Jump to content
[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE

Recommended Posts

Console player anxiously awaiting the update...

With the new Melee changes, odd question but does the combat feel even more visceral/intense than before?  Has anyone noticed any change in the dismemberment aspect?  Honestly keep hoping DE decides to increase the dismemberment/gore a bit more in the future....For me it really adds to the adrenaline factor in gameplay...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, I'd like to add my opinion on the melee changes. Overall I loved it. Actually I only got into this game cause how ninja it feels like and melee is a huge part of that. I like that using combos is finally a thing. I can consistently use them now. A little trouble with the ADS ones though but still enjoy it.

In another note, spinning attack nerf...

I consider myself lucky to have prepared a few melee weapons prior to this. With rivens. Trying to use maiming playstyle now is a joke... Weapons that had almost no crit, but thanks to maiming could get above 200%, now are stuck at 100%. Damage is awful. 

Condition Overload is ok. Not 1 million damage but it can kill tough guys.

Maiming strike went from a must have mod to a unnecessary one. Why does it feel like DE keeps 'nerfing' all the things I enjoy...

TLDR: Awesome melee rework. Didn't like maiming nerf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like the changes overall. Weapons and stances feel notably more unique with the extra details of knockdowns and lifts on specific hits, along with how you can use the stance animations more fluidly. It's bit unfortunate that finisher openers are gone for weapons that had a hard time killing heavy units, but it does speed things up and keep the flow going.

Input Buffer Window

The buffer window for inputting the next attack is waaaaay too big. It's way too easy to accidentally throw out more animations than intended. I'd suggest making the input buffer window around 6 or 10 frames away from the end of the animation. Enough that it' still easy to mash out a combo, but few enough that  you won't get stuck in a combo for quickly pressing E too many times to start an attack.

Also, PLEASE add the ability to jump cancel melee attacks.

Heavy Attacks

Heavy attacks are cool. (I really dig the lift effect from standing heavies on swords and heavy blades, in particular.)  But they aren't strong enough. It's SO CLOSE to being amazing though. A big part of the problem is that right now, it's necessary to build for them specifically to make them good, because sacrificing the whole bar of combo meter isn't worth the loss of of crit multiplier. Even if you do get one powerful shot (which isn't always enough to kill, and doesn't always crit or proc status), you're back at square one of momentum again. It's always more effective to just kill that target with regular attacks.

Even if you build for it though, it still isn't especially better than just using normal stance attacks. It's still necessary to build up momentum first to get those heavy attacks hitting hard. And at the moment, they just don't hit hard enough to justify the cost and time needed to build the combo meter, even with Focus Energy and Reflex Coil making it possible to swing more than once, or with Killing Blow buffing the damage. Given that those mod slots are being used at the expense of things that could buff the weapon in general, rather than just heavy attacks, it's really underwhelming to have a heavy attack build just barely be able to keep up with a regular one. Especially with the need to use dedicated melee mode to use heavy attacks.

Suggested Solutions

I think it would be the most fun if heavy attacks had their own meter, separate from the combo meter. This way heavy attacks would be something that adds to all melee builds, that you could also build toward if you wanted. It would also solve the issue of it not being worth it to ever use heavy attacks, turning it into a thing you'd wanna use at every opportunity. It could allow heavy attacks to reliably make use of the combo meter's crit multiplier, giving us the option of having a weaker quick melee in exchange for a stronger dedicated melee by building for heavy attacks.

If you wanna stick with it expending the combo meter, making heavy attacks use less meter per swing (or at the very least not ALL the meter) would be a necessary start to use heavy attacks outside of low level missions for fun. Having specific buffs to the heavy attack itself (higher crit chance, status chance, a hundred billion base damage, etc.) would also make it easier to build for. Heavy attack builds are kinda inconsistent right now. It crits, or it doesn't. It procs, or it doesn't. With single hits, you really feel having lower crit and status chance. RNG determines whether or not something feels like a waste of meter and time, and the consequences can be several more seconds needed to deal with a single enemy.

 

Side Notes

It can be somewhat awkward to hit lifted enemies at the moment. Especially if you aren't using a Reach mod. I dunno why, just a heads up.

Nikana's Tranquil Cleave stance feels really clunky compared to the other two, mainly due to the standing E multi stab combo being awkward to use. I dunno how to solve it, but it feels weird to play with.

I'm dunno if it's a glitch, but Nikana air attacks don't stagger enemies, but every other kind of weapon does. Some weapons even get knockdowns. Can we get some lockdown effect on Nikana air attacks?

