Veterans misunderstand why they don't enjoy playing the game anymore

[DrakeRemorea]

18 hours ago, (PS4)InkCN said:

It's perfectly normal to lose interest in something you liked, but don't blame the game for it (or yourself for that matter). No one is in the wrong here.

When I get bored playing I trade, buy and sell. Make platinum without doing much but buying low selling high. When I run low on luck there, I go back to playing the game.

[RunsWithChainsaws]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Drake_Remorea said:

When I get bored playing I trade, buy and sell. Make platinum without doing much but buying low selling high. When I run low on luck there, I go back to playing the game.

Sounds like a plan.

[-Shavo-]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb (PS4)InkCN:

Phase 5: The solution

STOP !! Stop playing Warframe (at least for some amount of time). Playing a game countless of hours every day isn't sustainable unless unlimited amount of content (spoiler: it's impossible). And by how DE are extremely ambitious, you can only expect the updates to be bigger and bigger but also more and more scarce in time. Updates will never be more than a temporary bandage to your problem.

Thats no solution.

I play this game for 6 years. This game evolved in this years and at a certain point it lost the veterans.

Most veterans loved the grind aspect of the game:

- regular (grind)events with leaderboards that motivated clans and players to farm and compete for the top 100. These events often had a bit of lore in them.

- the main focus was to play endurance runs. Stay as long as you can to get as many you can (for one voidkey). 

- regular small quests (sometimes greater quests)

 

Now the game goes a new direction wirh cetus, fortuna and possibly with Railjack.

It is a casual rpg direction.

But this doesn't motivate the veterans. For me Cetus and Fortuna are extremly boring. I am forced to farm standing with (unchallenging) bounties, have to mine and fish and barely see any enemy.

In the same time I miss lots many ressources, exp and mods (=endo) which I would earn in the same time in a challenging endurance run.

Cetus, Fortuna, Railjack and the great (and good) cinematic quests binding tons of ressources. This leads to long periods without content.

Due to this the community changes to a casual, periodic playing community. The first symptom for this is Nightwave which is not more than a battlepass which trys to bind the players and force them to continousily play otherwise they have no chance for the content. 
This is not motivating or challenging.

This is just my opinion as a Veteran who don‘t understand why he don‘t enjoy the game anymore 😉

I definetly see your point and if the new direction of Warframe motivates you it is good. But thats not what I loved about this game.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Doc.Pyro
Improved formatting

[Ephemiel]

It's almost painful to see that people are agreeing with someone whose's points boil down to "you're just hating on the game, you don't know why you don't enjoy it".

[FlyingDice]

The real problem is that too many "vets" who joined in the middle years of the game, ~'15-'17, treated it like WoW and cheesed their way to cap out everything ASAP.

If you don't like the core gameplay loop -- not the grinding, the actual movement and shooting mechanical cycle -- you're going to get bored of the game, and all the faster if you don't take it easy on the powerfarming.

 

You're absolutely right about taking breaks, though. I've been playing WF for about six and a half years now, but I've only been actively (as in logging more than an hour or two per week) playing for maybe a tenth of that timeframe. The same applies to literally any game: you will eventually burn out and get bored. That's natural. Stop playing for four, five, six months and then come back.

[Midas]

Gotta say the solution would be endgame content like any other mmo. Warframe was the perfect example of Third-Person shooter and an mmo cross at one point. We were all excited for it.

The problem is too many people do not want to coordinate and want to be able to solo everything in a multiplayer game. It simply does not work.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Midas

[Fire2box]

I don't get the whole "Take a break" when said break is implied to be months or longer. 

Tell me, do you people do that with anything else in your life? Would you tell DE Steve to take a break from developing warframe if he's burnt out on it and the community in fighting with itself? 

If it's not acceptable for your own life, dear god why is it for video games? If it's because "video games aren't important" then why do you care so deeply when someone criticizes the game you like to the point of you saying " No your wrong, go play something else."?  

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Fire2box

[BETAOPTICS]

Stop playing a game as a solution to a problem is a terrible suggestion and lets face it, a non-solution. It is lazy reasoning and does nothing to address the reasons players make the criticisms they make. It fixes the problem the same way a solution to a malfunctioning car is to not having a functional car at all.

