Dog Days event: how to punish leeches and reward honest players at the same time

[Otakuwolf]

I get it, the event is very grindy and it gets tireing to do the same thing over and over after a while, but just because you may get bored it doesen't mean you should parasite off from other honest players and make it harder for them to play.

And don't tell me "Oh just use the recruitment channel if you want to play with people who care" because first, I shouldn't recruit a team just to play a "normal" mission that shouldn't require precise settings or equipments, and second, the event is very easy to solo as well so there is no excuse to afk on your own if you really don't feel like playing the game.

 

That said, there seems to be a hudge amount of leeches and afk-ers even among content creators, to the point that banning people would do more harm than good, so, here's how I would punish the bad and reward the good:

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Cheater's_Lament

If you don't feel like checking the link: "This hat was awarded on September 2, 2009 to all players who had not used external idling programs, and had played at least once since the introduction of the item drop system"

What I mean with this is, give to the "honest" players a "one time only unique reward". Maybe the Soaktron itself since a lot of people have been asking for it.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Honestly I'm afk'ing now, but solo. Really, if people are going to do it at least do it solo, leaving the players who actually want to have fun play together. It literally takes 0 effort to spawn and go to a safe place, winning with a 0-0 score. 

On the other hand, for those actually playing, it's also not like the leeches contribution is all that important since those who pay will win with a 0-0 or 50-0 score. Not that this justifies the afk behaviour. It's the fun that really matters in this event, thankfully.

Edited August 5, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[Rawbeard]

whooooo caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaares. it is literally not possible to leech in this event, because there is nothing TO leech. the entire team is afk for 5 min? just... why care? whatever, either also go afk, or just play the game and have fun. it's Dog Days. like... just... urgh.

[Lazarow]

I could understand your frustration for an afk player in public squads because that is not okay, while going afk in solo I see no harm in that

[KIREEK]

On 2019-08-05 at 12:19 PM, Rawbeard said:

whooooo caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaares. it is literally not possible to leech in this event, because there is nothing TO leech. the entire team is afk for 5 min? just... why care? whatever, either also go afk, or just play the game and have fun. it's Dog Days. like... just... urgh.

Leeching in a public match isn't allowed and you risk a warn or a ban, please do not recomend players to go afk.

 

EDIT:
Doubt this? Don't believe this? Believe i'm making this up?
Then contact a moderator or support for clarification.

EDIT 2:
For the really stuburn players:

Spoiler

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by KIREEK

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

IDGAF

its a fun event; just have fun

and the only rewards are fun cosmetics; nothing actually necessary, so if you're "grinding" (or complaining about people 'leeching' off your grind)

then you've got the wrong mindset.

Quit looking at how many Pearls you have.

Just go in and play at a casual pace it cause its fun; at the end of the event pick up a complimentary beach ball.

 

 

 

[DeMonkey]

Spoiler

#Humblebrag.

Also, in my opinion, no. Punishment would be arbitrarily pushing people to play a gamemode they don't enjoy over fixing the reasons they don't enjoy it, or encouraging playing it via rewarding you for actually playing it. I haven't even touched the mode yet, so I'm neither a leech nor... anything really, I'm N/A, but I can absolutely see why people will afk in order to get the required amount for what is debatably 'pricey' rewards from a gamemode they don't enjoy.

Fix the reasons people don't want to play it, provide actual incentives for actively taking part in it and then I'm all for punishing people for not doing their part.

As a side note, this is all coming from someone who absolutely abhors leeching and afk players, I'm merely expressing that I'd like DE to actually work on the event first before slapping everyone.

Edited August 5, 2019 by DeMonkey

[Tsukinoki]

37 minutes ago, Otakuwolf said:

What I mean with this is, give to the "honest" players a "one time only unique reward"

Or how about, and this may be a completely crazy thought, make a change to the event first that actually makes killing enemies worth something first to encourage people to play?

Right now you are faced with:
-Run around for 5 minutes killing enemies and avoiding being killed to get 50 pearls
OR
-Sit in a tree, on a buoy, or in a car and watch youtube for 5 minutes to get 50 pearls

That's the problem right there.
There is absolutely zero incentive to actually participate in the gamemode.  There is no reason to actually kill anything since a 0-0 score still rules in favor of the players.  It doesn't matter if you kill 1 enemy or 100 you are still only getting 50 pearls.
Maybe if actually participating, if actually doing something, would get you extra pearls or make the missions go faster then there would be less AFKers.  There will always be some but that would go a long ways to reducing them.