Dual Daggers's Gnashing Payara standing E combo is awful. The third hit can't hit, because the second hit lifts the enemy away. So you just slash the air and wait for it to be over, and the wasted time makes it hard. Makes it necessary to roll cancel out of and reorient on the target to get a finisher stab on the downed enemy. I'd be happy if the third attack was just deleted and nothing else was changed.

Is it possible to improve the consistency of downed finisher stabs, in general? I end up doing generic melee attacks on downed enemies all the time when I want the finisher stab, and I have no idea why. Even when I'm right up close and aiming at the target, it still happens.

Can the input for aerial slam attacks be changed to holding E, instead of just pressing it? IT would make it much simpler to choose to use an aerial attack, versus a slam.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The mele changes are great, but there is one thing that bothers me. Heavy attacks can't be executed in the "gun mode" like normal attacks. You have to be in the mele mode or do the quick attack first. I see no good reason for it. It just takes away from fighting dynamic, especially for newer players using mod to heal on the heavy attack, or doing heavy graund slam after bullet jump shooting. 

Can you please make it passible to do heavy attacks the way you can do normal ones? 

Thanks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-31 at 5:32 PM, MaraWuti said:

Have.. have you actually played a non-Cyclone melee build in PoE since Legion dropped? Because PoE's melee is clunky garbage right now and even more in need of a drastic rework than Warframe's melee.

cyclone is for noobs. you just assumed I use cyclone because I main melee in warframe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already said it elsewhere, but please, fix the Glaive.

Their whole point was ease of use. They allowed dual wield and worked wonderfully with secondaries. This update destroyed this since the dual wield doesn't allows us to detonate the Glaive. Instead we need to get into full melee stance, and lose the dual wield in the process.

A weapon that was fun to use got nerfed for literally no reason. Sure Glaive was strong, but it clearly didn't deserves a nerf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, i been thinking that bonus-EXP should be obtained from bounties, syndicate and clem sidequest such as practice mode and qualify to be intriguing for players to have augments, and skin/item or mod rewards which aren't presented well, the syndicates have most of the super mods, and rivens are missing until much later with story, so it would be good to use practice mode, and scanning precepts, robotics and training rewards for weapons / melee to feel realistic.

I spent a great deal of time on the playstation failing the rank quest before somebody told me there was a place to practice, so i though it would be good to also with the difficulty and melee increases to include some mode rewards and enhancers which could make players get augments, kitparts, or rivens from bounties and training modes, and opening lockers / hacking also could be a good place to add enfeeblements which last temporarily for reload and the warframe, both detrimental and good/bad, elemental/status pickups, and other assortment of pickups or rewards might be more interesting, such as the ayatan stars which seem pointless to players using melee to give some sleight powers to enemies and players who are near them, while the players who collect them get a meter with and powers.

(neatstacks, and other attachments) found in boxes, bins, and ballistics.

players lose or will rush to extraction, without using many of the games areas, so game areas need sprinklers and more realism to make the melee weapons feel better, reasons to call for blocking several radiator, or steam, and falling rocks,ice, or whatever which can cause energy damage deficiencies, not just armor reductions. 

also good to examine the ability to smash open some lockers and computers which can drop parts, while scanning them and hacking could have blueprints and some mods or items / map data orbs could be new ways to pin point, or fragments of such parts, it can be simple items as special types of bullets or powerups traped behind ICE or  hidden, using a key or watever,

team mates usually required for double doors, that could be a cool place to power up melee and fire rate for weapons for players who work together or protect each other while they are hacking and defending, while the players who are out exploring or fishing can get other types +A , maybe some air support and robotic or syndicate helpers will be fine for now, i tried to transport some refuges back to the base but they blew up in a fire fight, so there should be other melee vigilantes. who are willing to help, animals to fight / hire in the open worlds, also think mining should include raw kit-bones, and ember or parts which can be fun to look at, decorations, and turned in for sigils, if the player has an excess of jewels or points, but its fair to find FOSSILS and other mods, or blueprints which have been crystalized or require slotting / faceting / or polish.

, the usual hitting of a computer could cause RECOIL and other negative effects / machine guns, electronics, or shields to shoot or enemies that appear,

many flying robots are hard to hit with melee

Edited by SnakeBadger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

I already said it elsewhere, but please, fix the Glaive.

Their whole point was ease of use. They allowed dual wield and worked wonderfully with secondaries. This update destroyed this since the dual wield doesn't allows us to detonate the Glaive. Instead we need to get into full melee stance, and lose the dual wield in the process.

A weapon that was fun to use got nerfed for literally no reason. Sure Glaive was strong, but it clearly didn't deserves a nerf.

