Nerfs Would Be Fine - Except

[(PSN)Limorkil]

I understand why the Catchmoon is being nerfed.  But try and look at it from an average, non-hardcore, player perspective.  
 

Every YouTuber - Get the Catchmoon.  Everyone in game - Get the Catchmoon.  
 

Me - spends weeks getting the Catchmoon. 
Me - spends weeks leveling up the Catchmoon (3x)

Me - spends 3 forma, an Orokin catalyst and an Eidolon Lens on the Catchmoon.  
 

Finally, I have a sidearm that i can use on harder content.  
 

DE - We’re nerfing the Catchmoon.   Only hardcore players can have nice things.  Now you have it, we take it away.  
 

So the time invested is somewhat demoralizing.  The Catchmoon is relatively hard to acquire compared to other guns after all.  
 

But what kills me is the forma, lens, catalyst.   Can we at least have the ability to scrap an item and get all the stuff back?   That’s expensive stuff to me.   
 

Even if you could only scrap one time per 50 login days - that would’ve enough.  
 

Yeah, yeah - to you guys it’s easy come easy go, you have so many potatoes you don’t know what to do with them. But not everyone is like you.   This was an expensive investment for me.   
 

(and if it were nerfed a little it wouldn’t matter, but nerfs always seem to be into the ground.   )

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Correction,

The Catchmoon riven got a slight nerf. The riven, the mod not needed on your weapon foe it to be good. The weapon itself is still great.

Edited October 26, 2019 by (XB1)Shodian

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

Refunding the resources put in might not be a bad idea.

Maybe with nerfs like this the gun could be put into a test phase where you can try out the new stats with all your current forma, catalysts, etc., but you have a one time option of keeping the gun as is or refunding all resources put into it. 
 

 

[Voltage]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Correction,

The Catchmoon riven got a slight nerf. The riven, the mod not needed on your weapon foe it to be good. The weapon itself is still great.

In the mainline the Catchmoon itself is taking a huge nerf. Who would have guessed an AoE with no self damage and high base damage would be effective? It's not like we had Tonkor or anything.

I don't use Catchmoon, and I never really have a reason to. However, this is another example of DE looking at stuff way too late after many players invested into it. Chroma calculations, Maiming Strike, Condition Overload, Blood Rush could all have been balanced before they even released. Leaving these outliers in the game for years is unhealthy and fixing them years later burns a lot of players.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Voltage

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

For the reasons you listed yes nerfs sucks. Too bad that De can’t get their stuff right the first time 

[Gurpgork]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

The Catchmoon riven got a slight nerf.

The gun itself is getting much more severe damage falloff, so it's not just the riven. 

For good reason, too. Higher MR players are using it as much as every other secondary in the game combined. 

[GinKenshin]

Just now, (XB1)Shodian said:

Correction,

The Catchmoon riven got a slight nerf. The riven, the mod not needed on your weapon foe it to be good. The weapon itself is still great.

umm, I think you need to check the updates to the update....

Also, everything in this game is subject to change. People have lost way way more in previous changes and reworks, the Tonkor comes to mind. It's all part of the game. Those resources are hardly limited and easy to come by 

Also, wtf does it take weeks to get and level up a weapon? Kitguns are very easy to come by. The standing is easy to get, and the resources aren't that rare

I think the listen here is don't listen to what other people have to say. Taking advice is fine and all, but at the end of the day it's your game and you play it how you like. CM is hardly the only 'god' weapon in the game that you must use for high level content 

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Correction,

The Catchmoon riven got a slight nerf. The riven, the mod not needed on your weapon foe it to be good. The weapon itself is still great.

We don’t know this yet because no one has used the new, shorter range, Catchmoon.

Likelihood is that some will be able to compensate for the range decrease and others will move on to a new gun.

We won’t know till it’s released.

[YazMatazO]

Whoever started the whole ''It's PvE, balance is irrelevant in the game'' deserves a lashing. 

