Can something be done about Saryn?

[bibmobello]

1 minute ago, HunterH said:

Dont open them sell them for plat let other people waste time to get endo hahaha if you wana make plat off rivens you need to buy low good rivens and roll them

The only endgame i have is to complete riven quests, if i stop that i can stop to play the game.

[HunterH]

6 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

The only endgame i have is to complete riven quests, if i stop that i can stop to play the game.

MR 24 and you say you dont have things to do ? I have nothing to do lol

https://imge.to/i/woTdW

Edited August 4, 2019 by HunterH

[bibmobello]

4 minutes ago, HunterH said:

MR 24 and you say you dont have things to do ? I have nothing to do lol

https://imge.to/i/woTdW

MR 24 because do you think i have fun to level up crappy weapons when i have the prime or the prisma version? I wanna kill tough enemies, i don't like to farm stuff at all.

Edited August 4, 2019 by bibmobello

[Tenno76856]

Lets nerf all of them.

Im sure others have mentioned this - they do need to balance the game a bit better. Being able to stand and just kill everything is a bit too obvious (pressing a few buttons. And presto is not what i call game play). I had two saryns with me in hydron yesterday. And everything died so fast. It got very annoying to be honest. 

They DO need to change the mechanics of how certain abilities work or at the least make them a bit more challenging to use (or more effort) without an outright nerf... Which many seem to want. In all honesty i want to be able to kill things myself in the game.

Cant imagine saryns is the only one they should revisit.

Needing more interaction..

Edited August 5, 2019 by NigglesAU
Yes

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

56 minutes ago, NigglesAU said:

Lets nerf all of them.

Im sure others have mentioned this - they do need to balance the game a bit better. Being able to stand and just kill everything is a bit too obvious (pressing a few buttons. And presto is not what i call game play). I had two saryns with me in hydron yesterday. And everything died so fast. It got very annoying to be honest. 

 They DO need to change the mechanics of how certain abilities work or at the least make them a bit more challenging to use (or more effort) without an outright nerf... Which many seem to want. In all honesty i want to be able to kill things myself in the game.

Cant imagine saryns is the only one they should revisit.

Needing more interaction..

you risk running into nukers in public, if you want it to be a slog then go the recruiting chat method to make your semi optimal dream team instead of nerfing balanced frames.

[T.Hoagie]

Well, you're a new player so...if you get discouraged by running into higher level players, you could always just leave the mission and find a group who wants to play the way you like.

I am so strongly against nerfing, for one I've put a great deal of time and effort into my OP nuke frames. Ontop of that, when they nerf things they don't balance them, they destroy them. Ember is a perfect example of that, just to get around the absurd energy drain I had to reformat my Ember Prime so she could still use world on fire for a decent length of time. And she is nowhere near as viable as she once was, as many have stated previously all they did was manage to cut down her ability to survive on higher level missions. Which did nothing to address the claim that it was to prevent "nuking lower level missions"

The same thing with Chroma, granted I actually believe them when they say his Vex armor stacked incorrectly. But in fixing that, they reduced his viability quite a lot, which has been mitigated by the Umbral mods but if we didn't have those to make Chroma work more like he used to, who would actually play him?. I only ever see him on Eidolon hunts or when someone is leveling him.

And if you think the new Sayrn is bad, you probably weren't here to see her before her rework. She can nuke now, but before she could easily cover half the map with a single use of her spores. It was quite impressive.

And what in the world happened to Banshee?, her soundquake is ruined as far as I can see.

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

On 2019-08-02 at 8:13 AM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

Saryn takes effort to wipe the map and we don't need any more changes to her. She's perfect.

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

5 hours ago, T.Hoagie said:

And what in the world happened to Banshee?, her soundquake is ruined as far as I can see.

Banshee can stay that way, good riddance.

[Neuerwinter]

Hey guys, remember this?

you can even check the similarity in the excuses to defend that broken thing

[Cubewano]

9 hours ago, bibmobello said:

I Played hundred of survivals with maxed ML27 Saryn... At higher levels melee players will out damage easily every Saryn but in few maps(ESO) designed to maximize her abilities, this because she deal tons of damage but her 4 does't deal so much  damage anymore to wipe out everything. On low level you can't see any difference but against corpus she is not so good for that Equinox is better.