  • reply: yeah that sounds like problems, i look foward to this patch and new features added or ideas & suggestions 🙂.
  • also, i think fishing and minning gadjets, and tools should have their combat and melee fishing revisited.
  • when posible ideas to get special rewards and mods or customization might wanna tie in the kit-spear and kit-bow into the game areas of fortuna and cetus since they are hunting inspired areas, while the relays and syndicates get there special builds on the kit-parts for zaws and lunaro or pvp bounties which might make the game exciting to play.
  • there is shooting fish at fish or water which is not complete, so some parts or ideal recoild should be added that some fish can electrocute or shoot like the megaman robots.
  • spears have a function to throw and receive, so its not difficult ot see a few attacks or special features which feature them recoiling or electrocuting. while the minning guns and other habitat or scanner features can be used to call confusion or nearby wildlife to help with rocks or weapons they pickup from enemies, items, with some music changes, there can be like a giant bear or some sand monsters and ally shipments / rouge who appear to lend a hand.
  • bounties and quest / missions need EXP bonus and parts to craft, wheter kit-parts with low stats, endo, mods, and increased rewards comes first, i hope that more robotics and board parts or stickers are added, while melee is seing other  magic or status effects, or whatever since they are in high demand,
  • maybe with the ability to maybe give a bonus or special when they hit to the warframe or enemy, or team mates which can make sense if they heal or call up wild creatures nearby if its the glaive in the open world, 
  • then i think the glaive ought to have a pet bird or small set of turret
  • sensors
  • which fires a B_motary-lasor beam and scans or has minning precets and defensive powers 
  • and that while wielding it it can gain momentum energy for special attacks, shield mode, and leave husk which mark areas, the fire rate and collected protozoa in the blueprint are aughmented by the day/night, while the energy collected amount reflects the ephemeral changes and luster.
  • , to change the fire rate, and throw fireatures could be a good glaive feature until further discussion it should extend the minimap, and scale the game for agents and syndicates who are on teh field getting data and lockers unlocked while they discover kitgun, kitbow, and kitparts for the archwing, warframes, and mods.
  • the excavators also should include several guns and features agains damage, a recoil or small vauban technology to bounce back enemies could be really visually awesome.
  • sensors & magnetic aughments and modules discovered during excavations instead of deCrypted data, and resources replaced the loot to guard with thether, and special features, rework of extraction and entry points which to defend or use particular pickups needs to get melee or magicked in part , the minimap will be a decent place to include other visuals and the zoom features.
  •  
Edited by SnakeBadger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-11-04 at 12:26 PM, (PS4)Touha9 said:

Console player anxiously awaiting the update...

With the new Melee changes, odd question but does the combat feel even more visceral/intense than before?  Has anyone noticed any change in the dismemberment aspect?  Honestly keep hoping DE decides to increase the dismemberment/gore a bit more in the future....For me it really adds to the adrenaline factor in gameplay...

yes, well the bodies should be more riggid and armored i think they are too fleeshy for most enemies to just get ripped to chunks and drop crap and players dont seem covered in blood or lagging from attacks which means tehres no detriments or lack of weight from going in a blood rush or attacks in the game, especially in infested missions the realism is not there, but the gore IS.

the next DPS patch on melee weapons i think demoed a few grinner with heavier bounce on their body parts, and looked very solid, but they should also block and use some magics which might be interesting to get some radiation and other utterances which could be interesting to keep melee players off their close range, and give them a chance at survival so players, its really good in fortuna with the jetpack guys, but there are alot of discrept enemies who die and make rounds seem like a waste of time, the rewards for lith and extraction need some support / and lotus is doing all the work, i think its fair to see that other planets get new NPC and features and special OPS so archwing can be upgraded , and robotics, while pvp and lunaro spread through the system with new datacaps, opponents, and rewarding enemies and quest, as well as treasure chests or DLC.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-11-04 at 1:45 PM, (XB1)stupidfateat said:

I bet that instead of really nerfing maiming strike they gonna buff the hell out of it 

 

i dont know what maiming strike is, but i know that gauss has no special reload or melee feature or expansions or augments which change this from my level of understanding i think this could be a good place to patch gauss, and other warframe's attacks such as barrok and other abilities that chroma or gara use while there are no enemies in place and  vice versa with new sub-weapons or a glass sword, while the egi- i seen it walking around on its own once, just floating it should have mouth blasts and lasers like ROBITICS and otherwise feature kubro or latency for advanced players who can modify their chromas and pets, excalibur is one of the melee warframes, and so was volt, i dont have many complains, probably some graphical enhancements for the whole is missing sliding and bullet jumping animations need magic and flashy things maybe related to the snow, or type of shoot . weapon and combined ephemeras, and energy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-11-04 at 4:46 PM, Druidx said:

I really like the changes overall. Weapons and stances feel notably more unique with the extra details of knockdowns and lifts on specific hits, along with how you can use the stance animations more fluidly. It's bit unfortunate that finisher openers are gone for weapons that had a hard time killing heavy units, but it does speed things up and keep the flow going.