But regardless of that having read your post I do not necessarily even think your analysis is on point. You could say it is Veteran entitlement, but the reason why there has been criticism towards concepts of content drought is because if you go back many years ago 2015, the reason why these kinds of criticisms did not exist back then was because there wasn't such a thing as content drought. Even Rebecca has mentioned that back then regular content drops were common, they were not major or weren't necessarily the kind of higher quality as modern content is, but there were regular content drops. Be it they were a weapon every so often, a skin, or what have you. There was a reason for any player to drop by and pursue goals, even Veterans, because there always was content that was new and gave new experiences.

While DE's ambitions and increased quality is welcome on the surface and there isn't anything necessarily wrong with that. However what it does mean is that those who have played the game to a point where there is nothing to pursue will have no reason to drop by and play the game again without new content. Quality, that concept as valuable as it is, can not compete with the amount of time it takes to create it at this current time. I am certainly not suggesting ditching quality, but I am saying DE should pay more attention to the balance. The problem with high fidelity concentrations of content and content drought is that content drought creates disengagement and it is human nature to become gradually less invested and involved the more times they experience that other venues offer experience where drought content at that time does not.

Back then once upon time quantity was more common, now it is the opposite, but neither extreme of the digital variant serves the games long term health and interests well in my opinion. Maybe it is true, regardless of the authors non-solution, that it does in fact spell out that it is time to move on to different venues. But it is not in the interest of Warframe to be this way and I do believe that the current format isn't exactly sustainable either for better or worse.

Edited August 23, 2019 by BETAOPTICS

[BETAOPTICS]

22 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

You literally just proved Op's point! Every point you responded to is not a new player's experience, only the vet. Of course you NOW KNOW how to level fast, kill quickly, breeze through and not die. New players die constantly. They don't have enough restores yet so, yes, they see use in ammo drums. Higher leveled enemies are an issue because they don't have your mods and arsenal. Can you imagine them playing WITHOUT content creators holding their hands and showing them Hydron? 

To you, it's "been there done that". To new player's, it's exactly what you felt when you fell in love with the game. That's what OP is simply saying. Nothing wrong with that.

But the topic isn't about new players experience.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

23 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

There are tons of mods being completely useless either due to outdated mechanics, too low stats or just general bad effects.

But that isn't a solution. When we're discussing on why updates are half-baked or what kinda (endgame?) content we're missing or just how the game can be improved, stopping to play the game is NO solution. Evasion is the proper word.

1) except even the duplicate trash mods can be turned into endo and even if you have every mod in the game at max rank you can sell primed mods maxed for plat so they arent "useless"...

 

2) it is not reasonable for people to expect to be able to play this game 24/7/365 for several years and not ever feel bored or run out of things to do.

 

That's like going to a Chinese buffet and eating 10 pounds of food and then complaining that you dont want any more food "because it sucks".

[RunsWithChainsaws]

Strange...Why do people want this to be multiplayer as in you need groups to do the content?  I left a game like that for just that reason.  I'm lucky to even be able to play with another person in this game given I disconnect if I don't host and my machine is a potato.

[Ephemiel]

3 hours ago, FlyingDice said:

The real problem is that too many "vets" who joined in the middle years of the game, ~'15-'17, treated it like WoW and cheesed their way to cap out everything ASAP.

Would love to know exactly how and why do you think this.

[RunsWithChainsaws]

From what I've seen, people rush through new content as fast as they can and then complain about being bored.  Then that puts developers on this forever treadmill trying to cater to those same never-satisfied people even though those people are likely not the people spending money on the game.  I see it time and time again with many games.  Companies can't retain vets who get bored and can't get new players to stay if the content is too hard or the new players feel "too far behind".  I have played a couple games for 6 1/2 years almost every day.  The only one I wish I had never left was EVE Online, but even that game has changed from the original concept.

[RunsWithChainsaws]

You know that 7 year itch...I think that is what is happening. 😛

[BLI7Z]

15 minutes ago, RunsWithChainsaws said:

Strange...Why do people want this to be multiplayer as in you need groups to do the content?  I left a game like that for just that reason.  I'm lucky to even be able to play with another person in this game given I disconnect if I don't host and my machine is a potato.

Wtf lol

[Ephemiel]

7 minutes ago, RunsWithChainsaws said:

From what I've seen, people rush through new content as fast as they can and then complain about being bored.  Then that puts developers on this forever treadmill trying to cater to those same never-satisfied people even though those people are likely not the people spending money on the game.  I see it time and time again with many games.  Companies can't retain vets who get bored and can't get new players to stay if the content is too hard or the new players feel "too far behind".  I have played a couple games for 6 1/2 years almost every day.  The only one I wish I had never left was EVE Online, but even that game has changed from the original concept.