But Saryn is a good melee frame...like her kit facilitates that play super well. And her four is more for the viral strip and to spread her spores, its never been a good direct damage tool for high level content. It sounds like your Saryn pals are just slacking, too caught up on how no effort playing Saryn is most of the time they never move past it, which should speak to her current state all the more. Saryn can clean house for a good healthy while. 

Though all the same, even high level content pending, her trivializing 90% of the game without question is its own sign of problems as noted. And don't say it's a balance necessity for her to be able to do late game stuff, because plenty of frames scale into the late game fantastically (by which i mean the very excessive multi hour endurance stuff) without completely stomping the early and mid game out of existence. There's no threads about Ivara and how she completely trivialized a new players mission and ruined their experience with overwhelming map clear. 

[FaithRose]

*peeks in* Oh gawd this is still going eh? ....Neuerwinter, I hadn't seen that thread O.O;; We'll I hope that Saryn doesn't suffer the same fate. I stand by the fact she is not a broken frame. Perhaps a much easier solution to this issue, other than just crying for a nerf, is to actually have a looking for group system where players can sign up for an open squad and then just ask the pairing system to exclude certain frames. This way folks who don't want to play with Saryn can just exclude parties with them. I certainly don't want to see anymore frames nerfed into death because a select few people don't like them.

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

Saryn takes effort to wipe the map and we don't need any more changes to her. She's perfect.

About as much effort as blinking, sure. No worry though, Pablo even acknowledges how much of a mess she is and he did the latest rework. 

[ErratusEnigma]

Just make the enemies start spawning at level 300 instead of level 1.

Ba-zam.

Now everybody is weak in the onslaught of one-hit kill Kubrows on Earth's first exterminate mission.

[Cubewano]

12 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

*peeks in* Oh gawd this is still going eh? ....Neuerwinter, I hadn't seen that thread O.O;; We'll I hope that Saryn doesn't suffer the same fate. I stand by the fact she is not a broken frame. Perhaps a much easier solution to this issue, other than just crying for a nerf, is to actually have a looking for group system where players can sign up for an open squad and then just ask the pairing system to exclude certain frames. This way folks who don't want to play with Saryn can just exclude parties with them. I certainly don't want to see anymore frames nerfed into death because a select few people don't like them.

If you have to exclude certain tools from matchmaking to make a good experience, that is absolutely a sign of something in disrepair. a frame being so powerful people would want to opt of matching with it just so they can play is not a good thing, not at all, it's definitely not something that should be getting left alone. that said, why do you assume the only alternative is ruin? do you think that of all non-nuke frames? do you think the likes of excal, wisp, wukong, nezha, nidus, nova, inaros, etc, and all dead or ruined frames? they're all less powerful than the stage saryn is at, and if bringing her below that stages make her ruined so would it mean they are. reality is nerfs aren't inherently bad, and they don't just ruin experiences contrary to stigma. as I just learned in a recent conversation in a different topic, the recent wukong rework which many people are loving and pushed wukong out of the least used frames roster was arguably a nerf, and yet the frame came away from it feeling so much better for it, and so much more enjoyable. Similar sort of happened with Excal way back when as well, though it took a few more steps to get through. Nerfs aren't a death sentences, they can open up possibilities, and sometimes being too powerful is worse for the overall experience and nonessential.  

Edited August 5, 2019 by Cubewano

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

Am 2.8.2019 um 17:13 schrieb MrRixter:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

not again...

most mass control frame are already destroyed (like ember) with such threads. saryn is one of the last remaining mass control frame available and she does her job perfekt. you don't want to play with saryn? then don't do it. but stop talking about broken. 

or just have a short thought about how you wanna survive at lvl 100-200 enemies without mass controll frames, which rip of health and armor from enemies to make them killable. 

really, i can't read these threads any more...