Input Buffer Window

The buffer window for inputting the next attack is waaaaay too big. It's way too easy to accidentally throw out more animations than intended. I'd suggest making the input buffer window around 6 or 10 frames away from the end of the animation. Enough that it' still easy to mash out a combo, but few enough that  you won't get stuck in a combo for quickly pressing E too many times to start an attack.

Also, PLEASE add the ability to jump cancel melee attacks.

Heavy Attacks

Heavy attacks are cool. (I really dig the lift effect from standing heavies on swords and heavy blades, in particular.)  But they aren't strong enough. It's SO CLOSE to being amazing though. A big part of the problem is that right now, it's necessary to build for them specifically to make them good, because sacrificing the whole bar of combo meter isn't worth the loss of of crit multiplier. Even if you do get one powerful shot (which isn't always enough to kill, and doesn't always crit or proc status), you're back at square one of momentum again. It's always more effective to just kill that target with regular attacks.

Even if you build for it though, it still isn't especially better than just using normal stance attacks. It's still necessary to build up momentum first to get those heavy attacks hitting hard. And at the moment, they just don't hit hard enough to justify the cost and time needed to build the combo meter, even with Focus Energy and Reflex Coil making it possible to swing more than once, or with Killing Blow buffing the damage. Given that those mod slots are being used at the expense of things that could buff the weapon in general, rather than just heavy attacks, it's really underwhelming to have a heavy attack build just barely be able to keep up with a regular one. Especially with the need to use dedicated melee mode to use heavy attacks.

Suggested Solutions

I think it would be the most fun if heavy attacks had their own meter, separate from the combo meter. This way heavy attacks would be something that adds to all melee builds, that you could also build toward if you wanted. It would also solve the issue of it not being worth it to ever use heavy attacks, turning it into a thing you'd wanna use at every opportunity. It could allow heavy attacks to reliably make use of the combo meter's crit multiplier, giving us the option of having a weaker quick melee in exchange for a stronger dedicated melee by building for heavy attacks.

If you wanna stick with it expending the combo meter, making heavy attacks use less meter per swing (or at the very least not ALL the meter) would be a necessary start to use heavy attacks outside of low level missions for fun. Having specific buffs to the heavy attack itself (higher crit chance, status chance, a hundred billion base damage, etc.) would also make it easier to build for. Heavy attack builds are kinda inconsistent right now. It crits, or it doesn't. It procs, or it doesn't. With single hits, you really feel having lower crit and status chance. RNG determines whether or not something feels like a waste of meter and time, and the consequences can be several more seconds needed to deal with a single enemy.

 

Side Notes

It can be somewhat awkward to hit lifted enemies at the moment. Especially if you aren't using a Reach mod. I dunno why, just a heads up.

Nikana's Tranquil Cleave stance feels really clunky compared to the other two, mainly due to the standing E multi stab combo being awkward to use. I dunno how to solve it, but it feels weird to play with.

I'm dunno if it's a glitch, but Nikana air attacks don't stagger enemies, but every other kind of weapon does. Some weapons even get knockdowns. Can we get some lockdown effect on Nikana air attacks?

Dual Daggers's Gnashing Payara standing E combo is awful. The third hit can't hit, because the second hit lifts the enemy away. So you just slash the air and wait for it to be over, and the wasted time makes it hard. Makes it necessary to roll cancel out of and reorient on the target to get a finisher stab on the downed enemy. I'd be happy if the third attack was just deleted and nothing else was changed.

Is it possible to improve the consistency of downed finisher stabs, in general? I end up doing generic melee attacks on downed enemies all the time when I want the finisher stab, and I have no idea why. Even when I'm right up close and aiming at the target, it still happens.

Can the input for aerial slam attacks be changed to holding E, instead of just pressing it? IT would make it much simpler to choose to use an aerial attack, versus a slam.

