DE, the Lich System is bad and it needs to change.

[CuChulainnWD]

On 2019-11-10 at 11:10 AM, Steel_Rook said:

Let me tell you a story - trust me, it'll tie back to Warframe at the end.

 

Then DE wonders why their community good will is slowly eroding before their eyes. After the insulting lip service Workshop posted Monday by Bear, it really makes you wonder what the point is in providing 2 weeks worth of Fantastic feedback and suggestions to fix said problems. The idea of the Nemsis system is fantastic and has great potential, but someone at DE is insisting in adding flys to the ointment and holding things back.

I would suggest DE hold their Devstream THIS Friday, not next, and really shine some light on how they propose to fix, and COMPLETE the Lich system so it is both financially viable for them whilst still being entertaining for us, rather than dazzle us with a show about their future content. Enough already DE. Just this ONCE , DO SOMETHING RIGHT and SEE IT THROUGH to the end. Give us something we can enjoy, and you can be proud of. Enough of the radio silence. That week... might be a week too far.

Right now as of this minute, I could not care less about Railjack, or the Duvari Paradox, if they can not get their house in order to make things right with Melee 3.0 and the Nemesis system. They have had over 2 years in development for both projects. If they can not for ONCE make these work well, what faith should we have in them for making things right with Empyrion or Duvari?

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, CuChulainnWD said:

I would suggest DE hold their Devstream THIS Friday, not next, and really shine some light on how they propose to fix, and COMPLETE the Lich system so it is both financially viable for them whilst still being entertaining for us, rather than dazzle us with a show about their future content. Enough already DE. Just this ONCE , DO SOMETHING RIGHT and SEE IT THROUGH to the end. Give us something we can enjoy, and you can be proud of. Enough of the radio silence. That week... might be a week too far.

I think the reason why they're delaying until the 22nd is so that the issues we're currently faced with won't be so fresh in our minds when they get questioned on Twitch and such. I also think it's to give them time to spin doctor all this, throw in "quick fixes" and hopefully satiate players enough so that they don't have to do anything too drastic.

Right now, they're in damage control mode and I get the feeling they're only willing to do what they feel is absolutely necessary to keep things going for the time being.

That said, I think you're right. I get that [DE] Bear is just a proverbial messenger, but we're not being told enough. For instance, is their proposed solution to the duplicate Kuva weapons problem going to make sure that duped weapons NEVER show up...or just not show up on next Lich you decide to go after (but might still show up on future Liches).

It would be in DE's best interests (and ours) to seriously address and discuss this with us ASAP.

I get that DE wants us to grind and use their systems and that this is ultimately their game. However, if they want us to play their game and help fund its development, they're going to have to make concessions.

[BloodRavenCap]

Gonna post it here, so more people might notice

Really liked Steel_Rook's story. It really feels like the whole update was a last minute thing as to answer the release of Destiny 2 in Steam. They've been concentrating all their efforts on Empyrean, but when they realized they couldn't deliver it in time, they've decided to rip out the system from the update and make it work as a separate thing. 

It's really, really sad that DE, probably, won't do anything about the Lich system and won't listen to my suggestions. Those RNG layers are there for a reason. DE WANTS us to stay in the game as long as possible, but instead of making fun gameplay, they create time-gates after time-gates. Really disappointing to think that at this point they won't discard the bad systems this update has, but will just try to patch the broken boat that is leaking from so much places, that it won't be good even after thousand patches. The system was born broken. 

I was staying in the game for the New War, but right now I don't feel like even doing the same things I've been doing before. This update just broke me. Made me felt like there is no hope at all. And if they decide to delay the New War, I guess it's easier to uninstall and just check the update on YouTube when it drops. 

[DoomFruit]

6 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

I think the reason why they're delaying until the 22nd is so that the issues we're currently faced with won't be so fresh in our minds when they get questioned on Twitch and such. I also think it's to give them time to spin doctor all this, throw in "quick fixes" and hopefully satiate players enough so that they don't have to do anything too drastic.

