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Somi_xD

Syndicate Daily Cap needs to go.

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Posted (edited)

Hey People,

here a small suggestion, which would make the game not such a pain in the butt for many players

Turning ALL Synidicate Caps from Daily to Weekly.

So we are not forced to get daily into the game to get those points.
We would be able to arrange it better over a Week or get it all in one day.

This would ease up much for many players, since most players are more casual playing - we have a real live, we also got other things to do.

Edited by Somi_xD
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To asnwer your thread name:

- No. no it doesn't.

This is the reason why it is still ingame:

1 минуту назад, Somi_xD сказал:

So we are not forced to get daily into the game to get those points.

Last word: "Burnout"

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9 minutes ago, Somi_xD said:

So we are not forced to get daily into the game to get those points.

Ok. So, basically, you are capable of understanding the reason why DE wants it in the game.

Can you now provide the argument for DE to take it out? Trying to convince someone by telling them why a thing is good for them is... a... not very good strategy. It's kind of counterproductive.

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Posted (edited)

If they remove all caps than forum will be filled with topics about "there is nothing to do anymore, because we try hard/no life style maxed everything in 2 days"

Edited by Myscho
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11 minutes ago, Somi_xD said:

Hey People,

here a small suggestion, which would make the game not such a pain in the butt for many players

Turning ALL Synidicate Caps from Daily to Weekly.

So we are not forced to get daily into the game to get those points.
We would be able to arrange it better over a Week or get it all in one day.

This would ease up much for many players, since most players are more casual playing - we have a real live, we also got other things to do.

Addressing it to people instead of DE doesn't help, or neither way...

And how in the world do you know its "such a pain in the butt for many players"?

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Its a free to play game, there's gonna be caps on things. This is one of those things.

A counterpoint to your suggestion: increase your MR. Boom, more standing per day.

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Posted (edited)
vor 49 Minuten schrieb Dhrekr:

Ok. So, basically, you are capable of understanding the reason why DE wants it in the game.

Can you now provide the argument for DE to take it out? Trying to convince someone by telling them why a thing is good for them is... a... not very good strategy. It's kind of counterproductive.

I do understand why such a thing is in a game, to chain players to the game.
1. Those who want and can play daily will play daily they never needed a daily cap for it.
2. FOMO is strategy that works like intended, but you can also see what kind of negative impact it has on many players.
We see it in Warframe and in other games as well.
Nightwave Season one was pretty much following the FOMO because it was a simple copy from Battlepass from other games.
What happened? People complained and those where not just a few.

You see - in the world the majority of players are more casual, they don't have much time to play, FOMO hits them the most, they become frustrated they stop playing.
They can still use those tactics but giving the people some room to breath isn't a bad thing at all.

People who wanna play Warframe will play Warframe, if it not happens daily it isn't a loss for DE - maybe for statistics in daily player count, but those people will come into the game and go blindly for some missions with much EXP and will not enjoy it.

So can you provide arguments AGAINST a Weekly Cap?

vor 47 Minuten schrieb Myscho:

If they remove all caps than forum will be filled with topics about "there is nothing to do anymore, because we try hard/no life style maxed everything in 2 days"

vor 36 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Skippy575:

Its a free to play game, there's gonna be caps on things. This is one of those things.

A counterpoint to your suggestion: increase your MR. Boom, more standing per day.

Learn to read more than just the titel 😉
I guess i spare a sarcastic comment on the MR counterpoint.

vor 44 Minuten schrieb FerockQuartz:

Addressing it to people instead of DE doesn't help, or neither way...

And how in the world do you know its "such a pain in the butt for many players"?

This is a Feedback Forum, here i Post feedback on the game.
Moderators see it, Devs see it.
Devs can also see what other Player think about this feedback = if it is liked or disliked by the community.

Casuals >>> Coregamer
Except you have a dead game which is only played by its core fan base.
Casuals in general don't have that much time or don't want to invest that much time.
That's why there are those predatory ways to milk money out of casuals, by limiting things in the game.
It is proven, that's why it work.
 

Edited by Somi_xD
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vor einer Stunde schrieb PurrrningBoop:

Last word: "Burnout"

That is your personal responsibility. 

Those players with job and familiy that I play with will mostly be playing on weekends. A form of weekly caps would be highly appreciated. 

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Posted (edited)
10 минут назад, k05h сказал:

That is your personal responsibility. 

Correct, yet many struggle with moderation.

10 минут назад, k05h сказал:

Those players with job and familiy that I play with will mostly be playing on weekends.

I'm a part of the said group of people.

Edited by PurrrningBoop
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3 hours ago, k05h said:

A form of weekly caps would be highly appreciated. 

The caps would be lower, then, because they would no longer be rewarding the preferred behavior - playing daily. It really is not DE's problem that you want to play their free game on your schedule.