 

 

i think the charge up attacks could have other sound effects based on the acustics and AOE areas if its in the forests or nearby pick-ups, and set of enemies to punchthrough, depending the mods, the effects can be status-effective poison, energy beam choice throwing a charged saber if the energy is present is a great ranged attack option for katanas, and circular attacks with lots of leafs and sandstorming, enemy parts flying by hitting for minimal damage and ricoshes, or bounces back from enemies as damage modifiyerss so nobody winds up winnign to fast to cause a balance, a map like mars determines the attacks and statuses. builing from the sand enemies underneath largerones and smallerones and aerial or gravity changes which affects the warframes energies and chemiestries, in comparison the rain and dust from enemy bullets on block, shields fragment into explosions of their own binary colors, dealing their own unique radiant lights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-11-01 at 4:12 PM, Geefal said:

TY again for good nerfs, now the melee is going to trash. And for me, as for melee player, the story of this game ends, until the melee will be reconstructed again in the better way. 

Get back the channeling! Get back the old combo counter! The max. combo counter is 12 for now with fixed blood rush, seriously? The Fulmin will deal more damage for 40+ minutes of survivng for now in missions with starting lvl 35+. No any significance to take the Life Strike. "1 strike for deliting all combo counter? - amazing" (sarcasm). No channeling block.  Just no more fun, for example, with Volt and fully maxed power for the second skill for melee attacks (yes, i really like it!).

The first update in my mind, that i really dont want to see in future of Warframe (with the exepction of new combo variants, manual blocking and visualy beautiful slams and heavy attacks).

(P.S. Heavy attacks and slams looks visual pretty good, yes, i like it, thank you for the work, but they are useless...)

Im sorry, if i did a grammar or any another mistakes, my Eng. is not the best. Thanks.

  1. i think based on the weapon the player is wielding there should be some zaws and kit-parts and items rewarded for the players through the game, they can defeat many enemies with guns with melee weapons or magic abilities, but should receive other items other than mods, and robotic precepts, and databanked ammo/  resource boosters on the job, a few weapon keys and blueprints and temporary effects will make combat more interesting when using the parazon and hacking, or looting enemies after thy, awards and credits, but we need to have syndicate mods make more sense to players from the start of missions with various random stats like those dungeons in final fantasy xiv, when the mission starts some small electronics should power up the hammers and pistons inside the equiped rods fuelcells reacting with teh items and melee, and the sigils change this with combot and critical hits and the players can equip the different ones they obtained for special conversion of resources and prickups, or ephemeral effects, visually good ways to introduce players to the new and old features by performing rolling and bullet jump to trigger other special attacks and precepts without calling for some special mod.
  2. melee mods could look different or feature some changes, i was really impresed by the weapons having their own slots to enhance they but maybe this should be moved over to something that either unlocks some passive charges, UI or stance with rankUP and or include its own set of unique icons and features beyond the basic overlay of the upgrade and arsenal screen to have small sound efefcts and music changes in the future, maybe equiping mods can include some new NPC radio - in with some emails and rewarding kit-parts, and mods, and bounties-sublevel chanllenges for the melee duelist to earn aughments for those weapons and rivens which are unique or tradable., or increases with level 
Edited by SnakeBadger
Cephalon practice mode rewards and EXP, adding new features for relays and syndicate, melee attacks symbols and number replacing critical hits and effects at times might save on data, or be faster than some effects or warframe abilities until furthermaint