And please note: this is coming from an active player int he event who hates AFKers.  I just see the reason why people AFK and how DE designed this event to just simply not reward playing the mode.

[Rawbeard]

36 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Leeching in a public match isn't allowed and you risk a warn or a ban, please do not recomend players to go afk.

there is no possibility to leech in Dog Days

[Rawbeard]

16 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Right now you are faced with:
-Run around for 5 minutes killing enemies and avoiding being killed to get 50 pearls
OR
-Sit in a tree, on a buoy, or in a car and watch youtube for 5 minutes to get 50 pearls

so what's the problem? people who want A can do that at the same time as people doing B without detriment to either.

[(XBOX)Xebu]

1 minute ago, Rawbeard said:

so what's the problem? people who want A can do that at the same time as people doing B without detriment to either.

Wrong. The very presence of an AFK leech increases the number of bots making it more difficult for everyone else.

While some may actually enjoy the increase in challenge, the level playing field in this mode means everyone can play so it's likely not much fun for new players. I've seen a lot of low MR players, I even participated on my new switch account at MR0, so how good an advert it is for a co-op game when the early experience is people sat in a tree doing nothing to contribute?

If you want to AFK then fine, but at least have the courtesy to do it in a private session.

[Tsukinoki]

5 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

so what's the problem? people who want A can do that at the same time as people doing B without detriment to either.

Honestly?  Not really much of a problem outside of increasing the number of enemies.
I just personally wish there was a way to separate the two players without using recruiting.
I just get annoyed with AFKers and prefer playing with active people.  I don't care at all if you AFK in your own mission by starting the mission and pausing it (which doesn't pause the mission timer).  Do that all you want.  But if you join other peoples missions at least have the courtesy to participate, especially since by being there you are affecting the mission.

And to that end I just wish DE had designed the event so that people participating got something out of it, even if its just that killing enemies reduces the timer a few seconds for each kill.
That way people who really want to AFK still can, and people who want to participate in the game are actually rewarded for it.

 

[DeMonkey]

50 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Or how about, and this may be a completely crazy thought, make a change to the event first that actually makes killing enemies worth something first to encourage people to play?

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

Leeching in a public match isn't allowed and you risk a warn or a ban, please do not recomend players to go afk.

Seriously another bunch of people trying to white knight IGNORANTLY to protect a poorly designed event? Let me list the things again:

• Enemies will not attack you if your on a elevated surface like the trees & in somecases, the large rock pillars.
• Enemies will not try to attack you if you get on certain objects or even crouch in particular containers.
• Enemies will stand still in some cases where your in said situations or will not move if your a certain distance away from them
• No Clear EARLY END trigger for timer is present like regular Rathuum which actually INSPIRED people to actively kill to end early.
• Rewards are fixed to X amount regardless of how many you kill, giving no option two that would give players to incentive to active kill, not even a bonus depending on how many you to kill to get competitive with other players. Which also further give the face-palm to where people rather solo it due to significantly less enemies (3 in solo, where in a group you could be facing up to 9 or more at a time).
• No gear variation at all to allow people to use play styles they are more comfortable with, shifting down from a highly customization-able and arsenal variety based game to bare bones shenanigans is a good way to middle finger the core game itself.
• Extremely high prices which basically dis-credits players to farm multiple floofs, seriously some of these would take 6 matches and others would take 10 just to get a SINGLE one of these beach balls. What if someone wants to get a bunch for thar dojo!? Its somewhat justified by the single items, but 20 rounds just for the captura alone is going to burn out plenty of players.
• You can QUITE LITERALLY just win the match without dying once or killing any, in Rathuum`s normal version, you would normally lose in that regard(or atleast thats how i remember most pve based shooter arenas), least index had a secondary objective to make it so you can`t just yolo your way thru easy credits.
• Timer still ticks down even when you pause in solo mode, despite survival/defense/etc. regular mission types NEVER tick down in solo mode.

