Kuva weapons and getting to level 40

[Lazarow]

I saw peopel say that kuva weapons can be leveled to rank 40 when invested 5 forma in them, 5 forma per weapon is a hell of a lot like what have the people at DE been thinking and how did it pass thru qualaty assurance testing, we need 65 forma, 65! Thats a crazy ammount of forma and really not worth it but since they give mastery we are forced to do them to get them completed on out profiles. Okay so you may say this is a free to play game and you are right, but 65 forma for a free to play user take 65 day and 65 forma blueprint from relics, tehre is also a chance of forma form sortie but thats not reliable. So I suggest we to be bale to upgrade our kuva weapons with..well KUVA. Kuva is much more easy to farm and much more logical than forma. Im going to go a bit offtopic and mention the Paracesis which the first weapon to have rank 40 and that weapon to be up to rank 40 was acceptable as its a unique quest weapon and has a place in the lore I mean its an important weapon(or so it seems like it is) and has a great promise of power and uses forma to unlock its fullest power. While kuva weapons are kuva spiced weapons, so adding more kuva to them would make them more powerful, I feel like that is logical. So instead of 5 forma we pay 30k kuvai ntotal. When level 30 is reached we spice the weapon with 10k kuva and level it to rank 35, then when we reach rank 35 spice it with another 20k kuva to reach its limit. Now some may say that this is bad as they dont like kuva farming and would need 390k kuva which is a lot of runs, yes it is a lot of kuva but kuva can be farmed more than forma. Or if 30k is too much kuva lower it to 20 in total, 10k per first 'limit break' and 10k for the second one. I just think kuva weapons dont deserve 5 forma and forma is expensive and one would just waste forma for those weapons 200mastery points per forma which isnt really worth it. If that doesnt sound good then to reach level 40 on kuva weapons would need only 2 forma where a single forma gives 5 more ranks,

TL;DR 

Instead of 5 forma per weapon to level 40 my suggestion is one ofr these 3 options: 1)30k kuva 2)20k kuva 3)2 forma

Edited November 5, 2019 by Lazarow

[Melanholic7]

Stupid thing - there is no point in leveling them more than 30 except the MR....meh. THey could at least raise their stats each time

[Myscho]

I dont any see any reason why should have Kuva weapons this feature, when are just upgrades with zero bonus other than mastery points

Edited November 4, 2019 by Myscho

[Oreades]

My suggestion is that they go to 30, that's it you level them once and they're done. 

Any forma you choose to put into them after that are exactly that a choice. 

 

I find it very hypocritical and concerning that DE keeps nerfing things or structuring things in such a way that the "best/obvious" choices are removed (Weapon Exilus). Ostensibly because "it frees the players up to choose" but then they pull this nonsense and you don't get any choice if you want that MR you are investing 5 forma full stop. 

[LSG501]

Honestly this really screams as 'buy forma' addition to the game again... first the rework needing more than the 6 forma and kuva weapons needing a possibly unnecessary (unless you really want that weapon) 5 forma to get the full mr out of it.  I'm close to 100 'spare' forma but they wont last forever especially seeing as my relic rewards seem to 'miss' forma a lot more often than before imo.

Really is starting to feel that the entire kuva lich system is more about selling stuff and just massive amounts of grind over anything really worthwhile long term.

Edited November 4, 2019 by LSG501

[InFlames]

And what about those that already slammed their kuva variants with forma?
Just refund them and that's it as well? Need to think in the big picture and not on "me me me and me"

[Lazarow]

1 minute ago, Mr.Pava said:

And what about those that already slammed their kuva variants with forma?
Just refund them and that's it as well? Need to think in the big picture and not on "me me me and me"

Its not about me its about the majority of players and players to come to find this system enjoyable and not a pain. I would like if they would refund the forma but we got no refund for the arcanes when the changed. We know that DE have made some changes that people were unhappy about and got no refund, the game is bound to change so we cant really blame them with whatever the choose to do

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, Mr.Pava said:

And what about those that already slammed their kuva variants with forma?
Just refund them and that's it as well? Need to think in the big picture and not on "me me me and me"

If it prevents them from coming to the forums and whinging about how they actively participated and perpetuated a horrible system that was expunged from the game, then yeah refund them their forma. 

But if there is anything that displays the only thinking about "me me me and me" it's people who participate in broken design and then insist that it remain broken because they've already done it and to fix it would be a "slap in the face" to their efforts.

[InFlames]

yea i understand the point and why, but, and bare with me here. Bout what half the people really like these new variants, and half dont, because either they are not fun weapons for them, and for others they are amazing fun. so this brings us to a dillema where half of people want to invest into this bcos they can get some fun out of it and get a decent gun in the process. And the others are completely unwilling to do so, bcos they detest the guns and consider it a waste of time, in the end of the day probably nothing is gonna change.

Now idk how many people do like, and how many people don't. But i see both kind in my clan and alliance and in pub parties i do murmurs in. So form my end its kinda hard to say if anything should change at all.