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  1. some visual naramonUP like xenogears increases their effects drastically later-on replacing digits or number on attacks with other features and symbols.which replace NUMBERS. But i think for now some additional markings and effects on the enemies defeated some X's and other interesting marking for scanning and data aquisition, hacking overides might be really good for cetus and fortuna robots and squadrons of enemies marked by abilities and defeated somehow else with melee being different, healing another marking, and the pickups on how they add to those effects... very_interesting way to see our charged attacks containing their counter/naramon values and forgo the elemental and status effects for other new features,
  2. while the old channeling mode teamporarily be triggered from changing modes, sliding, rolling or air-attacks, and slams, maybe the low-health and downed tenno could walk around in slow motion instead of dying with their weapons ala - riven *heartbeat* UI *noise* blur, revive options, or shoot and control the moa or summon the archwings support features in some grounds turrets and overshields,and terminal gamma rays on game-over could be weaved into each warframe when they are downed with energy abilities and crawling so enemies dont just shoot you on the floor like a jag, they should be throwing the players around and planting teh leg things or using other confinements which players have to escape status effects and traps, not just dying for a safe place to hide, music changes, and rewards based on this survival like cephalan bearing exp markings and supporting magic, or SFX/VVFX
  3.  or sometimes after a heavy attack in the snow should differ from one in another planet with mud, pickups and water splashing on the players and screen+gore which taints some players HP and meters,
  4. this weather vfx+sound relative to the areas passive gravities, and relative weathers, items, and enemy types might be more interesting for melee to occasionally get blasted back or electrified / electrocuted, and other accustic precepts which stances and blueprints should have naturally bonuses and effects for walling and walking to be effectivem 
  5. realative for melee :  weathering grasses, snow, water, and shields effects alocate sound effects and music changes or combos trigger magical functions per warframe / stance / pickups such as ayatan stars are an example of triggering effects with temporary resolve to each planet's dynamic effects or weather which react to give the weapon new or kinetic effects on its charged and slam attacks, dashing and sliding, as well as the movment and block-juncture
  • i was just thinking that maybe that the scanner and zoom features could be used to summon special weapons such as enemy riffles or robotics on some characters who can use the scanner further and other game mechanics lik enyx psionic attack on scan OR teleportation which might seem fair for some areas where there is energy pickups and other items to give nekros and limbo a few tricks or special attacks while they are performing their abilities and the player is just looking around the area stuck in an animation(s) ,  without calling up the wheel some enemies weapons could be summoned or picked up by dashing over wasting their clips in rapid fire finisher, a ballast of bullets and data, double jump and slam attack on dead bodies still somewhat pointles, maybe a rewarding feature to scan a wide area.
  • cephalon incentives to partake or retry practice mode, and rewards,
  • exp for melee and weapons
  • teach naramon through combat with gestures and dodging symbolic runes, and special rewards or points. 
  •  charged attacks ideas: in different planets and areas, attack weapons or benefit warframes, new sfx and visuals add elements to melee combat on without large mods you can make a slam or charge attack look specially like street fighter hadoken with grass and light which distract other enemies katanas!
  • in some cases while crouching and wall latching or rolling to summon or shape shift some blades range+ without a bunch of mods unless you make the mods and stances better to toggle the OLD energy channel and other aspected-benefits to summon a magical lightning bolt or fishdolphin, and wings or fashionable gun changers for the Prim-and Secondary game, reaload and energy should be accumulating from melee attacks, and slide function should be reworked with some new effects on collecting loot and energy,new sounds and combat music, while randomly awarding syndicate numbers and simaris points impresive points towards cetus and relay goods, fortuna, or watever.
  •  TEMPORARY STUFF - toggling energy channel, getting combos and mods or items could elevate players to get some temporary statuses and crowns for melee, the pickups and energy pellets are not specialized rightnow, , scanning enemies in the future can materialize special attacks or weapons when using the sigils if you at least were to make scanning more interesting players woulnt just rush past teh bodies and stealth would be more interesting however there is problems with the robotics which already can scan and might make this less interesting in balance, with a chance to do it without the mod or items it could workout for everyone, dogs dont have great diversity kit-kubrows compared to the packs of dogs which appear usually just grapple and cant scan or use weapons, but i gooten one electrical colar on my dog k-1 and since they always use their mods slots for opening and fetching items eventually you might wanna give them extra skill sor attacks, magic and armor which serves to reward them with benefits from performing the digging, or collecting items, no dog i seen has wielded an enemy bayonnet or kudgel, gun, or magic to melee, unlike the kavats that have like 10,00 backs of cards, kubrow should receive a reworked mod, and shield overlays, 
Edited by SnakeBadger
its good to notice dismount attacks, and aerial uses of energy and bullet speed triggers which might be great for melee slam attacks per planet or weather type adding its own effects and features on AOE, and movement enhancing reload, otherwisedetrimental

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can melee mode be switched to a different button? I use my mouse wheel for that and because of such, I cannot go into melee mode.

 

I'm also not a fan of the new melee mode. 

Why I'm not a fan? I spent crap-loads of hours working on my weapons, Crap-loads of resources on forma/rivens. My favourite melee weapon has lost around 30% of it's range and the new crit multiplication system has reduced my weapon's damage output significantly. Before I could start throwing out red-crits within two to four hits, now, I have to hand out 180+ hits to start seeing red crits. It's not fun or pleasant to look at something you've put a lot of time and effort into honing to be the most optimised weapon possible suddenly get torn to shred because of an update.

To add to this, I'm still pissed at DE's attitude about nerfing Catchmoon. I don't use it. I prefer the Tombfinger to be honest but the way they decided to bring in Pablo and his crap spiel was akin to telling the player to shut up and accept their nerf because he was "a cute child" once. Firstly, if fifty percent of people are using the gun because it's the best gun to use, that doesn't excuse them to nerf it into the ground. They'd be better off buffing other secondaries or making them worth the effort to use. This isn't a PVP game. It's a PVE game. When people whinge and moan about how they shouldn't mind their favourite weapons getting nerfed into the ground, they're essentially pissing on those that liked those weapons. I don't moan at you for enjoying your favourite weapons or even care if they're OP or not.