[Yamazuki]

Saryn isn't necessary to invalidate a new player. Saryn is just a scapegoat. Any frame with AOE trivializes easy content, and anyone using an AOE weapon or melee weapon with quick movement are going to get most of the kills too. At Sortie level (given op's complaint) anyone can get 1/3+ kill participation even with a Saryn at defense, and any other mission type, blaming Saryn for getting all the kills is just a case of someone being slow, because something like Wukong is better at hogging up all the kills for most non-defense type missions over Saryn. His staff 1 shots everything even at level 150, combined with how quick he moves, it means Saryn gets nothing.

Honestly though, outside of Defense and ESO, I almost never see Saryn anyways.

[FaithRose]

27 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

If you have to exclude certain tools from matchmaking to make a good experience, that is absolutely a sign of something in disrepair. a frame being so powerful people would want to opt of matching with it just so they can play is not a good thing, not at all, it's definitely not something that should be getting left alone. that said, why do you assume the only alternative is ruin? do you think that of all non-nuke frames? do you think the likes of excal, wisp, wukong, nezha, nidus, nova, inaros, etc, and all dead or ruined frames? they're all less powerful than the stage saryn is at, and if bringing her below that stages make her ruined so would it mean they are. reality is nerfs aren't inherently bad, and they don't just ruin experiences contrary to stigma. as I just learned in a recent conversation in a different topic, the recent wukong rework which many people are loving and pushed wukong out of the least used frames roster was arguably a nerf, and yet the frame came away from it feeling so much better for it, and so much more enjoyable. Similar sort of happened with Excal way back when as well, though it took a few more steps to get through. Nerfs aren't a death sentences, they can open up possibilities, and sometimes being too powerful is worse for the overall experience and nonessential.  

I personally don't feel that it is. There are other frames people don't like playing with.....Limbo.....Excalibro......Wukong(yes...wukong).....should they just be reworked and "nerfed" too? And I'm looking toward ruin because that's exactly what happened to Ember. Nerf doesn't exactly mean positive either and on top of it this WAS Saryn's rework. Apparently, she was much more overpowered prior to this change. My point is, changing the frame for the people who actually enjoy it isn't the answer either. As other users int he thread pointed out, each frame has a job....Saryn is power and I still don't follow the "too powerful" part. She is HEAVILY limited against corpus and if you have an energy leech in the room...no energy...no Saryn. I've seen Volt outperform Saryn on many occasions. I've even seen Equinox outperform her. My point is, if the problem is being match with them.....allow for more control over player matches. 

[ErratusEnigma]

2 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

I've seen Volt outperform Saryn on many occasions. I've even seen Equinox outperform her. 

Let's be real, your Trinity with your Opticor Vandal has outperformed many a Saryn in the past.

And your level 14 Frost Spectre outperforms all.

[Cubewano]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

not again...

most mass control frame are already destroyed (like ember) with such threads. saryn is one of the last remaining mass control frame available and she does her job perfekt. you don't want to play with saryn? then don't do it. but stop talking about broken. 

or just have a short thought about how you wanna survive at lvl 100-200 enemies without mass controll frames, which rip of health and armor from enemies to make them killable. 

really, i can't read these threads any more...

Ironically Ember is actually still fine for the aoe clear portion of her design, or as fine as she's ever been there, the aoe clear area isn't as weak as you paint it actually, and now it has scaling. That said, there is no reason for frames of that design to exist, nobody needs to be effortlessly cleaning rooms of enemies in a blink, burning out dozens and dozens of enemy npcs without even necessarily being aware of them, and otherwise just walking through the game while it largely takes care of itself, that's just boring, broken, and meaningless game design, and well sure maybe that's dismissable in a bubble, doesn't work so much in a co-operative online game. Not choosing those options doesn't remove them from the game, doesn't revert their impact to game designs, does not rebalance the game to a period where they don't exist, nor eject them from systems such as recruitment where they may remain an impact. Their reach is more than just their own, and their impact isn't just personal selection. 

and while this level of power isn't remotely necessary to survive at levels 100-200, i feel it more pertinent to ask why you think you have to perform at those levels? they aren't necessary levels to compete in, they aren't a default anywhere, they don't impede the games content or have really any grasp on the way you navigate the game, so why is it important you are able to compete against these arbitrary numbers? what is lost if you can't?