[Lazarow]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Pava said:

yea i understand the point and why, but, and bare with me here. Bout what half the people really like these new variants, and half dont, because either they are not fun weapons for them, and for others they are amazing fun. so this brings us to a dillema where half of people want to invest into this bcos they can get some fun out of it and get a decent gun in the process. And the others are completely unwilling to do so, bcos they detest the guns and consider it a waste of time, in the end of the day probably nothing is gonna change.

Now idk how many people do like, and how many people don't. But i see both kind in my clan and alliance and in pub parties i do murmurs in. So form my end its kinda hard to say if anything should change at all.

Well you can freely invest forma to improve said weapons but they should not lock mastery behind it and force us to use forma, I understand your love for the weapons and while I may not share the same love for them the only problem I have is the investment of forma in them as forma is ment to be a resource used to improve weapons that the players pick on their own will, while in the current state the system forces the player to use 5 forma for the mastery progression regradless if the player putting the forma in the weapons is a fan of it or not

[Yasha-7HS]

Formas have never not been plentiful. If you feel "forced" to complete it just to make your MR rank go up when you don't need it at all, then that's truly a personal problem. 

While the idea that kuva weapons should probably have something to do with the kuva in the game to differentiate it from, I dunno, every other #*!%ing gun in the game, saying they shouldn't need any forma to get the max mastery affinity goes in direct contrast with how DE expects you to play this game: You play for a couple hours, maybe three or four a day. You're not meant to focus on killing Liches for an entire day. You're not meant to have every gun in less than sixty days. These guns, their bosses, are all meant to be long term commitments. 

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

saying they shouldn't need any forma to get the max mastery affinity goes in direct contrast with how DE expects you to play this game.

Yeah.....There are something like 300+ weapons that disagree with you. 

 

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, Mr.Pava said:

yea i understand the point and why, but, and bare with me here. Bout what half the people really like these new variants, and half dont, because either they are not fun weapons for them, and for others they are amazing fun. so this brings us to a dillema where half of people want to invest into this bcos they can get some fun out of it and get a decent gun in the process. And the others are completely unwilling to do so, bcos they detest the guns and consider it a waste of time, in the end of the day probably nothing is gonna change.
 

How about a 'simple' solution that can realistically keep both sides of the argument happy.... MR is only given up to rank 30, rank 40 is a 'bonus' for adding in all the forma and you essentially get extra capacity as a reward for doing so.  Those that like the weapon are likely to sink 5 forma into it to fit all the mods they want to run, those that only want it for the MR don't have to use up their forma. 

In all honesty though I'd rather not 'waste' 5 forma just to get the full mr out of a weapon, which in some cases might be little more than mr fodder... mind you I think there are bigger issues with the whole kuva lich system that could be improved first...

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

So far from what I gather, those that like their kuva weapons have great stats on them. Those that hate kuva weapon have poor stats on their. I was surprise DE allow us to gain mastery from the kuva weapons even though early on they said there would be no mastery. in any case it's not like tenno go about their ways to gain mastery. i mean just look at K Drives, how many players even have max rank K Drives?

[G.L.O.R.ious]

I've put 6 Forma on my Lanka and in the end I was happy with the result, it's was powerfull, easy to charge the shot and I didn't need a Riven to be one of the best but this level 40 weapons that are supose to be the "ultimate" choice to use are just awfull. Paracesis is a worst Gram Prime, Kuva Ogris is a worst Komorex and I almost sure that the Catchmoon outperform any Seer, Kraken or Brakk even after the nerf.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

2 hours ago, Lazarow said:

I saw peopel say that kuva weapons can be leveled to rank 40 when invested 5 forma in them, 5 forma per weapon is a hell of a lot like what have the people at DE been thinking and how did it pass thru qualaty assurance testing, we need 65 forma, 65!

At the same time you have to do a ton of Kuva floods, constantly kill minions to get the Requiem mods, try a few times to find the order and finally get the Lich killed.

This is DE's idea of an endgame - they could either make it genuinely difficult or they can make it a grind, they went with the latter.

Crack a couple or relics, then always be building a forma, crack a few more relics when you run out of blueprints. It should not be hard to build 5 relics over the time it takes to kill a lich, especially as the chance of one having a new weapon that you actually want to level drops with each one.

Meanwhile Kuva is much more grindy - I can stack up forma BP and build them in the background, I can even use the app on holiday, while Kuva drips from a few missions types at the rate of about 1 riven roll per 20 mins. Do I want a weapon to take 2 hours worth of Kuva Survival or an extra 5 mins relic and a background wait? I'll take the forma. 

I think the requiem mods will be where all the pain is, because they burn up after 3 uses, but you can only get around 2 requiem relics a day and there's only about a ⅓ chance of getting any requiem mod, never mind the ones you actually need.

[G.L.O.R.ious]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Meanwhile Kuva is much more grindy - I can stack up forma BP and build them in the background, I can even use the app on holiday, while Kuva drips from a few missions types at the rate of about 1 riven roll per 20 mins. Do I want a weapon to take 2 hours worth of Kuva Survival or an extra 5 mins relic and a background wait? I'll take the forma.

