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Veterans misunderstand why they don't enjoy playing the game anymore

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

ehhh.  Maybe.  I just feel like the main game feels super dated.  Like I love the new areas and tilesets but the feel of the game is still largely the same.  I think the only time this really changed was with parkour 2.0

True...and it's supposed to be. The star chart was amazing and gigantic when I first started playing in 2015 but four years later, at 1518 total hours played (as of today), I'm pretty used to them. Lol!

Jupiter and the updated earth sets are insane though and I still havent fully explored Jupiter.  The gas city spy missions are my favorite missions just because of the work put into it...and this is where I think DE had us in mind with the gas city rework, the Earth rework, PoE and Fortuna. Personally, I wouldve kept the old earth and Jupiter tilesets for starchart completion and then revealed new earth, gas city and the open worlds as endgamish setups. This way, the difficulty, balance and all of the vet "fixins" could be implemented without hurting the new player experience. Lore and factions unfolding within the open worlds and new tilesets would've made a big difference and would've better defined progression, IMO of course.

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17 hours ago, Monolake said:

what hurts WF the most is everything being obfuscated. And somehow DE only made it worse with Fortuna.

like how you need to max rank SU in order to get to little ducks vox solaris standing. I can't even imagine doing that when you get like 10k standing per day max at MR9 let alone lower. 

 

but don't worry. rep grind isn't going to be as bad as plains was. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

but don't worry. rep grind isn't going to be as bad as plains was. 

Wow.... it looks like Steve just lied to that guy.... :O

Jesus !!!

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On 2019-08-23 at 3:17 PM, 0_The_F00l said:

You are stating that there was a progress reset, that is not true, I could still use my old weapons and frames just as effectively with poe and Fortuna. I would term it more as a progress expansion. 

You need new set of resources exclusive from PoE and OV to get new gears, this is what I meant on progress reset because you can't straight up making things from there with your current resources

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13 minutes ago, 844448 said:

You need new set of resources exclusive from PoE and OV to get new gears, this is what I meant on progress reset because you can't straight up making things from there with your current resources

I am not sure reset is the term that suits the scenario. 

It would be a reset if the stuff I already have would be non useable or severely underpowered, which is not the case. 

If I had no weapons, no frames and no gear when starting poe or Fortuna it would be a reset. 

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10 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I am not sure reset is the term that suits the scenario. 

It would be a reset if the stuff I already have would be non useable or severely underpowered, which is not the case. 

If I had no weapons, no frames and no gear when starting poe or Fortuna it would be a reset. 

We can't have that or there will be a massive crowd of people with torches and pitchforks in front of DE office so material progression is "reset", where all of your materials is unusable until you combine it with open world resources, in a sense is a reset, but not on your gears

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1 minute ago, 844448 said:

We can't have that or there will be a massive crowd of people with torches and pitchforks in front of DE office so material progression is "reset", where all of your materials is unusable until you combine it with open world resources, in a sense is a reset, but not on your gears

Maybe in your head that's a reset, I don't agree with it though. 

What you have mentioned is just new resources and weapons. 

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I was about to make a similar thread but we can basically say veterans have either the resources or the platinum to just get the new content right away, whales will buy the new stuff all the same and all those time gates which lock out the content (or should I say PAD the content) only hinder new players or those who want to grind for it.

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I would be ok with parts of a new summit. Gear reset would be a big no since WF simply isnt linear and new gear to hunt would not solve the power creep at all, it would just make it far worse. It would make far more old content even less enjoyable.

I would however be ok with a new grind summit for every new release. New materials needed for new frames and weapons to a greater extent than what we have now. Maybe even have content specific weapons that are very hard to obtain but as a bonus they come with a weapon slot.

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Vets need some kind of PvEvP in this game for self sustaining content. 

I honestly think some kind of 3rd person Moba style mode would fit WF. 

Other than that, the devs hands are tied. This game isn't about challenge really. So they can't gate any rewards behind difficulty. This community won't play difficult content without rewards either. 

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Eidolons was the only interesting thing that happened to WF in years (and it combined the need for good 'old' gear and grinding for the new operator gear too)

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Well it's a very subjective topic, but one thing we all can agree on is this... Mainline updates could use some speeding up. 