[sleepychewbacca]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

what is lost if you can't?

My ESO farming outside of eidolons for one, and how fast I can clear missions I'd reckon. 

I like Saryn as she is, but then again, I mostly play solo when I use her. Playing with pubs doesn't do much for me, so it's always been about how efficient can I be. 

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Cubewano:

Ironically Ember is actually still fine for the aoe clear portion of her design, or as fine as she's ever been there, the aoe clear area isn't as weak as you paint it actually, and now it has scaling. That said, there is no reason for frames of that design to exist, nobody needs to be effortlessly cleaning rooms of enemies in a blink, burning out dozens and dozens of enemy npcs without even necessarily being aware of them, and otherwise just walking through the game while it largely takes care of itself, that's just boring, broken, and meaningless game design, and well sure maybe that's dismissable in a bubble, doesn't work so much in a co-operative online game. Not choosing those options doesn't remove them from the game, doesn't revert their impact to game designs, does not rebalance the game to a period where they don't exist, nor eject them from systems such as recruitment where they may remain an impact. Their reach is more than just their own, and their impact isn't just personal selection. 

and while this level of power isn't remotely necessary to survive at levels 100-200, i feel it more pertinent to ask why you think you have to perform at those levels? they aren't necessary levels to compete in, they aren't a default anywhere, they don't impede the games content or have really any grasp on the way you navigate the game, so why is it important you are able to compete against these arbitrary numbers? what is lost if you can't?

so, because you don't have to use these lvl for your own, no one should able to play on these lvl? did i get your right?

then why you think you can play these lvl? because some just have fun to play it.

to disable saryn (again! she already had a redesign!) will not make everything better. it will just make her unusable for her players.

 

and ember isn't fine. may she isn't bad in low level, but scaling isnt a good one and also she can't perform what she was able about before the redesign. so no, she isn't fine. its just a frame which is killed by redesign. which is why we don't see much of her on the battlefields

Edited August 5, 2019 by (PS4)NewcastleDisease

[Cubewano]

23 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

I personally don't feel that it is. There are other frames people don't like playing with.....Limbo.....Excalibro......Wukong(yes...wukong).....should they just be reworked and "nerfed" too? 

Don't like playing them or don't like being grouped with? Because those are two very distinct and different conversations. Likewise is why they dislike playing as or with them. Is it purely aesthetic? Are they breaking a form of combat? Are they restricting play? Are they just an uninteresting role? There is nuance to these discussions, and precision. This isn't just some blanket I dislike something and that's all issue, it is a unique crossroad of issues that leads itself to this issue and conclusion. You can have this conversation about other frames if you'd like, or at least we can try, but it needs elaboration behind it if its to be meaningful. 

30 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

And I'm looking toward ruin because that's exactly what happened to Ember. 

And didn't happen to others. Why do you only want to see the failures? (which are likely temporary as is the pattern and only stretched out by issues like these) 

30 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

Nerf doesn't exactly mean positive either and on top of it this WAS Saryn's rework. Apparently, she was much more overpowered prior to this change.

Not accurate, Saryn was actually weaker before her rework, and to this day it's still unclear why she wound up with a buff for her changes given her state, but as it seems even the person re-balancing her was caught off guard by the end result it may have been accidental. He certainly wasn't fond of the outcome, he came back a second time to hot patch some of its more glaring issues from the sudden growth, and he's confident he'll come back again to clean up what he sees as a mess even more so there's that. Either way though, while yes this is the state of Saryn after a rework, she can still be reworked again in the future. As noted in a previous response, Excalibur saw multiple reworks before he became his current best version. A single rework doesn't mean the end of the road, and certainly isn't an argument against future change. 

30 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

My point is, changing the frame for the people who actually enjoy it isn't the answer either. 

That isn't really an option though is it? Frames don't exist in a vacuum, and their designs and powers affect the development of future content, and the balance of that content, they even affect the balance of other frames. Toggling them off as a personal pick doesn't undo those impacts, and doesn't put an end the designs they more or less necessitate by proxy of their existence. 