Well, that's exactly what they did about the melee changes (keep ignoring the questions and problems raised). If it "worked" the first time, I see no reason why it won't "work" again.

[Erubian_Warlord]

On 2019-11-03 at 9:38 AM, Genitive said:

That's a great way to waste the development time and kill the new system entirely.

 

they wasted the development time on the system if nobody wants it as it is

if its no good improve it if you wont then kill it that is the message DE should be getting the

time is wasted until they make it worth dealing with

[Steel_Rook]

8 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

I think the reason why they're delaying until the 22nd is so that the issues we're currently faced with won't be so fresh in our minds when they get questioned on Twitch and such. I also think it's to give them time to spin doctor all this, throw in "quick fixes" and hopefully satiate players enough so that they don't have to do anything too drastic. Right now, they're in damage control mode and I get the feeling they're only willing to do what they feel is absolutely necessary to keep things going for the time being.

I honestly don't know how to feel any more. I want to give DE the benefit of a doubt, because they've introduced some MASSIVE improvements to the Kuva Lich system in a remarkably short time. They've acted on this far, FAR faster than I've seen then respond to issues in the year or two since I've been following this game. I know changes like these - merging weapons and such - aren't quick or easy to make. I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of people are working some serious overtime to do this, on top of whatever else they were already behind on before this system dropped in the first place. When a release drops on Thursday and you get new implementation on the next Tuesday, someone worked that weekend to make it happen. I want to feel solidarity with the poor overworked developers rushing to get something out before backlash spins out of control.

At the same time, this is far from the first time DE have pulled this stunt, though it's easily the worst I've seen. They have a bad habit to promise big, underdeliver and substitute the content they couldn't deliver with more grind. It's plain for all to see that the Kuva Lich system was slapped together last-minute, which is why it rings so hollow to even a casual observer. That alone wouldn't have been a BAD thing. I'm fine with unfinished systems being alternately released with an apology or delayed with an apology. Sure, I wouldn't have been happy to be told "Sorry, we screwed up. No new content until 2020." but I could have accepted it. Worse come to worst, I play something else for a few months, log back in every so often for Nightwave and come back when new content is release. But this? Releasing an unfinished system, claiming it's finished and backfilling it with the worst grind I've seen since Focus? That's not cool. That's pissing on my head and telling me it's raining. It's dishonest, and dishonesty stings harder and longer than mere disappointment.

Maybe I'm being overly critical. It's just my patience for grind in place of content is officially over. I'm done with the Skinner boxes, I'm done with the Pavlovian conditioning, I'm done with the "extrinsic" rewards. Release compelling content and maybe trust your playerbase to play for fun for a change. What absolutely infuriates me is about the Kuva Lich system is that there's a genuinely fun, engaging gameplay loop in there, buried under a mountain of unfun, unengaging grind. I've already suggested alternate ways to make the guessing game more fun, and that's just one way to approach it. The system itself has the potential to be really entertaining, but - as with so much in Warframe - is actively ruined by unbearable, ultimately unnecessary grind.

Someone said it best earlier - DE seem to live in constant panic that players might all of a sudden have too much fun, get bored and leave. That would explain why the game never lets us have any fun without spoiling it in some way, gating it behind unfun activities, requiring massive grind and ultimately spoiling the experience altogether. Well, no S#&$ all players care about is the rewards. When you undermine the experience of the core gameplay loop, what else is there to care about? This is an entirely self-inflicted injury because DE can't seem to accept that not all of the players want to do all of the things. If a new system isn't used by #*!%ING EVERYBODY, then it's a failure and changes must be done to FORCE everybody to use it on pain of missing out. Not everyone likes Fortuna, but everyone HAS to do Fortuna or miss out on most of 2018's content. Not everyone likes Disruption, but everyone HAS to play it or miss out on a lot of 2019s content. The list goes on. Why can't we just make fun content and be content that the people who find it fun end up playing it?