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Just now, --C--Nehra said:

Well it's a very subjective topic, but one thing we all can agree on is this... Mainline updates could use some speeding up. 

Define "speeding up" because I really doubt you won't complain if they release mainline updates early and turns out bugged

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Just now, 844448 said:

Define "speeding up" because I really doubt you won't complain if they release mainline updates early and turns out bugged

Speeding up means breaking them in chunks and idk maybe hire some new staff, and avoid wasting manpower over useless (again subjective) gimmicks. Company knows better of course. But they make profits, and I am sure could pull this off decently. And bugs will always be there, minor ones I mean. 

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On 2019-08-22 at 9:11 PM, Aldain said:

I don't believe that DE should design much (if any) content around the current damage ceiling mainly because the current gap between average and high damage is about as wide as the distance between the Earth and Mars and designing content around such a gap would create content that would be D.O.A.

Makes me wonder if difficulty selection might be a thing in the future.

They’re kind of already doing it with those things you crafted for plague star that made the boss more difficult or that new game mode (whatever it’s called) allowing you to start multiple nodes at once.

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On 2019-08-23 at 5:51 AM, 844448 said:

 

(I don't believe you if you say you don't have at least 1 resource at 999,999 in your inventory because I have around 2 resources sitting at 1m+)

But I don't.... I wish I did.... sadly it seems like im the odd one out. 

 

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2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Vets need some kind of PvEvP in this game for self sustaining content. 

I honestly think some kind of 3rd person Moba style mode would fit WF. 

Other than that, the devs hands are tied. This game isn't about challenge really. So they can't gate any rewards behind difficulty. This community won't play difficult content without rewards either. 

Can you explain how PvEvP will serve as self sustaining content? Conclave is hardly touched by a player, I doubt vets would touch it

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8 hours ago, Fire2box said:

like how you need to max rank SU in order to get to little ducks vox solaris standing. I can't even imagine doing that when you get like 10k standing per day max at MR9 let alone lower. 

 

but don't worry. rep grind isn't going to be as bad as plains was. 

 

I think the big problem here isn't that DE learned their mistake with PoE - but that they band-aid fixed it.  So the grind that PoE had, all the time, materials etc - was bypassed when thumpers were added (resource dumps, similarly with Exploiter Orb).  Giving surplus resources that you don't really need now.

 

I remember the old system in WoW Burning Crusade/ Wrath of The Lich King, where you needed to do a handful of certain quests to have the ability to do a dungeon, to get a thing to eventually do a raid. While I understand the hate for that system, since you can't get to the juicy content immediately, it gave a sense of progression + actually feeling like you're doing some lorewise.  However, since DE doesn't really utilize their lore properly, nor do they balance the grind our properly, it feels like a garbled mess.

With Fortuna, there is a lore reason why you don't unlock Vox Solaris immediately, you need to earn their trust - makes sense. And it also makes sense that higher mastery rank players unlock that stuff faster as a 'reward' for playing through and trying out many of the weapons/frames playing the game. However, what backfires on DE is that many of the weapons/frames aren't fun to play for many, so they don't want to venture out and try them, when they're just a waste of resources. If they made more fun and interesting weapons, that actually deal damage (cough, rebalance cough) then it would greatly fix that. 

 

Not to mention having to level Vox Solaris once you get to that stage. 

7 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Wow.... it looks like Steve just lied to that guy.... 😮

Jesus !!!

Pretty much.  In a way fortuna was just as bad, it just took another angle on the grind. A bit more time over the quantity and variety of resources needed to progress like in PoE.

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8 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Wow.... it looks like Steve just lied to that guy.... 😮

Jesus !!!

Steve replied to me saying something about "Different data". No idea what he means. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, 844448 said:

Can you explain how PvEvP will serve as self sustaining content? Conclave is hardly touched by a player, I doubt vets would touch it

You'd be surprised but we had that with darksector conflicts, it was a mess but it was played and created some fun drama, clans paying people to fight for them. DE axed it and never brought back.

Edited by Monolake

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15 hours ago, Fire2box said:

Steve replied to me saying something about "Different data". No idea what he means. 