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9 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The caps would be lower, then, because they would no longer be rewarding the preferred behavior - playing daily. It really is not DE's problem that you want to play their free game on your schedule.

Well to be fair, that’s DE’s fault for having not enough sustainable content, not ours. 🤷‍♂️

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

they don't have much time to play, FOMO hits them the most, they become frustrated they stop playing

I'm sorry, but while you might be correct in many cases, the daily caps in Syndicates were introduced ages ago and the game has substantially grown ever since.

Whatever the effect, this fabled Syndicate-based FOMO hasn't stopped Warframe from becoming a much larger success than it was back then.

So, you still have shown that you understand why the daily cap is there, and the only downside you have cited is clearly not a concern for DE. So, strategically, you're still arguing for the removal of something mentioning lots of upsides and no practical downside.

It's still a counterproductive strategy.

 

20 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

So can you provide arguments AGAINST a Weekly Cap?

That is a cute question but I shan't be baited into it.

I could just ape you and say that "well, there's a weekly cap, there's FOMO, people are going to be frustrated and leave", but that would be cheap because it's an argment I have already mocked.

The answer is: this thread is not to provide arguments against a weekly cap. You have to convince DE that daily caps are bad. Arguing against Weekly Caps is a red herring, nothing more.

Edited by Dhrekr
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Il y a 19 heures, Somi_xD a dit :

I do understand why such a thing is in a game, to chain players to the game.
1. Those who want and can play daily will play daily they never needed a daily cap for it.
2. FOMO is strategy that works like intended, but you can also see what kind of negative impact it has on many players.
3. We see it in Warframe and in other games as well.
4. Nightwave Season one was pretty much following the FOMO because it was a simple copy from Battlepass from other games.
What happened? People complained and those where not just a few.

5.  You see - in the world the majority of players are more casual, they don't have much time to play, FOMO hits them the most, they become frustrated they stop playing.
They can still use those tactics but giving the people some room to breath isn't a bad thing at all.

6. People who wanna play Warframe will play Warframe, if it not happens daily it isn't a loss for DE - maybe for statistics in daily player count, but those people will come into the game and go blindly for some missions with much EXP and will not enjoy it.

7. So can you provide arguments AGAINST a Weekly Cap?

8. Learn to read more than just the titel 😉
9. I guess i spare a sarcastic comment on the MR counterpoint.

10. This is a Feedback Forum, here i Post feedback on the game.
Moderators see it, Devs see it.
Devs can also see what other Player think about this feedback = if it is liked or disliked by the community.

11. Casuals >>> Coregamer
12. Except you have a dead game which is only played by its core fan base.
13. Casuals in general don't have that much time or don't want to invest that much time.
14. That's why there are those predatory ways to milk money out of casuals, by limiting things in the game.
It is proven, that's why it work.
 

I took the liberty to add some numbers to make my answer as clear as possible.

1. Here's your first mistake, it's not designed about players who play everyday needs.

2. Do you have any real ideas what FOMO is ? it's about missing something that will disappear from the game ! Syndicates don't disappear, there's no FOMO here at all, that's a bad argument.

3. Can't really argue with that, lootboxes and limited events are based on this amazing thing however DE at least do not use lootboxes, is straightforward with their prices. And as said before anyway FOMO as nothing to do with syndicates.

4.If there's one common thing in the world it's this, whenever you add something people will complain about it... Was it optimal, no it wasn't, we got improvement for season 2 and this one is completely ok and i would mention that battlepass are paid in other games ?

5.I Don't care what's your opinion about players distribution, It's not an argument and there's NO FOMO for syndicates ! you can grind it at your own pace, you'll never miss a thing !

6. See, generalisation is terrible, I enjoy going in ESO and Hydron, it's where i can destroy stuff without thinking much about it. (and i'm not trying to generalize to make myself more important somehow)

7. This won't work with me, you want to prove weekly caps is a thing more useful, you make a claim it's up to you to bring the arguments for it.

8. i Did it.

9. Because a good argument against your point has no value right? Only sarcasm can get you out of your failure in this post.

10. It might surprise you, the likes are for your opponents ;)

11. You're very entitled ain't you?

12. Last time i checked, dead games don't work on updates, you're not the first nor the last to pretend this to validate your argument, funny part, you fail to realize there's no point in doing the change you're asking for a "dead game"!

13. People can do whatever they want, and there's no FOMO or obligations to be there everyday for syndicates... Somehow that's your core argument and it's invalid!

14. Predatory? You're not even making any sense, there's nothing predatory HERE, if you want predatory stuff go to any AAA fee-to-pay games out there, you'll figure out by yourself warframe is a correct game in this point! 

So you've no arguments and you want things to change, good for you, won't happen though!

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20 hours ago, Myscho said:

If they remove all caps than forum will be filled with topics about "there is nothing to do anymore, because we try hard/no life style maxed everything in 2 days"

Wait, but it already is.