Honestly i could repeat all the ways they could of made this game mode alot more fun & engaging but lets say one that would of REALLY got people hyped up and likely never got stated before:

• Have kela de thaym come into the map & be so drugged up from gas she is mostly targeting her executioners and does funky hilarious ways to attack you, like try to throw beachballs at you, instead of actual rollers, that won`t chase you for obvious reasons & maybe even throw in a bonus pearl amount if you took her down. That would of been my HIGH-end demand on what this dog day event should have. Give us bosses that basically are `having fun`.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Avienas

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

1 hour ago, Rawbeard said:

whooooo caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaares. it is literally not possible to leech in this event, because there is nothing TO leech. the entire team is afk for 5 min? just... why care? whatever, either also go afk, or just play the game and have fun. it's Dog Days. like... just... urgh.

 

[Senguash]

2 hours ago, KIREEK said:

Leeching in a public match isn't allowed and you risk a warn or a ban, please do not recomend players to go afk.

This is not true. Thankfully being afk is not actually a banable offense. Would be awful it was, because afking in a mission is in fact often not intentional.

It's also not true that you can get a warning for doing any banable offense, because a warning system doesn't actually exist. You made that up. If you do something banable, the ban will always be enacted without warning.

I completely agree with, "please do not recommend players to go afk [in public games]", but please don't spread misinformation just to scare people into doing what you want.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Senguash

[Nibelhim]

51 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Seriously another bunch of people trying to white knight IGNORANTLY to protect a poorly designed event? Let me list the things again:

• Enemies will not attack you if your on a elevated surface like the trees & in somecases, the large rock pillars.
• Enemies will not try to attack you if you get on certain objects or even crouch in particular containers.
• Enemies will stand still in some cases where your in said situations or will not move if your a certain distance away from them
• No Clear EARLY END trigger for timer is present like regular Rathuum which actually INSPIRED people to actively kill to end early.
• Rewards are fixed to X amount regardless of how many you kill, giving no option two that would give players to incentive to active kill, not even a bonus depending on how many you to kill to get competitive with other players. Which also further give the face-palm to where people rather solo it due to significantly less enemies (3 in solo, where in a group you could be facing up to 9 or more at a time).
• No gear variation at all to allow people to use play styles they are more comfortable with, shifting down from a highly customization-able and arsenal variety based game to bare bones shenanigans is a good way to middle finger the core game itself.
• Extremely high prices which basically dis-credits players to farm multiple floofs, seriously some of these would take 6 matches and others would take 10 just to get a SINGLE one of these beach balls. What if someone wants to get a bunch for thar dojo!? Its somewhat justified by the single items, but 20 rounds just for the captura alone is going to burn out plenty of players.
• You can QUITE LITERALLY just win the match without dying once or killing any, in Rathuum`s normal version, you would normally lose in that regard(or atleast thats how i remember most pve based shooter arenas), least index had a secondary objective to make it so you can`t just yolo your way thru easy credits.
• Timer still ticks down even when you pause in solo mode, despite survival/defense/etc. regular mission types NEVER tick down in solo mode.

Honestly i could repeat all the ways they could of made this game mode alot more fun & engaging but lets say one that would of REALLY got people hyped up and likely never got stated before:

• Have kela de thaym come into the map & be so drugged up from gas she is mostly targeting her executioners and does funky hilarious ways to attack you, like try to throw beachballs at you, instead of actual rollers, that won`t chase you for obvious reasons & maybe even throw in a bonus pearl amount if you took her down. That would of been my HIGH-end demand on what this dog day event should have. Give us bosses that basically are `having fun`.

Like a dog days 5. Vs kela. I love it. Provide 100 and you have to win in 5 mins or lose

[KIREEK]

1 hour ago, Senguash said:

This is not true. Thankfully being afk is not actually a banable offense. Would be awful it was, because afking in a mission is in fact often not intentional.

It's also not true that you can get a warning for doing any banable offense, because a warning system doesn't actually exist. You made that up. If you do something banable, the ban will always be enacted without warning.

I completely agree with, "please do not recommend players to go afk [in public games]", but please don't spread misinformation just to scare people into doing what you want.