Well... maybe not a lashing, but you get all the mess later on. 

[LSG501]

The issue wouldn't be so bad if we could actually remove our focus lenses... something many have been asking for for a LONG time...

In all honesty though, this nerf shows a bigger issue...  that there was literally only one 'good' weapon for high level content in the eyes of high mr players. 

So DE's solution is rather than bring the other weapons up to similar levels so we might actually use something else they take the lazy approach and nerf the 'good' weapon/frame etc like usual which then in turn makes many of the community salty because we've wasted resources, time, effort and in some cases plat for a riven (I didn't) on a weapon that is now probably going to be nerfed too far if the past is anything to go by.

[Firetempest]

When you're a year late for the easy train. 

Now you have a very powerful close range eraser. Flight speed will be a exilus mod I believe. You just have to put a bit more into "the perfect weapon".

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

4 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Chroma calculations, Maiming Strike, Condition Overload, Blood Rush could all have been balanced before they even released.

Expecting a balance pass sooner than we got them in these cases is very reasonable, but expecting perfect balance before release is unreasonable.

All games use their player base as part of the test phase. 

[(XBOX)Shodian]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

Wow you're really slow, watch the last prime time  

The actual weapon gets a nerf, and I can guarantee you it won't be the last, until no one will ever use the weapon ever again, then it'll take actual years before they come back and make it a proper weapon again.

Ah yes, I just saw the post about it. It looks like it's just going to be more of a short range weapon now. Just gotta get up and personal now.

[Voltage]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Expecting a balance pass sooner than we got them in these cases is very reasonable, but expecting perfect balance before release is unreasonable.

All games use their player base as part of the test phase. 

Repeating mistakes when it comes to content releases is unreasonable as well. Shield Disruption working on the Orb Mother on release when it was fixed for Eidolons after Plains of Eidolon, Trinity Nuke getting 100% in air damage resistance and Aerodynamic being nerfed after release. It's a little to frequent that common things aren't checked.

It's really easy to do basic DPS calculations on weapons. DE could have plugged Catchmoon stats into WFBuilder and then went "hmmm, this looks pretty busted". I am not talking about full fledged reworks. Those take alot of time. Stats and formulas however are not exactly hard to change. It took years for Wyrm Prime to get more eHP.....

Edited October 26, 2019 by Voltage

[SussySnek]

[Yakhul]

Is pretty much gonna be come a more powerful version of the Bronco Prime. People will still use it, just not as often as before. Then again, i've seen that we players tend to use the next most powerful thing once the meta gets nerfed. It wont be long before DE nerfs also the Tombfinger

[kyori]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

This was an expensive investment for me.

They don't care about that it seems(?) Now you see the real face behind the smiling faces? Even the video that tells about the nerf has smiling face in it. lol

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

14 minutes ago, Voltage said:

It's really easy to do basic DPS calculations on weapons. DE could have plugged Catchmoon stats into WFBuilder and then went "hmmm, this looks pretty busted". I am not talking about full fledged reworks. Those take alot of time. Stats and formulas however are not exactly hard to change. 

I’ve said this before and I’m saying it again: If it’s so easy for you to predict weapon balance in a game that you could perfectly balance it before it hits the players, please get into game dev. I’m sure many video game companies would offer a really good salary for that kind of expertise.

 

[Annnoth]

35 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

The issue wouldn't be so bad if we could actually remove our focus lenses... something many have been asking for for a LONG time...

In all honesty though, this nerf shows a bigger issue...  that there was literally only one 'good' weapon for high level content in the eyes of high mr players. 

So DE's solution is rather than bring the other weapons up to similar levels so we might actually use something else they take the lazy approach and nerf the 'good' weapon/frame etc like usual which then in turn makes many of the community salty because we've wasted resources, time, effort and in some cases plat for a riven (I didn't) on a weapon that is now probably going to be nerfed too far if the past is anything to go by.