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As long as they multiplied the daily cap by 7 or more in making it weekly, I'd be all for it. 😛

Trouble is, I can't think of any great reason DE would want to do such a thing.  Although IIRC the original nightwave daily challenges were actually 24 hours and they loosened those up a lot.  So maybe pure customer satisfaction or well-being is the angle.

Perhaps syndicate standing isn't that much of a draw anyway and there are enough other things to keep enough people engaged with the game on daily basis without the daily cap?   (Maybe if sorties got a reward refresh, and the daily mission bonus was a somewhat bigger deal?)

Maybe we could have a hybrid system, where we got, say, 65% of the cap (x7) weekly, and the remaining 35% was divided into dailies.

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16 hours ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Well to be fair, that’s DE’s fault for having not enough sustainable content, not ours. 🤷‍♂️

To be fair there will never be enough "sustainable content" (however you define it) with how quickly players go through content.  And its not just warframe that has this "problem"

Just now, Tiltskillet said:

Although IIRC the original nightwave daily challenges were actually 24 hours and they loosened those up a lot.

Nope, the "daily" challenges in nightwave were always on a 3 day rotation, even during season one.

19 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

You see - in the world the majority of players are more casual, they don't have much time to play, FOMO hits them the most, they become frustrated they stop playing.
They can still use those tactics but giving the people some room to breath isn't a bad thing at all.

People who wanna play Warframe will play Warframe, if it not happens daily it isn't a loss for DE - maybe for statistics in daily player count, but those people will come into the game and go blindly for some missions with much EXP and will not enjoy it.

Except that syndicates have absolutely zero FOMO....I mean nothing has really changed in the syndicates since they first launched and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
So what is there in the syndicates to miss out on?  What needs to be now that you wont' be able to get later?  Oh yeah...nothing...

Maybe you shouldn't misuse terms like that and base the core of your argument around it.

Further: Daily players numbers are much more important to a game like this than weekly/monthly.  A game like this lives and dies based purely on daily players that return day after day after day.  It doesn't matter if you're game is played by a lot of players one or two days a week and is utterly dead the rest of it...in order to thrive a game needs consistent player numbers.
Maybe you should do some research into various metrics for games....

19 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

Casuals >>> Coregamer
Except you have a dead game which is only played by its core fan base.
Casuals in general don't have that much time or don't want to invest that much time.
That's why there are those predatory ways to milk money out of casuals, by limiting things in the game.
It is proven, that's why it work.

Oh yes, another argument that immediately goes to "BUT WARFRAME IS A DIEING GAME!!!!!!!!!" with absolutely nothing to back that up on, and plenty of data that points to quite the opposite.

And sure casuals don't have much time to play teh game...but most casuals can play the game daily, or nearly daily.  Its a minority that don't/can't spend time every day playing something that they enjoy.

And how is it predatory?  Especially since most of what you can get out of syndicates can't be bought?  Also there isn't a way to increase caps or bypass them by paying money....hardly seems predatory to me.

19 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

So can you provide arguments AGAINST a Weekly Cap?

So since you can't articulate a solid argument of why Daily caps are bad you default to demanding that we argue that weekly caps are bad.
How about this:
-It wouldn't really change anything.  If the standing caps are the same then the time spent getting them would be the same...so what would a "casual" person get out of it?
-It would stand a chance of hurting player retention, which is vitally important for a game like this.

How about you actually provide a solid argument of what is so bad against daily caps?  And please don't go "But FOMO..." because that's just an utter misuse of the term as you aren't really missing out on anything as you can do syndicates at literally any time at your own pace and won't miss out on anything if you don't max your syndicates right now compared to 3 weeks down the line.

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Just now, Tsukinoki said:

Nope, the "daily" challenges in nightwave were always on a 3 day rotation, even during season one.

Whoops, thanks for the correction.

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"FOMO" appears to have replaced "gated" as the word to use to describe things you don't like.

Sorry, DE doesn't want us speedrunning syndicate standing, and they want it to be helpful to their f2p model.  Personally, I agree with them.

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4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

So since you can't articulate a solid argument of why Daily caps are bad you default to demanding that we argue that weekly caps are bad.
How about this:
-It wouldn't really change anything.  If the standing caps are the same then the time spent getting them would be the same...so what would a "casual" person get out of it?
-It would stand a chance of hurting player retention, which is vitally important for a game like this.

Don't even need to give him that.  He wants the system changed, the onus is on him to supply the argument.  And you're right, "muh fomo tho" isn't a valid one.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb (PS4)BenHeisennberg:

"FOMO" appears to have replaced "gated" as the word to use to describe things you don't like.

Sorry, DE doesn't want us speedrunning syndicate standing, and they want it to be helpful to their f2p model.  Personally, I agree with them.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (PS4)BenHeisennberg:

Don't even need to give him that.  He wants the system changed, the onus is on him to supply the argument.  And you're right, "muh fomo tho" isn't a valid one.