I know it's not a trivial issue to solve, but it seems like DE have altogether given up on creating compelling content, and resolved to release naked grinds instead.

 

8 hours ago, BloodRavenCap said:

Really liked Steel_Rook's story. It really feels like the whole update was a last minute thing as to answer the release of Destiny 2 in Steam. They've been concentrating all their efforts on Empyrean, but when they realized they couldn't deliver it in time, they've decided to rip out the system from the update and make it work as a separate thing. 

This rings true to me, yes. As I looked through The Old Blood patch notes and those of the following hotfix, I couldn't get that story out of my head because the sense of deja vu was overwhelming. This really does feel like DE had to scrap something big, cobble together whatever they had finished from it and pretend to launch that hodgepodge as a brand new feature. And the sad reality is that this has more than likely meant a S#&$-ton of overtime for already overworked developers, because that's how these sorts of things always work. It feels like Digital Extremes' version of "BioWare Magic" and all the mismanagement associated with it. It feels like studio heads promising the moon without having a cohesive plan of what that "moon" will even end up looking like, putting a lot of effort into scrapped work, missing a lot of deadlines and eventually just releasing whatever they had ready. And then it's the community mods and the programmers and artists who end up taking the heat for it.

As ended up happing with my story, I'm still willing to work with DE, buy their products and play their game... But I no longer believe their best intentions or their good faith. Maybe that's just me, maybe I'm being too bitter, but I don't see that trust being repaired. I was willing to cut them some slack that they're really trying to make a good game and just honestly failing. I'm now far more willing to file them off in the same category as EA and UbiSoft. Never take anything on face value, always be sceptical, always expect a twist.

[Colyeses]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

Sure, I wouldn't have been happy to be told "Sorry, we screwed up. No new content until 2020." but I could have accepted it.

Probably one of the worst parts is that there was content. Three entirely new weapons, 9 affixed weapons that we haven't seen in ages, a new Warframe and two reworks. But all of that content is now overshadowed by the colossal failures of the Lich system. If this patch had launched -without- the liches, it'd have been okay. It'd be light on content, but what would be there would be decent to good. I loved the Vauban rework for example, I was absolutely astonished that I was playing him and enjoying myself!

And then I tried a lich against my better judgement and due to RNG I am now stuck with an unkillable, OHKOing monstrosity that just made me uninstall the game. The entirety of the patch became a very hard negative purely because the lich system is so poorly designed and constructed. 

With all the surrounding info, it's pretty clear that the lich system was broken off of Empyrean, because Empyrean is suffering gigantic delays. Problem is that the lich system was -also- not ready for shipping, and it went in anyway, likely without any playtesting. After all, right after the Empyrean demo at Tennocon, Playstation tweeted out that Empyrean would be the next big content drop. And the liches were clearly interwoven with it.

This just got rushed out to quell concerns with content drought. But it was like trying to fix a wound with battery acid.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Assuming the early descriptions of the system were in-line with the design intent of the Nemesis system:

My assessment of the current Lich system is that it didn't meet the intent.

* It doesn't create a long-term nemesis, necessarily (although, early victims of getting liches before it was a choice, getting their parazon mods may still be dealing with their first Lich), necessarily. In fact, people take them out in 4hrs. The whole system is designed around killing them off quickly to iterate on the weapons they drop as many times as possible to get the top tier rolls on their bonuses. They're disposable bosses that kinda sorta take on features based on the player's warframe and the planet the were created on (and possibly other factors not yet revealed/figured out). They're extreme nuisances that goad you into taking them out as fast as possible, stealing your drops, taking over nodes, and making themselves the entire focus of your game time until they're gone.

