(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[kazeyama]

The core gameplay loop of kuva lich is fine but the time to reward ratio and reliance on RNG is definitely not. Kuva lich was designed to be an infinitely repeatable mechanic to keep player engagement but after killing just one of them I already feel burnt out. I would suggest decreasing grind to increase the speed at which you can kill a lich or simply implement mechanics to where you can control the rng.

Right now AFAIK only the warframe you use to kill the larva has any impact on the random lich that spawns. The weapon and stats are all random so if you want a specific weapon such as one of the new unique weapons that have no generic counterpart you are stuck grinding endlessly until you get what you want. Then you have to kill an obscene number of thralls to know which mods you will need and this is also not rewarding since the lich is stealing all your stuff. Sure you get it back in the end but just from a psychological standpoint having a relic or rare mod stolen doesn't really make you want to keep playing. 

Then you have to farm for relics and mods. Again you first have a 30% chance of a relic outside of kuva flood of which there is only one at a time. Then you have a 1/4 chance of getting the relic you need for the proper mod. Then you must refine the relic and run the mission where you need the proper mod to drop. If you don't get the right mod you have to repeat this whole process. Sure mods are good for 3 lich so they have some lasting value but again making the system so initially daunting to kill the first lich is a big deterrent for players to even engage in this system. 

Lastly is the trial and error stage which is again just a waste of time where you have to find a mission for lich to spawn and hope you got the right mod order. This is completely random and seems to serve no real purpose other than just add another artificial barrier before completion. Not to mention the lich levels up with each failed attempt so effectively your failure results in an increased difficultly which again doesn't make much sense. I would rather start with a level 5 lich if I could just know the order ahead of time from killing the thralls just to save time. 

For such a large investment of time and resources you should be able to somehow have more control over your personal lich in terms of what weapon and stats they will provide or simply decrease the time investment immensely. The number of thralls needed should be drastically reduced and the drop rate of relics should be increased. There should also possibly be a way to target the relic or mod that you need rather than relying on luck for everything. Having grind or rng at one point of the system might be acceptable but having it permeate the entire thing from start to finish is just tiresome and not engaging. At the end the only reward you get is either a weapon for which you may have no use or a lich companion who you might not even like the look of. Some ability to actually custom tailor the lich or change its appearance or weapon type as you progress through the stages would be a big improvement. 

[Captain_Killy]

After playing quite a bit today (I've killed one Lich and converted another, FWIW) here are a few hopefully pretty easy-to-implement suggestions:

- Killing a Lich desperately needs to be rewarding above and beyond the Kuva weapon. My first two Liches both gave Kuva Krakens, and the entire process of getting murmurs, figuring out requiems and so on became about getting the damn thing out of the way so another one with a better reward could take its place. I was motivated to do it this one time (for some reason), but I really doubt I will be if it happens again. I seriously think they should give a guaranteed reward on the level of the better Sortie stuff - so a random drop from a pool containing 10k-ish Kuva, a random Riven, maybe a bunch of Vitus, boosters, forma. If this system is actually going to work long-term, it needs to be desirable to kill a Lich for more than a weapon that'll get more and more likely to be a duplicate, innately just not very good, or a tiny, marginal, unexciting improvement over one you've already dropped multiple formas into.

- The theft system just doesn't work as motivation for players with any kind of stock of materials. I couldn't care less that Flurb Grrblugh the Lich took a trivial amount of credits and salvage, or some useless mod or whatever. I'm not remotely excited to get any of that stuff back when the Lich dies. So again, you really need a reason to engage with this content for those times when the weapon isn't much motivation, for one reason or another, because those times are only going to become more frequent.

- More murmur progress per thrall. Everyone's saying it, I know, but it really is way too slow. Also oh my god, please, please auto-complete any requiems we find by chance: painfully, laboriously finishing a murmur only to get one you already lucked into is soul-crushing.

- Reward for completely kicking the Lich off of a planet. Again, stopping theft for those nodes is not a motivation, because I'm not gonna care about 99% of the junk the Lich steals. So where's the reason to kind of play up to the fantasy of us chasing the Lich out of a whole region? This is the perfect place to put an actual generous amount of murmur completion, surely? Like completely removing the Lich from a planet completes an entire murmur, or literally doubles all murmur progress after that, or something. Anything. Please?