You never used support, there is a category for afk and you could report players even without that specific category, what i'm saying is how things work, regardless of what you find offensive or scary, support only warns once, which is why players quit before the gameplay they use brings them the ban (aka a 2nd valid afk report)

There are a few images around if you search, with said message from support team, you hardly hear anything like this on the forums because support only acts on verified afk behavior, a complaint on the forums is essentially self shaming and no one does that. They leave instead.

If you doubt me, ask a moderator or support themselves for clarification, but i assure you entire clans and groups of players already tried to adress my comments as harassment or toxic, reporting the behavior to support and in the end the results were disastrous for the players making false reports, if you are reported of afk, you can't simply go to support and complain that someone warning you ingame was harassment, support is for actual guidelines violations, not pety revenges

I have over 700 tickets and i received my share of complaints or appologies ingame or in the forums after the users received a warn, i'm not saying something i don't know.

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

Seriously another bunch of people trying to white knight IGNORANTLY to protect a poorly designed event? Let me list the things again:

 

All of that sounds great, but support disagrees, i already received a reply regarding my list of reports (yes a list).

If you afk solo, it's fine, but in a squad, other players cannot play for you, the gamemode is also problematric, with more enemies and enemies that are able to take you down if you remain afk, the enemies can easily score, so a report of afk is also a report of the player "acting agaisnt the team" which agravates the issue, not that it matters because after the 1st warn, players often quit warframe, seen this for years now.

Edited August 5, 2019 by KIREEK

[Avienas]

3 hours ago, KIREEK said:

All of that sounds great, but support disagrees, i already received a reply regarding my list of reports (yes a list).

If you afk solo, it's fine, but in a squad, other players cannot play for you, the gamemode is also problematric, with more enemies and enemies that are able to take you down if you remain afk, the enemies can easily score, so a report of afk is also a report of the player "acting agaisnt the team" which agravates the issue, not that it matters because after the 1st warn, players often quit warframe, seen this for years now.

Of course support does not want people to cheese the game. But the point is the fact the major excuse is WHY the cheese exists is the problem, not the fact its possible to cheese. If the event had incentive to actively kill enemies, the cheese would likely of not inflated that much and would of been ignored for the most part if one can get basically 50%~double what the base 50 pearls would give out by default.

But yeah it only takes one major crap-per to ruin a persons interest in a game. Plenty i lost interest due to it just becoming dull, especially after the hype peeled out, but two GOOD examples that helped me stop wanting to play them were Guild war 2 & Wakfu.

• The former being due to multiple times my account got broken into PLUS huge ridiculous end game grind just if one wanted to chase after legendary weapons, in addition to post-game just turning into spamming event nodes as a train to farm mass piles of magic find to multiply the heck out of your drop rate bonus multiplier, it was more of a chain of blehs, but its pretty obvious why that became unfavorable to enjoy.
• In Wakfu`s case, it being a browser based game, i made use of playing 2 accounts at the same time & the sidekick system which was a cash shop goodie that could be traded/sold between players, that you could have fill a player slot, with dual boxing, allowing one to run a max 6 man party of 4 sidekicks and 2 players. The major kicker was having my alt account hacked, everything valuable stripped from it, including cash shop costumes, sidekicks, kamas (ingame currency) and rare gear that took me many months to obtain. Ankama, the company that ran that game`s response? They could not do jack sheet despite me losing cash shop based goods, had spent money on that account and the usual drivel of two factor authentication, the just only recently put in. Basically made me lose the interest and drop that game, DESPITE it being super fun to me due to how kind of unique it was compared to any other PC game i played.

 Maybe those examples are a tad extreme and its just a event so it should not matter too much, but any online game should honestly be mindful on how they release any type of content, since it can easily make people see that as a prime example of what kind of quality they wanna put out in the future, or plan to use as `filler content`. Not expecting them to make something huge like a story quest for these distraction events, but least keep the quality to a very entertaining level, especially when its origin, came out back in Update 18 if i recall? Very least i STILL don`t get why we could of not got that instant win after we get ahead by 10 points in. If people are going to score 40~80 points ahead, they should of honestly made rewards more enticing for players to not get frustrated on spending another 3 minutes in PER MATCH, when they could of likely won regular rathuum 2 to 3 times over in that same period of time.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Avienas

[Scar.brother.help.me]

The best I read in this topic is to make slight changes in event to solve the problem:
1. Let the reward 50 pearls stay as it is.
2a. Each enemy killed gives an additional pearl.

or/and

2b. X enemies kills ends the match.