* They level up when they kill you... at least, that's how the game presents it (technically, you defeat them in combat, and then fail to totally kill them if you try early, until you know their kill code) instead of when you kill them. They only really die once in the game, when you stab them with the correct code. It doesn't match up with the lore and calling them Liches. The in-game system surrounding their encounters feels bad, and not like "power inversion" bad... you defeat them, and then lose anyway, without the full code - and you losing means you die? at the hands of an incapacitated, near-dead enemy? AND they get stronger. AND they gain more influence. AND they steal more from you. AND other players want you to die to your Lich when yours spawns before theirs, so they get a chance to die to their Lich even if you want to avoid those penalties (as any reasonable person would).

~*~

Their deaths should be climactic, as in the Tennocon demo, on their capital ship. And the reason for the battle should be more of a "start over" to see a different Lich's personality or change some other facet of the system that can only be changed by having a new Nemesis - like switching between Grineer and Corpus Nemesis'. If our goal is always to kill our Lich for what they drop, of course, we'll try to get to that point ASAP. That shouldn't be the goal... the rewards should be along the way, dealing with our Nemesis and succeeding along the way - to keep them as a "long term Nemesis."

That means, we interfere with their goals and they try to stop us. We could raid their supply lines, their treasure ships (letting us get back the stuff they steal), their research bases where they're experimenting with infusing Kuva into weapons (where we'd get chances at the Kuva Weapons, instead of only upon killing the Nemesis), interrupt their communications, kill their high ranking officers, destroy their equipment, sabotage their plans. While we're doing all that, they appear from time to time to try to stop us. They lead a raiding party to try to stop us from completing our objective. These objectives could appear as "alerts" with the old Alerts reward table. Succeeding in these alerts would reduce the Nemesis' influence over the system. Killing the Nemesis when he appears would give him some experience, but not be an automatic levelup. (I'd add more levels to make this even more granular and more of a lasting system.)

They level up too fast. This penalizes newer players who may have just completed the War Within, and create a Lich as soon as possible (as players will do, and already did when it wasn't optional) They will not have all the mods they need, and they will level up their Lich to the point where they can't deal with them... and the Lich's influence will grow, and their nodes will be covered in high level encounters, or their resources will be stolen (and at that point in the game, the resources really do amount to something players need.) It's only really good if players WANT higher level starting enemies in a wide variety of mission nodes. That's about the only good thing I can think that comes from leveling up a Lich, and it's niche.

There should be good reason to level them up. Maybe higher level Nemesis will have better treasure ships, higher stats on their weapons, and benefits once we convert them into allies.

Murmur hunting becomes less of a focus in this re-focus of the system... and more of a thing that will happen regardless, over time, as you're dealing with your Nemesis - not the primary fuel for why you're engaging with the Old Blood content.

And when you finally do want to face off against your Nemesis (maybe you just want a low level one again), you go assault their home base (be it a capital ship like the demo, or some other place.) and wipe them out. No RNG, waiting for them to attack you randomly in a mission, where you could be blocked from your objective if the game decides to spawn someone else's lich instead (and they want to keep their Lich around, just low level.)

 

I mean, there's plenty of potential in this system, and plenty of ways to keep it from being annoying... (I get annoying was one of the goals, to goad people into fighting their liches, hating that their stuff gets stolen, etc... but that's horribad, IMO... as I've said in other posts... I avoid games where open world free-for-all PK is allowed, because it leads to griefing and people's stuff being stolen, and overall just a bad experience... and this is the NPC version of PK ganking.)

 

[Endorphinz]

I definitely agree that it needs some changing, but not be removed entirely. It has a lot of fun potential but in the end it comes down to a boring grind, bopping slightly upgraded enemies and grinding mod cards.

[MirageKnight]

2 hours ago, Endorphinz said:

grinding mod cards

Those make me think of "Card Captor Sakura" for some reason. All we need now are Poke balls and we're almost good to go as far as covering Japanese memes are concerned.

 

Well, there's an update today. Let's see if the duped weapon issue has been reasonably resolved although even if it has, it's pretty clear they want us to grind through Liches no matter what.

Despite what they've "tweaked", As long as being able opt out via a "peace offering" isn't an option, and "press x to die even though you won", Lich allies being largely useless, and massive grind are still things, I'm not touching the Lich Nemesis system again with an Iron Staff slotted with maxed Primed Reach.

