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MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

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4 hours ago, bibmobello said:

Because outside eso against grineer you will deal 5% damage with him but if you have a proper squad....

Grineer exsist in ESO aswell, and ive used her outside ESO in sorties and such at times, have no issues killing anything with maim.

 

4 hours ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Actually I can casually get to a mmillion plus in some mission types so the hard cap of 100K is a bold lie XD. Their build is probably just so bad they struggle to hit that and they are horribly misinformed. Either way equinox is far more "oppresive" then sayrn in many mission types if you play her properly and even she is considered balanced lore wise and gameplay wise XD

Yea this is what i thought since i knew i wasnt the only one, i guess most people have problems with modding her properly or doesnt bring any weapons that helps boost her damage. Also i do agree she is actually way more opressive than saryn beacuse saryn takes time killing things (belive it or not), spores takes time to build up and if the last enemies with spores die your dmg is litterly gone in a few seconds. Equinox can just press 4, wait a few sec (kill some mobs meanwhile) and then oneshot everything on the map/room with incredible ease. Which is kinda ironic when you think about it, people complain about saryn but nobody mentions equinox (or very few do atleast) and she is so much stronger than saryn+she can heal whole team and cc mobs. 

But overall i think saryn is in a good spot, she performs well enought for normal missions, even tho i rarely see her, and she performs well in ESO. No point nerfing her at this point to be honest. Alllthought i would like to see hydroid, banshee and ember reworked, theyve been sitting on the bench for quite long now.

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On 2019-08-02 at 4:13 PM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

1. If you're a fairly new player you shouldnt be doing sorties, you're just dragging down your team.

2. The reason there was nothing to do, was because you were too underpowered to do anything

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2 hours ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Pssst before screaming about nerfing a frame actually play the frame before hand otherwise it makes you look really petty that someone else has something you don't 

Playing the frame doesn't seem very relevant to the grievance expressed though does it? It's an issue against the experience a player has while in a group with a frame, not directly by playing it, and it's a valid issue to raise. If just being party to a certain class (which the op has experience with quite clearly) is causing a person a negative experience, especially in a highly co-operative non-linear progression game, that is an entirely fair and just issue to point and wish changes for, on the basis of that particular experience. 

Now as someone who does have Saryn (since that seems important to you) I'll let you know I fully agree with the sentiment something is wrong with how Saryn behaves, and that it needs harsh limitations.  I have no problem with a strong frame being strong, but a frame being strong enough it is fully disruptive of an entire groups experience, and otherwise so strong is fully removes an area of play, is something well worth addressing. In the past I thoroughly enjoyed playing Saryn if I'm being perfectly honest, mostly before her rework, and somewhat after, but understand I rarely play her these days just because she feels such a nuisance to group involvement, and furthermore so overwhelming for the entire design of this game that it just makes playing her feel so banal, it's like I'm cheating my way through the game, and while that can be exciting momentarily it grows old ever so fast. She is a broken frame, that trivializes a great deal of things that should be enjoyable, and even the person who reworked her acknowledges frequently that her rework was full of poor choices on his side, Saryn deserves changes, ones that make her not as overwhelming, and not as unpleasant to match with.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Playing the frame doesn't seem very relevant to the grievance expressed though does it? It's an issue against the experience a player has while in a group with a frame, not directly by playing it, and it's a valid issue to raise. If just being party to a certain class (which the op has experience with quite clearly) is causing a person a negative experience, especially in a highly co-operative non-linear progression game, that is an entirely fair and just issue to point and wish changes for, on the basis of that particular experience. 

 Now as someone who does have Saryn (since that seems important to you) I'll let you know I fully agree with the sentiment something is wrong with how Saryn behaves, and that it needs harsh limitations.  I have no problem with a strong frame being strong, but a frame being strong enough it is fully disruptive of an entire groups experience, and otherwise so strong is fully removes an area of play, is something well worth addressing. In the past I thoroughly enjoyed playing Saryn if I'm being perfectly honest, mostly before her rework, and somewhat after, but understand I rarely play her these days just because she feels such a nuisance to group involvement, and furthermore so overwhelming for the entire design of this game that it just makes playing her feel so banal, it's like I'm cheating my way through the game, and while that can be exciting momentarily it grows old ever so fast. She is a broken frame, that trivializes a great deal of things that should be enjoyable, and even the person who reworked her acknowledges frequently that her rework was full of poor choices on his side, Saryn deserves changes, ones that make her not as overwhelming, and not as unpleasant to match with.

She is not broken but till sorties level she nukes entire rooms easily. His 1 and 4 can delete everything on low levels and many players left this game for this reason. Oh and yeah wasting formas and time on frames it's not an excuse to ruin the  (really basic)gameplay of other people. And no the gamplay means you have to defeat enemies and having fun, not wasting time to earn a balloon while other people press just 4 to win...

Edited by bibmobello
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2 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

She is not broken but till sorties level she nukes entire rooms easily. His 1 and 4 can delete everything on low levels and many players left this game for this reason. Oh and yeah wasting formas and time on frames it's not an excuse to ruin the  (really basic)gameplay of other people.