Could be he meant it was different from the angle that they were talking about in regards to Plains versus Fortuna grinding. In some ways Fortuna is easier, in others due to the bonds and how Profit Taker giving the hardest bonds to obtain but only after you don't need them anymore, is its own cluster of eggs.

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Veterans dont even "Need" new content, while new content would be nice, all that is needed is varied repeatable content that is "Fun", games like UT99, Counterstrike and way way more did not have any form of progression of extra content beyond new maps, what they had going for them tho was their fun factor.  Warframes issue is that their newer content for quite a while simply is not fun, it is new stuff dumped on you with the sole purpose to slow progress and enhance timegating till the nest new thing while the important stuff like new warframes & cosmetics get released which are the money earners.

In 1 of the older "making of.." videos and the occasional dev stream it was mentioned that Warframes lego styled mapping system was made out of necessity to allow large maps to be made in a quicker time than taking far longer to make large, slow to release maps and their mapping system made them stand out above ALL competition at the time.  Warframes closest sci-fi horde shooter counterpart at the time would have been Mass Effect 3: Multiplayer, ME3:MP had very very slow releases on any new maps and some werent even new, they would just add lazy weather effects to existing maps like snow/fog, then warframe came along and had their unique mapping system that blew ME3:MP out of the water.

Now instead of learning their self admitted lesson that large slow content releases would be bad, they have decided to follow the rest of the sheep and make maps just like the rest of the other dev teams out there, abandoning their original lego mapping system and bringing in near instant tedium on static large maps, had they buckled down and enhanced their mapping system by adding more room types, making room contents have randomized content to give much more variety then probably that alone would make warframe less tedious and boring over a large number of years of playing.

They could even have made a sort of lego'ish outdoor mapping system if they wanted too, because once such a thing is completed, map variety would have been amazing, esp when you consider we are dropping down onto planets/ships/facilities and see the same old stuff in mercury as you do in sedna, this is moreso in gametypes like defence, a gametype that could badly do with some form of inner map variations.

So yeah at least vets in my case became pretty underwhelmed with updates when what made warframe unique and fun in the first place is pretty much untouched here in 2019, we still mostly sprint through the same corridors and room segments as we did in 2013, play the same limited number of defence/interception/etc maps even on supposedly different planets.  I know many vets dont mind it, but I am 1 of the probable few that also has zero interest or intent with the boring updates that added fishing/mining/catching pokemon/etc, they have a place maybe for collecting side/cosmetic stuff but as main progression mechanics they are forced and unwanted and only add to my dislike of future updates knowing what is added is mostly hollow and dull.

Enhance Warframe-Classic side of things, as in the room based run and gun in a major way and I would expect more vets like me would play for longer or return for another look.

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On 2019-08-23 at 2:47 AM, (PS4)Dishinshoryuken said:

Interesting take on boiling down players of this day and age. I am from the Atari 2600/Arcades days where playing a game did not need to give a reason to play. Playing was the reason in itself. We lined up quarters to play street fights and did final fights over and over to get to the point of using one quarter.

The game studios were the ones that would update to parts 2 and forth with the claim of balance and adding new characters it story elements, but it was mainly to get more quarters out of the masses. And it was good for some time. Then home systems started having the same graphics and abilities as the arcades and to keep the drive going to the quarter machines, tournaments started being held. And now look at tourneys nowadays. Prizes in the hundreds to millions.

What I, as a long time player, enjoy about Warframe is not the challenge seeking or the plat highs....but the game is basically giving what I wanted from all those other games- it keeps growing and giving more each year. It's what many wish would happen with Call of Duty or Street Fighter. Not another $60 dishout for the latest model and make all that you have done before disappear just to have a remake 10 years later of the same thing for another money grab from the new player base. It grows and you feel as if you are part of that growth. It's the young ones that do not recall playing before the Video Game recession that are getting bored quickly as they are used to jumping from one game to another to give the money to the company.

I have been interested in Warframe since it came on XB1 and as I found out more about the company, the battle to make the game, and where it can go...I have not tired of it. Hek, it's the main reason I went from the XB 360 to the One (plus winning a free system helped).