30 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

As other users int he thread pointed out, each frame has a job....Saryn is power and I still don't follow the "too powerful" part. She is HEAVILY limited against corpus and if you have an energy leech in the room...no energy...no Saryn. I've seen Volt outperform Saryn on many occasions. I've even seen Equinox outperform her. My point is, if the problem is being match with them.....allow for more control over player matches. 

Those are all problem frames to be frank, and you should take note that the only frames you put in comparison to her are other high powered nukes, but that doesn't really make an argument for her. Everything you listed poses the same list of issues, they're all problem children that need addressing, and neither one really safeguards the other. I'm also vaguely curious how you're struggling with the corpus as a Saryn, but that's a tad off point. 

[Cubewano]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

so, because you don't have to use these lvl for your own, no one should able to play on these lvl? did i get your right?

nowhere did i say that. 

38 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

then why you think you can play these lvl? because some just have fun to play it.

i don't think, i know, as per personal experience. why is this specific level range unique to that occasion, or more fun that other level ranges? 

40 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

to disable saryn (again! she already had a redesign!) will not make everything better. it will just make her unusable for her players.

she can have as many redesigns as she needs to get in a good and balanced spot, as is how the pursuit for balance goes. and what makes you think she will be unusable? frames that can do much less than her power wise are still fairly popular, some vastly more than her. do you think a majority of the roster unusable for that matter if you think nerfing saryn would do such to her?

43 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

and ember isn't fine. may she isn't bad in low level, but scaling isnt a good one and also she can't perform what she was able about before the redesign. so no, she isn't fine. its just a frame which is killed by redesign. which is why we don't see much of her on the battlefields

i agree she isn't fine, she scales terribly, and he ult is just a design mess that needs replacing, but for doing what she did in the past she still does that as fine as ever really. what makes you think she can't do what she did in the past? 

[Cubewano]

48 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

My ESO farming outside of eidolons for one, and how fast I can clear missions I'd reckon. 

I like Saryn as she is, but then again, I mostly play solo when I use her. Playing with pubs doesn't do much for me, so it's always been about how efficient can I be. 

With just Saryn changed? There are alternatives that can do just as well as she does for ESO presently so I'm sure you could adapt. If we changed the entire scale of the game in regards to aoe clear? Realistically (and ideally) ESO would be re-balanced to fit those changes so you farm would similarly be fine. The mission clear I can't say much for, but a lot of what frames like Saryn do is excessive and not truly impactful to the core mission for efficiencies sake so that probably wouldn't change all that much? It's just a lot of extra destruction that comes down more on team play than objective play. 

The only real loss I can see the loss in pick up efficiency from less enemy recycling (dying and respawning constantly) but since you play solo a lot I can only assume that's an area of efficiency you don't care for? Other efficiencies I'm not sure would really be impeded all that much? A few seconds more per mission maybe depending on the mission, for a more universally enjoyable game balance and maybe even better enemy/boss design? 

[tzadquiel]

On 2019-08-02 at 5:42 PM, IceColdHawk said:

This is simply not true. And i'm ashamed you come here after going afk and making a tea and then have the balls to complain of not getting any kills when you don't work for it.

I was just recently playing a kuva fortress survival as harrow with only a saryn in my team. After 40 mins she ended up with like 200 kills more than me, which is not surprising considering she's a frame dedicated for DPS. I still did get my fair share of a thousand kills though. As long as you have well modded weapons and are not too lazy about going and shooting stuff, you should never have problems in getting kills. But if it takes you over 10 seconds to kill a single heavy unit then i can see how a Saryn can leave somebody completely dry.

The point in this game is to get stronger and stronger to a point of not having to rely on DPS frames in order to deal DPS. It's up to you if you wanna reach this point or...leave because a damage frame is doing what they're supposed to do.

this. nidus main here. in sorties, regrdless of tier, I can squeeze a solid 27-33% dmg in the squad, with saryns too. saryn's ability kills over time, so you have a window of opportunity if you're fast. 

on a related note, another joke altogether is an mr27 kid who mesa-aimbots in index, crying that I 'steal his kills'.