing out the archwing controls.

 

Well like I said I don't think Blink was Itzal's best feature anyways. Invis was along with easy loot collection and clumping CC. If you run Energize sets on Itzal like I did then you can sit invis and spam 4 every second while the team just shoots you as you clump frozen enemies together. It's like the old Loki Disarm + Vauban Vortex trick except a single player can do it. Archwing combat just isn't a thing right now so players put all weight on Blink and they should but as a kit for combat it wasn't much.

Carrier is still 91% used for me. Djinn and Wyrm are going up for specific builds but I only use Shmeeta for Kuva. I find companions rather worthless in general. Their AI is dumb and/or suicidal and they don't scale well. If I could simply make my Kavat hold position or not attack and stick me then I might think differently.

[fryh0le]

18 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

If every Archwing can Blink now, why would I use Itzal? It's the best ability on the Itzal. It's 4 dps is nothing to even acknowledge, I don't need to be invisible because I've never been overwhelmed or worried about dying in an Archwing mission and that Absorb is kinda useless since we have vacuum now.

 

As it stands, with this change, I'll be using the Elytron for the only thing that keeps getting nerfed in this game, damage. Obviously my guns are my main damage dealers ( didn't you guys say some time back that you didn't like that weapons eclipse Frame abilities? Seems like a 180 happened since then with all the DPS frame nerfs), but, more damage on top of me shooting never will hurt.

Now that the scout AW's main niche is available to every AW now, I no longer need to use it. Especially if we are getting Module Wings, that makes it even less useful, considering all AW will have blink.

Is there A Itzal rework coming to make me want to use it over other AW's coming or will it sit in the back with the rest of the useless junk that I have? 

KNEE JERK REACTION to a passing comment during a game conference with a sh*t ton of content being dished out.

My take away was that with the additional information that more archwings and different types of archwings are being added -- they will be doing an "archwing rebalance" pass and looking at existing flaws and making adjustmenmts where needed.  The same f*cking thing they did / are doing with Melee.  They pointed out a single obvious area of ontention that needs to be addressed -- nothing more.  But some people seem to have gotten certain clothing twisted in the wrong places at the time the statement was made.

Go ahead -- rage quit -- because the single thing in the game that blows your skirt up is being tweaked.

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

58 minutes ago, fryh0le said:

KNEE JERK REACTION to a passing comment during a game conference with a sh*t ton of content being dished out.

My take away was that with the additional information that more archwings and different types of archwings are being added -- they will be doing an "archwing rebalance" pass and looking at existing flaws and making adjustmenmts where needed.  The same f*cking thing they did / are doing with Melee.  They pointed out a single obvious area of ontention that needs to be addressed -- nothing more.  But some people seem to have gotten certain clothing twisted in the wrong places at the time the statement was made.

Go ahead -- rage quit -- because the single thing in the game that blows your skirt up is being tweaked.

Funny, only people getting emotional here are the people responding to this, like you. Again, I asked a question, nothing more. Just because you got offended by said question doesn't mean it was any more than a question.

And where did I say anything about rage quitting? Lol, seriously, you people need to get off these forums for a while. It's not even being tweaked, it's being shared to other AWs, lol. I'll just start blocking all the emotions fueled responders, not worth my time to keep correcting you people.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

19 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

If every Archwing can Blink now, why would I use Itzal?  

Itzal still has Cosmic Crush and its Cloaking, which are amazing abilities. Sure it's 4 leaves a lot to be desired in terms of damage, but it's not meant to be a nuke. As long as they give Itzal a new 1 (assuming Blink is some sort of maneuver now) and don't change anything else, I'll be very happy. blockquote widget

[Tenno76856]

So they gave all other arch wing ability to blink as well. Will this be as an ability or as an augment though?. 

I like abilities which are unique or like it for each frame i use including archwings. Rework the ability for Itzal or give it something unique to its use (heck i use it cause its faster anyway)......

 

who said there was a archwing rework? (comment about a new one coming if i recall, and the modular archwing business....)

[DeLawrence]

I think that the "All Archwings have blink now" was not only a way to adress the Itzal nerf speculations but also signal a rework of Archwings in general. I don't think giving every Archwing blink is all they had in mind, because that discussion is a few weeks old now and doing something as simple as that would have taken maybe 2 weeks at most. We would have had these changes by now if that were the case.

Edited July 8, 2019 by DeLawrence
Correcting typos

[Teridax68]

If the literal only reason to play Itzal is Blink, then perhaps Itzal needs an update? I'm guessing that making Blink baseline means Itzal will gain access to a new ability, which should hopefully give the Archwing more reasons to be used (and Cosmic Crush is already a pretty useful ability in many mission types).

[Fishyflakes]

Honestly this is all just based on an unreleased prototype build from a demo.

At least wait for the dev archwing workshop to see what they really plan to do.

[LSG501]

I don't mind if they give blink to ALL archwings, as long as they don't go with some convoluted system to trigger it.... there's a perfectly usable free button (5 aka operator key) going free when in archwing.

 

Then they can give itzal another ability to go with the other abilities I use on her on a regular basis.... I don't use itzal just for blink, yes it's the fastest way to traverse the open maps (assuming you have the energy) but it's also the only one with a decent vacuum, the ability to go invisible so missiles ignore us (most of the time) and the little mini fighters are actually pretty handy as cc if nothing else. 

 

I don't use the others because they're actually less useful for my way of playing...

Edited July 8, 2019 by LSG501

[Maka.Bones]

16 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

You don't, but DE does. These forums are not to just talk to other players. I wasn't talking to people who are not developers anyway, you guys just chose to respond. My posts are not for players, they are for developers.

They actually also need player discussion/interaction, as it provides more insight. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2019-07-07 at 9:05 AM, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

If every Archwing can Blink now, why would I use Itzal?

Reading through the thread, I think that nobody has actually got the real issue here.

That, in fact, is the point of this change. For players using Archwings for movement, and only movement, they use the Itzal. For people only using an Archwing for movement, then the Itzal is fine, and those other abilities are completely irrelevant. For somebody using Itzal for the actual abilities in an actual Archwing mission? That's why you would use the Itzal (also, think for a second, if all archwings can Blink, what are they giving the Itzal to compensate?).

The operative point I'm getting at is this:

Now that every Archwing can Blink, you don't have to use the Itzal if you don't want to. You're not compelled to for the high-speed movement, you can just play what you want to play. You can actually use the others and not feel like you're pootling along at a snail's pace in the open landscapes. Take that Elytron, nuke some stuff, take that Amesha, never die. Now you can do that, it's a great move.

For players who want to dodge enemies by being invisible, like a Loki, who want to have a fighter escort (which in most Archwing missions is actually quite positive DPS when enemies get close), who want to gather resources to them faster than the Vacuum can, or when they're in an Asteroid due to clipping, they can do that.

It's now open season on picking your own preference. And that's a good thing.

Personally I'll be using the Amesha, it's going to be fun to be both fast and unkillable ^^