Sounds pretty broken to me. (note she nukes easily well past sortie levels if modded decently)

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Sounds pretty broken to me. (note she nukes easily well past sortie levels if modded decently)

I Played hundred of survivals with maxed ML27 Saryn... At higher levels melee players will out damage easily every Saryn but in few maps(ESO) designed to maximize her abilities, this because she deal tons of damage but her 4 does't deal so much  damage anymore to wipe out everything. On low level you can't see any difference but against corpus she is not so good for that Equinox is better.

Edited by bibmobello

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2 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

At higher levels melee players will out damage easily

Condition Overload makes everything in the game seem weak by comparison, it is a bad point to argue from because it gives off a false perspective on how much of a damage difference there is.

It is like making a graph showing damage output with only 3 points where one is a decent weapon, one is Sayrn and one is Condition Overload Melee, the first two will easily be dwarfed by the absurd size of the third, which makes the prior two look closer than they actually are.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Condition Overload makes everything in the game seem weak by comparison, it is a bad point to argue from because it gives off a false perspective on how much of a damage difference there is.

 It is like making a graph showing damage output with only 3 points where one is a decent weapon, one is Sayrn and one is Condition Overload Melee, the first two will easily be dwarfed by the absurd size of the third, which makes the prior two look closer than they actually are.

But even condition overload is overrated. Only with a status slash weapon and blood rush, when you reach 4X you will wipe out everything with crit on slide attack. At the point  you will really need CO, the enemies will one shot you with 200.000 Ironskin, Making high damage stat on star chart missions and having an efficient weapon for long runs are 2 different things.

Edited by bibmobello

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Just now, bibmobello said:

But even condition overload is overrated. Only with a status slash weapon and blood rush, when you reach 4X you will wipe out everything with crit on slide attack. At the point  you will really need CO the enemies will one shot you with 200.000 Ironskin...

Even so that is on a different scale, comparing damage on the scale you are talking about only serves to downplay and devalue everything below it, 90% of content in this game doesn't even need the sheer amount of damage you are talking about.

Damage as a whole in Warframe has spiraled out of control to the point where low damage and medium damage are now closer than high damage and "blow up a small solar system" damage, meanwhile the difference between medium and high damage keeps getting larger, all the while there are players who can cause hundreds of times more damage in seconds than anything needed in all but a handful of situations.

You can't base everything off of a theoretical ceiling or it just makes the floor and everything in between considered useless by comparison.

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12 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Even so that is on a different scale, comparing damage on the scale you are talking about only serves to downplay and devalue everything below it, 90% of content in this game doesn't even need the sheer amount of damage you are talking about.

Damage as a whole in Warframe has spiraled out of control to the point where low damage and medium damage are now closer than high damage and "blow up a small solar system" damage, meanwhile the difference between medium and high damage keeps getting larger, all the while there are players who can cause hundreds of times more damage in seconds than anything needed in all but a handful of situations.

You can't base everything off of a theoretical ceiling or it just makes the floor and everything in between considered useless by comparison.

OK my fault, if you consider everything under level 100 then Saryn is OP.

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Just now, bibmobello said:

OK my fault, if you consider everything under level 100 then Saryn is OP.

Honestly the problem isn't even Sayrn, it is mostly just how different level 100 or less is to everything past it.

The power scaling in Warframe is so nonlinear for both players and enemies that it starts changing into a completely different game at that point, I could see it being less of a problem if DE could make up their mind where they stand on what levels should be considered a baseline for their design, but currently it is all over the place.

But that's a discussion for a different thread, sorry for taking up your time.

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On 2019-08-02 at 6:13 PM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

Well thats coz you ir new once you do sorties for 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 times and you get 85% of the time anasas sculptures i have so meny anasa sculptures i made a fricking tree in my ship so afther you get to that point you just wana rush the sortie not waste to much time on it and nuke frames ir not a problem you could allways just leave the mission no one said to stay in it

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28 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Honestly the problem isn't even Sayrn, it is mostly just how different level 100 or less is to everything past it.

The power scaling in Warframe is so nonlinear for both players and enemies that it starts changing into a completely different game at that point, I could see it being less of a problem if DE could make up their mind where they stand on what levels should be considered a baseline for their design, but currently it is all over the place.

But that's a discussion for a different thread, sorry for taking up your time.

In fact some developer wrote somewhere the armor and difficulty scaling should have been linear not exponential but they did so..

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16 minutes ago, HunterH said:

Well thats coz you ir new once you do sorties for 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 times and you get 85% of the time anasas sculptures i have so meny anasa sculptures i made a fricking tree in my ship so afther you get to that point you just wana rush the sortie not waste to much time on it and nuke frames ir not a problem you could allways just leave the mission no one said to stay in it

You are lucky, i get every time trash rivens that...

 

 

 

 

 

 

...I will trash.

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1 minute ago, bibmobello said:

You are lucky, i get every time trash rivens that...