For now even AFK is damn annoying, I dropped after one ball for 500 pearls, may be I will find patience to farm captura for 1k in a few days, may be, I mean I want it, but this is no fun as it is. (fun was just dog days 1 to 4) 

[Arcira]

This discussion seems to be quite meaningless to me but I didn´t play this event as much maybe I´m missing something. Is there a disadvantage caused by afk player in this mode?

Edited August 6, 2019 by Arcira

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

15 hours ago, KIREEK said:

Leeching in a public match isn't allowed and you risk a warn or a ban, please do not recomend players to go afk.

 

EDIT:
Doubt this? Don't believe this? Believe i'm making this up?
Then contact a moderator or support for clarification.

You get banned for being AFK, but not by quitting mid mission? You know..."host migration".  

That's very good, i wasn't expecting nothing less.

[(XBOX)Gamesbi]

 

 

 

 

 

 

4

18 hours ago, KIREEK said:

Leeching in a public match isn't allowed and you risk a warn or a ban, please do not recomend players to go afk.

 

EDIT:
Doubt this? Don't believe this? Believe i'm making this up?
Then contact a moderator or support for clarification.

Well you're just a liar. I just asked 3 different moderators. 2 said that it is NOT bannable, and the last one said that while it isn't bannable, it isn't a nice thing to do. Explains why I've been playing for 3+ years now and have yet to get banned for AFKing even once. Sure, maybe you can get a warning, but you absolutely cannot get a ban. Stop trying to scare people with false information just because YOU don't want people to "leech" for items we shouldn't have to grind 9+ hours for. Especially when all of those items are mediocre at best, with an extremely high price.

Quote

Then contact a moderator or support for clarification.

Oh, you mean the support that is notorious for being an absolute heap of garbage? That takes WEEKS, or even MONTHS to respond to tickets with copy/paste messages? That has/had members that are known for being toxic such as Lex, Tomasz, and Ramon? That clearly has an collective IQ lower than Steve's shoe size? I can go on and on. I'll admit, support has been useful to me a few times, but just for extremely simple things that a 7 year old could do.

 

EDIT: Also, don't act like I'm a terrible person for "leeching" in this mode. I exclusively play solo for this mode only.

Edited August 6, 2019 by (XB1)Gamesbi

[Elyze]

That's why this game have SOLO option so you can soak as many enemies as you want without being bothered by other players 😄

[KIREEK]

13 hours ago, (XB1)Gamesbi said:

Well you're just a liar. I just asked 3 different moderators. 2 said that it is NOT bannable, and the last one said that while it isn't bannable, it isn't a nice thing to do. Explains why I've been playing for 3+ years now and have yet to get banned for AFKing even once. Sure, maybe you can get a warning, but you absolutely cannot get a ban. Stop trying to scare people with false information just because YOU don't want people to "leech" for items we shouldn't have to grind 9+ hours for. Especially when all of those items are mediocre at best, with an extremely high price.

 

As much as i would like to contact the several hundreds of players reported for afk (which i would need to unignore to do so) to clarify your statement, i will not do that at wall.

Support warns once and then bans, the reason why bans are hardly applied is because players quit after the 1st warn, they don't trust their own gameplay and have the intention to leech and afk more times, the problem is that they know a 2nd report will be far worse than the 1st one. So the the pros and cons of warframe sink in and they ultimately quit the game, better to quit on their own terms than to have support decide for them, for example in the midle of a huge update, event or even causing the current clan to kick you due to the lack of activity.

Repeating offenders will even, at the 1st sign that someone is going to report, they will instantly quit the match, to try and find a squad more inline with what they do.

I could confirm who got banned and who got a warn, but i am not unignoring players 1 by 1 to try and find a banned one, forget that, i can confirm that in certain cases, repeated offenders were removed from the game, i simply do not remmeber the username, but it did happen as some players didn't care for the 1st warn and that lead exactly where i'm saying, a ban.

The moderators are correct, on a 1st offense it's not banable, it's the 2nd one.

I have many years "roasting chickens".

Edited August 6, 2019 by KIREEK