DE are messing up here. I've been asking every cell I've played with tonight what they're thinking and I've had exactly eight against forty-eight people (Yes, I did count) who liked and disliked the new system respectively. This is a big change to way WF plays and it's a massive change to the melee aspect which is a core component of the game.If DE are serious about producing a game the fans enjoy, okay, have the update available but within a month of the update, they should put out a message to the players and ask if they want to keep the old melee system or if they want to keep the new one.

To the people who think this is good, I don't care. If you disagree with me, I doubly don't care.You're welcome to enjoy the new system and I won't begrudge you enjoying it but just because you're enjoying it, doesn't mean those that don't enjoy it should shut up or not voice their disappointment.

Edited by ChaosMarine
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, ChaosMarine said:

Catchmoon. I don't use it. I prefer the Tombfinger

havent tried catchmoon to hav' a foundry update or two on kitparts, but i got the tombfinger in some dumb missions where we had to stop me from going crazy about my new chroma, i dont know how to use it well, so i used the gun, it shoots popcorn with really nice fire effects and soudns, but it has no original fire rates to call up with punchthrough or reload functions, it was my first kitgun so it sucks

a few additional tricks on reload mods might make it more  awesome to use again, shoot one handed to build energy then throw out a vertical shield, but i think that maybe more should be done with kit-guns secondary function containing AOE and items which have cooldowns or at least least have a tripplebite, multishoot attack in some cases, auto-burst on the standing runic or sigil, so players have to decide when to shoot standing, moving or zoomed, versus the guns slide and reload modes from the safer distances without using elbows.

slidding should trigger effects like gaus'redline overcharging a radial burst and spinning to stun but can be costly overheating some kitguns, while a few attacks with charge up could power up the amps or strip enemies i can go over their heads with cards and grant the guns a few collectables to refresh them overall there is no charged mode or special attack for the tombfinger, especially if the player is crawling on the floor, or has no energy for a quick gimmick on the melee marked for death to have been reduced for a melee attack to be effective or something special. idk. maybe jumping upwards leaving a detonator lol like street fighter EX2, that guy could really fight well with whips and detonation mines, but lacked guard.

also [AK-Lato] could have various modifications based on syndicate or tribe symbols where forma usually goes on the slots to give new features which add charged shots and volatile visuals on the guns when they are fired repeadedly for elemental mods, and combined effects to be effective there shoudl at lest be some smoke which dissapears with slidding and rapid movement or pickups to modify the realod features to allow these guns to be primary or secondary toys.

each planet maybe could feature a set of comets and moons or elementalist attacks which can be added passive with the sigil or conquest mission on arrival they are attributed to kills and or the effects of the energy and pickups in each area with randomized stats and augments which last temporarily or the gun's features are locked, something i like to add is other sounds which are not just pop, and other types of mods and charged attacks , so they are not  going to be click click on empty and missfiring, but serving to call up magic and other tricks!!!

the guns pop-popX3 sound is never interesting at rank30 without mods, even on critical hit there should be many changes made to make the first weapons the player gets more interesting without complications!! new sound effects and mods aquired through leveling a few new attacks for sliding and passive effects on rolling and pickup aquisition, close range players who do not use melee, or magic lack secondary actions and fire rate without speed mods or rivens, so they have to resort to spamming abilities.

or they automatically win if they use a rapid fire controller with speed cards. player without will suffer through bullet hell with no merits, and end up crying tired, its really good realistically but there should be some other derivitives so bullet latch and watever makes more ninja and batman tricks come from the lato with ranks and energy abundant for slide and punch, which could have a melee overshield and some tricks so they are demmed equipable weapons in all levels of respect, magic for those who push and for those who auto-controller is allowed-through ,

last thing about the AK-lato is that there is no special attacks or passive traits when spining or sliding, i hope these suggestions can be used with the new charged attacks and old meter channeling system on secondary weapons or in combination with a new finisher for close range devil may cry style and crit, or at least some of them, but i really look foward to a way to hit with the weapon if held onto after shooting to block or snapback with a follow up barrage of bursting bullets or fire mode change which over heats the lato into a trickstyle or energy shooter like the tombfinger but you know. 

Edited by SnakeBadger
enemies who charge at players without guns should have scarier or more belivable features and rewards, the players fighting infested should be covered in guts and blood, and deluge statuses, cleansers and melee helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'll summarise the melee rework.