There is no real path or number chart to say what reason any player is tired of Warframe. Most don't even know what they want in a mate much less a game that has lasted this long being F2P. If you can boil it down, congratz....might make some players look at themselves in a differing light. But no matter what DE or Warframe does, players will complain and players will play it. It's a part of video game life nowadays.

Cheers

You, i like you

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-08-24 at 4:31 PM, Tinklzs said:

Know why I played raids during my time in wow? I wanted a challenge.

I played Greater Rifts in Diablo 3 because I wanted a challenge with equal rewards for said challenge.

I play higher tier maps in Path of Exile because I like to push my builds to the limit and I get rewards for my time.

In warframe, I can spend any length of time in a mission and get the same rewards as someone who left at the first rotation, while the mission gets harder. 

They don't need to make new content every few months, I mean hell - Team Fortress 2 hasn't gotten an update in almost TWO YEARS yet players are still religiously playing it. Why is that? Because that repeatable content is rewarding.  Warframe's content is situationally rewarding, that 80 endo is nice at first, until you realize you can get 200, 400, 1600 down the line. Those 2500-3500 credit caches are amazing, until you can make 100x that from index for far less work, with a frame/build you can make in your first 2 hours of playing (rhino). 

 

And the when you suggest someone, with valid criticisms to go play something else, because you cannot find a reason for it - shows you aren't here for discussion but for blind defense. Warframe has many problems that can be fixed, and they won't be fixed by playing something else.  Even Destiny, with all of it's problems, brings in new players while respecting older players, and without alienating them. DE needs to pay attention and take notes from other games that have already gone through these 'phases' and start fixing these problems. 

You're mistaking the reason to play something else. The reason why everyone is telling the vets, who are unhappy, to just play something else is because you guys are expecting things to change fast. It just doesn't work that way and DE Steve even mentioned it. I never said there wouldn't be an endgame or your version of "sustainable content". What I and many others are simply saying is that you're not going to get it...yet.

Because it takes time. Warframe is a HUMONGOUS, graphic hungry and fast paced game that eats the rendering needs in content like WoW, Path of Exile and even Destiny for breakfast. None of those games require the depth of design Warframe requires. It's not even a contest. However, make no mistake, WE ALL WANT SUSTAINABLE CONTENT. Who doesn't? The difference is that those other vets, like me, can see DE's approach towards it's delivery of that content and understand it won't happen for a while...and that while looks to be Railjack and Duviri much more than New War.

Endgame, and the like, requires turning this game into a "balanced but difficult" mechanic from a purposely built "overpowered fantasy" mechanic. That is literally anti-warframe, so the best thing to do is to introduce something different that allows those new mechanics to make sense, IMO. Duviri could be that endgame element while Empyrean handles other sustainable, repeatable content but in a more active way. My opinions of course but it's what I see.

Edited by (PS4)GEN-Son_17
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5 minutes ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

You're mistaking the reason to play something else. The reason why everyone is telling the vets, who are unhappy, to just play something else is because you guys are expecting things change fast. It just doesn't work that way and DE Steve even mentioned it. I've never said there wouldn't be an endgame or your version of "sustainable content". What I and many others are simply saying is that you're not going to get it...yet.

Because it takes time. Warframe is a HUMONGOUS, graphic hungry and fast paced game that eats the rendering needs in content like WoW, Path of Exile and even Destiny for breakfast. None of those games require the depth of design Warframe requires. It's not even a contest. However, make no mistake, WE ALL WANT SUSTAINABLE CONTENT. Who doesn't? The difference is that those other vets, like me, can see DE's approach on it's delivery of that content and understand it won't happen for a while...and that while looks to be Railjack and Duviri much more than New War. Turning this game into a "balanced but difficult" mechanic from a purposely built "overpowered fantasy" mechanic is anti-warframe, so the best thing to do is to introduce something different that allows those new mechanics to make sense, IMO. Duviri could be that.

been literally waiting 6 years with repeated grind (same missions) for this change that guy stated in your quote. Progression in warframe has no purpose right now, you can do all content at all levels essentially. (Kuva survival can be done after war within with basic mods is what I am getting at, no player progression needed for anything in the game or complex gameplay).

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