I really think there's potential here, but right now I'm kind of dreading the point where I just can't be bothered to actively hunt them any more, and every Grineer mission I run risks spawning a Lich who'll eventually squat on every planet in the system and maybe steal the 1% of mission rewards (rivens, relics) I do care about, forcing me to go through the whole murmur, relic, requiem grind for no reason other than getting back something I would have already had before this update, you know?

Edited November 2, 2019 by Captain_Killy

[Br0k3nBl4de]

here some feedback from what so have happened and it's true.

My same weapon what i got has now heat because it was born with wisp...
my first was with atlas and is now trash because it's not the max Toxin what i could have got...
 

feel free to explain this bull    S h i t    -__-

Edited November 2, 2019 by Br0k3nBl4de

[Bratty_Child]

I'm not sure if Requime Murmur is intentionally made to be so slow to prevent players burning through the liches grind, but its currently too long to finish a lich and I hope it gets adressed later when you think its alright for more people to have the new weapons.

[Ikusias]

Following all the reviews, comments and playtrough relating to kuva liches had only one result: I'm not interested at all in dealing with the entire rushjob that was put out for PC to beta test.

Kuva leeches per se have quite the nice characterization, interesting lines etc. but lack any sort of involvement, the only occasion in which we meet them is when we empower them as larvlings and when we attempt to Parazon-kill them, stop

I'd apreciate if we had to face them multiple times as part of deciphering their "kill code", without the extremely stupid counterfatality if we don't pick the right combination after kicking their ass trough the entire map: they are immortal? let them flee like cowards if even one of the equipped mods is right and we actually damage them!

The entire murmur system feels like busyjob, not an actual task but a massive, disincetivizing and non engaging time waster.

We have capture missions, sabotages, spy missions: use those to find and extort informations about our enemy!

TL:DR I'm demoralized even from posting further feedback

[yKaianRope]

Parazon Mod

 

Auto Breach should be faster. Like there is the Y to use the chiper to hack. You can press X & Y and it will hack almost instantly. So in my opinion this mod is only good at Sortie missions that you can not use chipers!

[-IO-Ferociumkraft]

7 hours ago, mauromw said:

I have an opinion about vauban. I tested it on some missions, and in comparison with ember i noticed some things:

Ember is more tanky

Ember has more power efficiency -the action power/effect, she has a better perfomance-

Ember has more power and better crowd control perfomance because has less casting time.

 

So if i want to make a Vauban team, easily ill pick a hildryn and an ember and i have a bastille with hildryn and a better orbital strike with inferno. 

 

The point of that? Vauban need an adjustment because:

Have a low efficiency with bastille because only can hold a capped number of enemies. Hildryn has no limit and when enemies dies on the area, spawns an energy orb. 

Have a really low defense, cannot focus a tactical warframe on defense because u will loss slots. 

Have really low animations for being a wf that requires movement, and all animations are slow. 

 

What i think can solve it?

 

The Tesla skill is good, and works very well, it seems doesnt needs to be changed.

 

The Vector pad of minelayer doesnt have an useful purpose, can be removed to make tether coil stick 3 enemies instead of 2. Seems stupid for only 1 unit, but casting 2 thethers increases the cc from 4 enemies to 6, and with 3, from 9 to 12. It needs some ragdoll corrections, and sometimes sticks on dead bodies.

 

Photon strike is most powerful skill on vauban, does a lot of dmg, even without mods -i tested it on the grendel missions- so? is too powerful for being a 3rd skill, and the  4th is not enough powerful in comparison

Bastille/Vortex is a good combo, but moding for it exposes vauban to be more squishy, even with the armor buff. Needs duration, range, and strenght, have an high casting time, the enemies suspended is capped -the cap is fair in my opinion anyway, but for a 3rd skill- . It has the bug too that sometimes dont suspends enemies.  What i think can be done to balance this is:

 

1) Put vortex on combination with photon strike, so u cast a vortex and at end of duration, it will do the photon strike. If its moved to the 4th position or 3rd depends on whether the bastille stills having a cap of enemies, or if photon strikes seems nerfed the damage. 

or

2) At end of duration, vortex spawns an energy orb -having this passive have more sense on a tech themed warframe than on ember´s 4rd skill augment- 

 

Finally: vaubans new passive is good, but the castings time make it difficult to take advantage of that. Vaubans need a passive that can compensate his constant needing of casting bastille to keep it safe on enemies lvl 75+ with more energy or efficiency, or duration; or being more tanky. 