Positives: Stances are smoother, cool lifted enemies here and then. Combos easier to get

Negatives: Combo multipliers no longer boost regular attacks. Sacrifices your entire combo count for a single heavy attack. Blood rush nerfed and nerfed again by said combo count sacrifice. Life strike completely ruined due to only having life steal on heavy attacks which are slow and you lose all combo count. Condition overload nerfed with it's new calculation.

In conclusion: RIP Umbra

This rework is just a massive melee nerf disguised as a rework. If you really want to make things harder; please just increase the enemy stats instead of reworking our melee to unusable point. You can even just straight up nerf our melee stats. That is way better than having the melee system broken.

Edit: full damage blocking is nice too. But not good enough to replace life strike

Edited by Ender140
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have some questions about this Melee rework phase: Why the heavy attacks are in the alt fire button? the "Hold E" command work just fine and we are used to it.

Also, melee mode just to be able to do heavy attacks and manual blocking is not intuitive and neither dinamic.

A option (even in the gameplay options menu)to let heavy attacks on "Hold E" and block with a "Hold F" command seems dinamic and easier to use.

Edited by Kadesfy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-11-05 at 4:07 PM, blackovercoat said:

How do i explode my Glaive in Phase 2 ?

You press the same button again. Middle mouse button for melee mode, attack button for dual wielding.

On 2019-11-05 at 11:27 PM, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

This update destroyed this since the dual wield doesn't allows us to detonate the Glaive. Instead we need to get into full melee stance, and lose the dual wield in the process.

No, you can still do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

You press the same button again. Middle mouse button for melee mode, attack button for dual wielding.

No, you can still do that.

I tried again yesterday.

Indeed the Glaive still blow up with pressing E again... around 1 time out of 5. The rest of the time it just flies back into my hand.

Either I got something wrong or its bugged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to add my 2cents. 

I have a feeling that Stuff stance animations should've been for Polearms. Anyway Stuff animations are bad, + there're even some strikes missing hitboxes, so there's no point of using Lesion for example or Stuff based zaws. 

Same thoughts about Whip stances, bad, uninteresting, unprofitable, no satisfaction + strong feeling that it was nerfed for some reason except for atterax in terms of stats but anyway no point of having good time using it bcoz of stances. On the other hand Blade and Whip stance is good, would like to see rework of just whip stances.
Overall I like new melee combo system, but I think some weapons that previously was strong are now thrown into trash, like why doing so if people just gonna use those that now have better stats and stances, you'll gonna get same situation like before phase 2, I think better solution would be to try to keep overall base stats like cc and sc identical so people could've really choose what weapon they what to use, for example I'd like to use infested weapons for like Nidus and Saryn so they would've been in same style, and other frames like in tech style weapons etc. But atm the only infested melee weapon that i'll use is Mios simply bcos of it's looks, stance and it can kill. Same goes for primary infested weapons (though it's a wrong thread but still) the only good thing about em atm is their look. I'd like to see them to be reworked. 

Now about mods, ok Maiming strike into the trashcan since no buttrolling no more (though i think i bought it for like 200pl?) but ok i can live without it bcos of overall phase 2 has a potential, then next, why do we need PrimePP (40grand of endo) now? 
Last words would be about the very strong feeling that your in game statistics of most useable weapons are leading to wrong decisions that come out in that players are just passing on from weapon to weapon in order to find profit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion
heavy attacks are not worth and "entertaining" enough to be used. what I mean is, that in this game, even if you encounter really highly armored target and you are running solo melee-ing enemies, you always lose if you burn your combo counter on that one target when you can kill him with normal melees *most of the time* sooner. another issue is every weapon type having the same heavy attack, but that's just how I feel like about melees because we have established melee stances and the reason why they vary. there is a huge opportunity to make stances more personalized and unique > hence > I really think "Dynasty Warriors" mechanics of the huge, areal heavy attacks with cooler effect (and in terms of WF: follow up range) would not only benefit game, but you'd see so many people actively using it because it would be worth it. Killing off one enemy with slow heavy attack is a nice idea if that implies execution/guaranteed bonus, but IMO using heavy attacks for large chunk of enemies and using light attacks for single targets is better. (also this is very specific thing that I can think of : balancing heavy attack damage, making it areal and independent from stance to stance, making animations fluid and powerful with different effects and elemental bonuses, restricting heavy attacks to certain combo counter requirement to use them)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-18 at 12:40 PM, Loza03 said:

Simple: You aren't supposed to.

DE have very clearly never designed around above level 100 enemies. Arguably they've not even designed to level 100, but that's another matter.

Just play Octavia, it’s that simple. Her mallet has infinite scaling at a good rate and will kill enemies just the same regardless of level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...