 

 

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

Those make me think of "Card Captor Sakura" for some reason. All we need now are Poke balls and we're almost good to go as far as covering Japanese memes are concerned.

 

Well, there's an update today. Let's see if the duped weapon issue has been reasonably resolved although even if it has, it's pretty clear they want us to grind through Liches no matter what.

Despite what they've "tweaked", As long as being able opt out via a "peace offering" isn't an option, and "press x to die even though you won", Lich allies being largely useless, and massive grind are still things, I'm not touching the Lich Nemesis system again with an Iron Staff slotted with maxed Primed Reach.

 

 

only parts of this hotfix i find good are the parts to melee and the bug fixes. the lich stuff is just avoidance. i completely agree with what you said "it's pretty clear they want us to grind through Liches no matter what."

introduce terrible grind, then introduce a bandaid rather than fix terrible grind.

[MirageKnight]

4 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

only parts of this hotfix i find good are the parts to melee and the bug fixes.

Agreed - bug fixes are always good. Melee is still a bit of a mixed bag imo.

6 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

introduce terrible grind, then introduce a bandaid rather than fix terrible grind.

I guess that's better than doubling down, eh?

[Tinklzs]

17 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Agreed - bug fixes are always good. Melee is still a bit of a mixed bag imo.

I guess that's better than doubling down, eh?

Wait until empyrean, that might just be their 'doubling down'. 

[EinheriarJudith]

26 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Agreed - bug fixes are always good. Melee is still a bit of a mixed bag imo.

I guess that's better than doubling down, eh?

believe me i cant even anymore. i havent done as much as others but what ive done has done me in lol.

[Tinklzs]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

believe me i cant even anymore. i havent done as much as others but what ive done has done me in lol.

Were these in groups with other players or all solo? No trading etc. 

 

Still trying to find someone with more than 2 lich kills who did it all 100% solo, including relics. 

[EinheriarJudith]

3 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

Were these in groups with other players or all solo? No trading etc. 

 

Still trying to find someone with more than 2 lich kills who did it all 100% solo, including relics. 

majority was not solo. just had it on public matchmaking.

[Tinklzs]

29 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

majority was not solo. just had it on public matchmaking.

Just confirming what I already suspected.

Takes far too long to get things setup when you're solo.

[Taiepii]

If we use the wrong setup of mod we should never get a KO from it. That is a little but big problem for me 

 

It feel very insulted. When as end game player I never go down even after doing a big boss eidolon. But die for such little attack. 

 

I don't feel as concerned as this post show. But a lot of point explained are correct

[Steel_Rook]

23 hours ago, Colyeses said:

Probably one of the worst parts is that there was content. Three entirely new weapons, 9 affixed weapons that we haven't seen in ages, a new Warframe and two reworks. But all of that content is now overshadowed by the colossal failures of the Lich system. If this patch had launched -without- the liches, it'd have been okay. It'd be light on content, but what would be there would be decent to good. I loved the Vauban rework for example, I was absolutely astonished that I was playing him and enjoying myself!

Hmm... That's actually a pretty good point. If you go down just the list of additions, there's quite a bit. Reworks aside, there's a new Warframe and a whole bunch of new weapons, some totally new and some versions of existing ones. That's a lot! Except Grendel is locked behind that stupid "Arbitrations + No Mods + Waste Key on Failire" missions and I simply don't care enough to bother while the Kuva Weapons are all gated behind what has to be the worst Fractal RNG grind I've seen in Warframe, at least in the time I've been here. There's content to be had, but the majority of it is locked behind grind that's simply not fun to play through. The Old Blood is like a metaphor for all of Warframe: It's a fine game with a wealth of content, ruined by grind and monetisation. And it really breaks my heart to say this, because that puts Warframe in the same category in my mind as the likes of World of Tanks. That's not good company to keep.