That is a very good way to ignore the fact we gotta wait 8+ months for an update that can be beaten, in a casual matter, in around 3 hours.

[Goodwill]

Just now, Ephemiel said:

That is a very good way to ignore the fact we gotta wait 8+ months for an update that can be beaten, in a casual matter, in around 3 hours.

Yes, it's like those people who had to wait 3 years for Mario Kart 8 and they beat it in 2 hours... Games where an update can't be beaten within a few hours is generally because it has arbitrary grind walls or time gates. Not because of content, but because they simply changed a number from 1 to 8. Or from 4.0 to 0.8.

I would have to give Warframe props for not falling into the trap that essentially every other MMO does. Sure, the game has less longevity, but at least it isn't wasting as much of your time.

[RunsWithChainsaws]

Hmmm...I'm not ignoring it.  It just doesn't matter to me.  I'm not easily bored and I'm easily amused.  I even play a game that is just a digital paint by number program.  The only thing that bothers me actually doesn't bore me.  Games only do or don't irritate me.  I haven't found one that actually bores me.

[RunsWithChainsaws]

2 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

Yes, it's like those people who had to wait 3 years for Mario Kart 8 and they beat it in 2 hours... Games where an update can't be beaten within a few hours is generally because it has arbitrary grind walls or time gates. Not because of content, but because they simply changed a number from 1 to 8. Or from 4.0 to 0.8.

I would have to give Warframe props for not falling into the trap that essentially every other MMO does. Sure, the game has less longevity, but at least it isn't wasting as much of your time.

Yep...good point about time-gating.

[Ephemiel]

6 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

Yes, it's like those people who had to wait 3 years for Mario Kart 8 and they beat it in 2 hours... Games where an update can't be beaten within a few hours is generally because it has arbitrary grind walls or time gates. Not because of content, but because they simply changed a number from 1 to 8. Or from 4.0 to 0.8.

I would have to give Warframe props for not falling into the trap that essentially every other MMO does. Sure, the game has less longevity, but at least it isn't wasting as much of your time.

......are you REALLY comparing Warframe's content droughts with Mario Kart 8 [you know, that game where the point isn't to "beat it", but to play with other players]?

I am just done with this thread, the strawmaning and general insanity here are out of hand.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Ephemiel

[Ephemiel]

5 minutes ago, RunsWithChainsaws said:

Hmmm...I'm not ignoring it.  It just doesn't matter to me.  I'm not easily bored and I'm easily amused.  I even play a game that is just a digital paint by number program.  The only thing that bothers me actually doesn't bore me.  Games only do or don't irritate me.  I haven't found one that actually bores me.

"the proof against my argument doesn't matter to me, therefore i ignore it". 

 

Well done.

[Goodwill]

2 minutes ago, RunsWithChainsaws said:

Yep...good point about time-gating.

Warframe does have it, Foundry (-ish), Sorties and Events. But at least they don't have an energy system where you can only run worthwile "dungeons" a day and when your energy runs out, you get pittance from repeat runs or completely locked out of it.

[RunsWithChainsaws]

?

2 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

"the proof against my argument doesn't matter to me, therefore i ignore it". 

 

Well done.

I don't understand.  What argument?

[Gamma745]

3 hours ago, Fire2box said:

I don't get the whole "Take a break" when said break is implied to be months or longer. 

Tell me, do you people do that with anything else in your life? Would you tell DE Steve to take a break from developing warframe if he's burnt out on it and the community in fighting with itself? 

If it's not acceptable for your own life, dear god why is it for video games? If it's because "video games aren't important" then why do you care so deeply when someone criticizes the game you like to the point of you saying " No your wrong, go play something else."?  

 

Simple reason. This is supposed to be a leisure thing, a hobby, an entertainment, not a job. Steve position in Warframe is as a lead programmer, this is his job.

What would you say to someone who says that he is bored collecting action figures? Suddenly join him in protest to against the company to make more figures?

[RunsWithChainsaws]

4 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

Warframe does have it, Foundry (-ish), Sorties and Events. But at least they don't have an energy system where you can only run worthwile "dungeons" a day and when your energy runs out, you get pittance from repeat runs or completely locked out of it.

...or where you have to show up somewhere to harvest something that only spawns once a day and you need umpteen million of whatever.