 

 

 

 

 

 

...I will trash.

Dont open them sell them for plat let other people waste time to get endo hahaha if you wana make plat off rivens you need to buy low good rivens and roll them

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1 minute ago, HunterH said:

Dont open them sell them for plat let other people waste time to get endo hahaha if you wana make plat off rivens you need to buy low good rivens and roll them

The only endgame i have is to complete riven quests, if i stop that i can stop to play the game.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

The only endgame i have is to complete riven quests, if i stop that i can stop to play the game.

MR 24 and you say you dont have things to do ? I have nothing to do lol

https://imge.to/i/woTdW

Edited by HunterH

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, HunterH said:

MR 24 and you say you dont have things to do ? I have nothing to do lol

https://imge.to/i/woTdW

MR 24 because do you think i have fun to level up crappy weapons when i have the prime or the prisma version? I wanna kill tough enemies, i don't like to farm stuff at all.

Edited by bibmobello
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Posted (edited)

Lets nerf all of them.

Im sure others have mentioned this - they do need to balance the game a bit better. Being able to stand and just kill everything is a bit too obvious (pressing a few buttons. And presto is not what i call game play). I had two saryns with me in hydron yesterday. And everything died so fast. It got very annoying to be honest. 

They DO need to change the mechanics of how certain abilities work or at the least make them a bit more challenging to use (or more effort) without an outright nerf... Which many seem to want. In all honesty i want to be able to kill things myself in the game.

Cant imagine saryns is the only one they should revisit.

Needing more interaction..

Edited by NigglesAU
Yes
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56 minutes ago, NigglesAU said:

Lets nerf all of them.

Im sure others have mentioned this - they do need to balance the game a bit better. Being able to stand and just kill everything is a bit too obvious (pressing a few buttons. And presto is not what i call game play). I had two saryns with me in hydron yesterday. And everything died so fast. It got very annoying to be honest. 

 They DO need to change the mechanics of how certain abilities work or at the least make them a bit more challenging to use (or more effort) without an outright nerf... Which many seem to want. In all honesty i want to be able to kill things myself in the game.

Cant imagine saryns is the only one they should revisit.

Needing more interaction..

you risk running into nukers in public, if you want it to be a slog then go the recruiting chat method to make your semi optimal dream team instead of nerfing balanced frames.

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Well, you're a new player so...if you get discouraged by running into higher level players, you could always just leave the mission and find a group who wants to play the way you like.

I am so strongly against nerfing, for one I've put a great deal of time and effort into my OP nuke frames. Ontop of that, when they nerf things they don't balance them, they destroy them. Ember is a perfect example of that, just to get around the absurd energy drain I had to reformat my Ember Prime so she could still use world on fire for a decent length of time. And she is nowhere near as viable as she once was, as many have stated previously all they did was manage to cut down her ability to survive on higher level missions. Which did nothing to address the claim that it was to prevent "nuking lower level missions"

The same thing with Chroma, granted I actually believe them when they say his Vex armor stacked incorrectly. But in fixing that, they reduced his viability quite a lot, which has been mitigated by the Umbral mods but if we didn't have those to make Chroma work more like he used to, who would actually play him?. I only ever see him on Eidolon hunts or when someone is leveling him.

And if you think the new Sayrn is bad, you probably weren't here to see her before her rework. She can nuke now, but before she could easily cover half the map with a single use of her spores. It was quite impressive.

And what in the world happened to Banshee?, her soundquake is ruined as far as I can see.

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On 2019-08-02 at 8:13 AM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

Saryn takes effort to wipe the map and we don't need any more changes to her. She's perfect.

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5 hours ago, T.Hoagie said:

And what in the world happened to Banshee?, her soundquake is ruined as far as I can see.

Banshee can stay that way, good riddance.

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Hey guys, remember this?

you can even check the similarity in the excuses to defend that broken thing

giphy.gif

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9 hours ago, bibmobello said:

I Played hundred of survivals with maxed ML27 Saryn... At higher levels melee players will out damage easily every Saryn but in few maps(ESO) designed to maximize her abilities, this because she deal tons of damage but her 4 does't deal so much  damage anymore to wipe out everything. On low level you can't see any difference but against corpus she is not so good for that Equinox is better.

But Saryn is a good melee frame...like her kit facilitates that play super well. And her four is more for the viral strip and to spread her spores, its never been a good direct damage tool for high level content. It sounds like your Saryn pals are just slacking, too caught up on how no effort playing Saryn is most of the time they never move past it, which should speak to her current state all the more. Saryn can clean house for a good healthy while. 

Though all the same, even high level content pending, her trivializing 90% of the game without question is its own sign of problems as noted. And don't say it's a balance necessity for her to be able to do late game stuff, because plenty of frames scale into the late game fantastically (by which i mean the very excessive multi hour endurance stuff) without completely stomping the early and mid game out of existence. There's no threads about Ivara and how she completely trivialized a new players mission and ruined their experience with overwhelming map clear. 

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