Each Forma takes 24 hours to build, assuming that you won't waste a second, 5 Forma take 5 days, each Kuva weapon takes 5 it, did you see the problem? It's seems easier to use Forma, but it's a ilusion.

I use at least 4 Forma in each weapon to test it but I only can do it with Platinum, because is the only way to surpass the 24 hours time gate.

Requiring 5 forma is not healthy for the F2Player and putting players away from the game by predatorie monetisation is everthing that Warframe dosen't need.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

2 minutes ago, G.L.O.R.ious said:

Each Forma takes 24 hours to build, assuming that you won't waste a second

Yes

2 minutes ago, G.L.O.R.ious said:

5 Forma take 5 days

5 real days, but only about 20 mins play time.

4 minutes ago, G.L.O.R.ious said:

It's seems easier to use Forma, but it's a ilusion

Nope, it is easier to use forma. It's just slower overall.

The 50k Kuva is about 4 hours of Kuva Survival, I get around an hour to play most days, so that probably ends up the same actual real time for me (but if I play nothing but Kuva Survival all week I'll get really bored).

If you want your weapon today and you have 4 hours free to play today then Kuva is probably better.

Unless you've built a forma every day (which you can totally do, just in the background, while levelling gear, killing Orb Mother's/Eidolons, completing Nightwave, whatever). Trust me on this, get in to the habit of doing that and you'll always have surplus forma.

12 minutes ago, G.L.O.R.ious said:

Requiring 5 forma is not healthy for the F2Player and putting players away from the game by predatorie monetisation is everthing that Warframe dosen't need.

OK, while DE loves their F2P players, that isn't what pays the bills. They need players to pay, and mostly do a pretty good job of getting the balance right on this. I think the 800-odd plat for the requiem starter pack is a mess, but forma? That's about right.

[G.L.O.R.ious]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

OK, while DE loves their F2P players, that isn't what pays the bills. They need players to pay, and mostly do a pretty good job of getting the balance right on this. I think the 800-odd plat for the requiem starter pack is a mess, but forma? That's about right.

F2Players are what makes the comunity and the game alive. My clan started with me and another 6 people, I spend more money on the game, giving skins, slots and boosts to them than now that I play alone, I'm alredy a MR26, I alredy have every single Frame, what I gonna buy? And I can't talk to my friends to come back just to spend days farming the Kuva Lich and after that to waste 5 forma in weapons that aren't even good.

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

OK, while DE loves their F2P players, that isn't what pays the bills. They need players to pay, and mostly do a pretty good job of getting the balance right on this. I think the 800-odd plat for the requiem starter pack is a mess, but forma? That's about right.

Devils advocate here... maybe if DE managed to keep their 'release schedules' they wouldn't need to put in such an excessive and artificial grind to drive plat sales through things like forma and the requiem relics/mods....

Most players (at least that I know in game) are more willing to pay into the game because they enjoy it and want to support the dev's, not because they've been forced into 'buying' plat to progress at a 'fair' rate....

[Hawk197]

Remember, Paracesis has this function too. But at least that weapon had a reason to put 5 Forma in it, namely the innate bonus against Sentients per rank. I feel like these Kuva weapons should have a bonus similarly. Maybe each rank will allow it to deal more damage against Grineer enemies, or at least against the Kuva based variants? What DE seemed to forget is that for each rank gear get, the gear gets 1 to 2 capacity, At 5 Forma, with maxed out Prime mods, a maxed out Riven, an Exilus, and 5 blank slots, my Tonkor has 3 capacity left over, which may not sound like a lot, but I could easily replace both 90% elementals with the 60% versions to save 8 capacity.

[DarthIronclad]

or at least make it having the weapon at level 30+ have a bonus damage to grineer,or/and make it so that you can charge murmurs faster if you have kuva weapons equipped...

[vomder]

Don't forget the RNG stats of these weapons too, which is another way this increase in grind is bad too. If you want the best weapon.

[schilds]

2 hours ago, vomder said:

Don't forget the RNG stats of these weapons too, which is another way this increase in grind is bad too. If you want the best weapon.

Yep, huge grind to get the weapons, in missions that you don't get normal rewards from, coupled with random stats, coupled with spending forma and 6x the time of a normal weapon just to max them out? Already knowing that your weapon is an inferior version?

Sure, there are other games with weapons with random stats behind a huge grindwall, but you just equip them, use them, and replace them when a better version comes along.You can't do that with these weapons.

 

 

[AriaSTG]

Ah yes, a Kuva weapons feedback, Just what I have been looking for.

I started to see why this kind of "specialised" weapons problem have some quite of an issues. Having a 80/80 mod capacity is kind of redundant for a weapon that has most of the mandatory mods installed and forma-ed, sure players can have the freedom to fit anything on that particular slots with anything now. I know I do not have some insight on what weapons should be better for all since, everyone has their own preferences. I suggest it be better if the maxing this particular weapon straight up to 40 without spending any forma. As for the ones that already spend their forma? refund or not refund? I believe that is DE choice to make, which reminds me of that Tonkor.

Thats it, just a thing i need to get it out of my head.