But to your broader point - yes. Even without the new rewards being locked behind a massive grindwall (which finally made me relent and pay to make it go away, by trading for Requiem mods), the system itself is so unfinished, so clumsy and so obviously slapped together from whatever bits they had made for Empyrean within the few weeks since they seem to have decided to delay that... That it really does spoil the experience all on its own. This seriously feels like we got a bit of Fallout 76 into Warframe. Major promises which turn out to be underwhelming, unfinished, broken and yet still somehow heavily monetised. Even if the system didn't gate so much content, DE's approach to it would have still spoiled the experience for me. To a lesser extent, granted, as it wouldn't have spoiled the gameplay side of it... But the frankly dishonest intent behind it would still have annoyed me.

I should have known to be worried when DE started talking about "extrinsic rewards" and "sustainable rewards" and subtly easing us into the realisation that Warframe is a Chinese mobile gatcha game now, but I guess I hadn't experienced THAT side of MMOs before. I'd seen games with rentals and consumables and upkeep before, but I hadn't seen a game go from not having any of those to introducing basically all of them all at once. Then again... Warframe's always had those to SOME extent, but I guess they were insignificant enough to not matter too much. There's the Ambulas and Kayla de Dayum, there's the Void Relics system, apparently there are the Void Derelict Keys, etc... But this? This is all of those minor niggles magnified and put up-front ahead of not just the whole event but the whole game's design philosophy moving forward... And that's genuinely frightening.

 

20 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

* It doesn't create a long-term nemesis, necessarily (although, early victims of getting liches before it was a choice, getting their parazon mods may still be dealing with their first Lich), necessarily. In fact, people take them out in 4hrs. The whole system is designed around killing them off quickly to iterate on the weapons they drop as many times as possible to get the top tier rolls on their bonuses. They're disposable bosses that kinda sorta take on features based on the player's warframe and the planet the were created on (and possibly other factors not yet revealed/figured out). They're extreme nuisances that goad you into taking them out as fast as possible, stealing your drops, taking over nodes, and making themselves the entire focus of your game time until they're gone.

This right here tells you that what we got are the leftovers of something they scrapped. Liches were supposed to be our personal Nemesis, someone who hounds, someone whose name we learn and remember long-term. What we got was The Wolf of Saturn Six, except I can't kill him until the game allows me to. I'm one of the apparently few people who didn't rush to grind through 17 Liches in couple of weeks since the system launches so I'm still dealing with Ass Gatobo or whatever his name is. I did everything I could to make that Lich into a memorable experience, and yet I can still remember neither his name nor any of his powers, and the only time I really care to deal with him is when I set my mind to specifically deal with him. Hell, I have fonder memories of the randomly-generated soldiers I played with in XCOM 2, including the semi-random one by the name of Jane Kelly.

When you go up and down the Kuva Lich "system," you realise it's not actually a system at all. It's a grab bag of existing systems thrown together to give the impression of a boss fight. Now, I'm usually the first person to defend recycled content and systems. I defended the new Payday 2 heist despite it being sewn together from pieces of old heists. The Kuva Lich system, however, doesn't really reassemble these old systems in a unique way or foster unique gameplay. You're still running missions, killing Eximus units, grinding Relics and eventually shooting the Wolf of Saturn Six. The guessing system could have been interesting... But it isn't. The Lich could have had an Assassination mission, but it doesn't. We could have had mission types unique to Liches (sabotaging their equipment, breaking their supplies, stealing from them, etc.) but we don't. The Kuva Lich "system" is the minimum viable product needed to claim a new system release... Which would be fine if it weren't also hideously, punishingly grindy on top of being obviously unfinished.

I honestly don't know what form a proper "nemesis" system could take. Shadow of Mordor had similar issues, where a design flaw let me execute the Orcs by beheading them, which meant none of mine ever came back. Champions Online tried a system for designing your own Archnemesis, but I don't know how that turned out. In fact, I might be open to a system where a Lich-like enemy follows me around permanently, as in forever until the game shuts down. Throw in some customisation, make it somehow optional and you have the potential of creating a permanent aspect of our own characters design. I mean, that's what "Hey Kiddo" basically is! There are so many options to go with on a system like that, but "grind Liches for duplicate weapons" was just about the least imaginative, lest interesting way to go about it.