Maybe can spawn energy orbs on X situations, Maybe can get an armor buff on X situations. But surely dont needs a damage buff with his Overdriver skill

 

Thx for reading my opinion, have a nice day. 

 

 

Respect to this i guess is not needed all that modifications. Can be solved simply giving vauban more time on his armor buff with the bastille, base plus 5 secs. The energy drop orb stills being a good option for mitigate the needing of constant casting bastille, and more casting speed for all skills. 

Edited November 2, 2019 by mauromw
Missed phrase

[Jcyrano]

ok, hopefully someone reads this.
I don't know if this works as Feedback... But I love the Poem they have choose for the Requiem Mods...

[Julienn]

DE, please, PLEASE remove the randomness of the Kuva weapons elemental damage.  Or at least implement a way to upgrade that damage % value to the cap.

MAKING WEAPONS HAVE RANDOM STATS IS A CRAZY BAD IDEA!!

This alone made me put this whole Lich update on hold.   I simply do no want to participate in it anymore.   The randomness and the INSANE amount of grind just to get to kill ONE Lich is already off putting enough, and then I find out that for the extremely low chance of getting the weapon I want, it can come with a low RANDOM damage AND random element?

Why in the world would I want to spend 6 formas and now a new utility slot unlock AND forma on a weapon that I might get a better version later on?  Do you want to see us cry in frustration? Where is the fun? Why would anyone want to do this?

I am so sad. I love your game and never had I had an update that made me NOT want to play it.  No other weapon in the game has random stats.  This is entirely NEW.  Rivens are already controversial enough and Rivens are mods, its just a mod, but randomness on the WEAPON? The weapon that you spend lots and lots of time upgrading to your liking to then see the SAME weapon with a better base stat.  I hope I don't have to explain in more detail how randomness on weapons is a CRAZY BAD IDEA.    

Warframe's weapons are unique. You build it, you keep it, you upgrade it, you mod it, you change it, you love it.  You can spend all sorts of time on the one weapon with the confidence that it is unique. Not anymore.

Guys, this is not Borderlands.  Please fix.

[--Q--Resistance]

Hi, i'm going to keep it simple and compact

firstly, the kuva lich system is a grind on top of rng on top of rng and on top of rng, the the farm is just to tedious

secondly, maybe you can change the weapon too being tradable by players but only if its ranked 0, cause some people really lack the time for the humongous time to farm all 12 kuva variant weapon. and this way you can help dedicated farming player/new player too get platinums in return.

lastly, this update is a fresh start in warframe in general but you might want to change some things on the kuva lich side as im not the only one here with the same opinion about the kuva lich farm.

 

Sincerely, your Veteran.

[Silverton]

I'm 3 hours into farming for murmur and this is honestly the most boring thing I have ever done in this game. Three hours and I am 1/3 the way through the second one. It is so much fun as a MR 27 player to play 10 capture missions on useless nodes, to get a tiny bit closer to a murmur unlocked. Cool the liches steal some of the drops from me. Wow I lost 45 credits out of 4500. I am just so bored of this already.

[Diseenith]

I'm enjoying the kuva lich, but there is one big issue I have is... you have no reason to fight them.

When the kuva lich spawns, if you haven't farmed the mods / murmurs you know you'll lose. The answer is to let them kill you, revive, and get on with the mission. Even if you beat them you still auto-lose, regardless of situation. There should be some reason to try and survive the attack, not just lay down and die.

[Univarous]

I realize the new content should be a bit of a grind so veterans don't run through it in hours/days. I do think however, the murmer gathering time is a bit too much of a grind. Just my opinion.

[Midas]

Just got my first Kuva Lich!

Would like to suggest Kuva liches can help you farm more Kuva Liches and/or gather resources for you. The time and effort to get at least one lich converted was a good 6 hours...