Yeah - the toxic leaning site of the Warframe commutiny ^^
Thanks, for this "great answer" by insinuating that i do it only out of egoism, laziness, and that i am a whiny noob.

It is a form of FOMO but it isn't that dramatic like a rare short Event etc.  - i also could go around the term "FOMO" but looks like it does its job by pointing out the main issue with it in a Way people can assosiate fast.

What would you say else about daily synidcate caps?
That's the main argument here - even if it isn't a strong one.
Your and the others "counterpoints" are not better.
It's a suggestions towards DE if they do it or not is their decision, those comments from the Community are just a side effect.
If they actually change it - it's fine, but if DE doesn't want to change this it is fine as well.

It's not about speedrunning the syndicate - i don't need it i have most of my syndicates - (i only need those stupid rare chroma prime parts to max out my 3. and 4. Synd - but i also wanna build Chroma Prime and replace the Normal one xD)
It would ease up some frustration for a good chunk of players.

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vor 15 Stunden schrieb Dhrekr:

the daily caps in Syndicates were introduced ages ago and the game has substantially grown ever since.

I don't put up the daily caps in Syndicates as a major flaw in the game.
Also there are so many games out their, way more aggressive in this regard and many of them are growing like crazy as well.

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Dhrekr:

lots of upsides and no practical downside.

It don't have many upsides and most of the upsides are downside at the same time.

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Dhrekr:

That is a cute question but I shan't be baited into it.

You have to convince DE that daily caps are bad. Arguing against Weekly Caps is a red herring, nothing more.

Same here - i don't need to argue with you guys and lay down points where no more points can be laid down.There isn't much to say against daily caps.
The negatives on it are that it is "daily" and those "cap" your progress.

And my point is, that since the game did grow so much, and we also get more casual players (and definetly there are more casuals or lets call them "weekend-player"), it would be a nice step towards those players in the community.

I don't ask for a game changer ^^ just for some room to breath abit more.
I just throw some of my thoughts in here.

DE will see it in a way, and they will do their thing.

I appreciat your comments - have a nice day or night.

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6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

To be fair there will never be enough "sustainable content" (however you define it) with how quickly players go through content.  And its not just warframe that has this "problem"

Oh for sure, that’s a given players would rush through the content if there was no caps in the game. A way I think for sustainable content to work there would need to be content that can not only be be replayable, but also with good enough rewards to go with it. Yes, it would more than likely become repetitious at a certain point, but the replay value would have to be unique enough and also fresh for the player base to thoroughly enjoy so they don’t become burnt out on it as fast as other content.

However, I know that’s easier to be said than done, I definitely get that. I’m not a gamedev by any means, and I don’t have any suggestions of what that would actually look like, but I do think replayable content that would be fresh and unique with good rewards would be a good start.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-08-13 at 3:38 PM, Dhrekr said:

Ok. So, basically, you are capable of understanding the reason why DE wants it in the game.

Can you now provide the argument for DE to take it out? Trying to convince someone by telling them why a thing is good for them is... a... not very good strategy. It's kind of counterproductive.

Honestly daily grinds are what usually are the original form of burnout, Atleast with REGULAR syndicates its not an issue since you can build it up rather naturally thru just doing stuff, with much more of a gain going on when you do higher level things...

It just becomes an issue on those WITHOUT those easier to gain rates, open world syndicates kind of have it by turning in resources but definitely becomes an iffy, when it comes to simaris or ventkid standing where they can be throttled in rather annoying ways. With the latter being due to a literal cap on your total score for a trick chain, Just let us do the Tony hawk long point chain to strut our stuff and just get the whole vent kid standing in one single, ridiculously long, trick chain to show how good we can be at the thing.

With it being a WEEKLY format, its easier to space it out to maybe grind 3 days a week, usually with high % gain rates to basically able to get it 3 to 5 times over the `daily cap` in just one sitting of say...Adaro stealth focus farming. Which requires quite a bit of setup then just kill everything brainlessly like hydron, sure there is ESO, but you still need a setup to actually go far in that. Which especially helps if we do not feel like playing a game every day, which might get throttled by the idea if we tend to use syndicates to make some plat by selling extremely under priced mods/weapons because no one respects how long it takes just to get 125k standing points for a syndicate weapon, where they beg them for 20~25 platinum when anyone would buy it instantly at 40~60 plat, last year or so.

Granted i would not say to gut the cap altogether, but a weekly format would certainly be less of a hassle, would be more manage able for those who cannot play alot each day plus let some people wrap it up early so they can concentrate on other things instead of having to do a bunch of small things every day and likely get bored outta thar head by losing any fresh-ness they got from a good night`s rest or so.

Edited by Avienas
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