[MirageKnight]

18 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

The Old Blood is like a metaphor for all of Warframe: It's a fine game with a wealth of content, ruined by grind and monetisation.

At least with Grendel, you can completely bypass said grind with plat. The same cannot be said for Kuva Weapons. You want any or all of them? You have no choice but to deal with the Lich nemesis system.

Oh you can spend 800+ plat for all that armor and some Requiem and Parazon mods, but you still have to create a Lich, grind for Murmurs and then repeatedly deal with your Lich until you get the right mod order. The only thing that's bypassed is grinding for Requiem Relics.

[MirageKnight]

I'd be interested in knowing if DE's "fix" for duplicate Kuva weapons actually works. 

In the meantime, it seems that players are still being jerks to each other because DE still insists that Liches be able to kill players for getting the wrong combination of Requiem mods.

"Dude, kill your Lich already."

"But I don't have all the mods and don't want it to level up."

"Stop being a selfish p***y and do it! You're holding up the queue!"

Does THIS sound familiar to any of you players? Does anyone enjoy being on the receiving end of this kind of pressure and abuse? In my case, I certainly didn't when it happened to me when I was dealing with my Lich - so I left the mission and reported the player.

DE, this BS needs to change and it needs to change now. Remove that stupid "feature" where Liches kill you and level up if you get the wrong mod order. Stop punishing players like this and stop helping perpetuate / encouraging toxic behavior in the community.

 

 

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

In the meantime, it seems that players are still being jerks to each other because DE still insists that Liches be able to kill players for getting the wrong combination of Requiem mods.

"Dude, kill your Lich already."

"But I don't have all the mods and don't want it to level up."

"Stop being a selfish p***y and do it! You're holding up the queue!"

Does THIS sound familiar to any of you players? Does anyone enjoy being on the receiving end of this kind of pressure and abuse? In my case, I certainly didn't when it happened to me when I was dealing with my Lich - so I left the mission and reported the player.

DE, this BS needs to change and it needs to change now. Remove that stupid "feature" where Liches kill you and level up if you get the wrong mod order. Stop punishing players like this and stop helping perpetuate / encouraging toxic behavior in the community.

Full agreement there.

In other news there is yet another thread on that exact topic in General Discussion and it is just a hellhole.

[MirageKnight]

59 minutes ago, Aldain said:

In other news there is yet another thread on that exact topic in General Discussion and it is just a hellhole.

I saw it...and immediately wanted to burn my clothes and scrub off the first layer of exposed skin afterwards. The amount of narrow-minded, self-righteous hate and toxicity in that thread was appalling and disgraceful.

Seriously, a moderator needs to go in there and purge it with a heavy flamethrower.

 

[Aldain]

26 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

I saw it...and immediately wanted to burn my clothes and scrub off the first layer of exposed skin afterwards. The amount of narrow-minded, self-righteous hate and toxicity in that thread was appalling and disgraceful.

Seriously, a moderator needs to go in there and purge it with a heavy flamethrower

Burning the threads won't solve the issue.

DE just needs to relent and make killing the Lich not a punishment, this isn't on the players to fix, despite some in that thread trying to enforce mob rule and justice by numbers, it is all on DE to remove the point of contention.

Sad thing is I flat out had somebody admit in that thread that the only reason why they like the auto-death is because other players don't like it.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

I'd be interested in knowing if DE's "fix" for duplicate Kuva weapons actually works.

it works in the sense you dont get a dupe of the weapon the previous lich spawned with but you still get dupes. i spawn another lich after the update, and it spawned with kuva tonkor (a weapon i already have. lower bonus to boot). it is the second dupe.

Edited November 15, 2019 by EinheriarJudith