Edited November 2, 2019 by Midas

[DeathStalker1337]

Kuva Ogris has a few major bugs, which is disappointing because it was my most looked forward to kuva weapons.  One of the most glaring bugs is its inability to proc status most of the time.  Even with 47% status, and built to 100% status, it still only procs statuses once every few shots.  The math doesn’t seem to be adding up.  Another issue is that Nightwatch Napalm, the Ogris exclusive mod, is equippable but not useable on Kuva Ogris.  You can equip it in a build, but your rockets will not leave behind any fire aoe’s.  These are just two of the most glaring issues, and I won’t even get into the reload bugging out half the time so you have an invisible arm reloading the gun.  Please fix ASAP ;-;

[Ikusias]

Parazon so far feels utterly useless

[MetalicSharpShooter]

60 thralls to get one mod revealed is kinda ridiculous. I would maybe do 1/2 or even or 1/4 of the requirement, it still requires some time investment, but it won't take you forever.

[AreeSoothsayer]

The Lich has you, lifting you over his head, holding you there a moment, then bringing you down onto his knee.

You do nothing.

I personally would kick, struggle, flail my arms, slash with  that Parazon. Stalling the toss, perhaps wounding him/her with the Parazon. Not fatally but enough that he retreats temporarily. He does not level, you do not die. How? Keys. Keys or Buttons will flash on the screen, you tag each key or button fast enough before he breaks your spine to struggle free. Your current health will matter. 1% health? You're a goner. 100% health, you only need a 2-3 key presses to get free. The lower your health, the more keys you need to hit to struggle free and drive him off.

[DarkQuill]

3 hours ago, Captain_Killy said:

Also oh my god, please, please auto-complete any requiems we find by chance: painfully, laboriously finishing a murmur only to get one you already lucked into is soul-crushing.

This please. I had my first encounter with my Lich and by chance the one and only Requiem mod I have was the first one in the sequence. I'm also at less than half of a single completed Known Requiem. If I have to do all that grinding to unlock something I already know.. oof. That's a lot of grinding for zero payoff.

Murmur requirement needs to be lower, as requested by almost everyone. Also another request I see is removing the separation of normal missions and Controlled Territory missions. I understand that the CT missions give end-game players some content, but this also means you're not going to get drop-in co-op for Thrall missions. A really neat way to combine these two suggestions is to allow Thralls to appear in regular missions, but limiting Thralls to one per regular mission (per player) and having them give a huge chunk of Murmur progress. By changing Thralls to only be marked on the map when you get close, like a Kuva Siphon or Synthesis Target, this also encourages a bit of hunting outside the "clear the mission at breakneck speed" co-op playstyle.

Obviously it'd need to be balanced to have CT missions not be overshadowed by speedrunning regular ones, but I really REALLY think there needs to be a way to have less walls between the content, while still being able to deliver the "oh #&*!" feeling when your Lich shows up. Additionally, as much as I also like the idea of the Lich being a nemesis, I would HATE for it to show up in  co-op missions with newer players who haven't gotten to that part in the story. I started playing Warframe right before the first Nightwave and the amount of times the Wolf showed up and just completely wrecked me was insanely frustrating, and I'd imagine Liches showing up for new players would be just as annoying.

[Gentleman_Bird]

The process of finding the requiem weakness is a bit grindy and monotonous. While building up a player's personal enemy should take time to make it feel like it's more than just another Grineer minion, I'd like a bit more variety as to how we can progress with finding the Lich's requiem weakness. I have a few ideas to make the grind a bit more interesting:

 

-Display feedback on all three requiem mod slots on a kill attempt instead of just the leftmost slot

 

-Display feedback on whether we have a correct mod in the wrong order by displaying it as yellow on the kill attempt

 

- Give us more frequent but less impactful hints (i.e. There is no Fass Requiem mod in the solution, etc.)

         - Maybe minor hints can be gained from killing some sort of Thrall miniboss

 

-Give us murmurs by completing Kuva Lich node objectives

         - Also, it would be neat if the mission flavor text changed on kuva lich missions. For example, on spy missions you could be looking for data on the Lich's weakness, Capture could be going after a high ranking Thrall, Exterminate could be taking out the Lich's elite guard, etc.

 

- Give us rare mission nodes with a high concentration of Thralls, or powerful Thralls with large amounts of Murmurs

 

- Give some sort of completion bonus for clearing an entire planet of Lich influence (it could be a large amount of Murmurs, or a Requiem hint or something)

Edited November 2, 2019 by Gentleman_Bird

[Gentleman_Bird]

3 hours ago, Julienn said:

DE, please, PLEASE remove the randomness of the Kuva weapons elemental damage.  Or at least implement a way to upgrade that damage % value to the cap.