I don't agree with that at all, the entire problem with the catch moon was that it was so good there was barely a reason to use anything else. It's not that literally every other secondary was bad because that's so far from the case, it's that catch moon offered EVERYTHING you wanted in this game with almost no inherent downside whatsoever. The closest thing you had to a downside isn't unique to the weapon, the falloff, as every shotgun in the game has that too and has it worse due to spread while also not being catch moon.

Life was moving just fine without catchmoon, people used secondaries and loved them. Nothing changed, people just got so used to the sheer usefulness of catchmoon and for good reason.  I usually never care about really meta weapons because I often find them a bit bland for being too generally good but even I use catchmoon at times because what it offered while still letting me use my favorite primaries was just too good with 0 thought put into using it.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Annnoth

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

12 minutes ago, TheBestNapkin said:

Is pretty much gonna be come a more powerful version of the Bronco Prime. People will still use it, just not as often as before. Then again, i've seen that we players tend to use the next most powerful thing once the meta gets nerfed. It wont be long before DE nerfs also the Tombfinger

Maybe not. Tombfinger doesn’t really crowd control like the Catchmoon. It’s more of a hand cannon with projectile flightspeed.

[JackHargreav]

I will be really happy once they nerf that piece of crap.

Oh the many players who will be crying. It's gonna be a beautiful day.

[LSG501]

14 minutes ago, Annnoth said:

I don't agree with that at all, the entire problem with the catch moon was that it was so good there was barely a reason to use anything else. It's not that literally every other secondary was bad because that's so far from the case, it's that catch moon offered EVERYTHING you wanted in this game with almost no inherent downside whatsoever. The closest thing you had to a downside isn't unique to the weapon, the falloff, as every shotgun in the game has that too and has it worse due to spread while also not being catch moon.

Life was moving just fine without catchmoon, people used secondaries and loved them. Nothing changed, people just got so used to the sheer usefulness of catchmoon and for good reason.  I usually never care about really meta weapons because I often find them a bit bland for being too generally good but even I use catchmoon at times because what it offered while still letting me use my favorite primaries was just to absurdly good with 0 thought put into using it.

Um... think you'll find you're actually supporting what I said...

There are plenty of other secondary weapons out there that are worth using but they're just not as 'good' as the catchmoon at higher levels, if they could kill enemies as fast they'd be used... it really is as simple as that, the catchmoon is just good at (high level) killing stuff quickly.   

DE could have 'fixed' the issue by giving us other options by raising the performance of alternative weapons of different types (I prefer rapid fire 'rifle' type secondary) but nope DE just nerfs the weapons that every one is using.... 

As a side note it's another thing they're doing that ties into the way melee is likely going to do less damage overall (changes to CO and BR) and as a result removes the need for DE to focus on 'endgame' content because we'll hit our damage cap earlier.

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by LSG501

[(PSN)Double991]

One thing I will note is when you look at the usage statistics that DE used to justify the nerf, that over 50% usage was ONLY among MR27s. The lower MRs due to their lack of resources had much lower usage rates on the Catchmoon. So nerfing it based on MR27 usage hurts everyone below that has normal usage rates.

[Peter]

WTB your expensive G0DL1K3 riven for 3p.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Your resource waste doesn't trump an improved game balance. Maybe DE should put that in their new player tutorial. I have frames I used for years and formaed more than ten times, so I demand those to not be nerfed ever because me, me, me. What's next? You're going to complain when eventually DE "accidentally" releases a new weapon that completely outshines your catchmoon a year from now?

The only thing you can reasonably fault DE for is that they don't nerf new, overpowered gear quickly enough. As you might imagine, though, releasing something super powerful will make them a lot more money from people who buy and spend plat getting it than nerfing it at the height of its popularity. This is a fault of the devs, or whoever is in charge of monetization in the game. Direct your criticism towards them, not the fact that you were lured into a trap that never was one.