MAKING WEAPONS HAVE RANDOM STATS IS A CRAZY BAD IDEA!!

 

It's not actually random, the element depends on the warframe you used to kill the larvling.

[Nichivo]

I don't mind the melee nerfs. What I do mind is that melee is now clunky and less fun.  The way you enter full melee mode is clunky on a whole new level. Heavy attacks entirely break the flow of combat, and empty the combo counter. Take for instance the zenistar by the time you hit enough stuff to make the disk last long enough to be worth using, there will be nothing left to run into the disk(need to reposition your disk, drawing it back will also wipe out the combo counter).

I can't stop flashbacks of the movie Dark Angel("I come in Peace!") when I see the Parazon.

The Kuva Lich system is an RNG/ Gating nightmare on a Bioware/Anthem scale. RNG stats on a weapon gated by low drop, or extreme grind, do not work. Exactly how many Thralls does one mercy, to get even 1 Murmur? I got bored, and went to bed. Please realize this is coming from someone who did the Champion of Tarsis grind(proof linked below).

https://youtu.be/RQf83MGnwCs 

I love Warframe, it's why I have supported it for so long. Not everything in the mainline was bad, but the overall fun of the game has dropped drastically.

As a PC gamer keybindings and game flow mean a lot. If we wanted less control in our games, we would be playing on consoles. Cycling from weapon to weapon with one key is terrible. I would much rather be able to bind a separate key for each weapon. When actions are tied to keys that do not make sense, it makes the game clunky and less fun.

By the way shortly before going to bed, I got locked into the Parazon. Every time I tried to change weapons, I ended up standing there with the Parazon equipped.

 

 

[(PSN)Limorkil]

Feedback

For someone who completes The War Within at a low MR, not even finishing the star chart, the Kuva Lich is essentially a trap.  It’s easy to create a lich, but much harder to kill it or get requiem mods.  It can completely take over your star chart, disrupting missions and stealing resources, which at this point in the game are precious.  If it kills you then it can bump up your missions to absurdly high levels.  
 

I think long time players and DE forget what it is like to start this game from scratch.  You can get to War Within in a few hours - and whether you should or not is immaterial because we are talking about new players who do not know any better.  You can easily find a lich spawn at a point where you are seriously under equipped to take one on.  Right now, when the mechanic is new, we know what we are getting into, but once this is old news many players will blunder into it.   If they create a lich and not know the mechanics they can easily find their entire star chart full of level 50-100 missions, with the lich slowing their progress by taking their resources.  
 

If I was a new player I would quit or start over.  Others would be encouraged to spend plat on better equipment.  If this were anyone but DE I would denounce it as a cynical monetization scheme not unlike Shadows of War.   
 

The only solution I can think of is to gate the lich creation more.  Maybe you have to complete an arbitration first, or at least a sortie.  Alternatives, such as making it easier to “ignore” the lich would also work but may be more disruptive to more advanced players.  (Although, personally, I would be fine with the lich just taunting me from time to time and not the whole stealing/takeover mechanic. )

For myself, I am avoiding creating a lich because I doubt my ability to take one on - I struggle with Sedna missions.  With it being new I at least know to avoid it.  

[LordDoom01]

My only thoughts on the Kuva Liches is what will become of the Liches we convert? Will they just be an ever growing pile of friendly NPCs that randomly spawn in? Or will we be able to directly use them? Like say we just don't like our current enemy Lich, can we send out our friendly Lich to kill or get the proper parazon sequence of our foe (at the expense of the enemy Kuva Lich's weapon of course)?

I think this would help with frustrations over the grind involved. After all, players should want to defeat their lich for a reward. Not to clear out a spot for a better one.

Edited November 2, 2019 by LordDoom01

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Parazon : so far it ease the hacking process (with mods) and is par of the kuva Lich mini-game. But appart from that the "Mercy kills" are not a good game mechanics, you often kill the mobs before being able to use it, and appart from small bonus from mods it doesn't give any kind of specific bonus.

At the very least the windows to proc mercy kills on regular NPC should be wider, giving them a 1s invul to normal attack when mercy becomes available, and "blood for [...] " mods should not be 50% but 150% chance to drop health/energy, at least on "special" mobs such as eximus.

also you should be invulnerable when performing mercy kills

Edited November 2, 2019 by MonsterOfMyOwn